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I don't get the amount of grudge towards Apple for the new MBPs. Yeah, they could support 32GB of Ram, more battery would be nice too, and yeah I think almost n

by cseelus 10y ago

I don't get the amount of grudge towards Apple for the new MBPs. Yeah, they could support 32GB of Ram, more battery would be nice too, and yeah I think almost no one got overwhelmed by he innovation Apple brought to the table with them, but what are the alternatives? The author mentions in another post why he is done with Apple after his 2013 13" MBP and states he has no use for the Touch Bar. Thats fine, just get the Pro without the bar and with physical function keys. The build quality of other laptops just isn't on par with Apples. Greg Koenig and many others have analyzed why Apple has a tremendous edge over other vendors when it comes to building computers and gadgets from aluminum[1]. Also if your are used to macOS, its perfect integration of hardware and software, its polish and many of the very nicely crafted ("made with ︎love") 3rd party applications, it might be very hard to switch to a decent Linux distro, let alone Windows. It may be wise to first try the switch on your current Mac, inside a Virtual Machine … [1] http://atomicdelights.com/blog/why-your-next-iphone-wont-be-ceramic http://atomicdelights.com/blog/why-your-next-iphone-wont-be-... (Featured on HN ~ 2 weeks ago)

vladimir-y 10y ago
> I don't get the amount of grudge towards Apple for the new MBPs MBP would be a fine laptop for a twice less cost. There are cheaper decent alternatives.
- NEDM64 10y ago
  Except those alternatives are usually crap and more expensive
  - vladimir-y 10y ago
    That's not true, unless you are talking about Asus/Lenovo products, see larger picture.
    - NEDM64 10y ago
      Which alternative has a 3 gigabyte per second SSD? And four USB-C 3.1 ports with TB 3.0? And a TouchBar? And really last 10 hours on battery (Microsoft advertised 12 for the SurfaceBook and it only lasted 6 on the same test the MBP lasted 10)
      - vladimir-y 10y ago
        Those things is not a deal breaker, it doesn't make sense to pay double price in comparison with similar laptops just to get above things, especially TouchBar which costs about $500 and will make you fill uncomfortable with laptop at least for a first time (but I guess constantly).
        NEDM64 10y ago
        Yes they are, along with real life battery usage, trackpad, keyboard, size, screen, etc. I dont know where you got the $500 touchbar, and I don't want to know.
        vladimir-y 10y ago
        Keep rest mate, I'm glad you made your choice.
        NEDM64 10y ago
        > TouchBar which costs about $500 Still waiting...
        vladimir-y 10y ago
        You will have to wait a long time since > I dont know where you got the $500 touchbar, and I don't want to know. A small hint, just compare prices for touchbar based laptops and those with usual fn keys (13 inch model is optionally shipped with usual fn keys, not the 15 inch though).
        10y ago
angersock 10y ago
"build quality" is the dumbest pseudojustification I've heard. There are a lot of well-built machines out there once you leave the bargain bin--Lenovo for example. Let us just acknowledge it for what it is, posturing.
- petre 10y ago
  I own a Lenovo Thinkpad 550 and the build quality is fine but nowhere near Apple MBP. Bought it because it runs Linux w/o hassles, has an Ethernet port and it costs like less than half the price of the MBP. The screen is also crap compared to Apple MBP. Apple MBP is nice, but lacks Ethernet, a headphone jack, function keys and a SD card reader, all deal breakers to me. And no, dongles don't qualify.
jwr 10y ago
For me the issue is with ports. I have exactly zero devices that I can plug into the new fancy USB ports. None of my monitors will connect. I know, they are better, yadda yadda, but I am tired of being held hostage until the "industry" understands how the new ports are better. Right now I use a MacBook Pro to do my work ("pro", remember?). I need a faster machine, so I will have to upgrade. And I will have to deal with all the dongles, carrying them, remembering about them, losing them, etc. I expect I will eventually make an idiot of myself in front of a client, once they hand me a flash drive with their data and I'll have to admit red-faced that I forgot the dongle thingy. MacBook Pro used to have the "pro" philosophy: stick every port in there, so that the only thing you have to carry is your macbook and you're ready for everything. Then it started: ethernet disappeared, DVI went away, and successively all ports went away until now we are stuck with 4 ports of the same kind, that are useless (but hey, they show great promise!). I don't want a thinner machine. I don't need a lighter machine. I need a machine so that I can do my work. Pro, remember? Price is largely not an issue if you actually use it for work, so I have no complaints there.
- NEDM64 10y ago
  In sum, you want to sacrifice choice with convenience. USB-C works with all the monitor you have and also with all the monitors you'll have. You can use any port on the laptop and crucially charge the laptop and connect to a display with the same cable, and can be even used to connect to other peripherals using the same cable. Your argument is that you don't want to spend $10 in adapters, you'll end up spending more in the future and be limited in terms of compatibility with newer hardware. "Stick every Port in it" is ridiculous also. What laptop does have Ethernet, infiniband, USB-A/B/C, thunderbolt 2.0, miniDisplayPort, MiniUSB, MicroUSB, RS232, Centronics, PS/2, VGA, EGA, PCMCIA, SCSI, eSATA, S-video, etc?
  - rosser 10y ago
    "$10 in adapters"? This is Apple we're talking about. The only thing they've ever sold at a $10 price point is the MagSafe 1 to MagSafe 2 adapter. And, frankly, even that was overpriced.
rosser 10y ago
This kind of apologist attitude, just like everyone throwing money at them when they unilaterally took away the headphone jack, tells Apple they can disappoint and dictate to their customers as much as they want, and will still make money hand over fist for it. Is that really what you want?
- NEDM64 10y ago
  All I see is people attacking the MBP to defend Microsoft outdated (28nm GPU, old ports) garbage
  - rosser 10y ago
    Then you aren't looking very hard. Yes, maybe that's a (small) part of it (though your "28nm gpu" hyperbole really does detract from your point), but it's nowhere near all of it.
    - NEDM64 10y ago
      It is, don't try to hide it. Apple haters.
      - rosser 10y ago
        Dude, I'm typing this on my fifth Apple computer, am currently on my ... sixth, I think, iPhone, and second iPad. Don't make assumptions. Criticism isn't hate. Blind loyalty isn't love.
        NEDM64 10y ago
        Same old story, your actions speak louder.
        rosser 10y ago
        What actions? Voicing my displeasure at the actions of a company to which I've given as much money as I have? Please, be specific.
ashark 10y ago
> The author mentions in another post why he is done with Apple after his 2013 13" MBP and states he has no use for the Touch Bar. Thats fine, just get the Pro without the bar and with physical function keys. That model has slower RAM and I'd guess, based on that, an older generation CPU. Lower clock, too. May as well buy a '15 refurb.
- NEDM64 10y ago
  Wrong. Get your facts right before criticizing.
  - ashark 10y ago
    Are we seeing different Apple store pages or something? Different (lower-numbered) iris graphics, slower ram, et c. What are you seeing? [EDIT] discovered via Wikipedia that it is the same processor generation, just a weaker version. Also, USB-C ports cut down from 4 to 2. The non-touchbar Macbook seems to be designed to make people not buy it. And it's still more expensive than the previous entry level.
    - NEDM64 10y ago
      As I said, get your facts straight, good.
      - ashark 10y ago
        It was a fact that I guessed. On one part. Which I called out as a guess. And the rest was correct.
motoboi 10y ago
> The author mentions in another post why he is done with Apple after his 2013 13" MBP and states he has no use for the Touch Bar. That's fine, just get the Pro without the bar and with physical function keys. The one with physical function keys is less powerful.
adregan 10y ago
I can only speak to my situation, but as the macs took longer and longer to update, I came to the realization that I might need to jump ship. And as the upgrade wasn't entirely reassuring, it seems like it might be better to bite the bullet and switch to linux full time—which, incidentally, I'm also pretty excited about and want to do. The anger/frustration about the new models is about accepting that my time with the mac might be over (a ride which I began back in the OS 8 days). However, seeing how disappointed I've been has only strengthened my resolve to switch as I don't feel I should become that emotionally attached to a company or product (I went through the OS holy wars as a middle schooler, so I can forgive it as a folly of my youth).
audleman 10y ago
To me the emoji bar indicates a faltering vision. "Hey developers, we know what a pain typing emoji is for you, we're listening and check out our new touch bar!!" Is Apple really that far off course in understanding developers as a user base? I get what you're saying about the over-hype and I'm not about to dump my MBP. I don't think anyone is going to produce as high of a quality product anytime soon, but it does leave me curious what else is out there.
HappyAndHarmles 10y ago
> It may be wise to first try the switch on your current Mac, inside a Virtual Machine … This is exactly what I'm doing. I run Spacemacs in a Ubuntu VM running on Parallels. I'm not too sure if I would be willing to move away from the OS X apps ecosystem though (I use 1Password, Day One, OmniFocus, iBooks, Notes, Photos etc and they all sync perfectly with the iPhone).

by cseelus 10y ago

vladimir-y 10y ago

> I don't get the amount of grudge towards Apple for the new MBPs MBP would be a fine laptop for a twice less cost. There are cheaper decent alternatives.

NEDM64 10y ago
Except those alternatives are usually crap and more expensive
- vladimir-y 10y ago
  That's not true, unless you are talking about Asus/Lenovo products, see larger picture.
  - NEDM64 10y ago
    Which alternative has a 3 gigabyte per second SSD? And four USB-C 3.1 ports with TB 3.0? And a TouchBar? And really last 10 hours on battery (Microsoft advertised 12 for the SurfaceBook and it only lasted 6 on the same test the MBP lasted 10)
    - vladimir-y 10y ago
      Those things is not a deal breaker, it doesn't make sense to pay double price in comparison with similar laptops just to get above things, especially TouchBar which costs about $500 and will make you fill uncomfortable with laptop at least for a first time (but I guess constantly).
      - NEDM64 10y ago
        Yes they are, along with real life battery usage, trackpad, keyboard, size, screen, etc. I dont know where you got the $500 touchbar, and I don't want to know.
        vladimir-y 10y ago
        Keep rest mate, I'm glad you made your choice.
        NEDM64 10y ago
        > TouchBar which costs about $500 Still waiting...
        vladimir-y 10y ago
        You will have to wait a long time since > I dont know where you got the $500 touchbar, and I don't want to know. A small hint, just compare prices for touchbar based laptops and those with usual fn keys (13 inch model is optionally shipped with usual fn keys, not the 15 inch though).
        10y ago

angersock 10y ago

"build quality" is the dumbest pseudojustification I've heard. There are a lot of well-built machines out there once you leave the bargain bin--Lenovo for example. Let us just acknowledge it for what it is, posturing.

petre 10y ago
I own a Lenovo Thinkpad 550 and the build quality is fine but nowhere near Apple MBP. Bought it because it runs Linux w/o hassles, has an Ethernet port and it costs like less than half the price of the MBP. The screen is also crap compared to Apple MBP. Apple MBP is nice, but lacks Ethernet, a headphone jack, function keys and a SD card reader, all deal breakers to me. And no, dongles don't qualify.

jwr 10y ago

For me the issue is with ports. I have exactly zero devices that I can plug into the new fancy USB ports. None of my monitors will connect. I know, they are better, yadda yadda, but I am tired of being held hostage until the "industry" understands how the new ports are better. Right now I use a MacBook Pro to do my work ("pro", remember?). I need a faster machine, so I will have to upgrade. And I will have to deal with all the dongles, carrying them, remembering about them, losing them, etc. I expect I will eventually make an idiot of myself in front of a client, once they hand me a flash drive with their data and I'll have to admit red-faced that I forgot the dongle thingy. MacBook Pro used to have the "pro" philosophy: stick every port in there, so that the only thing you have to carry is your macbook and you're ready for everything. Then it started: ethernet disappeared, DVI went away, and successively all ports went away until now we are stuck with 4 ports of the same kind, that are useless (but hey, they show great promise!). I don't want a thinner machine. I don't need a lighter machine. I need a machine so that I can do my work. Pro, remember? Price is largely not an issue if you actually use it for work, so I have no complaints there.

NEDM64 10y ago
In sum, you want to sacrifice choice with convenience. USB-C works with all the monitor you have and also with all the monitors you'll have. You can use any port on the laptop and crucially charge the laptop and connect to a display with the same cable, and can be even used to connect to other peripherals using the same cable. Your argument is that you don't want to spend $10 in adapters, you'll end up spending more in the future and be limited in terms of compatibility with newer hardware. "Stick every Port in it" is ridiculous also. What laptop does have Ethernet, infiniband, USB-A/B/C, thunderbolt 2.0, miniDisplayPort, MiniUSB, MicroUSB, RS232, Centronics, PS/2, VGA, EGA, PCMCIA, SCSI, eSATA, S-video, etc?
- rosser 10y ago
  "$10 in adapters"? This is Apple we're talking about. The only thing they've ever sold at a $10 price point is the MagSafe 1 to MagSafe 2 adapter. And, frankly, even that was overpriced.

rosser 10y ago

This kind of apologist attitude, just like everyone throwing money at them when they unilaterally took away the headphone jack, tells Apple they can disappoint and dictate to their customers as much as they want, and will still make money hand over fist for it. Is that really what you want?

NEDM64 10y ago
All I see is people attacking the MBP to defend Microsoft outdated (28nm GPU, old ports) garbage
- rosser 10y ago
  Then you aren't looking very hard. Yes, maybe that's a (small) part of it (though your "28nm gpu" hyperbole really does detract from your point), but it's nowhere near all of it.
  - NEDM64 10y ago
    It is, don't try to hide it. Apple haters.
    - rosser 10y ago
      Dude, I'm typing this on my fifth Apple computer, am currently on my ... sixth, I think, iPhone, and second iPad. Don't make assumptions. Criticism isn't hate. Blind loyalty isn't love.
      - NEDM64 10y ago
        Same old story, your actions speak louder.
        rosser 10y ago
        What actions? Voicing my displeasure at the actions of a company to which I've given as much money as I have? Please, be specific.

ashark 10y ago

> The author mentions in another post why he is done with Apple after his 2013 13" MBP and states he has no use for the Touch Bar. Thats fine, just get the Pro without the bar and with physical function keys. That model has slower RAM and I'd guess, based on that, an older generation CPU. Lower clock, too. May as well buy a '15 refurb.

NEDM64 10y ago
Wrong. Get your facts right before criticizing.
- ashark 10y ago
  Are we seeing different Apple store pages or something? Different (lower-numbered) iris graphics, slower ram, et c. What are you seeing? [EDIT] discovered via Wikipedia that it is the same processor generation, just a weaker version. Also, USB-C ports cut down from 4 to 2. The non-touchbar Macbook seems to be designed to make people not buy it. And it's still more expensive than the previous entry level.
  - NEDM64 10y ago
    As I said, get your facts straight, good.
    - ashark 10y ago
      It was a fact that I guessed. On one part. Which I called out as a guess. And the rest was correct.

motoboi 10y ago

> The author mentions in another post why he is done with Apple after his 2013 13" MBP and states he has no use for the Touch Bar. That's fine, just get the Pro without the bar and with physical function keys. The one with physical function keys is less powerful.

adregan 10y ago

I can only speak to my situation, but as the macs took longer and longer to update, I came to the realization that I might need to jump ship. And as the upgrade wasn't entirely reassuring, it seems like it might be better to bite the bullet and switch to linux full time—which, incidentally, I'm also pretty excited about and want to do. The anger/frustration about the new models is about accepting that my time with the mac might be over (a ride which I began back in the OS 8 days). However, seeing how disappointed I've been has only strengthened my resolve to switch as I don't feel I should become that emotionally attached to a company or product (I went through the OS holy wars as a middle schooler, so I can forgive it as a folly of my youth).

audleman 10y ago

To me the emoji bar indicates a faltering vision. "Hey developers, we know what a pain typing emoji is for you, we're listening and check out our new touch bar!!" Is Apple really that far off course in understanding developers as a user base? I get what you're saying about the over-hype and I'm not about to dump my MBP. I don't think anyone is going to produce as high of a quality product anytime soon, but it does leave me curious what else is out there.

HappyAndHarmles 10y ago

> It may be wise to first try the switch on your current Mac, inside a Virtual Machine … This is exactly what I'm doing. I run Spacemacs in a Ubuntu VM running on Parallels. I'm not too sure if I would be willing to move away from the OS X apps ecosystem though (I use 1Password, Day One, OmniFocus, iBooks, Notes, Photos etc and they all sync perfectly with the iPhone).