6 ms·

YouTube's seven-year stand-off ends

110 points by seycombi 10y ago

6stringmerc 10y ago
Not sure I'd come across this particular rights / negotiation case in the past but I'm grateful to get a chance to read this article posted here. Quite useful to stay in the know. I hope all the parties are pretty satisfied with the terms and processes now.
sean_patel 10y ago
I still see "This Content is not available in your Country" on many Japanese Youtube Videos (browsing from USA). And even stranger, it only shows that message when browsing from a mobile phone's browser (ex: iPhone Safari). Here's an example of a cat video (there are many more) : https://www.pawpurrazi.com/cat-toilet-paper-sit-roll/ https://www.pawpurrazi.com/cat-toilet-paper-sit-roll/ Watch the youtube embed video on that page in a mobile phone. So what gives? Is Japan also in some dispute?
- TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
  No, Japanese rightsholders just tend to be strict.
- resfirestar 10y ago
  Also in the USA. That cat video plays on Firefox and Chrome for Android, but if I open the link on my laptop and open the embed in a new tab (because I block external scripts on my laptop), it "contains content from Jukin Media. It is restricted from playback on certain sites." So my guess in this particular case would be that something in Safari prevents YouTube from recognizing that the video is embedded on a site that bought an embed license. The more general problem with watching Japanese videos from the US is largely due to the fact that many Japanese media companies like to sell exclusive international distribution rights for all of their content, regardless of whether the buyer will actually distribute all of the content, or if the buyer is only going to use it in China or Korea. So they block their videos outside of Japan and we often can't find a version available in the US.
  - sean_patel 10y ago
    Interesting. This makes sense. So I guess the content owner / "Licensor" is the problem here, and not Youtube. Good to know.
- kalleboo 10y ago
  Some labels have not accepted the YouTube Red agreements, which means they're unavailable in countries where YouTube Red has been launched (=only the US right now I think) http://www.networkworld.com/article/3014058/mobile-wireless/youtube-red-blocks-japanese-contributors-content-for-refusing-to-use-its-paid-version.html http://www.networkworld.com/article/3014058/mobile-wireless/...
nedsma 10y ago
Finally. I hated internet in Germany because of this and the lack of public wifi access points.
- TillE 10y ago
  ProxFlow (formerly ProxTube) has been around forever, running a bunch of proxy servers as basically a public service. It's widely used in Germany.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  We don't need public wifi access points in most European countries because our 3G and 4G connections tend to be quite good, at least in the main cities.
  - mullsork 10y ago
    Except 3G and 4G is ridiculously costly if you want a reasonable amount of data without taking on a 2 year contract. I live in Berlin and the Germans I talk to about this usually don't see a problem. I moved here from the Nordics so you could say I'm spoiled but I think it's reasonable to have near unlimited data so that I can actually watch YouTube/Spotify/Netflix without worrying that it'll make me unreachable on Whatsapp/Messenger when I'm out and about. Public access points would be great in Berlin (can't say for other cities) for sure, but they'd have to change that stupid law where the owner of a connection (say, a café) is persecuted if one of its visitors do something illegal on their connection.
    - pjmlp 10y ago
      I have 1 GB per month on a O2 pre-paid card in Germany. That is a reasonable amount of data for me. Also that law applies to everyone with an wlan router, not just coffee owners.
      - mullsork 10y ago
        > Also that law applies to everyone with an wlan router, not just coffee owners. Very true. I'm only really thinking about it when I try out a new café that doesn't have WIFI. I used to have 1GB on Blau. I'm trying desperately to cut all ties and get some money back from them but they're horrible, that's another story though. In any case I've been paying about 10e for 1GB per month. Yes I can live it for sure, I often don't even go beyond 600Mb per month. With unlimited data I would use my phone a lot differently though. I'd likely stream Audible Channels if I got the urge or found something interesting while on train, maybe I'd watch something on YT or check out new music. Because of these expensive limited plans I'm not using my phone a lot. It's both a good thing but also a bit sad I think. I'm very much ranting here, sorry for that. It's just weird coming from unlimited data that you pay 15e/month for (4G unlimited mind you) to this thing. Friends at home regularly surpass 10Gb per month because they're streaming music constantly. Some even use their phones as the only internet connection they have, skipping landlines entirely!
erikb 10y ago
This was really a ridiculous situation. Sometimes you couldn't see a movie trailer (which is basically an ad) because there was a GEMA song in it, and sometimes you couldn't watch the song video from the musicians official channel because GEMA. I really hope that this will all be opened now that the case is finished.
anotheryou 10y ago
Maybe they got cold feet because finally a cool alternative to GEMA is emerging: https://www.c3s.cc/ https://www.c3s.cc/ (current status: somewhere in the bureaucratic labyrinth, but slowly making progress)
nom 10y ago
German here. I'm happy that the whole thing is finally over, but also at the same time very angry that GEMA succeeded in getting it their way, once again. I don't think it's known how much money really changed hands, but knowing Google and the scale of the situation, I think it's a fair bet that GEMA got a huge sum out of this.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  I agree, if for music videos I always could find another source GEMA free, the same couldn't be worked around for conference videos. There were quite a few talks I missed, because of GEMA. In the end they won, just like those guys that come around talking about how life is dangerous and accidents do happen. This is how I see GEMA and their "business".
  - candiodari 10y ago
    It's sad, as there are also constant complaints about GEMA from artists. They serve themselves only, not artists.
    - pjmlp 10y ago
      Just like GEZ.
- philfrasty 10y ago
  (I am not familiar with the GEMA business) „...very angry that GEMA succeeded...“ Why? Don't they collect money for the artists (I guess after taking their cut)? Which seems very hard to do as an individual artist...and very easy if you have a massive artist-base.
  - _0ffh 10y ago
    GEMA is widely disliked in Germany, mostly because of it's heavy handed business practices, enabled by historically established political connections and sleaze, and it's internal corruption and unfair distribution of the taken money.

110 points by seycombi 10y ago

Not sure I'd come across this particular rights / negotiation case in the past but I'm grateful to get a chance to read this article posted here. Quite useful to stay in the know. I hope all the parties are pretty satisfied with the terms and processes now.

sean_patel 10y ago

I still see "This Content is not available in your Country" on many Japanese Youtube Videos (browsing from USA). And even stranger, it only shows that message when browsing from a mobile phone's browser (ex: iPhone Safari). Here's an example of a cat video (there are many more) : https://www.pawpurrazi.com/cat-toilet-paper-sit-roll/ https://www.pawpurrazi.com/cat-toilet-paper-sit-roll/ Watch the youtube embed video on that page in a mobile phone. So what gives? Is Japan also in some dispute?

TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
No, Japanese rightsholders just tend to be strict.
resfirestar 10y ago
Also in the USA. That cat video plays on Firefox and Chrome for Android, but if I open the link on my laptop and open the embed in a new tab (because I block external scripts on my laptop), it "contains content from Jukin Media. It is restricted from playback on certain sites." So my guess in this particular case would be that something in Safari prevents YouTube from recognizing that the video is embedded on a site that bought an embed license. The more general problem with watching Japanese videos from the US is largely due to the fact that many Japanese media companies like to sell exclusive international distribution rights for all of their content, regardless of whether the buyer will actually distribute all of the content, or if the buyer is only going to use it in China or Korea. So they block their videos outside of Japan and we often can't find a version available in the US.
- sean_patel 10y ago
  Interesting. This makes sense. So I guess the content owner / "Licensor" is the problem here, and not Youtube. Good to know.
kalleboo 10y ago
Some labels have not accepted the YouTube Red agreements, which means they're unavailable in countries where YouTube Red has been launched (=only the US right now I think) http://www.networkworld.com/article/3014058/mobile-wireless/youtube-red-blocks-japanese-contributors-content-for-refusing-to-use-its-paid-version.html http://www.networkworld.com/article/3014058/mobile-wireless/...

nedsma 10y ago

Finally. I hated internet in Germany because of this and the lack of public wifi access points.

TillE 10y ago
ProxFlow (formerly ProxTube) has been around forever, running a bunch of proxy servers as basically a public service. It's widely used in Germany.
pjmlp 10y ago
We don't need public wifi access points in most European countries because our 3G and 4G connections tend to be quite good, at least in the main cities.
- mullsork 10y ago
  Except 3G and 4G is ridiculously costly if you want a reasonable amount of data without taking on a 2 year contract. I live in Berlin and the Germans I talk to about this usually don't see a problem. I moved here from the Nordics so you could say I'm spoiled but I think it's reasonable to have near unlimited data so that I can actually watch YouTube/Spotify/Netflix without worrying that it'll make me unreachable on Whatsapp/Messenger when I'm out and about. Public access points would be great in Berlin (can't say for other cities) for sure, but they'd have to change that stupid law where the owner of a connection (say, a café) is persecuted if one of its visitors do something illegal on their connection.
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    I have 1 GB per month on a O2 pre-paid card in Germany. That is a reasonable amount of data for me. Also that law applies to everyone with an wlan router, not just coffee owners.
    - mullsork 10y ago
      > Also that law applies to everyone with an wlan router, not just coffee owners. Very true. I'm only really thinking about it when I try out a new café that doesn't have WIFI. I used to have 1GB on Blau. I'm trying desperately to cut all ties and get some money back from them but they're horrible, that's another story though. In any case I've been paying about 10e for 1GB per month. Yes I can live it for sure, I often don't even go beyond 600Mb per month. With unlimited data I would use my phone a lot differently though. I'd likely stream Audible Channels if I got the urge or found something interesting while on train, maybe I'd watch something on YT or check out new music. Because of these expensive limited plans I'm not using my phone a lot. It's both a good thing but also a bit sad I think. I'm very much ranting here, sorry for that. It's just weird coming from unlimited data that you pay 15e/month for (4G unlimited mind you) to this thing. Friends at home regularly surpass 10Gb per month because they're streaming music constantly. Some even use their phones as the only internet connection they have, skipping landlines entirely!

erikb 10y ago

This was really a ridiculous situation. Sometimes you couldn't see a movie trailer (which is basically an ad) because there was a GEMA song in it, and sometimes you couldn't watch the song video from the musicians official channel because GEMA. I really hope that this will all be opened now that the case is finished.

anotheryou 10y ago

Maybe they got cold feet because finally a cool alternative to GEMA is emerging: https://www.c3s.cc/ https://www.c3s.cc/ (current status: somewhere in the bureaucratic labyrinth, but slowly making progress)

nom 10y ago

German here. I'm happy that the whole thing is finally over, but also at the same time very angry that GEMA succeeded in getting it their way, once again. I don't think it's known how much money really changed hands, but knowing Google and the scale of the situation, I think it's a fair bet that GEMA got a huge sum out of this.

pjmlp 10y ago
I agree, if for music videos I always could find another source GEMA free, the same couldn't be worked around for conference videos. There were quite a few talks I missed, because of GEMA. In the end they won, just like those guys that come around talking about how life is dangerous and accidents do happen. This is how I see GEMA and their "business".
- candiodari 10y ago
  It's sad, as there are also constant complaints about GEMA from artists. They serve themselves only, not artists.
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    Just like GEZ.
philfrasty 10y ago
(I am not familiar with the GEMA business) „...very angry that GEMA succeeded...“ Why? Don't they collect money for the artists (I guess after taking their cut)? Which seems very hard to do as an individual artist...and very easy if you have a massive artist-base.
- _0ffh 10y ago
  GEMA is widely disliked in Germany, mostly because of it's heavy handed business practices, enabled by historically established political connections and sleaze, and it's internal corruption and unfair distribution of the taken money.