10 ms·

I agree that the mac platform seems to have been neglected but Tim Cook isn't stupid, he knows that without developers the iPad isn't going to grow how he wants

I agree that the mac platform seems to have been neglected but Tim Cook isn't stupid, he knows that without developers the iPad isn't going to grow how he wants so I don't think this is the end of the Mac. I think Tim Cook has ignored the Mac in favour of his favourite projects but in the meantime Schiller and Federighi have been making sure the Mac is in his periphery and fighting for resources. I've chosen to view this update as the start of the uptick where we go back to regular updates (perhaps with a longer period than historically) and more exciting things to come. I think the Mac Pro is over and the iMac will replace it with TB3 enabling external devices to take the workload of what Apple don't want to handle internally but other than that I hope we will see a strong line up in a couple of years and look back at this time as the trough. That or Apple is over and I need to work out what computer I will use in 15 years as I can't stand Windows and Linux is a nightmare. Also, I think the TouchBar looks pretty damn cool and I'll be ordering one as soon as I can.

IBM 10y ago
>I think Tim Cook has ignored the Mac in favour of his favourite projects but in the meantime Schiller and Federighi have been making sure the Mac is in his periphery and fighting for resources. Ah yes you heard the latest episode of ATP as well. Maybe if Marco repeats it enough everyone will believe it, which is kind of funny since this story [1] is on the front page right now. I basically feel like I'm being gaslighted after reading all these hot takes about Apple and Macs. [1] http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20161026-how-liars-create-the-illusion-of-truth http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20161026-how-liars-create-th...
- simonbarker87 10y ago
  No one is lying here, it's speculation so not sure how that article relates. Marco never claimed it was an original thought, I'm pretty sure Gruber said the same a few months back after WWDC. Either way, we can choose to see this update positively or we can be negative about it and stew on the fact that we feel ignored by Apple - the later always works out well.
  - IBM 10y ago
    The speculation doesn't even make sense because Apple is structured as a functional organization, not around product lines. Schiller and Federighi aren't in charge of Macs so they don't have to fight Cook for resources. When Marco claims (without any evidence) that Schiller or Federighi are the champions for the Mac internally, he's projecting his values on to them because he's created some narrative in his head about various executives.
    - simonbarker87 10y ago
      Ah I see you've also read the stratechery article about apple's structure :-) I think it's pretty clear from the WWDC Gruber interview panel that the execs who love the Mac are Schiller and Federighi but you're right that it's speculation. Either way, we can be negative and whinge or take this update as a glimmer of hope - because whatever we choose to do Apple aren't paying us any attention on HN!
      - jarjoura 10y ago
        They all read these comments silently, and I have a few friends who feel burned by all the negative press. Some have spent a really long time and many hours on this latest laptop. There's definitely a camp inside the company who believe windows should take the pros back as they were burned by the whole Final Cut Pro rewrite fiasco. There's also a camp who want to see the MacPro continue on and understand brand mindshare is the most important thing for Apple.
        walterbell 10y ago
        > Windows should take the pros back Did you mean one Apple camp doesn't want "pros", as defined by video editing? Is that because those users have already left, or are not worth keeping?
        apozem 10y ago
        I'm sorry your friends within Apple feel burned. Really, I am. I like my Apple products and would like to buy more... But however hard your friends at Apple worked on the new Macs, they're not the Macs we wanted. We professional users didn't want to lose the SD card slot. We didn't want that awful butterfly fake keyboard. We didn't want to lose MagSafe. Apple tends to lead from the front and force change, and that's fine. Sometimes you have to pull the floppy drives out of our clutches. But when this many people are telling you you're on the wrong path... You may in fact be on the wrong path.
swozey 10y ago
> I've chosen to view this update as the start of the uptick where we go back to regular updates (perhaps with a longer period than historically) and more exciting things to come. I'm just curious as to what brought you to that conclusion? Was something said? The last few years I've been sitting around kicking dirt waiting for an OSX convertible type of machine, I know there's never been any talk of it, but I figured if anyone could make it correctly it'd be Apple. I've given up at this point. It almost feels like I was suffering from Stockholm syndrome looking back at it.
- IBM 10y ago
  Why were you sitting around waiting for a convertible when they've said on the record multiple times they were never going to make OSX touch based? All the way from Steve Jobs to the CNET interview with Schiller, Federighi and Ive.
  - swozey 10y ago
    Hey now, Apple also said nobody wants a stylus and that no one's going to buy a "big" phone!
    - Zoon 10y ago
      Stylus for main input ≠ Drawing stylus. One is overshadowed by multi-touch while the other is needed by professionals among others.
- simonbarker87 10y ago
  Pure hopeful speculation based on listening to Gruber, Marco (ATP) and Leo Laporte
matwood 10y ago
> I've chosen to view this update as the start of the uptick where we go back to regular updates (perhaps with a longer period than historically) and more exciting things to come. I want to think this, but after years they release a TouchBar and I still can't get 32GB of ram. /sigh I think that people get too caught up in wanting revolutionary changes. Many would have been much happier with new MBPs being released regularly with Intel's updates and standard more/better RAM, screen, battery life.
- threeseed 10y ago
  Intel is responsible for the lack of RAM not Apple.
  - mcintyre1994 10y ago
    How come everyone else is at 32GB now?
    - pryce 10y ago
      Several sources such as [1] are reporting that the 16gb RAM limit was chosen "to preserve battery life". I lend little credence to that idea, given that what people are asking for is at most an optional upgrade for some minority fraction of customers that prioritize 32gb RAM over other considerations. [1] http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/28/13460496/apple-macbook-pro-16gb-ram-battery-life-phil-schiller http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/28/13460496/apple-macbook-pr...
  - rys 10y ago
    Not true: http://ark.intel.com/m/products/95451/Intel-Core-i7-7500U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_50-GHz-#@product/specifications http://ark.intel.com/m/products/95451/Intel-Core-i7-7500U-Pr...
  - x0x0 10y ago
    You can buy a dell xps 15 today that comes with: 3840 x 2160 display / 1tb pcie solid state disk / nvidia gtx 960m (crucial for developing cuda programs and prototyping deep learning on your laptop) / 32g ram. For $2340 (ten percent off coupon at the top of the page). I'm not sure if this link will work: http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productdetails/xps-15-9550-laptop/dncwx1609h http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productdetails/xps-15-9550-la... And this thing comes with regular usb ports and an hdmi port instead of usb-c nonsense so I don't have to immediately drop $250 in dongles just to keep the capabilities I already have. My problem with a macbook is because you simply can't upgrade anything, you have to prepay for all the disk you want to use for the next 3-4 years. Add them screwing us on magsafe, and I would need $400 plus in extra chargers and dongles (hdmi/dvi/vga so I can connect to whatever random projector / tv I run into), etc. As some snark on twitter said, we should call our new giant kit of cables to make macbooks usable a courage of cables. I just can't believe these people have the giant balls to roll out a $3k+ laptop that you can't connect an iphone 7 or iphone 7 headphones to without purchasing $50 in adapters. I'm sitting here hoping linux gets usable fast enough that I'll have something to transition to. I need a unix-ish box that was working power management/audio/the ability to plug into whatever random projector or tv I encounter and assume it will work. edit: just to be clear, my complaint really isn't about pricing of macbooks. I mean, cheaper is better, but I'm comfortable spending $3k on a laptop. I just need a laptop that has 32g or more of ram, and that connects to my peripherals without hundreds of dollars of dongles that I have to carry around. That laptop better last 3-4 years though. If Dell can profitably sell the above for $2400, apple should be able to very profitably sell the same specs for $3200.

IBM 10y ago

>I think Tim Cook has ignored the Mac in favour of his favourite projects but in the meantime Schiller and Federighi have been making sure the Mac is in his periphery and fighting for resources. Ah yes you heard the latest episode of ATP as well. Maybe if Marco repeats it enough everyone will believe it, which is kind of funny since this story [1] is on the front page right now. I basically feel like I'm being gaslighted after reading all these hot takes about Apple and Macs. [1] http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20161026-how-liars-create-the-illusion-of-truth http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20161026-how-liars-create-th...

simonbarker87 10y ago
No one is lying here, it's speculation so not sure how that article relates. Marco never claimed it was an original thought, I'm pretty sure Gruber said the same a few months back after WWDC. Either way, we can choose to see this update positively or we can be negative about it and stew on the fact that we feel ignored by Apple - the later always works out well.
- IBM 10y ago
  The speculation doesn't even make sense because Apple is structured as a functional organization, not around product lines. Schiller and Federighi aren't in charge of Macs so they don't have to fight Cook for resources. When Marco claims (without any evidence) that Schiller or Federighi are the champions for the Mac internally, he's projecting his values on to them because he's created some narrative in his head about various executives.
  - simonbarker87 10y ago
    Ah I see you've also read the stratechery article about apple's structure :-) I think it's pretty clear from the WWDC Gruber interview panel that the execs who love the Mac are Schiller and Federighi but you're right that it's speculation. Either way, we can be negative and whinge or take this update as a glimmer of hope - because whatever we choose to do Apple aren't paying us any attention on HN!
    - jarjoura 10y ago
      They all read these comments silently, and I have a few friends who feel burned by all the negative press. Some have spent a really long time and many hours on this latest laptop. There's definitely a camp inside the company who believe windows should take the pros back as they were burned by the whole Final Cut Pro rewrite fiasco. There's also a camp who want to see the MacPro continue on and understand brand mindshare is the most important thing for Apple.
      - walterbell 10y ago
        > Windows should take the pros back Did you mean one Apple camp doesn't want "pros", as defined by video editing? Is that because those users have already left, or are not worth keeping?
      - apozem 10y ago
        I'm sorry your friends within Apple feel burned. Really, I am. I like my Apple products and would like to buy more... But however hard your friends at Apple worked on the new Macs, they're not the Macs we wanted. We professional users didn't want to lose the SD card slot. We didn't want that awful butterfly fake keyboard. We didn't want to lose MagSafe. Apple tends to lead from the front and force change, and that's fine. Sometimes you have to pull the floppy drives out of our clutches. But when this many people are telling you you're on the wrong path... You may in fact be on the wrong path.

swozey 10y ago

> I've chosen to view this update as the start of the uptick where we go back to regular updates (perhaps with a longer period than historically) and more exciting things to come. I'm just curious as to what brought you to that conclusion? Was something said? The last few years I've been sitting around kicking dirt waiting for an OSX convertible type of machine, I know there's never been any talk of it, but I figured if anyone could make it correctly it'd be Apple. I've given up at this point. It almost feels like I was suffering from Stockholm syndrome looking back at it.

IBM 10y ago
Why were you sitting around waiting for a convertible when they've said on the record multiple times they were never going to make OSX touch based? All the way from Steve Jobs to the CNET interview with Schiller, Federighi and Ive.
- swozey 10y ago
  Hey now, Apple also said nobody wants a stylus and that no one's going to buy a "big" phone!
  - Zoon 10y ago
    Stylus for main input ≠ Drawing stylus. One is overshadowed by multi-touch while the other is needed by professionals among others.
simonbarker87 10y ago
Pure hopeful speculation based on listening to Gruber, Marco (ATP) and Leo Laporte

matwood 10y ago

> I've chosen to view this update as the start of the uptick where we go back to regular updates (perhaps with a longer period than historically) and more exciting things to come. I want to think this, but after years they release a TouchBar and I still can't get 32GB of ram. /sigh I think that people get too caught up in wanting revolutionary changes. Many would have been much happier with new MBPs being released regularly with Intel's updates and standard more/better RAM, screen, battery life.

threeseed 10y ago
Intel is responsible for the lack of RAM not Apple.
- mcintyre1994 10y ago
  How come everyone else is at 32GB now?
  - pryce 10y ago
    Several sources such as [1] are reporting that the 16gb RAM limit was chosen "to preserve battery life". I lend little credence to that idea, given that what people are asking for is at most an optional upgrade for some minority fraction of customers that prioritize 32gb RAM over other considerations. [1] http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/28/13460496/apple-macbook-pro-16gb-ram-battery-life-phil-schiller http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/28/13460496/apple-macbook-pr...
- rys 10y ago
  Not true: http://ark.intel.com/m/products/95451/Intel-Core-i7-7500U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_50-GHz-#@product/specifications http://ark.intel.com/m/products/95451/Intel-Core-i7-7500U-Pr...
- x0x0 10y ago
  You can buy a dell xps 15 today that comes with: 3840 x 2160 display / 1tb pcie solid state disk / nvidia gtx 960m (crucial for developing cuda programs and prototyping deep learning on your laptop) / 32g ram. For $2340 (ten percent off coupon at the top of the page). I'm not sure if this link will work: http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productdetails/xps-15-9550-laptop/dncwx1609h http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productdetails/xps-15-9550-la... And this thing comes with regular usb ports and an hdmi port instead of usb-c nonsense so I don't have to immediately drop $250 in dongles just to keep the capabilities I already have. My problem with a macbook is because you simply can't upgrade anything, you have to prepay for all the disk you want to use for the next 3-4 years. Add them screwing us on magsafe, and I would need $400 plus in extra chargers and dongles (hdmi/dvi/vga so I can connect to whatever random projector / tv I run into), etc. As some snark on twitter said, we should call our new giant kit of cables to make macbooks usable a courage of cables. I just can't believe these people have the giant balls to roll out a $3k+ laptop that you can't connect an iphone 7 or iphone 7 headphones to without purchasing $50 in adapters. I'm sitting here hoping linux gets usable fast enough that I'll have something to transition to. I need a unix-ish box that was working power management/audio/the ability to plug into whatever random projector or tv I encounter and assume it will work. edit: just to be clear, my complaint really isn't about pricing of macbooks. I mean, cheaper is better, but I'm comfortable spending $3k on a laptop. I just need a laptop that has 32g or more of ram, and that connects to my peripherals without hundreds of dollars of dongles that I have to carry around. That laptop better last 3-4 years though. If Dell can profitably sell the above for $2400, apple should be able to very profitably sell the same specs for $3200.