14 ms·

Making what people want isn’t enough, you have to share it

269 points by johnwheeler 10y ago

jamestimmins 10y ago
What subreddits are good places to share on Reddit? I'd love to get feedback on small projects, but things that are definitely not polished/planned out enough to warrant posting on Product Hunt. I find that feedback is most helpful in the "simple little tool" phase.
- overcast 10y ago
  Click on that little 'Show' link at the top of your screen.
  - jamestimmins 10y ago
    Hah thanks! I've never noticed that before.
    - overcast 10y ago
      You're welcome! People are much more helpful here than on Reddit in my experience.
- dbla 10y ago
  I always go for the product specific subreddits. Right now I'm working on a fitness tracker for rock climbers, so I picked r/climbing and r/bouldering. So I think it depends on what you're trying to share.
- loader 10y ago
  If it's a web based project /r/internetisbeautiful can get you a lot of exposure.
- rocky1138 10y ago
  I launched my HTC Vive game just under two weeks ago and /r/vive has been tremendous in supporting me with feedback and kind words. I'm no expert but based on my experience going right to the people who will be using your product works wonders. It helps the ego when it's something they like. If you get ignored, try one more time then abandon the project.
- johnwheeler 10y ago
  /r/startups /r/entrepreneur /r/technology /r/learnpython /r/learnprogramming /r/programming/ even small ones like /r/blogging /r/coolgithubprojects
sosuke 10y ago
When you do share it try not to get discouraged if no one looks at it, is dismissive of it or even becomes inflammatory of you sharing your own creation. Kind of like an extension of the quote: "Don't worry about people stealing an idea. If it's original, you will have to ram it down their throats."
- moron4hire 10y ago
  I think if people are ignoring you, it's a signal that you're not making something people care about. In contrast, negative criticism is a signal that you're working on something people care about, you've just not figured out either the product or the marketing message correctly. Universally positive feedback is probably a sign that nobody is paying attention, but they like you for some reason--either you're a celebrity or you're new and people think you're brave just for trying. Negative criticism is probably the only useful criticism you're likely to get. Few people will bother with posting a positive, even-minded critique of a project. So hang on to those "haters." They're the ones you need to care about the most.
  - johnwheeler 10y ago
    > I think if people are ignoring you, it's a signal that you're not making something people care about. Not necessarily. This is the third time I posted this story on HN (HN allows a small number of reposts), and who knows why it got ignored the first two times. It could have been timing. It might have been the title and organization of my content, which I tweaked on subsequent submissions. I've never submitted anything that had universally positive feedback, so I wouldn't know what to make of that, but negative criticism isn't necessarily worth much if it isn't constructive. And, even constructive criticism needs to be taken with a grain of salt. It's likely to have a lot more weight if it's coming from someone who has been where you want to go; otherwise, it needs to be scrutinized for motive and value. (i.e. sometimes people are looking for validation themselves, and criticism is a cheap way of throwing things out there and getting feedback).
    - overcast 10y ago
ronilan 10y ago
If you "liberate yourself from giving a shit" how would you give shit about "making what people want"?
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- dkrich 10y ago
  I think he's referring specifically to giving a shit about people's criticism or even lack of interest, not about the product itself. Just about anyone who has publicly launched a product or idea knows what it's like to have your ego crushed by people who take one look and dismiss work that you've likely spent a lot of time and enthusiasm on. That can hurt a lot, and you really do have to develop a thick skin to a point where you don't get discouraged by criticism and dismissive attitudes (which frankly seem to be the default on this forum).
  - delegate 10y ago
    I thought there was something wrong with my projects, with the code or with myself when people did that. And probably, there is :). But as I get older I try to give less of a shit about what others say. I've also noticed that people troll more when they are unhappy about something in their life - I know it because I do it too - I'm more negative or dismissive when things aren't going quite as I'd like them or when I have an argument with my wife or something...
    - TeMPOraL 10y ago
      > I've also noticed that people troll more when they are unhappy about something in their life Right. Good thing to remember. I also realize that I have days of cynical mood, in which I tend to click "Reply" instead of "Close tab" and some poor randomly selected commenter now gets to read my rant...
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happy-go-lucky 10y ago
@johnwheeler, good to see you again. How is it coming along?
- johnwheeler 10y ago
  My latest progress report: https://www.sitepoint.com/how-i-made-2000-in-1-5-months-starting-with-a-google-form-based-mvp/ https://www.sitepoint.com/how-i-made-2000-in-1-5-months-star... Trying to get the word out any and every way. Having a blast doing it. Thanks for asking!
  - happy-go-lucky 10y ago
    Looks like sharing it all has worked its magic. Keep up the good work :)
beamatronic 10y ago
This is something I struggled with. I built something that I wanted, but I haven't shared it with anyone yet. I wanted a REST client that would not only allow me to get some data, but then do some simple graphing with it, right in the tool. It's not really packaged up well at this time, but the screen shot gets the idea across. https://github.com/beamatronic/JsonAnalysisTool https://github.com/beamatronic/JsonAnalysisTool
mstodd 10y ago
I take the opposite approach. If I share my idea and people say "that's a great idea", I get a feeling of accomplishment even I haven't done anything. It can be tough to actually do the hard work now instead of just coming up with another "great idea" again and being praised for it. https://sivers.org/zipit https://sivers.org/zipit
- danieltillett 10y ago
  Care to share some of these great ideas?
rb808 10y ago
> Sharing takes extra effort. its more than a little extra effort though. If some library you use yourself takes X effort, cleaning API, making good documentation is 3x, promotion probably means 4x, support brings it to more like 8x especially if popular. Are you sure its worth it?
- weaksauce 10y ago
  What work is worth it to do with 100% certainty? A lot of times these things open up new opportunities even though you might find yourself working on a bust. most times even if it's not valuable from the get go you can always use it when someone asks about your open source contributions or maybe the thing you are working on sparks an idea for another product or gives you some working knowledge of some new library or language that is useful for your next job search.
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  But doing that 8x work is a difference between an obscure Github repo and next fad in the JS world. (You could probably skip making good documentation, everybody does that and it doesn't seem to stop popularity.) I'd also question making good documentation is 3x the effort - not if your product is really doing anything interesting. For interesting stuff, most work is in the internals and not at the edges that will be documented.
  - rhizome 10y ago
    Documentation is not about functionality, but about maintenance and the Bus Factor.
5ilv3r 10y ago
Where do you share? I'm not on facebook, reddits..... bad now, and all the hacker messageboards I used to frequent are gone (benheck, bacmods, etc).
- rawrmaan 10y ago
  HN, Reddit, Product Hunt. Why is Reddit "bad now", because someone wrote that and now it's your new world view? Reddit is stronger than ever.
  - 5ilv3r 10y ago
    Stronger isn't what I'm looking for. If it was, I'd be on facebook. I just want a smaller community with closer interests. More like benheck and bacmods were and less general interest. HN is all business now so it's no good either (for my hacks).
    - sosborn 10y ago
      > I just want a smaller community with closer interests. Whatever you are making I am sure there is a subreddit that is small and closely aligned with your interests.
    - icebraining 10y ago
      HN is all business now HN was initially called "Startup News", it's not a new development.
coupdejarnac 10y ago
I noticed it is free to post a job now. Is this part of the sharing ethos, and has your business model changed?
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leaveyou 10y ago
While I don't mind people sharing their work, I would argue quite the opposite. Make what you want and don't actively share it. Don't waste your time sharing and documenting only to waste even more time maintaining your project if "it becomes successful". >Any programmer worth their salt has a collection of repos Repos are cool but don't be a programmer. Programmers make programs. You should probably make money. If something is not worth selling, probably is not worth actively sharing & supporting either. Bill Gates is not known for his collection of repos. > Factor in the extra time needed on your projects to tune your work and make it resonate with your audience. Be a prolific sharer. Yeah, and don't forget to whip yourself regularly.
- 5ilv3r 10y ago
  Does converting microusb cables to OTG dongles by hand count as a good whipping? crack!
- mbrock 10y ago
  "If something is not worth selling, probably is not worth actively sharing & supporting either." Depends on where you get your motivation and enjoyment.
- moron4hire 10y ago
  That's a bit like saying "carpenters make furniture. You should probably make money." Our craft is programming. In order to create unique value where others haven't out of programs, you should probably be good at programming. If the unique value we would create were out of design, we'd be designers. If it were out of reports, we'd be statisticians. Know your craft and be good at it.
  - leaveyou 10y ago
    I bet there are a lot less carpenters "worth their salt" giving away their designs and "sharing" furniture for free than programmers. Still, if you want and afford to profess for fame and good will, do it..
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fiatjaf 10y ago
People are already sharing a lot, we need more curation. HN is great for that, but still a lot of crap emerges and awesome stuff is ignored, so people have to post multiple times and so on. There are also a lot of paid sharing sites, which means something is very wrong.
- Quiark 10y ago
  Yes, I think there is definitely value in hand-curated lists. Just look at the popularity of the awesome-XYZ repos on github
  - fiatjaf 10y ago
    Despite some of the famoust ones being of great utility, most Awesome-XYZ lists are just "everything that mentions this topic slightly", and so there needs to be better curation there too. Or perhaps a curation of Awesome-XYZ lists.
jklinger410 10y ago
If the problem is worth solving, from a monetary standpoint, then sharing is actually more important than building. I know that's heresy here on hacker news but I am an internet marketer and I have not seen the "if you build it they will come" mentality work very often. In most cases it's "if they want it you should build it."
- cableshaft 10y ago
  I once worked for a client that was so certain they were going to get millions of users within three weeks of launching their mobile app with nothing more than about $100 in Facebook ads marketing. That didn't work out too well for him. I also don't agree with the 'Field of Dreams' marketing strategy. I've seen it fail too many times.
- jsprogrammer 10y ago
  Doesn't "If they want it you should build it" already assume "if you build it they will come"? If you don't think they will come, why are you doing it?
  - jacobolus 10y ago
    The key point here is that you need to have contact/communication with the “they” (either they already contacted you, or you need to put a lot of work into marketing to them). Otherwise “they” are going to ignore you.
  - douche 10y ago
    Because somebody has offered you a fat stack of cash to do it? My company does all kinds of shit that we wouldn't necessarily ever think to do if we were dogfooding it for ourselves, but customers have requests, and once in a while, they're even good ideas that are worth building into the product. The best is when they agree to pay extra for that custom development.
- icebraining 10y ago
  I know that's heresy here on hacker news I don't think we're visiting the same HN.
pascalxus 10y ago
This is a good point, especially about getting over your own ego and fear of rejection. I've shared your post on my twitter. And, btw, if your looking to find others to share with on Twitter, try out http://www.find70.com/?t=ha http://www.find70.com/?t=ha It's the most advanced Twitter Profile Search.
HillaryBriss 10y ago
> If you’re a big picture person unwilling to grind out the gritty details on your project, you might as well just forget the whole damn thing — no one is going to stick around if you don’t. yes. in a corporate context, i've see this same thing happen in a research group which was very "vision driven." the prevailing belief (at the top) was that the group could just implement a bare bones, buggy, semi-documented version of the visionary's idea and simply "hand off" the whole project to another group which could then "realize value" from it. but it never worked out that way. the receiving groups didn't want to spend the time learning about it, setting it up, working around bugs and deficiencies and asking the research group questions about their vision-implementation. in short, the receiving groups never believed in the vision group's implementation enough to invest their time and attention.
fillskills 10y ago
Sharing is so hard. Fear of criticism is so high. Being open and even looking up for critical criticism is important for a product to evolve. Even the iPhone opened up to apps on feedback at launch. Posts like these are very crucial to help people like me get over that bump. I have to say also that I am in love with the website oldgeekjobs. Its so well done.
- johnwheeler 10y ago
  Thank you! I'm trying to keep it loading under 300ms--speed and simplicity as features. I love that you say you're in love with it.
  - adamqureshi 10y ago
    This client asked me to build a job board. I was thinking of using a theme. BUT dang when i saw the UI for OGJ i was curious, would you opensource the Front end? They are in the UK niche market. Figured i'd ask. ;-)
  - fillskills 10y ago
    Sure, I just sent three friends the link. Hope they get jobs using the site.
dfabulich 10y ago
I don't get it. Reddit explicitly forbids self-promotion. https://www.reddit.com/wiki/selfpromotion https://www.reddit.com/wiki/selfpromotion I understand their policies, but I'm running a business. I have time enough to share my work on Reddit, but I don't have time to be an active contributor to Reddit, submitting links from a variety of sources, just so I can occasionally post my own links and get no clicks on them. The only self-promomtion alternative is posting a sponsored headline. Doing that every time I want to share my own stuff is just throwing away money.
- pjlegato 10y ago
  Moreover, most people either run ad blockers that hide the sponsored headlines, or else have simply learned to ignore them as they scan the page visually. I believe what OP is doing -- what all successful self-promoters on Reddit do -- is ignore the "no self-promotion" policy, but avoid getting punished for it by posting on very niche subreddits where a significant percentage of people are actually interested in the product and so "upvote" rather than "report".
- mattthebaker 10y ago
  Reddit is owned by a mass media conglomerate. A significant portion of everything on the site is native advertising. Self promotion would interfere with what they are really pushing and undermine their influence. The smaller communities exist as goodwill to make the high traffic portions seem more authentic. Using sponsored headlines makes you look even worse than posting unfortunately. You have to be an insider to get the native placement I guess. Just watch for the next big hollywood movie to come out and random disguised content x to magically bubble up and plaster the front page.
  - anondon 10y ago
    > The smaller communities exist as goodwill to make the high traffic portions seem more authentic. What makes you think smaller communities exist out of goodwill? People are allowed to create subreddits, and whoever is interested joins the subreddit and engages (or just lurks). It has nothing to do with goodwill. It's fascinating how you spun your narrative to make it seem like "Reddit is owned by a mass media conglomerate" is an evil thing.
arbuge 10y ago
It seems what the author is actually recommding goes beyond just sharing and is actually open sourcing a project's code. Not saying that's necessarily a bad idea, but on the other hand I'm not sure it's always guaranteed to be the best course of action either. I do endorse the viewpoint of sharing updates on a project's progress with the intended audience as often as possible, including when those updates could sometimes be rather minor.
mezod 10y ago
This was a well timed reading for me. Been battling with showing an idea in the last 2 months and the interest has been minimal. People will say it's great and won't even sign up. I guess everyone is too busy with their life. Is at this point where you keep reconsidering if this project is worth the time you've put in it, and you might have to put in it. So, don't concede.
- rhizome 10y ago
  I'm in a similar position, working on an app idea that I've decided to open-source. If it catches on I can create a hosting service for it.
mattbgates 10y ago
I actually have the philosophy: "Build it for yourself, share with others." Everything I have done, I have always just built it because I have needed it and found use for it. I have then shared it with others. In a way, it is totally selfish, but I'm not disappointed if no one uses it because I use it! Why waste my time developing something I would never use? If other people use it, great! If not, I still find it useful! My first PHP project showed me this philosophy was true and fortunately, hundreds of people are actually using it. https://mypost.io/ https://mypost.io/
RachelF 10y ago
Very true - building a great product is only half the story. You also have to market it, something us geeks are normally not that good at. Part of the reason for Linux's failure on the desktop is that is lacks salesmen to push it.
patrickyeon 10y ago
> If your posts don’t get traction, HackerNews allows a small number of reposts spaced out over time — you’re not spamming (so long as you’re not spamming). Interesting to watch. This article has been posted by the same user twice already in the last week, with a different title, and got no traction either time. It's hard sometimes to figure out when what you're offering isn't wanted, and when you just hit the perfect storm that stopped you from getting the attention you deserve. I'm not calling johnwheeler out on this, clearly he's eventually hit the right nerve. But, well, it's a line to walk: taking the hint that some content doesn't resonate with an audience vs. needing the effort to make them realize it should resonate.
- prawn 10y ago
  I posted it also and it went nowhere. Not being in the US, I find timezones can work against stories I think are interesting and post.
kenrick95 10y ago
In short: "Do things, tell people" http://carl.flax.ie/dothingstellpeople.html http://carl.flax.ie/dothingstellpeople.html
tones411 10y ago
What happens if you share it, but haven't built it, and don't have very much time to build it, but someone else does, and they like the idea and build it first?
- bashinator 10y ago
  Hopefully you helped them out enough to be a principal stakeholder.
- Axsuul 10y ago
  This rarely happens. It's a moot point. Potential customers are 99.9% of the time too busy or don't have the resources to execute on a solution.
ilaksh 10y ago
I share quite a bit of what I make or think. It almost always is rewarded with indifference or mild to extreme hostility. The best I can hope for if I am lucky is a tepid level of upvotes (perhaps one or two dozen) and maybe one comment. But I continue to post links and comments on reddit and Hacker News no matter how much hate or indifference I receive. Sometimes I doubt that I should bother. But I do anyway.
golergka 10y ago
It makes a lot of sense. However, being a proficient software engineer is correlated with being introverted, and for an introvert it's much easier and more enjoyable to tinker and build something in solitude than sharing it with others. So, even while sharing itself would take only five minutes vs a few hours to implement another feature, it often requires much more effort and energy.

269 points by johnwheeler 10y ago

What subreddits are good places to share on Reddit? I'd love to get feedback on small projects, but things that are definitely not polished/planned out enough to warrant posting on Product Hunt. I find that feedback is most helpful in the "simple little tool" phase.

overcast 10y ago
Click on that little 'Show' link at the top of your screen.
- jamestimmins 10y ago
  Hah thanks! I've never noticed that before.
  - overcast 10y ago
    You're welcome! People are much more helpful here than on Reddit in my experience.
dbla 10y ago
I always go for the product specific subreddits. Right now I'm working on a fitness tracker for rock climbers, so I picked r/climbing and r/bouldering. So I think it depends on what you're trying to share.
loader 10y ago
If it's a web based project /r/internetisbeautiful can get you a lot of exposure.
rocky1138 10y ago
I launched my HTC Vive game just under two weeks ago and /r/vive has been tremendous in supporting me with feedback and kind words. I'm no expert but based on my experience going right to the people who will be using your product works wonders. It helps the ego when it's something they like. If you get ignored, try one more time then abandon the project.
johnwheeler 10y ago
/r/startups /r/entrepreneur /r/technology /r/learnpython /r/learnprogramming /r/programming/ even small ones like /r/blogging /r/coolgithubprojects

sosuke 10y ago

When you do share it try not to get discouraged if no one looks at it, is dismissive of it or even becomes inflammatory of you sharing your own creation. Kind of like an extension of the quote: "Don't worry about people stealing an idea. If it's original, you will have to ram it down their throats."

moron4hire 10y ago
I think if people are ignoring you, it's a signal that you're not making something people care about. In contrast, negative criticism is a signal that you're working on something people care about, you've just not figured out either the product or the marketing message correctly. Universally positive feedback is probably a sign that nobody is paying attention, but they like you for some reason--either you're a celebrity or you're new and people think you're brave just for trying. Negative criticism is probably the only useful criticism you're likely to get. Few people will bother with posting a positive, even-minded critique of a project. So hang on to those "haters." They're the ones you need to care about the most.
- johnwheeler 10y ago
  > I think if people are ignoring you, it's a signal that you're not making something people care about. Not necessarily. This is the third time I posted this story on HN (HN allows a small number of reposts), and who knows why it got ignored the first two times. It could have been timing. It might have been the title and organization of my content, which I tweaked on subsequent submissions. I've never submitted anything that had universally positive feedback, so I wouldn't know what to make of that, but negative criticism isn't necessarily worth much if it isn't constructive. And, even constructive criticism needs to be taken with a grain of salt. It's likely to have a lot more weight if it's coming from someone who has been where you want to go; otherwise, it needs to be scrutinized for motive and value. (i.e. sometimes people are looking for validation themselves, and criticism is a cheap way of throwing things out there and getting feedback).
  - overcast 10y ago

ronilan 10y ago

If you "liberate yourself from giving a shit" how would you give shit about "making what people want"?

deleted 10y ago
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dkrich 10y ago
I think he's referring specifically to giving a shit about people's criticism or even lack of interest, not about the product itself. Just about anyone who has publicly launched a product or idea knows what it's like to have your ego crushed by people who take one look and dismiss work that you've likely spent a lot of time and enthusiasm on. That can hurt a lot, and you really do have to develop a thick skin to a point where you don't get discouraged by criticism and dismissive attitudes (which frankly seem to be the default on this forum).
- delegate 10y ago
  I thought there was something wrong with my projects, with the code or with myself when people did that. And probably, there is :). But as I get older I try to give less of a shit about what others say. I've also noticed that people troll more when they are unhappy about something in their life - I know it because I do it too - I'm more negative or dismissive when things aren't going quite as I'd like them or when I have an argument with my wife or something...
  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    > I've also noticed that people troll more when they are unhappy about something in their life Right. Good thing to remember. I also realize that I have days of cynical mood, in which I tend to click "Reply" instead of "Close tab" and some poor randomly selected commenter now gets to read my rant...
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happy-go-lucky 10y ago

@johnwheeler, good to see you again. How is it coming along?

johnwheeler 10y ago
My latest progress report: https://www.sitepoint.com/how-i-made-2000-in-1-5-months-starting-with-a-google-form-based-mvp/ https://www.sitepoint.com/how-i-made-2000-in-1-5-months-star... Trying to get the word out any and every way. Having a blast doing it. Thanks for asking!
- happy-go-lucky 10y ago
  Looks like sharing it all has worked its magic. Keep up the good work :)

beamatronic 10y ago

This is something I struggled with. I built something that I wanted, but I haven't shared it with anyone yet. I wanted a REST client that would not only allow me to get some data, but then do some simple graphing with it, right in the tool. It's not really packaged up well at this time, but the screen shot gets the idea across. https://github.com/beamatronic/JsonAnalysisTool https://github.com/beamatronic/JsonAnalysisTool

mstodd 10y ago

I take the opposite approach. If I share my idea and people say "that's a great idea", I get a feeling of accomplishment even I haven't done anything. It can be tough to actually do the hard work now instead of just coming up with another "great idea" again and being praised for it. https://sivers.org/zipit https://sivers.org/zipit

danieltillett 10y ago
Care to share some of these great ideas?

rb808 10y ago

> Sharing takes extra effort. its more than a little extra effort though. If some library you use yourself takes X effort, cleaning API, making good documentation is 3x, promotion probably means 4x, support brings it to more like 8x especially if popular. Are you sure its worth it?

weaksauce 10y ago
What work is worth it to do with 100% certainty? A lot of times these things open up new opportunities even though you might find yourself working on a bust. most times even if it's not valuable from the get go you can always use it when someone asks about your open source contributions or maybe the thing you are working on sparks an idea for another product or gives you some working knowledge of some new library or language that is useful for your next job search.
TeMPOraL 10y ago
But doing that 8x work is a difference between an obscure Github repo and next fad in the JS world. (You could probably skip making good documentation, everybody does that and it doesn't seem to stop popularity.) I'd also question making good documentation is 3x the effort - not if your product is really doing anything interesting. For interesting stuff, most work is in the internals and not at the edges that will be documented.
- rhizome 10y ago
  Documentation is not about functionality, but about maintenance and the Bus Factor.

5ilv3r 10y ago

Where do you share? I'm not on facebook, reddits..... bad now, and all the hacker messageboards I used to frequent are gone (benheck, bacmods, etc).

rawrmaan 10y ago
HN, Reddit, Product Hunt. Why is Reddit "bad now", because someone wrote that and now it's your new world view? Reddit is stronger than ever.
- 5ilv3r 10y ago
  Stronger isn't what I'm looking for. If it was, I'd be on facebook. I just want a smaller community with closer interests. More like benheck and bacmods were and less general interest. HN is all business now so it's no good either (for my hacks).
  - sosborn 10y ago
    > I just want a smaller community with closer interests. Whatever you are making I am sure there is a subreddit that is small and closely aligned with your interests.
  - icebraining 10y ago
    HN is all business now HN was initially called "Startup News", it's not a new development.

coupdejarnac 10y ago

I noticed it is free to post a job now. Is this part of the sharing ethos, and has your business model changed?

deleted 10y ago
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leaveyou 10y ago

While I don't mind people sharing their work, I would argue quite the opposite. Make what you want and don't actively share it. Don't waste your time sharing and documenting only to waste even more time maintaining your project if "it becomes successful". >Any programmer worth their salt has a collection of repos Repos are cool but don't be a programmer. Programmers make programs. You should probably make money. If something is not worth selling, probably is not worth actively sharing & supporting either. Bill Gates is not known for his collection of repos. > Factor in the extra time needed on your projects to tune your work and make it resonate with your audience. Be a prolific sharer. Yeah, and don't forget to whip yourself regularly.

5ilv3r 10y ago
Does converting microusb cables to OTG dongles by hand count as a good whipping? crack!
mbrock 10y ago
"If something is not worth selling, probably is not worth actively sharing & supporting either." Depends on where you get your motivation and enjoyment.
moron4hire 10y ago
That's a bit like saying "carpenters make furniture. You should probably make money." Our craft is programming. In order to create unique value where others haven't out of programs, you should probably be good at programming. If the unique value we would create were out of design, we'd be designers. If it were out of reports, we'd be statisticians. Know your craft and be good at it.
- leaveyou 10y ago
  I bet there are a lot less carpenters "worth their salt" giving away their designs and "sharing" furniture for free than programmers. Still, if you want and afford to profess for fame and good will, do it..
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fiatjaf 10y ago

People are already sharing a lot, we need more curation. HN is great for that, but still a lot of crap emerges and awesome stuff is ignored, so people have to post multiple times and so on. There are also a lot of paid sharing sites, which means something is very wrong.

Quiark 10y ago
Yes, I think there is definitely value in hand-curated lists. Just look at the popularity of the awesome-XYZ repos on github
- fiatjaf 10y ago
  Despite some of the famoust ones being of great utility, most Awesome-XYZ lists are just "everything that mentions this topic slightly", and so there needs to be better curation there too. Or perhaps a curation of Awesome-XYZ lists.

jklinger410 10y ago

If the problem is worth solving, from a monetary standpoint, then sharing is actually more important than building. I know that's heresy here on hacker news but I am an internet marketer and I have not seen the "if you build it they will come" mentality work very often. In most cases it's "if they want it you should build it."

cableshaft 10y ago
I once worked for a client that was so certain they were going to get millions of users within three weeks of launching their mobile app with nothing more than about $100 in Facebook ads marketing. That didn't work out too well for him. I also don't agree with the 'Field of Dreams' marketing strategy. I've seen it fail too many times.
jsprogrammer 10y ago
Doesn't "If they want it you should build it" already assume "if you build it they will come"? If you don't think they will come, why are you doing it?
- jacobolus 10y ago
  The key point here is that you need to have contact/communication with the “they” (either they already contacted you, or you need to put a lot of work into marketing to them). Otherwise “they” are going to ignore you.
- douche 10y ago
  Because somebody has offered you a fat stack of cash to do it? My company does all kinds of shit that we wouldn't necessarily ever think to do if we were dogfooding it for ourselves, but customers have requests, and once in a while, they're even good ideas that are worth building into the product. The best is when they agree to pay extra for that custom development.
icebraining 10y ago
I know that's heresy here on hacker news I don't think we're visiting the same HN.

pascalxus 10y ago

This is a good point, especially about getting over your own ego and fear of rejection. I've shared your post on my twitter. And, btw, if your looking to find others to share with on Twitter, try out http://www.find70.com/?t=ha http://www.find70.com/?t=ha It's the most advanced Twitter Profile Search.

HillaryBriss 10y ago

> If you’re a big picture person unwilling to grind out the gritty details on your project, you might as well just forget the whole damn thing — no one is going to stick around if you don’t. yes. in a corporate context, i've see this same thing happen in a research group which was very "vision driven." the prevailing belief (at the top) was that the group could just implement a bare bones, buggy, semi-documented version of the visionary's idea and simply "hand off" the whole project to another group which could then "realize value" from it. but it never worked out that way. the receiving groups didn't want to spend the time learning about it, setting it up, working around bugs and deficiencies and asking the research group questions about their vision-implementation. in short, the receiving groups never believed in the vision group's implementation enough to invest their time and attention.

fillskills 10y ago

Sharing is so hard. Fear of criticism is so high. Being open and even looking up for critical criticism is important for a product to evolve. Even the iPhone opened up to apps on feedback at launch. Posts like these are very crucial to help people like me get over that bump. I have to say also that I am in love with the website oldgeekjobs. Its so well done.

johnwheeler 10y ago
Thank you! I'm trying to keep it loading under 300ms--speed and simplicity as features. I love that you say you're in love with it.
- adamqureshi 10y ago
  This client asked me to build a job board. I was thinking of using a theme. BUT dang when i saw the UI for OGJ i was curious, would you opensource the Front end? They are in the UK niche market. Figured i'd ask. ;-)
- fillskills 10y ago
  Sure, I just sent three friends the link. Hope they get jobs using the site.

dfabulich 10y ago

I don't get it. Reddit explicitly forbids self-promotion. https://www.reddit.com/wiki/selfpromotion https://www.reddit.com/wiki/selfpromotion I understand their policies, but I'm running a business. I have time enough to share my work on Reddit, but I don't have time to be an active contributor to Reddit, submitting links from a variety of sources, just so I can occasionally post my own links and get no clicks on them. The only self-promomtion alternative is posting a sponsored headline. Doing that every time I want to share my own stuff is just throwing away money.

pjlegato 10y ago
Moreover, most people either run ad blockers that hide the sponsored headlines, or else have simply learned to ignore them as they scan the page visually. I believe what OP is doing -- what all successful self-promoters on Reddit do -- is ignore the "no self-promotion" policy, but avoid getting punished for it by posting on very niche subreddits where a significant percentage of people are actually interested in the product and so "upvote" rather than "report".
mattthebaker 10y ago
Reddit is owned by a mass media conglomerate. A significant portion of everything on the site is native advertising. Self promotion would interfere with what they are really pushing and undermine their influence. The smaller communities exist as goodwill to make the high traffic portions seem more authentic. Using sponsored headlines makes you look even worse than posting unfortunately. You have to be an insider to get the native placement I guess. Just watch for the next big hollywood movie to come out and random disguised content x to magically bubble up and plaster the front page.
- anondon 10y ago
  > The smaller communities exist as goodwill to make the high traffic portions seem more authentic. What makes you think smaller communities exist out of goodwill? People are allowed to create subreddits, and whoever is interested joins the subreddit and engages (or just lurks). It has nothing to do with goodwill. It's fascinating how you spun your narrative to make it seem like "Reddit is owned by a mass media conglomerate" is an evil thing.

arbuge 10y ago

It seems what the author is actually recommding goes beyond just sharing and is actually open sourcing a project's code. Not saying that's necessarily a bad idea, but on the other hand I'm not sure it's always guaranteed to be the best course of action either. I do endorse the viewpoint of sharing updates on a project's progress with the intended audience as often as possible, including when those updates could sometimes be rather minor.

mezod 10y ago

This was a well timed reading for me. Been battling with showing an idea in the last 2 months and the interest has been minimal. People will say it's great and won't even sign up. I guess everyone is too busy with their life. Is at this point where you keep reconsidering if this project is worth the time you've put in it, and you might have to put in it. So, don't concede.

rhizome 10y ago
I'm in a similar position, working on an app idea that I've decided to open-source. If it catches on I can create a hosting service for it.

mattbgates 10y ago

I actually have the philosophy: "Build it for yourself, share with others." Everything I have done, I have always just built it because I have needed it and found use for it. I have then shared it with others. In a way, it is totally selfish, but I'm not disappointed if no one uses it because I use it! Why waste my time developing something I would never use? If other people use it, great! If not, I still find it useful! My first PHP project showed me this philosophy was true and fortunately, hundreds of people are actually using it. https://mypost.io/ https://mypost.io/

RachelF 10y ago

Very true - building a great product is only half the story. You also have to market it, something us geeks are normally not that good at. Part of the reason for Linux's failure on the desktop is that is lacks salesmen to push it.

patrickyeon 10y ago

> If your posts don’t get traction, HackerNews allows a small number of reposts spaced out over time — you’re not spamming (so long as you’re not spamming). Interesting to watch. This article has been posted by the same user twice already in the last week, with a different title, and got no traction either time. It's hard sometimes to figure out when what you're offering isn't wanted, and when you just hit the perfect storm that stopped you from getting the attention you deserve. I'm not calling johnwheeler out on this, clearly he's eventually hit the right nerve. But, well, it's a line to walk: taking the hint that some content doesn't resonate with an audience vs. needing the effort to make them realize it should resonate.

prawn 10y ago
I posted it also and it went nowhere. Not being in the US, I find timezones can work against stories I think are interesting and post.

kenrick95 10y ago

In short: "Do things, tell people" http://carl.flax.ie/dothingstellpeople.html http://carl.flax.ie/dothingstellpeople.html

tones411 10y ago

What happens if you share it, but haven't built it, and don't have very much time to build it, but someone else does, and they like the idea and build it first?

bashinator 10y ago
Hopefully you helped them out enough to be a principal stakeholder.
Axsuul 10y ago
This rarely happens. It's a moot point. Potential customers are 99.9% of the time too busy or don't have the resources to execute on a solution.

ilaksh 10y ago

I share quite a bit of what I make or think. It almost always is rewarded with indifference or mild to extreme hostility. The best I can hope for if I am lucky is a tepid level of upvotes (perhaps one or two dozen) and maybe one comment. But I continue to post links and comments on reddit and Hacker News no matter how much hate or indifference I receive. Sometimes I doubt that I should bother. But I do anyway.

golergka 10y ago

It makes a lot of sense. However, being a proficient software engineer is correlated with being introverted, and for an introvert it's much easier and more enjoyable to tinker and build something in solitude than sharing it with others. So, even while sharing itself would take only five minutes vs a few hours to implement another feature, it often requires much more effort and energy.