4 ms·

> peace of mind as a result of extensive fraud protection measures I don't want "peace of mind". I (a Canadian) want to be able to buy something online from a

by aianus 10y ago

> peace of mind as a result of extensive fraud protection measures I don't want "peace of mind". I (a Canadian) want to be able to buy something online from a US supplier and have it shipped to me in Thailand. This is just not possible with any kind of chargeback-enabling payment method. Just because you haven't been in a situation where the "fraud protection" is impacting your life (or your sales) doesn't mean those situations don't come up for others.

apetresc 10y ago
Sure, but it also doesn't mean we're under any pressure to revolutionise a centuries-old system just to enable those others' extremely niche use case.
- ConSeannery 10y ago
  This is not "niche." Every person living outside of the states has this problem. Next time you need something even remotely specific or customized, head on over to amazon.ca and see if you can find the item you're looking for. Then when you can't, think of other countries that aren't directly beside the most consumer friendly country on earth.
  - wott 10y ago
    > Every person living outside of the states has this problem. WTF are you saying?
    - nomat 10y ago
      Cross border electronic payments are a pain because many US companies won't ship internationally because merchants are the ones that are liable in cases of fraud.
- lambda 10y ago
  For a very large number of people, these aren't "extremely niche use cases." Something more comparable to Bitcoin than regular banking would be Western Union; they make 5 billion dollars a year in revenue transferring money. And they charge vastly higher rates than the Bitcoin network does, charging in the 5-10% range for for transactions, which is a pretty hefty overhead.
  - FireBeyond 10y ago
    Not the same since it's on the mining, not the transactions, but here we have the founders taking 20% of the value of the network for the first four years. That's a decent overhead, too.
drivingmenuts 10y ago
> I don't want "peace of mind". I (a Canadian) want to be able to buy something online from a US supplier and have it shipped to me in Thailand. So does anyone else with access to your information. How sure are you that your account info is absolutely secure enough to prevent that AND will remain so for the lifetime of your use of a specific cryptocurrency?
- aianus 10y ago
  > How sure are you that your account info is absolutely secure enough to prevent that AND will remain so for the lifetime of your use of a specific cryptocurrency? I'm not, and it's irrelevant because I only have a tiny fraction of my net worth in easily-accessible Bitcoin at any given time. I'm not advocating replacing bank accounts with Bitcoin, I'm just showing that Bitcoin does solve real problems that traditional payment processors cannot or will not solve.
dangerlibrary 10y ago
Perhaps I am naive. My understanding is that in general, debit cards do not enable charge backs. Further, I've never had a fraud alert on my card (even when traveling internationally) that I couldn't resolve with a phone call to the bank. Does a debit card not solve your problem?
- aianus 10y ago
  It's not the bank that's blocking me, it's the merchant. Since merchants are the ones on the hook for card-not-present fraud, they refuse to ship items anywhere but the address registered with the credit card. I don't know which debit cards you're referring to but I'm almost 100% sure that the cardholders are not liable for fraud. Meaning someone else along the chain is liable and is monitoring/blocking transactions to reduce that liability.

by aianus 10y ago

apetresc 10y ago

Sure, but it also doesn't mean we're under any pressure to revolutionise a centuries-old system just to enable those others' extremely niche use case.

ConSeannery 10y ago
This is not "niche." Every person living outside of the states has this problem. Next time you need something even remotely specific or customized, head on over to amazon.ca and see if you can find the item you're looking for. Then when you can't, think of other countries that aren't directly beside the most consumer friendly country on earth.
- wott 10y ago
  > Every person living outside of the states has this problem. WTF are you saying?
  - nomat 10y ago
    Cross border electronic payments are a pain because many US companies won't ship internationally because merchants are the ones that are liable in cases of fraud.
lambda 10y ago
For a very large number of people, these aren't "extremely niche use cases." Something more comparable to Bitcoin than regular banking would be Western Union; they make 5 billion dollars a year in revenue transferring money. And they charge vastly higher rates than the Bitcoin network does, charging in the 5-10% range for for transactions, which is a pretty hefty overhead.
- FireBeyond 10y ago
  Not the same since it's on the mining, not the transactions, but here we have the founders taking 20% of the value of the network for the first four years. That's a decent overhead, too.

drivingmenuts 10y ago

> I don't want "peace of mind". I (a Canadian) want to be able to buy something online from a US supplier and have it shipped to me in Thailand. So does anyone else with access to your information. How sure are you that your account info is absolutely secure enough to prevent that AND will remain so for the lifetime of your use of a specific cryptocurrency?

aianus 10y ago
> How sure are you that your account info is absolutely secure enough to prevent that AND will remain so for the lifetime of your use of a specific cryptocurrency? I'm not, and it's irrelevant because I only have a tiny fraction of my net worth in easily-accessible Bitcoin at any given time. I'm not advocating replacing bank accounts with Bitcoin, I'm just showing that Bitcoin does solve real problems that traditional payment processors cannot or will not solve.

dangerlibrary 10y ago

Perhaps I am naive. My understanding is that in general, debit cards do not enable charge backs. Further, I've never had a fraud alert on my card (even when traveling internationally) that I couldn't resolve with a phone call to the bank. Does a debit card not solve your problem?

aianus 10y ago
It's not the bank that's blocking me, it's the merchant. Since merchants are the ones on the hook for card-not-present fraud, they refuse to ship items anywhere but the address registered with the credit card. I don't know which debit cards you're referring to but I'm almost 100% sure that the cardholders are not liable for fraud. Meaning someone else along the chain is liable and is monitoring/blocking transactions to reduce that liability.