5 ms·

Transcontinental anaesthesia: a pilot study (2013)

25 points by dluc 10y ago

mikeash 10y ago
Holy cow, that's a confusing title. I clicked on it trying to figure out why you'd give pilots anesthesia on a transcontinental flight. In case anyone hits the comments first and has the same confusion: it's a "pilot study" in the sense that it's the first of its kind, and "transcontinental" refers to controlling the process remotely. Basically: can your anesthesiologist be off-site and do his work over the internet instead of having to be in the operating room?
- srean 10y ago
  My first thoughts were on similar lines: A study on how to put economy class transcontinental-flight passengers out of their misery, pack them like sardines and resuscitate them on arrival. Wierdly enough, I might be tempted to opt for such a dystopian travel machinery than the one that exists now.
  - mikeash 10y ago
    If it could be demonstrated to be safe, I have trouble seeing any downside to your idea!
    - Kenji 10y ago
      Probably because anaesthesia has significant risks, and even if it was safe, most people would spend the first few hours on arrival puking (a very common side effect of anaesthesia).
      - sargun 10y ago
        Even at that, you have to be able to evacuate a commercial airliner in ~90 seconds. How do you fix this?
        verdex_blarg 10y ago
        Each person sleeps in a coffin that is also an autonomous vehicle. When the emergency alarm is raised (and the plane is on the ground), all of the coffins get dropped off the bottom of the plane and they all drive their individual passengers off to safety. EDIT: Heck, I don't see why you couldn't also put a parachute on the thing.
        dantillberg 10y ago
        It doesn't have to be an airliner; if you get to "sleep" for the whole journey, why not stretch the trip to a few days or weeks on a train or bus or boat?
        ar15saveslives 10y ago
        Because we have just 10-15 days of vacation per year.
        schoen 10y ago
        Unfortunately, being unconscious and relatively immobile for that long would be extremely bad for your health. People in a coma require a lot of specialized nursing care -- for example to avoid developing bed sores -- and anyone immobile for a long time risks cardiovascular problems and muscle atrophy. You can get quite deconditioned from just a week or two of bed rest. The "stasis" approach for long trips would probably have to be something higher-tech than just regular anesthesia...
  - ibejoeb 10y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jaunt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jaunt
- woliveirajr 10y ago
  Could change the title to "applying anesthesia from a remote site: a pioneering study".
Moshe_Silnorin 10y ago
There are powerful forces disallowing such innovations:https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/s/601141/automated-anesthesiologist-suffers-a-painful-defeat/amp/?client=safari https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/s/60114...
- amelius 10y ago
  > But the professional group said the idea of a machine replacing human expertise was dangerous. Not surprising given that those doctors' job is on the line here.
achr2 10y ago
Anaesthesiologist seems like one of the first doctors that could be entirely replaced with a robotic system. They are basically there to monitor and asses multiple vital factors, which seems entirely appropriate for a control system.
- mysterypie 10y ago
  Pharmacist is the medical job that is already completely obsolete and could be eliminated if not for unions and inertia. Pharmacists almost never do compounding anymore. They just take pills off a shelf and hand it to you. If manufacturers and doctors could agree on standard drug regimens, counting out pills would be unnecessary as well (or could be replaced by minimum wage labor or robotic/vending machine-like devices). Most pharmacies have a computerized drug-interaction checker, so even that minor function of the pharmacist is unneeded. I wonder how recent pharmacy graduates feel about spending years of studying and training and major expense for what turns out (in today's world) to be a clerical job? I expect that within 5 to 10 years, pharmacist will be one of those jobs like telephone operator or travel agent that used to employ hundreds of thousands of people, but is now only seen in old movies.
  - achr2 10y ago
    Good point. From what I've heard, many hospitals have already gone this route internally with automated drug dispensers. Publicly, this might take a lot longer since there is an ageing population that is simultaneously more reliant on pharmaceuticals and very adverse to change and technology.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    Machines already count the pills. (top search result: http://kirbylester.com/kirby-lester-products-and-technology.html http://kirbylester.com/kirby-lester-products-and-technology.... ) Pharmacists are still well paid, which implies they are doing something of value (even at big chain stores they have good salaries).
    - pkaye 10y ago
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

25 points by dluc 10y ago

Holy cow, that's a confusing title. I clicked on it trying to figure out why you'd give pilots anesthesia on a transcontinental flight. In case anyone hits the comments first and has the same confusion: it's a "pilot study" in the sense that it's the first of its kind, and "transcontinental" refers to controlling the process remotely. Basically: can your anesthesiologist be off-site and do his work over the internet instead of having to be in the operating room?

srean 10y ago
My first thoughts were on similar lines: A study on how to put economy class transcontinental-flight passengers out of their misery, pack them like sardines and resuscitate them on arrival. Wierdly enough, I might be tempted to opt for such a dystopian travel machinery than the one that exists now.
- mikeash 10y ago
  If it could be demonstrated to be safe, I have trouble seeing any downside to your idea!
  - Kenji 10y ago
    Probably because anaesthesia has significant risks, and even if it was safe, most people would spend the first few hours on arrival puking (a very common side effect of anaesthesia).
    - sargun 10y ago
      Even at that, you have to be able to evacuate a commercial airliner in ~90 seconds. How do you fix this?
      - verdex_blarg 10y ago
        Each person sleeps in a coffin that is also an autonomous vehicle. When the emergency alarm is raised (and the plane is on the ground), all of the coffins get dropped off the bottom of the plane and they all drive their individual passengers off to safety. EDIT: Heck, I don't see why you couldn't also put a parachute on the thing.
      - dantillberg 10y ago
        It doesn't have to be an airliner; if you get to "sleep" for the whole journey, why not stretch the trip to a few days or weeks on a train or bus or boat?
        ar15saveslives 10y ago
        Because we have just 10-15 days of vacation per year.
        schoen 10y ago
        Unfortunately, being unconscious and relatively immobile for that long would be extremely bad for your health. People in a coma require a lot of specialized nursing care -- for example to avoid developing bed sores -- and anyone immobile for a long time risks cardiovascular problems and muscle atrophy. You can get quite deconditioned from just a week or two of bed rest. The "stasis" approach for long trips would probably have to be something higher-tech than just regular anesthesia...
- ibejoeb 10y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jaunt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jaunt
woliveirajr 10y ago
Could change the title to "applying anesthesia from a remote site: a pioneering study".

Moshe_Silnorin 10y ago

There are powerful forces disallowing such innovations:https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/s/601141/automated-anesthesiologist-suffers-a-painful-defeat/amp/?client=safari https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/s/60114...

amelius 10y ago
> But the professional group said the idea of a machine replacing human expertise was dangerous. Not surprising given that those doctors' job is on the line here.

achr2 10y ago

Anaesthesiologist seems like one of the first doctors that could be entirely replaced with a robotic system. They are basically there to monitor and asses multiple vital factors, which seems entirely appropriate for a control system.

mysterypie 10y ago
Pharmacist is the medical job that is already completely obsolete and could be eliminated if not for unions and inertia. Pharmacists almost never do compounding anymore. They just take pills off a shelf and hand it to you. If manufacturers and doctors could agree on standard drug regimens, counting out pills would be unnecessary as well (or could be replaced by minimum wage labor or robotic/vending machine-like devices). Most pharmacies have a computerized drug-interaction checker, so even that minor function of the pharmacist is unneeded. I wonder how recent pharmacy graduates feel about spending years of studying and training and major expense for what turns out (in today's world) to be a clerical job? I expect that within 5 to 10 years, pharmacist will be one of those jobs like telephone operator or travel agent that used to employ hundreds of thousands of people, but is now only seen in old movies.
- achr2 10y ago
  Good point. From what I've heard, many hospitals have already gone this route internally with automated drug dispensers. Publicly, this might take a lot longer since there is an ageing population that is simultaneously more reliant on pharmaceuticals and very adverse to change and technology.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  Machines already count the pills. (top search result: http://kirbylester.com/kirby-lester-products-and-technology.html http://kirbylester.com/kirby-lester-products-and-technology.... ) Pharmacists are still well paid, which implies they are doing something of value (even at big chain stores they have good salaries).
  - pkaye 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]