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I guess one great thing about Soylent threads is bringing all the urban myths around nutrition out into the open. People in this thread believe everything from

I guess one great thing about Soylent threads is bringing all the urban myths around nutrition out into the open. People in this thread believe everything from "people on liquid diets don't poop!" to "if you put some berries in a blender and drink it, you're getting entirely different nutrition from eating the berries raw!" That second one is a bit of a strawman, but it shows how absurd claims that crushing or grinding foods ruins the nutrition sound. But the main one I want to call out is "Ensure is well-researched", which seems to have reached self-perpetuating status. Go ahead, type terms related to Ensure into PubMed or Google Scholar. I would cite a particular one if any of them turned up anything. The most prominent independent examination of Ensure's nutritional value (that I've found) came when Abbott was forced to settle with the FTC in the late 90s for falsely advertising Ensure as doctor-recommended and useful to drink with an already healthy diet.[0] If you're not interested in reading it, the FTC's main complaints were over false claims about doctor recommendations and the fact that Ensure's advertising compared a single can to a multivitamin. [0] https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/cases/1997/06/c3745cmp.pdf https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/cases/1997...

andy_ppp 10y ago
The blending idea I've not seen any research to back up what you have said. Surface area of absorbing fructose could logically affect your body (think Higher GI), as could enzymes in saliva. So while it's the same stuff you might well absorb it in worse ways for your body...
- lifebeyondfife 10y ago
  Do you tend to swallow raspberries whole, or chew them first?
  - andy_ppp 10y ago
    Are you saying chewing is as effective as blending? Are you saying saliva doesn't have enzymes in it that might affect things? Point to research or I'll assume you are just making things up! Just to be clear I'm not saying I'm right I'm saying I doubt we have proved it...
    - LoSboccacc 10y ago
      I spit in the blender, of course.
      - StRoy 10y ago
        Actually that was how some forms of alcohol used to be made, for example sake in Japan. > The first sake, kuchikami no sake, (口噛みの酒) or "mouth-chewed sake," was made by people chewing rice, chestnuts, millet, and acorns and spitting the mixture into a tub, where the enzymes from saliva converted the starches to sugar. This sweet mixture was then combined with freshly cooked grain and allowed to naturally ferment. It might seem like a disgusting practice to contemporary eyes, but it does show the power of human saliva and how one should not discount the process of chewing food. Drinking a liquid vs actively chewing, imbibing the chewed food with your saliva, definitely does not lead to the same thing.
  - sbov 10y ago
    From my experience, when people vomit after eating it comes up pretty recognizable.
- resfirestar 10y ago
  As far as the specific example of blended fruit, I seem to be on solid ground.[0][1] However, starches do change properties depending on form, which is probably similar to what you were getting at with fructose absorption.[2] I was mostly complaining about claims that micronutrients lose bioavailibility when not provided in their "natural" form. [0] https://www.quora.com/Does-blending-reduce-the-nutritional-content-of-fruits-and-vegetables https://www.quora.com/Does-blending-reduce-the-nutritional-c... [1] http://www.livestrong.com/article/548978-does-fruit-lose-its-nutritional-value-when-its-blended/ http://www.livestrong.com/article/548978-does-fruit-lose-its... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3046297 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3046297
NumberCruncher 10y ago
Everything I do not understand in detail is just an "urban myth".
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  With nutrition you can safely assume most things you hear are bullshit.
  - NumberCruncher 10y ago
    I do not think so. The statement that keto is the best diet even if it causes rectal bleeding sounds reasonable to me [source: HN]. I go now and take a fat-shake. Cheers!
    - TeMPOraL 10y ago
      I was on keto. It worked. No rectal bleeding. I also didn't die of various stuff I was supposed to. I'm close to getting jailed though, because I fear that at some point I'll break and punch the next person who tells me that artificial sweeteners cause cancer.
      - harpiaharpyja 10y ago
        They can cause neuronal damage through excitotoxicity [0][1]. I've never heard of keto before, but I would be wary of aspartame and MSG. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7854587 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7854587 [1] http://americannutritionassociation.org/newsletter/review-excitotoxins-taste-kills http://americannutritionassociation.org/newsletter/review-ex...
        DanBC 10y ago
        The American Nutrition Association is not a credible source. And they're using a discredited source - he's promoted several outright conspiracy theories. (I mean, fucking chemtrails even).
joeyspn 10y ago
> "if you put some berries in a blender and drink it, you're getting entirely different nutrition from eating the berries raw!" That second one is a bit of a strawman, but it shows how absurd claims that crushing or grinding foods ruins the nutrition sound. Well, for many foods this is 100% true. For instance, it's not the same eating raw garlic, than freshly smashed garlic (<10mins), than garlic smashed 20 minutes ago... because allicin (main active compound of garlic) is unstable and quickly degrades into another compounds... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allicin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allicin
- tomp 10y ago
  But does that change the nutritional value of garlic (as opposed to changing just the taste)?
  - tirant 10y ago
    We cannot assume that the environment is innocuous. Our atmosphere is full of nitrogen, oxygen and other chemical compounds able to produce a reaction and modify molecules in any food.
  - joeyspn 10y ago
    If you lose allicin you lose some nice properties (antimicrobial, antiinflammatory, etc): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10594976 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10594976
    - sambe 10y ago
      But those properties may not be relevant to you when consuming garlic anyway. The vast majority of such studies are showing the properties in isolation (petri-dish). People love to extrapolate that to "garlic prevents colds", but it doesn't follow. I'm not going to pay to read the full article in this case but you at least have to be careful about this.
      - joeyspn 10y ago
cfstras 10y ago
Analogous to the fact that it is very hard to study the nutrition and long-term effects of Soylent on a big scale, with a diverse set of people, the same seems to be true for "normal" food. How do you even _define_ a "regular diet"? The exact diet varies from person to person, even from week to week! Even though we've had "normal diets" for way longer, it is impossible to study those effectively without first closely defining the diet in question (which is effectively the same as feeding Soylent, minus the powderization and conservation). Following that, it should be much easier to closely examine the effects of Soylent on people than it is to study any other non-standardized form of nutrition. And yet every "fact" about Soylent you read is purely anectodal.
iaskwhy 10y ago
I thought the biggest problem with blending stuff is the quantity I'll be having compared to having just one unit of something. For example, I wouldn't eat 3 oranges in a row but I would definitely drink them if blended.
- resfirestar 10y ago
  >I wouldn't eat 3 oranges in a row I would! I tend to go overboard on fruit if I don't stop myself. Apples, oranges, blueberries, cantaloupe, all so delicious...Not always pleasant for digestion and probably a bit of sugar rush, but do you know of any more serious health effects?
  - orbifold 10y ago
    Eating too much sugar has serious long term health effects.
    - dkersten 10y ago
      Ignoring the effect on your teeth, it was my understanding that the fibre in fruit helped counteract many of the negative effects of fructose (at least, keeping your insulin in check). I don't have any proof on hand, so perhaps I'm wrong.
      - e12e 10y ago
        There's afaik a rather big difference between freshly squeezed orange juice, and fruit juices that have been pasteurised. I'm not sure there's that big a difference between eating an orange and drinking the juice - other than the simple fact that the orange will contain "more stuff" that is "not sugar" than the juice - hence it'll be easier to increase sugar intake by drinking, say a litre of orange juice a day, and eating some food - rather than eating six(?) large oranges and being reasonably full.
        dkersten 10y ago
colordrops 10y ago
Curious what are your thoughts on GMOs.
- robotbikes 10y ago
  Wouldn't it be ironic if one of the GMO ingredients in Soylent was causing the kind of allergic reaction that organic activists are always warning about thus proving the hazardness of GMOs. This is sheer speculation but had to share the thought.
  - kuschku 10y ago
    Not unlikely, most GMOs are modified to increase resistance of them for pesticides, or for them to produce pesticides themselves. And these increased pesticides often also cause several reactions in humans.
md2be 10y ago
I take it you didn't study food science. It's called oxidation, look it up. Also, some foods are made more bioavailable when soaking and blending, and sprouting, cashews.

andy_ppp 10y ago

The blending idea I've not seen any research to back up what you have said. Surface area of absorbing fructose could logically affect your body (think Higher GI), as could enzymes in saliva. So while it's the same stuff you might well absorb it in worse ways for your body...

lifebeyondfife 10y ago
Do you tend to swallow raspberries whole, or chew them first?
- andy_ppp 10y ago
  Are you saying chewing is as effective as blending? Are you saying saliva doesn't have enzymes in it that might affect things? Point to research or I'll assume you are just making things up! Just to be clear I'm not saying I'm right I'm saying I doubt we have proved it...
  - LoSboccacc 10y ago
    I spit in the blender, of course.
    - StRoy 10y ago
      Actually that was how some forms of alcohol used to be made, for example sake in Japan. > The first sake, kuchikami no sake, (口噛みの酒) or "mouth-chewed sake," was made by people chewing rice, chestnuts, millet, and acorns and spitting the mixture into a tub, where the enzymes from saliva converted the starches to sugar. This sweet mixture was then combined with freshly cooked grain and allowed to naturally ferment. It might seem like a disgusting practice to contemporary eyes, but it does show the power of human saliva and how one should not discount the process of chewing food. Drinking a liquid vs actively chewing, imbibing the chewed food with your saliva, definitely does not lead to the same thing.
- sbov 10y ago
  From my experience, when people vomit after eating it comes up pretty recognizable.
resfirestar 10y ago
As far as the specific example of blended fruit, I seem to be on solid ground.[0][1] However, starches do change properties depending on form, which is probably similar to what you were getting at with fructose absorption.[2] I was mostly complaining about claims that micronutrients lose bioavailibility when not provided in their "natural" form. [0] https://www.quora.com/Does-blending-reduce-the-nutritional-content-of-fruits-and-vegetables https://www.quora.com/Does-blending-reduce-the-nutritional-c... [1] http://www.livestrong.com/article/548978-does-fruit-lose-its-nutritional-value-when-its-blended/ http://www.livestrong.com/article/548978-does-fruit-lose-its... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3046297 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3046297

NumberCruncher 10y ago

Everything I do not understand in detail is just an "urban myth".

TeMPOraL 10y ago
With nutrition you can safely assume most things you hear are bullshit.
- NumberCruncher 10y ago
  I do not think so. The statement that keto is the best diet even if it causes rectal bleeding sounds reasonable to me [source: HN]. I go now and take a fat-shake. Cheers!
  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    I was on keto. It worked. No rectal bleeding. I also didn't die of various stuff I was supposed to. I'm close to getting jailed though, because I fear that at some point I'll break and punch the next person who tells me that artificial sweeteners cause cancer.
    - harpiaharpyja 10y ago
      They can cause neuronal damage through excitotoxicity [0][1]. I've never heard of keto before, but I would be wary of aspartame and MSG. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7854587 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7854587 [1] http://americannutritionassociation.org/newsletter/review-excitotoxins-taste-kills http://americannutritionassociation.org/newsletter/review-ex...
      - DanBC 10y ago
        The American Nutrition Association is not a credible source. And they're using a discredited source - he's promoted several outright conspiracy theories. (I mean, fucking chemtrails even).

joeyspn 10y ago

> "if you put some berries in a blender and drink it, you're getting entirely different nutrition from eating the berries raw!" That second one is a bit of a strawman, but it shows how absurd claims that crushing or grinding foods ruins the nutrition sound. Well, for many foods this is 100% true. For instance, it's not the same eating raw garlic, than freshly smashed garlic (<10mins), than garlic smashed 20 minutes ago... because allicin (main active compound of garlic) is unstable and quickly degrades into another compounds... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allicin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allicin

tomp 10y ago
But does that change the nutritional value of garlic (as opposed to changing just the taste)?
- tirant 10y ago
  We cannot assume that the environment is innocuous. Our atmosphere is full of nitrogen, oxygen and other chemical compounds able to produce a reaction and modify molecules in any food.
- joeyspn 10y ago
  If you lose allicin you lose some nice properties (antimicrobial, antiinflammatory, etc): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10594976 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10594976
  - sambe 10y ago
    But those properties may not be relevant to you when consuming garlic anyway. The vast majority of such studies are showing the properties in isolation (petri-dish). People love to extrapolate that to "garlic prevents colds", but it doesn't follow. I'm not going to pay to read the full article in this case but you at least have to be careful about this.
    - joeyspn 10y ago

cfstras 10y ago

Analogous to the fact that it is very hard to study the nutrition and long-term effects of Soylent on a big scale, with a diverse set of people, the same seems to be true for "normal" food. How do you even _define_ a "regular diet"? The exact diet varies from person to person, even from week to week! Even though we've had "normal diets" for way longer, it is impossible to study those effectively without first closely defining the diet in question (which is effectively the same as feeding Soylent, minus the powderization and conservation). Following that, it should be much easier to closely examine the effects of Soylent on people than it is to study any other non-standardized form of nutrition. And yet every "fact" about Soylent you read is purely anectodal.

iaskwhy 10y ago

I thought the biggest problem with blending stuff is the quantity I'll be having compared to having just one unit of something. For example, I wouldn't eat 3 oranges in a row but I would definitely drink them if blended.

resfirestar 10y ago
>I wouldn't eat 3 oranges in a row I would! I tend to go overboard on fruit if I don't stop myself. Apples, oranges, blueberries, cantaloupe, all so delicious...Not always pleasant for digestion and probably a bit of sugar rush, but do you know of any more serious health effects?
- orbifold 10y ago
  Eating too much sugar has serious long term health effects.
  - dkersten 10y ago
    Ignoring the effect on your teeth, it was my understanding that the fibre in fruit helped counteract many of the negative effects of fructose (at least, keeping your insulin in check). I don't have any proof on hand, so perhaps I'm wrong.
    - e12e 10y ago
      There's afaik a rather big difference between freshly squeezed orange juice, and fruit juices that have been pasteurised. I'm not sure there's that big a difference between eating an orange and drinking the juice - other than the simple fact that the orange will contain "more stuff" that is "not sugar" than the juice - hence it'll be easier to increase sugar intake by drinking, say a litre of orange juice a day, and eating some food - rather than eating six(?) large oranges and being reasonably full.
      - dkersten 10y ago

colordrops 10y ago

Curious what are your thoughts on GMOs.

robotbikes 10y ago
Wouldn't it be ironic if one of the GMO ingredients in Soylent was causing the kind of allergic reaction that organic activists are always warning about thus proving the hazardness of GMOs. This is sheer speculation but had to share the thought.
- kuschku 10y ago
  Not unlikely, most GMOs are modified to increase resistance of them for pesticides, or for them to produce pesticides themselves. And these increased pesticides often also cause several reactions in humans.

md2be 10y ago

I take it you didn't study food science. It's called oxidation, look it up. Also, some foods are made more bioavailable when soaking and blending, and sprouting, cashews.