16 ms·

What frustrates me the most is that Apple never admits a mistake. I'm never going to buy an iPhone without a headphone jack, but reinstating the jack on a futu

by UVB-76 10y ago

What frustrates me the most is that Apple never admits a mistake. I'm never going to buy an iPhone without a headphone jack, but reinstating the jack on a future model would be admitting they made a mistake with the iPhone 7. Likewise, with the new MacBook Pros, they are not going to release an update in a year's time that doesn't sacrifice ports and performance and battery life for size and weight, because doing so would be admitting a mistake. Nor are they going to dramatically cut the prices, such that they are actually affordable for someone, because doing so would be admitting a mistake.

pavel_lishin 10y ago
What about the changes that bluedino talks about? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12836747 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12836747 > [The Macbook Air] didn't become popular until they added a second USB port and SD card reader, added a higher resolution screen, fixed the battery life issues, fixed the horribly slow performance, and reduced the price big-time.
- mathw 10y ago
  They did that while keeping it thin and light though, which is the entire reason for the Macbook Air to exist - or at least, it was, until the even thinner revised Macbook turned up. Which will, I'm pretty sure, gain a second USB C port just as soon as they figure out how to fit it in.
usefulcat 10y ago
They will change if it hurts their bottom line enough. Only question is how much is "enough".
smoser 10y ago
I can think of one instance. After Apple released the 3rd gen iPod Shuffle (gumstick) with no buttons they said at the release of the 4th gen iPod Shuffle event: "But users clearly like the buttons". So then the next gen had buttons just like the 2nd gen.
logfromblammo 10y ago
Sounds to me like Apple needs to get married for a few years. That'll fix its problem right quick. Give it long enough, and it'll even be admitting to making big mistakes with Windows 10 telemetry data reporting.
elicash 10y ago
I would be willing to bet that within a decade you HAPPILY buy a phone without a headphone jack, whether that be an Android or iPhone. They're not going backwards because they think they're right, not because they think they're wrong but don't want to admit it. And the reason they aren't cutting prices is likely because they're more profitable with prices as they are, not because they're afraid of admitting a mistake.
- swiley 10y ago
  I don't "happily" buy phones now and I doubt most people do. Most phones are this bizarre compromise between the political wills of some corporation (or designer) and the needs of the user.
  - rsync 10y ago
    I very happily bought the Neptune Pine[1] which is a full featured telephone the size of a watch (I removed the watchband and threw it away). Love it. [1] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/neptune/neptune-pine-smartwatch-reinvented https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/neptune/neptune-pine-sm...
    - hollander 10y ago
      It's sold with short sleeves.
    - dghughes 10y ago
      You've become Derek Zoolander. http://i.imgur.com/eOXfo95.jpg http://i.imgur.com/eOXfo95.jpg
  - glhaynes 10y ago
    I feel like every time I see somebody with a new phone they're excited about it and want to show it off. And those that don't have a new phone grumble about how they still have to wait another year before they can upgrade.
    - 10y ago
acomjean 10y ago
Oh they do admit mistakes.. They just don't say it: Steve Jobs on why the iPod color doesn't have video said something to the effect of "nobody want to watch video on a tiny screen". a generation or 2 later the iPod (classic style) can play video. You can totally make do with html/javascript apps on the iPhone. Not long after there is an SDK/app store. cut and paste on iOS: It took a couple years but here is our version that is world beating. That round mouse they included with the original iMac didn't last long. I think a lot of projects were killed (Newton, Pipin, iPod, the motorola phone that used iTunes.) that just didn't work out. Not to mention 'ping' (social media for iTunes) and the cloud based infrastructure. I think the problem is Steve really liked the mac, and you could see that during his demos he was a power user and understood the product better.
- erichocean 10y ago
  > nobody needs cut and paste Said no one, ever, including Apple with the original iPhone.
  - acomjean 10y ago
    I checked on it, Apple didn't say it, but it wasn't added as a feature to the device for a couple years. I edited the comment to reflect that.
- dexterdog 10y ago
  You're forgetting about the phablet market. Apple insisted that the puny iphones were the prefect size for all people. I bailed for a Note2 and never looked back.
  - xj9 10y ago
    I wish people made more puny phones that work with my small hands. I'm really happy with iPhone SE, but I don't have high hopes that there will be a refresh.
- scottmf 10y ago
  I don't think they ever said copy/paste was unnecessary, although it mostly was in iOS 1.
jimbokun 10y ago
"Likewise, with the new MacBook Pros, they are not going to release an update in a year's time that doesn't sacrifice ports and performance and battery life for size and weight, because doing so would be admitting a mistake." I know this has been litigated to death in the original thread, but I think the 4 USB-C ports implicitly admits the MacBook with only a single USB-C port was a mistake. I think obsessing about having specific legacy ports is short sighted, and pushing forward with new connection technologies fits well with Apple's history of innovation. Having ports capable of being every thing from power connector to video display to high speed disk connector to mouse or keyboard port offers great flexibility and will seem like an obvious choice very soon. I think the claimed battery life still fairs well against similarly spec'd PCs? Size and weight are super important characteristics for many users. Not sure sacrificing these attributes would appeal to most laptop consumers. "Nor are they going to dramatically cut the prices, such that they are actually affordable for someone, because doing so would be admitting a mistake." It's only a mistake if their overall profits would be higher by cutting prices. Now, the sacrifice I don't understand at all is capping RAM at 16GB. Makes the MacBook Pro seem like a very low end machine compared to the competition, and will almost certainly shorten its useful lifespan, especially for professional user.
- denzil_correa 10y ago
  > Now, the sacrifice I don't understand at all is capping RAM at 16GB. Apparently, the lack of a higher capacity RAM was due to the performance/energy ratio. https://twitter.com/DanFrakes/status/791754757404626944 https://twitter.com/DanFrakes/status/791754757404626944
- igravious 10y ago
  > Now, the sacrifice I don't understand at all is capping RAM at 16GB. Totally agreed. The laptop I'm writing this on has 8GB and Firefox happily gobbles most of it. The server I recently built has 16GB which already feels very constrained. My next laptop is going to have 32GB for sure. If Apple don't have a 32GB Macbook Pro my next laptop ain't going to be from Apple. Oh. And it's fares well, no?
- vi4m 10y ago
  SSD in Macbook Pro is crazy fast. So fast that finally, after many years, we can think about "replacing" RAM with it. LPDDR3 RAM speed = 17 GB/sec, SSD read - 3 GB/sec. As much as it sounds crazy, i believe, SSD will eventually replace big and inefficient RAM's (which consume 6 W of power for each 16 GB slot)
eatbitseveryday 10y ago
> Apple never admits a mistake. Not sure what you call "admission" but they did screw up their Maps application and apologized for it[1]. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/sep/28/apple-maps-tim-cook-apology https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/sep/28/apple-map...
Alex3917 10y ago
> Nor are they going to dramatically cut the prices, such that they are actually affordable for someone For the average developer the MBP amortizes out to somewhere around one day of salary per year, out of the ~251 annual work days, even less if you keep it more than four years. Is there any other industry with lower overhead costs?
- ksk 10y ago
  That would be fine if the components actually were expensive. Most people would avoid lining the pockets of the executives with their hard earned money if they had a choice.
marricks 10y ago
The prices of the MBP aren't even high historically adjusted for inflation. The always "raise" prices on model redesign, and taper them down on refresh. This reddit post has a pretty illustrative chart, https://m.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/59uyqw/all_13_and_15_macbook_pro_prices_over_the_last_10/ https://m.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/59uyqw/all_13_and_15_m... Everyone is acting like Apple is extorting people or being unconscionable because they can't have 32 gigs of ram (no one else can at any small laptop size, Intel's chipset is the limitation), or the prices are extreme when they're really just right in line with inflation...
denzil_correa 10y ago
> What frustrates me the most is that Apple never admits a mistake. Do take a look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr_KxouI8Zs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr_KxouI8Zs
dgregd 10y ago
> What frustrates me the most is that Apple never admits a mistake In corporate politics that would be a suicide. Only Jobs was powerful enough to make mistakes. Anyway it is shocking what Apple does now. During Jobs Apple removed product features only used by laggards. Now Apple removes the features used even by pragmatists and early adopters[1]. Do you known how many people moved exclusively to wireless headphones and TH3? Another surprising thing is ignoring the professionals. They are in minority and it is hard to see them on sales charts. But they are opinion leaders. Many people overpay for Apple products because they want to look as real professionals. Majority don't care which laptop is the thinnest, they use products used by opinion leadres. With current trend, in 5 years Apple brand might be associated with rich bozos buying gold phones. Just look at the Mercedes S vs Tesla Models S sales in last 2 years. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Chasm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Chasm
- smitherfield 10y ago
  > In corporate politics that would be a suicide. Only Jobs was powerful enough to make mistakes. To wit: an insignificant change (dropping skeuomorphic UI) was coincident with Scott Forstall being canned. > Many people overpay for Apple products because they want to look as real professionals. Majority don't care which laptop is the thinnest, they use products used by opinion leadres. I used to think this way, until I went through 3 PC laptops in 2 years. Macs are worth every penny of the premium Apple commands, and more. That said, to keep me as a customer they are going to have to do a better job convincing me they aren't planning to discontinue the Mac lineup. And they'll have to offer a more convincing spec bump over my 2014 15" rMBP, which remains borderline-overkill for my needs.
  - Grishnakh 10y ago
    >I used to think this way, until I went through 3 PC laptops in 2 years. Macs are worth every penny of the premium Apple commands, and more. Maybe you should stop shopping for cheap, consumer-grade crap and get a real laptop like a Thinkpad or Latitude.
    - 10y ago
hackermailman 10y ago
No escape key on the new Macbook Pro either.
- shawndumas 10y ago
  What, specifically, are you using your ESC key for? (Not a challenge, just curiosity.)
  - hackermailman 10y ago
    VIM :)
    - shawndumas 10y ago
      Ah, we'll... can't you just use ctrl+[ then?
- WildUtah 10y ago
  MacBook Escape, which will be the most popular model by far, has all the hardware escape keys any user wants.
rayiner 10y ago
That's not really true. E.g the first Macbook Air had a very small battery and only a single USB port. The third gen released 18 months later had two USB ports, a much larger battery, and an SD card slot.
hbosch 10y ago
I'm trying to recall the Antennagate scenario with the iPhone 4, which forced Apple to hand out bumper cases for free. Did they officially claim responsibility for that design flaw?
- undefacct 10y ago
  Nah man, you're holding your phone wrong.
grey-area 10y ago
The reactions here to recent Apple products remind me of slashdot's infamous - "no wireless, less space than a nomad". Like the original USB on the iMac (which also caused uproar), USB-C is significantly better than the previous mess of competing standards. The iPhone should have been usb-c too but that's a whole other debate. Like the original MacBook Air (which was panned for performance), these new computers will be used by many for serious work, they are not fatally flawed or underpowered. Like serial ports, analogue audio ports have had their day, USB has more than enough bandwidth. You might disagree with these choices and compromises, but it's simply hubris to imagine HN denizens are in sync with the majority, or even ahead of it, they very rarely are.
mandeepj 10y ago
> What frustrates me the most is that Apple never admits a mistake. Apple does. At least with Maps fiasco, Tim Cook apologized publicly.
mavelikara 10y ago
They switched to x86 after years of publicly touting the benefits of PPC (all the while working on the switch project in secret). I think you are attributing a corporation too much human-like emotions.
evo_9 10y ago
Yeah because Google or GM or Sony or Audi all come out regularly and admit their mistakes. Honestly do you really expect any company to do that? Also as mentioned in the article - Apple charges a premium to, some would say, wisely cash-in on early adopters; over the life of the product its price drops. If you want an affordable Apple product - just like any other company - don't buy the very latest, newest model of any of their stuff.
- kuschku 10y ago
  > Honestly do you really expect any company to do that? Yes? Many companies do that, especially small to medium businesses. Multinationals are the only exception.
snowwrestler 10y ago
> What frustrates me the most is that Apple never admits a mistake. Really? No one remembers the very public apology from Tim Cook about their Maps roll out? http://www.apple.com/ca/letter-from-tim-cook-on-maps/ http://www.apple.com/ca/letter-from-tim-cook-on-maps/
- TillE 10y ago
  That's an apology for poor execution, not a mistake as in making the wrong choice.
  - JustSomeNobody 10y ago
    It's still an apology. You're adding constraints the OP never had.
Dotnaught 10y ago
"Never" is a bit of an overstatement. There was an apology for Apple Maps. I think better way to put it is that Apple doesn't engage in a genuine way with customers. It communicates with favored individuals in the press or chosen customers via email, with the expectation that the email from Tim Cook or Phil Schiller will serve to get the word out. Compare the number of Google employees making public statements through blogs with the number of Apple employees who do so. There's very little acknowledgement of public input, as if anything the public had to say about Apple products doesn't matter because Apple knows better.
wklauss 10y ago
> What frustrates me the most is that Apple never admits a mistake. They have backtracked from decisions made, several times, and admitted to mistakes too. Apple Maps is a good example. MobileMe, the return of buttons to the iPod shuffle, price cut on iPhone... same. The problem is that what you or I think is a mistake, it might not be one in the eyes of Apple. A lot of the frustration I see these days can be summed up as "Apple no longer is making a product that I like, therefore it is making products that nobody likes". Well, maybe. Time will tell. But I think they have a very clear vision about how they want their computers to look and feel (same for iPhones) and they are heading there full-speed. For some customers it will be a deal breaker, for others it might be what they need to jump ship and buy a Mac or upgrade from a Macbook Air to a more profitable Macbook Pro.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- dashoffset 10y ago
  What frustrates me the most is that Apple no longer is making a product that I like but no one else is. Every single laptop model in the market lacks at least one feature that's essential to me.
  - wklauss 10y ago
    Well, ask yourself what could be the reason. When you hear about post-PC and how the computer market is changing, THIS is exactly what it means. Traditional computers and laptops are going to become more expensive, sell in less quantities and be very, very focused on some specific needs. For companies like Apple, Microsoft, Dell, etc... this will translate into much simpler product lines that will update less frequently.
hyperhopper 10y ago
They did once. One of the earlier iPhones boasted about how its smaller screen size was "the perfect screen size" due to the size of your fingers and how you needed to be able to reach both top corners. Obviously they made bigger screens since then and ignored that they ever said those things.
- phyrex 10y ago
  And god dammit they were right back then!
Someone 10y ago
"What frustrates me the most is that Apple never admits a mistake." In a country as lawsuit happy as the USA, would any decent legal departement allow a company to admit a mistake? And if these machines do not sell, I would expect they will cut prices or price the next version (which, then, may come out fairly soon) lower (it wouldn't surprise me if their roadmap already includes a version with a Skylake CPU and DDR4 memory at the current price point, while keeping the existing models around at lower prices)
optimuspaul 10y ago
I don't understand how those things are mistakes. You can easily make up for the missing jacks and ports with dongles. But you could easily argue that it's a mistake to keep those jacks and ports to support a shrinking base of users that still require those jacks an ports. I haven't used the headphone jack on my phone in a very long time, it's a backup if anything, but mostly just a place that collects lint.
CN7R 10y ago
I'm not sure if it's really Apple's fault at this point. Over the summer, two people that I know went out and bought MacBook Airs -- even though its specs are severely outdated for its price. As long as people continue to buy their uninnovative products, Apple will continue to never admit a mistake.

by UVB-76 10y ago

pavel_lishin 10y ago

What about the changes that bluedino talks about? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12836747 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12836747 > [The Macbook Air] didn't become popular until they added a second USB port and SD card reader, added a higher resolution screen, fixed the battery life issues, fixed the horribly slow performance, and reduced the price big-time.

mathw 10y ago
They did that while keeping it thin and light though, which is the entire reason for the Macbook Air to exist - or at least, it was, until the even thinner revised Macbook turned up. Which will, I'm pretty sure, gain a second USB C port just as soon as they figure out how to fit it in.

usefulcat 10y ago

They will change if it hurts their bottom line enough. Only question is how much is "enough".

smoser 10y ago

I can think of one instance. After Apple released the 3rd gen iPod Shuffle (gumstick) with no buttons they said at the release of the 4th gen iPod Shuffle event: "But users clearly like the buttons". So then the next gen had buttons just like the 2nd gen.

logfromblammo 10y ago

Sounds to me like Apple needs to get married for a few years. That'll fix its problem right quick. Give it long enough, and it'll even be admitting to making big mistakes with Windows 10 telemetry data reporting.

elicash 10y ago

I would be willing to bet that within a decade you HAPPILY buy a phone without a headphone jack, whether that be an Android or iPhone. They're not going backwards because they think they're right, not because they think they're wrong but don't want to admit it. And the reason they aren't cutting prices is likely because they're more profitable with prices as they are, not because they're afraid of admitting a mistake.

swiley 10y ago
I don't "happily" buy phones now and I doubt most people do. Most phones are this bizarre compromise between the political wills of some corporation (or designer) and the needs of the user.
- rsync 10y ago
  I very happily bought the Neptune Pine[1] which is a full featured telephone the size of a watch (I removed the watchband and threw it away). Love it. [1] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/neptune/neptune-pine-smartwatch-reinvented https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/neptune/neptune-pine-sm...
  - hollander 10y ago
    It's sold with short sleeves.
  - dghughes 10y ago
    You've become Derek Zoolander. http://i.imgur.com/eOXfo95.jpg http://i.imgur.com/eOXfo95.jpg
- glhaynes 10y ago
  I feel like every time I see somebody with a new phone they're excited about it and want to show it off. And those that don't have a new phone grumble about how they still have to wait another year before they can upgrade.
  - 10y ago

acomjean 10y ago

Oh they do admit mistakes.. They just don't say it: Steve Jobs on why the iPod color doesn't have video said something to the effect of "nobody want to watch video on a tiny screen". a generation or 2 later the iPod (classic style) can play video. You can totally make do with html/javascript apps on the iPhone. Not long after there is an SDK/app store. cut and paste on iOS: It took a couple years but here is our version that is world beating. That round mouse they included with the original iMac didn't last long. I think a lot of projects were killed (Newton, Pipin, iPod, the motorola phone that used iTunes.) that just didn't work out. Not to mention 'ping' (social media for iTunes) and the cloud based infrastructure. I think the problem is Steve really liked the mac, and you could see that during his demos he was a power user and understood the product better.

erichocean 10y ago
> nobody needs cut and paste Said no one, ever, including Apple with the original iPhone.
- acomjean 10y ago
  I checked on it, Apple didn't say it, but it wasn't added as a feature to the device for a couple years. I edited the comment to reflect that.
dexterdog 10y ago
You're forgetting about the phablet market. Apple insisted that the puny iphones were the prefect size for all people. I bailed for a Note2 and never looked back.
- xj9 10y ago
  I wish people made more puny phones that work with my small hands. I'm really happy with iPhone SE, but I don't have high hopes that there will be a refresh.
scottmf 10y ago
I don't think they ever said copy/paste was unnecessary, although it mostly was in iOS 1.

jimbokun 10y ago

"Likewise, with the new MacBook Pros, they are not going to release an update in a year's time that doesn't sacrifice ports and performance and battery life for size and weight, because doing so would be admitting a mistake." I know this has been litigated to death in the original thread, but I think the 4 USB-C ports implicitly admits the MacBook with only a single USB-C port was a mistake. I think obsessing about having specific legacy ports is short sighted, and pushing forward with new connection technologies fits well with Apple's history of innovation. Having ports capable of being every thing from power connector to video display to high speed disk connector to mouse or keyboard port offers great flexibility and will seem like an obvious choice very soon. I think the claimed battery life still fairs well against similarly spec'd PCs? Size and weight are super important characteristics for many users. Not sure sacrificing these attributes would appeal to most laptop consumers. "Nor are they going to dramatically cut the prices, such that they are actually affordable for someone, because doing so would be admitting a mistake." It's only a mistake if their overall profits would be higher by cutting prices. Now, the sacrifice I don't understand at all is capping RAM at 16GB. Makes the MacBook Pro seem like a very low end machine compared to the competition, and will almost certainly shorten its useful lifespan, especially for professional user.

denzil_correa 10y ago
> Now, the sacrifice I don't understand at all is capping RAM at 16GB. Apparently, the lack of a higher capacity RAM was due to the performance/energy ratio. https://twitter.com/DanFrakes/status/791754757404626944 https://twitter.com/DanFrakes/status/791754757404626944
igravious 10y ago
> Now, the sacrifice I don't understand at all is capping RAM at 16GB. Totally agreed. The laptop I'm writing this on has 8GB and Firefox happily gobbles most of it. The server I recently built has 16GB which already feels very constrained. My next laptop is going to have 32GB for sure. If Apple don't have a 32GB Macbook Pro my next laptop ain't going to be from Apple. Oh. And it's fares well, no?
vi4m 10y ago
SSD in Macbook Pro is crazy fast. So fast that finally, after many years, we can think about "replacing" RAM with it. LPDDR3 RAM speed = 17 GB/sec, SSD read - 3 GB/sec. As much as it sounds crazy, i believe, SSD will eventually replace big and inefficient RAM's (which consume 6 W of power for each 16 GB slot)

eatbitseveryday 10y ago

> Apple never admits a mistake. Not sure what you call "admission" but they did screw up their Maps application and apologized for it[1]. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/sep/28/apple-maps-tim-cook-apology https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/sep/28/apple-map...

Alex3917 10y ago

> Nor are they going to dramatically cut the prices, such that they are actually affordable for someone For the average developer the MBP amortizes out to somewhere around one day of salary per year, out of the ~251 annual work days, even less if you keep it more than four years. Is there any other industry with lower overhead costs?

ksk 10y ago
That would be fine if the components actually were expensive. Most people would avoid lining the pockets of the executives with their hard earned money if they had a choice.

marricks 10y ago

The prices of the MBP aren't even high historically adjusted for inflation. The always "raise" prices on model redesign, and taper them down on refresh. This reddit post has a pretty illustrative chart, https://m.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/59uyqw/all_13_and_15_macbook_pro_prices_over_the_last_10/ https://m.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/59uyqw/all_13_and_15_m... Everyone is acting like Apple is extorting people or being unconscionable because they can't have 32 gigs of ram (no one else can at any small laptop size, Intel's chipset is the limitation), or the prices are extreme when they're really just right in line with inflation...

denzil_correa 10y ago

> What frustrates me the most is that Apple never admits a mistake. Do take a look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr_KxouI8Zs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr_KxouI8Zs

dgregd 10y ago

> What frustrates me the most is that Apple never admits a mistake In corporate politics that would be a suicide. Only Jobs was powerful enough to make mistakes. Anyway it is shocking what Apple does now. During Jobs Apple removed product features only used by laggards. Now Apple removes the features used even by pragmatists and early adopters[1]. Do you known how many people moved exclusively to wireless headphones and TH3? Another surprising thing is ignoring the professionals. They are in minority and it is hard to see them on sales charts. But they are opinion leaders. Many people overpay for Apple products because they want to look as real professionals. Majority don't care which laptop is the thinnest, they use products used by opinion leadres. With current trend, in 5 years Apple brand might be associated with rich bozos buying gold phones. Just look at the Mercedes S vs Tesla Models S sales in last 2 years. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Chasm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Chasm

smitherfield 10y ago
> In corporate politics that would be a suicide. Only Jobs was powerful enough to make mistakes. To wit: an insignificant change (dropping skeuomorphic UI) was coincident with Scott Forstall being canned. > Many people overpay for Apple products because they want to look as real professionals. Majority don't care which laptop is the thinnest, they use products used by opinion leadres. I used to think this way, until I went through 3 PC laptops in 2 years. Macs are worth every penny of the premium Apple commands, and more. That said, to keep me as a customer they are going to have to do a better job convincing me they aren't planning to discontinue the Mac lineup. And they'll have to offer a more convincing spec bump over my 2014 15" rMBP, which remains borderline-overkill for my needs.
- Grishnakh 10y ago
  >I used to think this way, until I went through 3 PC laptops in 2 years. Macs are worth every penny of the premium Apple commands, and more. Maybe you should stop shopping for cheap, consumer-grade crap and get a real laptop like a Thinkpad or Latitude.
  - 10y ago

hackermailman 10y ago

No escape key on the new Macbook Pro either.

shawndumas 10y ago
What, specifically, are you using your ESC key for? (Not a challenge, just curiosity.)
- hackermailman 10y ago
  VIM :)
  - shawndumas 10y ago
    Ah, we'll... can't you just use ctrl+[ then?
WildUtah 10y ago
MacBook Escape, which will be the most popular model by far, has all the hardware escape keys any user wants.

rayiner 10y ago

That's not really true. E.g the first Macbook Air had a very small battery and only a single USB port. The third gen released 18 months later had two USB ports, a much larger battery, and an SD card slot.

hbosch 10y ago

I'm trying to recall the Antennagate scenario with the iPhone 4, which forced Apple to hand out bumper cases for free. Did they officially claim responsibility for that design flaw?

undefacct 10y ago
Nah man, you're holding your phone wrong.

grey-area 10y ago

The reactions here to recent Apple products remind me of slashdot's infamous - "no wireless, less space than a nomad". Like the original USB on the iMac (which also caused uproar), USB-C is significantly better than the previous mess of competing standards. The iPhone should have been usb-c too but that's a whole other debate. Like the original MacBook Air (which was panned for performance), these new computers will be used by many for serious work, they are not fatally flawed or underpowered. Like serial ports, analogue audio ports have had their day, USB has more than enough bandwidth. You might disagree with these choices and compromises, but it's simply hubris to imagine HN denizens are in sync with the majority, or even ahead of it, they very rarely are.

mandeepj 10y ago

> What frustrates me the most is that Apple never admits a mistake. Apple does. At least with Maps fiasco, Tim Cook apologized publicly.

mavelikara 10y ago

They switched to x86 after years of publicly touting the benefits of PPC (all the while working on the switch project in secret). I think you are attributing a corporation too much human-like emotions.

evo_9 10y ago

Yeah because Google or GM or Sony or Audi all come out regularly and admit their mistakes. Honestly do you really expect any company to do that? Also as mentioned in the article - Apple charges a premium to, some would say, wisely cash-in on early adopters; over the life of the product its price drops. If you want an affordable Apple product - just like any other company - don't buy the very latest, newest model of any of their stuff.

kuschku 10y ago
> Honestly do you really expect any company to do that? Yes? Many companies do that, especially small to medium businesses. Multinationals are the only exception.

snowwrestler 10y ago

> What frustrates me the most is that Apple never admits a mistake. Really? No one remembers the very public apology from Tim Cook about their Maps roll out? http://www.apple.com/ca/letter-from-tim-cook-on-maps/ http://www.apple.com/ca/letter-from-tim-cook-on-maps/

TillE 10y ago
That's an apology for poor execution, not a mistake as in making the wrong choice.
- JustSomeNobody 10y ago
  It's still an apology. You're adding constraints the OP never had.

Dotnaught 10y ago

"Never" is a bit of an overstatement. There was an apology for Apple Maps. I think better way to put it is that Apple doesn't engage in a genuine way with customers. It communicates with favored individuals in the press or chosen customers via email, with the expectation that the email from Tim Cook or Phil Schiller will serve to get the word out. Compare the number of Google employees making public statements through blogs with the number of Apple employees who do so. There's very little acknowledgement of public input, as if anything the public had to say about Apple products doesn't matter because Apple knows better.

wklauss 10y ago

> What frustrates me the most is that Apple never admits a mistake. They have backtracked from decisions made, several times, and admitted to mistakes too. Apple Maps is a good example. MobileMe, the return of buttons to the iPod shuffle, price cut on iPhone... same. The problem is that what you or I think is a mistake, it might not be one in the eyes of Apple. A lot of the frustration I see these days can be summed up as "Apple no longer is making a product that I like, therefore it is making products that nobody likes". Well, maybe. Time will tell. But I think they have a very clear vision about how they want their computers to look and feel (same for iPhones) and they are heading there full-speed. For some customers it will be a deal breaker, for others it might be what they need to jump ship and buy a Mac or upgrade from a Macbook Air to a more profitable Macbook Pro.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
dashoffset 10y ago
What frustrates me the most is that Apple no longer is making a product that I like but no one else is. Every single laptop model in the market lacks at least one feature that's essential to me.
- wklauss 10y ago
  Well, ask yourself what could be the reason. When you hear about post-PC and how the computer market is changing, THIS is exactly what it means. Traditional computers and laptops are going to become more expensive, sell in less quantities and be very, very focused on some specific needs. For companies like Apple, Microsoft, Dell, etc... this will translate into much simpler product lines that will update less frequently.

hyperhopper 10y ago

They did once. One of the earlier iPhones boasted about how its smaller screen size was "the perfect screen size" due to the size of your fingers and how you needed to be able to reach both top corners. Obviously they made bigger screens since then and ignored that they ever said those things.

phyrex 10y ago
And god dammit they were right back then!

Someone 10y ago

"What frustrates me the most is that Apple never admits a mistake." In a country as lawsuit happy as the USA, would any decent legal departement allow a company to admit a mistake? And if these machines do not sell, I would expect they will cut prices or price the next version (which, then, may come out fairly soon) lower (it wouldn't surprise me if their roadmap already includes a version with a Skylake CPU and DDR4 memory at the current price point, while keeping the existing models around at lower prices)

optimuspaul 10y ago

I don't understand how those things are mistakes. You can easily make up for the missing jacks and ports with dongles. But you could easily argue that it's a mistake to keep those jacks and ports to support a shrinking base of users that still require those jacks an ports. I haven't used the headphone jack on my phone in a very long time, it's a backup if anything, but mostly just a place that collects lint.

CN7R 10y ago

I'm not sure if it's really Apple's fault at this point. Over the summer, two people that I know went out and bought MacBook Airs -- even though its specs are severely outdated for its price. As long as people continue to buy their uninnovative products, Apple will continue to never admit a mistake.