4 ms·

Berlin is a hotbed of entrepreneurialism and creativity. Movie making, web 2.0 stuff, they have it all. It's a fun, cheap party. Smart people are moving there,

Berlin is a hotbed of entrepreneurialism and creativity. Movie making, web 2.0 stuff, they have it all. It's a fun, cheap party. Smart people are moving there, and successful people stay. Prenzlauerberg has the highest fertility rate not ony for germany, but all of continental europe. Germany'll be doing fine long after foreignpolicy.com's idiot anglo american backers slide into a quagmire of expensive energy, stupid land use, collapsing national currency, and corrupt warmongering.

lupin_sansei 19y ago
I wouldn't call 11.7% unemployment doing fine: http://www.heritage.org/index/country.cfm?id=Germany http://www.heritage.org/index/country.cfm?id=Germany
- mdemare 19y ago
  Why not? The unemployed are on generous welfare. If all employees are equal, that means that Germany is running on 88.3% productivity, vs 95% in the U.S. Not a big difference. But since the people who tend to be unemployed are generally much less productive than people with jobs, the actual difference in productivity is much smaller. Really, Germany is doing just fine. Which is not to say that they couldn't be doing even better.
  - lupin_sansei 19y ago
    They might be on generous welfare, but it's not free - it comes from other German people's taxes including poor Germans. Plus you tend to be poor on welfare even in Germany. Why is it okay to have 11.7% of the population be impoverished and idle? While the UK, Australia and the US have 5% or less unemployment?
    - bocajuniors 19y ago
      do you really believe that germany has a higher percentage of impoverished people than the us?i would think the lowest american salaries are lower than german welfare
      - llimllib 19y ago
        Should be easy to figure out, but a quick google was unable to turn up an average welfare recipients' salary. In the us, 5.85 * 40 * 52 = $12,168 annually. Figure 30% taxes, and you're at $8517 annually. Who has better knowledge and/or google-fu to dig up what an average german welfare recipient makes per year? (Also, most states have a higher minimum wage than 5.85: http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm . Also, the Euro/US exchange rate doesn't really express living costs. Perhaps we should measure salary in terms of milk or bread for a more fair comparison?)
        tphyahoo 19y ago
        salary is only the supply side of the equation. what about cost of living? germans living in the city don't need a car. they have health care. even if they are unemployed layabouts, their kids have a chance for a subsidized education, and they don't have to balance the opportunity cost against a crapload of debt.
        llimllib 19y ago
        Americans living in the city don't need a car. They have health care (Check it: http://www.ncdhhs.gov/dma/basicmedelig.pdf http://www.ncdhhs.gov/dma/basicmedelig.pdf if you make <$12000 per year, you're in Medicaid on top of Medicare. Furthermore emergency medicine is always free.) Their kids have a chance for a subsidized education (public school is always free, many colleges offer ridiculous amounts of aid as well as work opportunities to students from very poor families. I know mine was very good with this.) (Not that I'm saying our medicare/medicaid/emergency system isn't somewhat broken. For example, many people who qualify have not filled out the necessary paperwork to join. The problem with lack of medical coverage, though, is much less with the indigent than it is with those just over the poverty line.)
        tphyahoo 19y ago
        You're right in a way, at least regarding education. If you're very poor, but smart, america probably offers more opportunities than most euro places. Elite Unis heavily subsidize in this case. The more common case though, is somewhat poor (single mom, 3 siblings, $40,000 a year), and somewhat smart but not national merit level. Many people in this situation seem to wind up getting aid packages with low interest, but huge principal, managing to get their degree but graduating with a lot of debt. This may be changing with even the shift to free tuition by some elite unis, but haven't seen really big changes yet. In your last sentence, you seem to make the same point, only for med care rather than education. So perhaps we agree that the american system is harshest on people who are poor but not "poverty level." That is a bad way to be though. Because what happens when you are poverety level, and work your ass off to get up to the "just poor" level? You lose all that subsidy! And back to poverty level, for many.
    - mdemare 19y ago
      Germany also has high unemployment because of the reunification, so it would be much harder to go down to 5%. Anyway, of course 5% unemployment is better than 12%. On the other hand, Germans have less to fear from unemployment. Not only are they much harder to fire, but the unemployed are better off in Germany, and don't have to worry about losing health insurance. So Germans have more peace of mind than Americans. This comes with a hefty price tag, of course. So it's a trade-off. My point was: Germany is doing just fine, in its own way, and there is even a start-up scene in Berlin.
    - jws 19y ago
      US unemployment figures do not capture all of the unemployed. A more comparable figure to the German number might be 8% if you count people who have given up on job searching and don't get counted in the official statistics. To make a full comparison you might also want to look at the number of people working part time jobs that really want to be working full time. Our laws encourage employers to split some kinds of work among part time employees rather than hire full time employees. The economy still has just as many unemployed man hours, but they don't show up in the statistics because each individual is employed. (I don't know if German law encourages this.) Germany is in a bad spot for unemployment, but suggesting it is more than twice the US with those statistics is not accurate.

lupin_sansei 19y ago

I wouldn't call 11.7% unemployment doing fine: http://www.heritage.org/index/country.cfm?id=Germany http://www.heritage.org/index/country.cfm?id=Germany

mdemare 19y ago
Why not? The unemployed are on generous welfare. If all employees are equal, that means that Germany is running on 88.3% productivity, vs 95% in the U.S. Not a big difference. But since the people who tend to be unemployed are generally much less productive than people with jobs, the actual difference in productivity is much smaller. Really, Germany is doing just fine. Which is not to say that they couldn't be doing even better.
- lupin_sansei 19y ago
  They might be on generous welfare, but it's not free - it comes from other German people's taxes including poor Germans. Plus you tend to be poor on welfare even in Germany. Why is it okay to have 11.7% of the population be impoverished and idle? While the UK, Australia and the US have 5% or less unemployment?
  - bocajuniors 19y ago
    do you really believe that germany has a higher percentage of impoverished people than the us?i would think the lowest american salaries are lower than german welfare
    - llimllib 19y ago
      Should be easy to figure out, but a quick google was unable to turn up an average welfare recipients' salary. In the us, 5.85 * 40 * 52 = $12,168 annually. Figure 30% taxes, and you're at $8517 annually. Who has better knowledge and/or google-fu to dig up what an average german welfare recipient makes per year? (Also, most states have a higher minimum wage than 5.85: http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm . Also, the Euro/US exchange rate doesn't really express living costs. Perhaps we should measure salary in terms of milk or bread for a more fair comparison?)
      - tphyahoo 19y ago
        salary is only the supply side of the equation. what about cost of living? germans living in the city don't need a car. they have health care. even if they are unemployed layabouts, their kids have a chance for a subsidized education, and they don't have to balance the opportunity cost against a crapload of debt.
        llimllib 19y ago
        Americans living in the city don't need a car. They have health care (Check it: http://www.ncdhhs.gov/dma/basicmedelig.pdf http://www.ncdhhs.gov/dma/basicmedelig.pdf if you make <$12000 per year, you're in Medicaid on top of Medicare. Furthermore emergency medicine is always free.) Their kids have a chance for a subsidized education (public school is always free, many colleges offer ridiculous amounts of aid as well as work opportunities to students from very poor families. I know mine was very good with this.) (Not that I'm saying our medicare/medicaid/emergency system isn't somewhat broken. For example, many people who qualify have not filled out the necessary paperwork to join. The problem with lack of medical coverage, though, is much less with the indigent than it is with those just over the poverty line.)
        tphyahoo 19y ago
        You're right in a way, at least regarding education. If you're very poor, but smart, america probably offers more opportunities than most euro places. Elite Unis heavily subsidize in this case. The more common case though, is somewhat poor (single mom, 3 siblings, $40,000 a year), and somewhat smart but not national merit level. Many people in this situation seem to wind up getting aid packages with low interest, but huge principal, managing to get their degree but graduating with a lot of debt. This may be changing with even the shift to free tuition by some elite unis, but haven't seen really big changes yet. In your last sentence, you seem to make the same point, only for med care rather than education. So perhaps we agree that the american system is harshest on people who are poor but not "poverty level." That is a bad way to be though. Because what happens when you are poverety level, and work your ass off to get up to the "just poor" level? You lose all that subsidy! And back to poverty level, for many.
  - mdemare 19y ago
    Germany also has high unemployment because of the reunification, so it would be much harder to go down to 5%. Anyway, of course 5% unemployment is better than 12%. On the other hand, Germans have less to fear from unemployment. Not only are they much harder to fire, but the unemployed are better off in Germany, and don't have to worry about losing health insurance. So Germans have more peace of mind than Americans. This comes with a hefty price tag, of course. So it's a trade-off. My point was: Germany is doing just fine, in its own way, and there is even a start-up scene in Berlin.
  - jws 19y ago
    US unemployment figures do not capture all of the unemployed. A more comparable figure to the German number might be 8% if you count people who have given up on job searching and don't get counted in the official statistics. To make a full comparison you might also want to look at the number of people working part time jobs that really want to be working full time. Our laws encourage employers to split some kinds of work among part time employees rather than hire full time employees. The economy still has just as many unemployed man hours, but they don't show up in the statistics because each individual is employed. (I don't know if German law encourages this.) Germany is in a bad spot for unemployment, but suggesting it is more than twice the US with those statistics is not accurate.