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Stuck between a rock and a hard placem: An explanation of Apple’s new MBP

52 points by clumsysmurf 10y ago

boundlessdreamz 10y ago
The article gets some stuff wrong. 1. Though macbook pro battery capacity has been reduced to 76Wh, he still attributes not adding more RAM to 100Wh ceiling by FAA 2. States that only laptops with 32GB is as heavy as 17 pounds and bulky. But Dell XPS 15 comes with 32 GB and weighs only 4.5 pounds. https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Dell-XPS-15-9550-Signature-Edition-Laptop/productID.326871600 https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Dell-XP... 3. Dell XPS 15 comes with 1 USB-C, 2 USB-3.0 ports, HDMI and SD card reader and thus don't need dongles and is reasonably slim. Seriously, if Apple had released something like XPS-15 in features, there would have been no criticism.
- erebrus 10y ago
  1. I believe you got the first point wrong. The claim is that they needed more than 100W to go to 32GB, and not going for 16GB, they didn't need the extra 26W. 2. You are partially right. Yes, 4.5 pounds is very different from 18kg, but if you care about portability, it is still a big different from 3 pounds. 3. The argument he presents is that you need dongles for now, but in the long term, you will need less dongles. So a bit different from what you are arguing.
  - jbmorgado 10y ago
    Doubling the RAM, increases the energy consumption of the equipment, but it obviously doesn't double the energy consumption of the equipment.
    - erebrus 10y ago
      Sure. I'm not in position to say whether the claim that the RAM increase would require more than 26W. I'm just arguing that the previous comment was missing the point of what the article was claiming.
      - boundlessdreamz 10y ago
        I'm not missing the point. The author is purely speculating and has no data to backup his claims. Also RAM does not use much power. See here - http://www.buildcomputers.net/power-consumption-of-pc-components.html http://www.buildcomputers.net/power-consumption-of-pc-compon... This is very old data. Newer RAM will use even less
  - kbutler 10y ago
    4.4 _pounds_ for xps 15 vs the macbook's 4.02 pounds (15" version). (and if you want a smaller battery for portability on the xps 15, you can get one at 3.9 pounds) Looks like the article author was either blinded by fandom or intentionally misleading. https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/ (choose 15") http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productdetails/xps-15-9550-laptop http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productdetails/xps-15-9550-la...
    - erebrus 10y ago
      I will be suspicious of any opinion in a website with the word mac or apple in it's url. First, the mbp is 3 pounds (from your own link). Second, I looked up the xps 15 also. Not only it is 50% heavier, but it is also much thicker and in bigger in general. Finally, battery life seems to be 5h vs 10h of the mbp. These are different compromises that will please different people and not be acceptable for others.
      - detaro 10y ago
        The 13" is 3 pounds. The 15" is 4, kbutler even reminded you to look at the right one.
      - boundlessdreamz 10y ago
        Check the link. The MBP 15" is 4.02 pounds. 13" is 3.02 pounds. Also the dimensions are roughly the same +-----------+------------------+--------------------+ | Dimension | MBP 15" | XPS 15" | +-----------+------------------+--------------------+ | Height | 0.61" | 0.45-0.66" | | Width | 13.75" | 14.06" | | Depth | 9.48" | 9.27" | | Weight | 4.02 lbs/1.83 kg | 4.50 lbs (2.04 kg) | +-----------+------------------+--------------------+ And the battery life is 7 hours for the 84Whr model. http://www.anandtech.com/show/10116/the-dell-xps-15-9550-review/7 http://www.anandtech.com/show/10116/the-dell-xps-15-9550-rev... In another review it was 8 hours for playing video. Less than MBP at 10 hrs.
      - kbutler 10y ago
        You forgot the "choose 15 inch" on the apple site: MBP13: 3.02 pounds (1.37 kg) MBP15: 4.02 pounds (1.83 kg) XPS15: 4.4 pounds (or 3.9 pounds with smaller battery) MBP15: 15.5mm 349.3mm 240.7mm XPS15: 17mm 357mm 235mm But I agree - if you're wanting maximum portability, go with the smaller 13" device, which is 33% lighter. But then you may want to compare the XPS13, which is smaller, lighter, newer CPU, has a larger battery (dell mentions 18h, reviewers tested 10h+, but actual battery life comparisons TBD), and is also limited to 16gb. Yes, different compromises.
- throwaway1X2 10y ago
  > 2. States that only laptops with 32GB is as heavy as 17 pounds and bulky. But Dell XPS 15 comes with 32 GB and weighs only 4.5 pounds. That point blew my mind, too. I have 32 GB RAM in a 6 pound laptop (a third of that 8 kg beast presented by the author)... and it's from 2011! If somebody rewrite some BIOS parts, it would even take 64 GB (4x16 GB modules). Yes, not many laptops have four slots, and certainly not the ultrathin ones, but even with two slots, 32 GB is easily possible as 2x16 GB (available both in DDR3 and DDR4) and no 17 pound gaming monster is needed at all. The battery capacity also seems moot. More memory modules draw more power, that is sure, but in terms of laptops with 74 Wh batteries, it is a negligible decrease of battery life, especially if people who need and would order 32 GB RAM would easily sacrifice some battery life (at load) if they can get more of their work done significantly faster without swapping. Also, does the new MacBook Pro actually use only a single module? Because you get the power consumption increases when you add modules. If it internally uses two modules of 8 GB to get 16 GB, then using two 16 GB modules instead would use the same power, unless I'm missing something (the memory is soldered on, so the entire thing may work differently than typical SO-DIMMs).
0n34n7 10y ago
At the end if the day, people are expecting too much from a slab of aluminum. If Apple also announced 64Gb RAM iMacs with all the bells and whistles, perhaps the MacBook Pro backlash would have been less. I for one will be getting the new MBP. I love MacOS. I love the multi touch pad. I love the vibrant screen. If I want to train a neural net, I spin up my Core i7 leaf blower next to my desk and drink coffee at home.
- mangeletti 10y ago
  I'm a Python developer, and I've been worried about upgrading to MacOS Sierra, after hearing a few anecdotes about bugs, etc. Are you a coder, and have you noticed any things that you wish they'd fix; things that hamper you as a coder? I love El Capitan, esp how they've finally absolutely perfected full screen mode / swipe to switch, half-screen, etc. at this point. Is that all still great?
  - danpalmer 10y ago
    I use macOS Sierra on my old Macbook Pro and I've had no Python development issues. I'm using a fairly standard setup with Python versions from Homebrew and virtualenvs.
  - mu_killnine 10y ago
    I've been running Sierra for the last month or so and think it's on par with prior macOS releases. There's been no standout feature that's wowed me, but there haven't been outstanding bugs driving me crazy either. Since I don't use the new Siri integration, I couldn't tell you a single difference between this and El Cap (maybe dark mode?) I'm a .net developer running vs code and docker most of the time, for reference. I'm running on a late '13 rMBP.
  - rbanffy 10y ago
    Running Python and virtualenv, using Python 2.7 and 3.5 and Macports. No issues whatsoever.
  - guitarbill 10y ago
    I use the Homebrew Python2 and 3, and have had no issues. AFAIK not using the Apple Python helps. I actually jumped from Mountain Lion to Sierra and couldn't be happier software-wise.
danpalmer 10y ago
I'm glad someone is being a bit more positive about this. I was a little disappointed at first, but all of the compromises on this machine are fully explained by lead time, battery life and pushing industry standards forward. The first I can't control, the second I don't want to sacrifice, and the third I'm fully in support of. The only real issue for me with this laptop is the price increases in the UK. We're paying about $500 more at current conversion rates than the US price.
- deleted 10y ago
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- deleted 10y ago
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- nateberkopec 10y ago
  Apple's trying to limit it's currency downside risk. Clearly they think the pound has further to slide.
- soneil 10y ago
  You're a little off with the UK prices. The US price, pre-tax, for the base 15" model is $2399. At whatever Google thinks is the current exchange rate, that's £1948.43 GBP. Add 20% VAT and it's on the shelf at £2338.12. The UK price for this model is £10.88 more than the direct exchange rate.
  - danpalmer 10y ago
    You are correct, I was not accounting for VAT, I guess as the US price does _not_ include sales tax. Thanks!
    - soneil 10y ago
      They almost never do - US sales taxes vary by state, often city, and sometimes county. The combination of these is basically a list of tax by zipcode, so publishing them has more in common with calculating shipping than it does for us. I know it doesn't really help (I'm facing the same problem @ 21%!), but the current conversion is a lot fairer than they've been in the past.
phicoh 10y ago
What was the author smoking? "This is also why the only laptops currently available which support >16GB RAM are huge, like this one which weighs 17 pounds (8KG). " Except that ThinkPad T460 can be ordered with 32 GB memory and weights something like 3.8 lbs (1.7 kg) (of course the upside of the specs being essentially the same as the old one is that you can use the old MBP until USB-C is widespread enough to make it worth switching)
- mamp 10y ago
  I haven't been able to find out what the battery life is with 32 Gb, but the T460 is 40% thicker than the 13" MBP due to battery, it doesn't have a Retina display and it has a slower intel graphics. I don't think there is a conspiracy here. Intel couldn't deliver the processor to be low power and use 32Gb, Apple prioritised size. I'm not happy, but I'll wait to the next version for the price drop and 32Gb. The big mistake was raising the price. That is shitty.
- rbanffy 10y ago
  What is the battery life of the TP460?
  - phicoh 10y ago
    This page claims 17 hours (with the test described as "Laptop Mag Battery test, which involves continuous surfing over Wi-Fi at 100 nits of brightness") http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/lenovo-thinkpad-t460 http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/lenovo-thinkpad-t46...
  - dman 10y ago
    With the extended battery you easily get > 12 hours in real world usage.
- feelix 10y ago
  That comes with this CPU [1] which is not appropriate for the MBP http://ark.intel.com/products/88190 http://ark.intel.com/products/88190
asadkn 10y ago
Stop defending Apple using the RAM myths floating around. If Dell XPS 15 with 32GB DDR4 ram that's also thin and light can manage 5 hours battery life with a 56Whr battery, Windows, and HQ series intel processors, there's no reason Apple couldn't manage more. Also, the 1.2v SO-DIMM DDR4 ram vs 1.2v LPDDR3 they used have close power consumption.
- bitwize 10y ago
  Maybe 5h is enough for you, but Apple fans are used to a 10h minimum, likely more. And very thin hardware.
  - e40 10y ago
    Then go up to 99Wh, and stop with the "thin" thing. I have the 2014 MBP and it's plenty thin. No need at all to get thinner than that.
    - erebrus 10y ago
      So if it's thin enough for you, it's thin enough for everyone?! Really? People fail to understand that there are pro users with different needs...
      - e40 10y ago
        I didn't say that. They could make the 32GB version thicker.
      - maxerickson 10y ago
        You think 3 pounds + 16 GBs and as thin as possible is a much more common set of requirements than 4 pounds + 32 GBs and still really thin?
      - glenndebacker 10y ago
        I really would like to know what need you could have that is solved by making a laptop 3mm thinner. I personally think their whole obsession by making these laptops thin is contra productive if you think off al the things (non solderable RAM for example) we need to give up for it in return. Or maybe they should just give the user a choice.
amelius 10y ago
Meanwhile, Apple is vertically integrating the whole semiconductor industry for production of iPhones. If this continues, I'm guessing the price for non-Apple hardware will go up. What will this mean for general purpose computing?
kohanz 10y ago
> In the long term it’s doing the exact opposite: It’s finally setting USB-C/thunderbolt as the standard. It's not going to set a new standard if it doesn't sell.
- erebrus 10y ago
  Do you realistically think it won't sell? Between fanboys and those for which the portability (and usability of macos) beats the absolute top performance you could get...it will still sell enough.
  - kohanz 10y ago
    You may well be right. I guess we'll see how much of the MacBook Pro market is made up by actual professionals.
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kriro 10y ago
For me the GPU (even the 460) is the biggest disappointment. Doesn't look like it's good enough to support the VR hardware by Oculus or HTC. Maybe that was just a pipedream but I seem to recall Apple saying something along the lines of the next MBP will be "VR ready" I'll probably still get a 15" MBP as my development machine but I'm not pre-ordering as initially planned and waiting on some reviews first. Edit: I just remembered that the Razer Core external GPU adapter has USB-C so maybe getting one of these to get around this problem could be an option. A pricey option though.
kbutler 10y ago
My main skepticism on the touch bar is the fact that Apple is not making it a standard component across the board (ahem). When a user-interface device is non-standard, it tends to not be supported very well, because companies/developers don't have time to spend designing and testing the interaction, much less the actual code, for the relatively few users who have the device. Apple may have more success with this, because MacOS developers will be more likely to have it and may want to play with their new toy...
mark-r 10y ago
When I saw the limit on battery size my head screamed "citation needed", so I went out and found it for myself: https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/hazmat_safety/more_info/?hazmat=7 https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/hazmat_safety/more_inf... Is this something new? Have laptop batteries always been less than 100Wh?

52 points by clumsysmurf 10y ago

The article gets some stuff wrong. 1. Though macbook pro battery capacity has been reduced to 76Wh, he still attributes not adding more RAM to 100Wh ceiling by FAA 2. States that only laptops with 32GB is as heavy as 17 pounds and bulky. But Dell XPS 15 comes with 32 GB and weighs only 4.5 pounds. https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Dell-XPS-15-9550-Signature-Edition-Laptop/productID.326871600 https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Dell-XP... 3. Dell XPS 15 comes with 1 USB-C, 2 USB-3.0 ports, HDMI and SD card reader and thus don't need dongles and is reasonably slim. Seriously, if Apple had released something like XPS-15 in features, there would have been no criticism.

erebrus 10y ago
1. I believe you got the first point wrong. The claim is that they needed more than 100W to go to 32GB, and not going for 16GB, they didn't need the extra 26W. 2. You are partially right. Yes, 4.5 pounds is very different from 18kg, but if you care about portability, it is still a big different from 3 pounds. 3. The argument he presents is that you need dongles for now, but in the long term, you will need less dongles. So a bit different from what you are arguing.
- jbmorgado 10y ago
  Doubling the RAM, increases the energy consumption of the equipment, but it obviously doesn't double the energy consumption of the equipment.
  - erebrus 10y ago
    Sure. I'm not in position to say whether the claim that the RAM increase would require more than 26W. I'm just arguing that the previous comment was missing the point of what the article was claiming.
    - boundlessdreamz 10y ago
      I'm not missing the point. The author is purely speculating and has no data to backup his claims. Also RAM does not use much power. See here - http://www.buildcomputers.net/power-consumption-of-pc-components.html http://www.buildcomputers.net/power-consumption-of-pc-compon... This is very old data. Newer RAM will use even less
- kbutler 10y ago
  4.4 _pounds_ for xps 15 vs the macbook's 4.02 pounds (15" version). (and if you want a smaller battery for portability on the xps 15, you can get one at 3.9 pounds) Looks like the article author was either blinded by fandom or intentionally misleading. https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/ (choose 15") http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productdetails/xps-15-9550-laptop http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productdetails/xps-15-9550-la...
  - erebrus 10y ago
    I will be suspicious of any opinion in a website with the word mac or apple in it's url. First, the mbp is 3 pounds (from your own link). Second, I looked up the xps 15 also. Not only it is 50% heavier, but it is also much thicker and in bigger in general. Finally, battery life seems to be 5h vs 10h of the mbp. These are different compromises that will please different people and not be acceptable for others.
    - detaro 10y ago
      The 13" is 3 pounds. The 15" is 4, kbutler even reminded you to look at the right one.
    - boundlessdreamz 10y ago
      Check the link. The MBP 15" is 4.02 pounds. 13" is 3.02 pounds. Also the dimensions are roughly the same +-----------+------------------+--------------------+ | Dimension | MBP 15" | XPS 15" | +-----------+------------------+--------------------+ | Height | 0.61" | 0.45-0.66" | | Width | 13.75" | 14.06" | | Depth | 9.48" | 9.27" | | Weight | 4.02 lbs/1.83 kg | 4.50 lbs (2.04 kg) | +-----------+------------------+--------------------+ And the battery life is 7 hours for the 84Whr model. http://www.anandtech.com/show/10116/the-dell-xps-15-9550-review/7 http://www.anandtech.com/show/10116/the-dell-xps-15-9550-rev... In another review it was 8 hours for playing video. Less than MBP at 10 hrs.
    - kbutler 10y ago
      You forgot the "choose 15 inch" on the apple site: MBP13: 3.02 pounds (1.37 kg) MBP15: 4.02 pounds (1.83 kg) XPS15: 4.4 pounds (or 3.9 pounds with smaller battery) MBP15: 15.5mm 349.3mm 240.7mm XPS15: 17mm 357mm 235mm But I agree - if you're wanting maximum portability, go with the smaller 13" device, which is 33% lighter. But then you may want to compare the XPS13, which is smaller, lighter, newer CPU, has a larger battery (dell mentions 18h, reviewers tested 10h+, but actual battery life comparisons TBD), and is also limited to 16gb. Yes, different compromises.
throwaway1X2 10y ago
> 2. States that only laptops with 32GB is as heavy as 17 pounds and bulky. But Dell XPS 15 comes with 32 GB and weighs only 4.5 pounds. That point blew my mind, too. I have 32 GB RAM in a 6 pound laptop (a third of that 8 kg beast presented by the author)... and it's from 2011! If somebody rewrite some BIOS parts, it would even take 64 GB (4x16 GB modules). Yes, not many laptops have four slots, and certainly not the ultrathin ones, but even with two slots, 32 GB is easily possible as 2x16 GB (available both in DDR3 and DDR4) and no 17 pound gaming monster is needed at all. The battery capacity also seems moot. More memory modules draw more power, that is sure, but in terms of laptops with 74 Wh batteries, it is a negligible decrease of battery life, especially if people who need and would order 32 GB RAM would easily sacrifice some battery life (at load) if they can get more of their work done significantly faster without swapping. Also, does the new MacBook Pro actually use only a single module? Because you get the power consumption increases when you add modules. If it internally uses two modules of 8 GB to get 16 GB, then using two 16 GB modules instead would use the same power, unless I'm missing something (the memory is soldered on, so the entire thing may work differently than typical SO-DIMMs).

0n34n7 10y ago

At the end if the day, people are expecting too much from a slab of aluminum. If Apple also announced 64Gb RAM iMacs with all the bells and whistles, perhaps the MacBook Pro backlash would have been less. I for one will be getting the new MBP. I love MacOS. I love the multi touch pad. I love the vibrant screen. If I want to train a neural net, I spin up my Core i7 leaf blower next to my desk and drink coffee at home.

mangeletti 10y ago
I'm a Python developer, and I've been worried about upgrading to MacOS Sierra, after hearing a few anecdotes about bugs, etc. Are you a coder, and have you noticed any things that you wish they'd fix; things that hamper you as a coder? I love El Capitan, esp how they've finally absolutely perfected full screen mode / swipe to switch, half-screen, etc. at this point. Is that all still great?
- danpalmer 10y ago
  I use macOS Sierra on my old Macbook Pro and I've had no Python development issues. I'm using a fairly standard setup with Python versions from Homebrew and virtualenvs.
- mu_killnine 10y ago
  I've been running Sierra for the last month or so and think it's on par with prior macOS releases. There's been no standout feature that's wowed me, but there haven't been outstanding bugs driving me crazy either. Since I don't use the new Siri integration, I couldn't tell you a single difference between this and El Cap (maybe dark mode?) I'm a .net developer running vs code and docker most of the time, for reference. I'm running on a late '13 rMBP.
- rbanffy 10y ago
  Running Python and virtualenv, using Python 2.7 and 3.5 and Macports. No issues whatsoever.
- guitarbill 10y ago
  I use the Homebrew Python2 and 3, and have had no issues. AFAIK not using the Apple Python helps. I actually jumped from Mountain Lion to Sierra and couldn't be happier software-wise.

danpalmer 10y ago

I'm glad someone is being a bit more positive about this. I was a little disappointed at first, but all of the compromises on this machine are fully explained by lead time, battery life and pushing industry standards forward. The first I can't control, the second I don't want to sacrifice, and the third I'm fully in support of. The only real issue for me with this laptop is the price increases in the UK. We're paying about $500 more at current conversion rates than the US price.

deleted 10y ago
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nateberkopec 10y ago
Apple's trying to limit it's currency downside risk. Clearly they think the pound has further to slide.
soneil 10y ago
You're a little off with the UK prices. The US price, pre-tax, for the base 15" model is $2399. At whatever Google thinks is the current exchange rate, that's £1948.43 GBP. Add 20% VAT and it's on the shelf at £2338.12. The UK price for this model is £10.88 more than the direct exchange rate.
- danpalmer 10y ago
  You are correct, I was not accounting for VAT, I guess as the US price does _not_ include sales tax. Thanks!
  - soneil 10y ago
    They almost never do - US sales taxes vary by state, often city, and sometimes county. The combination of these is basically a list of tax by zipcode, so publishing them has more in common with calculating shipping than it does for us. I know it doesn't really help (I'm facing the same problem @ 21%!), but the current conversion is a lot fairer than they've been in the past.

phicoh 10y ago

What was the author smoking? "This is also why the only laptops currently available which support >16GB RAM are huge, like this one which weighs 17 pounds (8KG). " Except that ThinkPad T460 can be ordered with 32 GB memory and weights something like 3.8 lbs (1.7 kg) (of course the upside of the specs being essentially the same as the old one is that you can use the old MBP until USB-C is widespread enough to make it worth switching)

mamp 10y ago
I haven't been able to find out what the battery life is with 32 Gb, but the T460 is 40% thicker than the 13" MBP due to battery, it doesn't have a Retina display and it has a slower intel graphics. I don't think there is a conspiracy here. Intel couldn't deliver the processor to be low power and use 32Gb, Apple prioritised size. I'm not happy, but I'll wait to the next version for the price drop and 32Gb. The big mistake was raising the price. That is shitty.
rbanffy 10y ago
What is the battery life of the TP460?
- phicoh 10y ago
  This page claims 17 hours (with the test described as "Laptop Mag Battery test, which involves continuous surfing over Wi-Fi at 100 nits of brightness") http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/lenovo-thinkpad-t460 http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/lenovo-thinkpad-t46...
- dman 10y ago
  With the extended battery you easily get > 12 hours in real world usage.
feelix 10y ago
That comes with this CPU [1] which is not appropriate for the MBP http://ark.intel.com/products/88190 http://ark.intel.com/products/88190

asadkn 10y ago

Stop defending Apple using the RAM myths floating around. If Dell XPS 15 with 32GB DDR4 ram that's also thin and light can manage 5 hours battery life with a 56Whr battery, Windows, and HQ series intel processors, there's no reason Apple couldn't manage more. Also, the 1.2v SO-DIMM DDR4 ram vs 1.2v LPDDR3 they used have close power consumption.

bitwize 10y ago
Maybe 5h is enough for you, but Apple fans are used to a 10h minimum, likely more. And very thin hardware.
- e40 10y ago
  Then go up to 99Wh, and stop with the "thin" thing. I have the 2014 MBP and it's plenty thin. No need at all to get thinner than that.
  - erebrus 10y ago
    So if it's thin enough for you, it's thin enough for everyone?! Really? People fail to understand that there are pro users with different needs...
    - e40 10y ago
      I didn't say that. They could make the 32GB version thicker.
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      You think 3 pounds + 16 GBs and as thin as possible is a much more common set of requirements than 4 pounds + 32 GBs and still really thin?
    - glenndebacker 10y ago
      I really would like to know what need you could have that is solved by making a laptop 3mm thinner. I personally think their whole obsession by making these laptops thin is contra productive if you think off al the things (non solderable RAM for example) we need to give up for it in return. Or maybe they should just give the user a choice.

amelius 10y ago

Meanwhile, Apple is vertically integrating the whole semiconductor industry for production of iPhones. If this continues, I'm guessing the price for non-Apple hardware will go up. What will this mean for general purpose computing?

kohanz 10y ago

> In the long term it’s doing the exact opposite: It’s finally setting USB-C/thunderbolt as the standard. It's not going to set a new standard if it doesn't sell.

erebrus 10y ago
Do you realistically think it won't sell? Between fanboys and those for which the portability (and usability of macos) beats the absolute top performance you could get...it will still sell enough.
- kohanz 10y ago
  You may well be right. I guess we'll see how much of the MacBook Pro market is made up by actual professionals.

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kriro 10y ago

For me the GPU (even the 460) is the biggest disappointment. Doesn't look like it's good enough to support the VR hardware by Oculus or HTC. Maybe that was just a pipedream but I seem to recall Apple saying something along the lines of the next MBP will be "VR ready" I'll probably still get a 15" MBP as my development machine but I'm not pre-ordering as initially planned and waiting on some reviews first. Edit: I just remembered that the Razer Core external GPU adapter has USB-C so maybe getting one of these to get around this problem could be an option. A pricey option though.

kbutler 10y ago

My main skepticism on the touch bar is the fact that Apple is not making it a standard component across the board (ahem). When a user-interface device is non-standard, it tends to not be supported very well, because companies/developers don't have time to spend designing and testing the interaction, much less the actual code, for the relatively few users who have the device. Apple may have more success with this, because MacOS developers will be more likely to have it and may want to play with their new toy...

mark-r 10y ago

When I saw the limit on battery size my head screamed "citation needed", so I went out and found it for myself: https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/hazmat_safety/more_info/?hazmat=7 https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/hazmat_safety/more_inf... Is this something new? Have laptop batteries always been less than 100Wh?