39 ms·

Apple, this time you made a mistake

126 points by andreash 10y ago

0x0 10y ago
A maxxed out MBP costs €5000, which is $5447.95. And you can't connect your iphone, your iphone headset, hdmi, magsafe, sd-card or usb. And you don't get tactile escape keys or function keys. Or Nvidia. Or even an OpenGL implementation from this decade! This show is over :(
- pavlov 10y ago
  Apple sells a USB-C to Lightning cable, so you don't need a dongle to connect an iPhone. The rest of your points stand though.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    A cable of rather limited uses is the moral equivalent of a dongle.
    - SysArchitect 10y ago
      Except that it increases utility. I can now bring a single charger that can charge my MacBook Pro and my iPhone. I just need a USB-C to USB-C cable and a USB-C to Lightning cable. Charge my laptop or charge my iPhone or charge both (use the laptop as a passthrough). It will reduce the amount of stuff I carry, I tend to carry just an iPhone charger while traveling in case I want to bring it with me where I don't bring my laptop, extra space in luggage and weight.
      - 0x0 10y ago
        Can you plug this particular cable into a wall adapter iOS charger? If not, then you still need two different cables depending on whether you want to charge from the wall or the mac.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
        SysArchitect 10y ago
        You can't plug it into the wall adapter iOS charger, but you can plug it into a USB-C charger that comes with the MBP.
      - maxerickson 10y ago
        Increases utility over what? If the ports all match, you can choose to carry 1 or 2 cables depending on whether you want to make 1 or 2 connections. Since the ports don't match, you need a cable for each type of connection you might want to make.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
  - 0x0 10y ago
    For €5000 you can't connect your state-of-the-art iPhone to your state-of-the-art Mac out of the box. You have to pay extra, and you have to carry around an awkward dongle adapter and hope you don't forget it! Fucking lol.
    - mcphage 10y ago
      > you have to carry around an awkward dongle adapter Huh? It's not a dongle, it's just a cable. You do need a cable to connect your phone to your laptop.
      - seba_dos1 10y ago
        But that's not a cable that everyone has everywhere. So many times around me poor iPhone owners couldn't charge their phones at parties because nobody had their kind of cable around, while for microUSB you've got plenty of helpful charger and powerbank owners. To be honest, lately owners of phones with USB-C were having the same problem, but I guess it's gonna change faster than with Lightning cables.
    - spott 10y ago
      It isn't a dongle adapter, it is a usb cable with usb-c on one side and lightning on the other.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - devopsproject 10y ago
    It is just another cable\dongle\adapter\hub we must buy again and again. These products should "just work" together.
    - Bud 10y ago
      Ok, great. Then let's all go back to 2001 and use 10Mbps first-generation USB for everything. Oops! It won't supply enough power, it's now FOUR THOUSAND times slower than modern interfaces, it can't drive monitors, etc. Maybe your idea isn't so great.
      - devopsproject 10y ago
        Have fun playing with your dongles
- masklinn 10y ago
  > A maxxed out MBP costs €5000 That's quite dishonest considering a fair bit of that is the 1700€ 2TB SSD (which is not an unfair price, that's about what Samsung announced for the 960 Pro) > which is $5447.95. Also dishonest, most people expect USD prices to be without tax, you're including the ~20% european VATs in that by converting back from tax-included euro prices.
  - 0x0 10y ago
    Fine, maxxed out except 1TB instead of 2TB SSD and the total is €4.039. The bump up/down from 2TB to 1TB is "only" €960. Also sales tax isn't dishonest. I have to pay it to buy the machine!! This is a ton more money than what maxxed out macbook pros were around 2013 in €, and to be honest the total package feels like a downgrade.
    - SysArchitect 10y ago
      US sales taxes vary depending on state. There is no direct comparison.
    - masklinn 10y ago
      > Also sales tax isn't dishonest. I didn't say sales tax was dishonest, I said converting back a tax included price into USD was, and explained why. Aside from US sales tax being much lower than european ones (as low as 0%) US prices are pretty much always displayed without taxes, so you're making the machine look 20% more expensive than it actually is as far as american viewers understand it. A fair quote would have been to provide the regular USD price ($4300 maxxed out, or $3500 for 1TB).
      - 0x0 10y ago
        Well if US sales taxes are as low as 0% then I think it IS a fair comparison. Feature-wise, it feels like the 2013 device is worth the 2016 price and the 2016 device is worth the 2013 price.
        10y ago
- sakopov 10y ago
  Not an Apple fan by any means but I've just gotten tired of the poor build quality of Windows laptops and terrible battery life year after year. So I've been patiently waiting to upgrade my 3-years-old XPS to a MBP. Heard that the price range will likely be fairly close to the old generation of MBP. Well, what i saw today is just too cost-prohibitive for very little reason. I'm now hoping that Surface Book or the new XPS are worth the money.
  - tmikaeld 10y ago
    I'm in the same boat. I've been lifting any virtual rock for any decent affordable development laptop that isn't two generations old with a bad CPU (Read Celeron or Atom). But there aren't any, there's only the 600€ range and up. Then comes Apple, which I've been waiting for - I have the Macbook Air and Macbook Pro. But for this price and with no 32GB RAM upgrade possibilities and 8GB RAM for 220€? No... Just NO. This is the last straw, I'm going to try Linux for the iftiest time.
    - slgeorge 10y ago
      > I'm going to try Linux for the iftiest time. When you do that please, please buy something where it's preloaded onto the system (e.g. Dell XPS) so that you get the same sort of hardware/software experience that you get from the integrated apple. It will cut out so much fiddling and possibilities of a terrible experience!
      - tmikaeld 10y ago
        Thanks for the advice, that's actually the exact modell i plan on getting. But I was unsure if it was a modern CPU, seemed dated? Or are the newer XPS also called XPS? The worst thing was that the linux version cost 2x more than the normal one here in Sweden...
        sakopov 10y ago
        I ended up purchasing Dell XPS 15 today. In terms of battery life, build quality and power there isn't much else besides it that compares to Macbook Pro (at least not until Surface Book 2 comes out but then it'll be horribly expensive too). I think what you're talking about is the Dell XPS developer edition. I'm not even sure if Dell sells them anymore. You might just get the Windows 10 Home Edition and throw a Linux distro on it. At least that's my plan.
- jobu 10y ago
  > *And you can't connect your iphone, your iphone headset, ... This my biggest issue with the MBP. WTF are they thinking here?! Why didn't the iPhone7 port get switched to USB-C from lightning if they knew the MBP was going to USB-C/TB3? The whole point of Apple products is that they work better the more of them you have.
malux85 10y ago
Can anybody recommend a good laptop to replace my current macbook - I would like 17inch screen, and runs Ubuntu ... bonus for NVidia GPU - I deep learn in the cloud but having a GPU to test on would be great. Anybody know of this mythical unicorn?
- treehau5 10y ago
  I don't know if you are being sarcastic because you exactly described the specs of this https://system76.com/laptops/kudu https://system76.com/laptops/kudu in either case I fell for it
  - malux85 10y ago
    Ah I should have mentioned > 1080p (but thanks for suggestion)
- basch 10y ago
  Thinkpad P70 http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/p-series/p70/?menu-id=thinkpad_p70 http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/p-series/p70/?... Precision 17 7000 Series (7710) http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-m7710-workstation/pd http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-m7710-workstatio... ZBook 17 ? http://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/zbook-17.html http://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/zbook-17.html take note that these all have Quadro cards, not their lower end GForce cards.
- neals 10y ago
  Typing this from my maxxed-out surface pro 4, in tablet mode, while I do sketching on the couch, after having done some pretty intense Visual Studio Typescript debugging. I would recommand this to anybody. <3
  - smilespray 10y ago
    Radical, dude.
  - masklinn 10y ago
neals 10y ago
I LOVE Apple products! I treasure Iphone and it's safe and fun ecosysten. I love the simplicity of OSX. I love the professional appearance of a Macbook Pro... as a user. Or as an observer even. Because professionally, I've been on Windows, Linux and Android for years. And with Windows where it's at now, I've never been more productive. Just can't seem to get that across to my Apple-friends and Apple-coworkers.
- jaxondu 10y ago
  Any recommendation for a MacBook Pro equivalent running Windows? One reason I'm stuck with Mac is the need to use it for iOS app development.
  - hougaard 10y ago
    All my iOS dev. is now done with Xamarin on Visual Studio on Windows with a headless Mac Mini sitting in the background.
  - Bud 10y ago
    Yes, it's called the MacBook Pro. It runs Windows, natively, just fine. In fact, PC World once ranked it as the best Windows laptop.
    - twblalock 10y ago
      That's probably going to change with the new touch bar.
      - Bud 10y ago
        Given the popularity of Macs for running Windows, I would not assume this. There's no reason why Microsoft can't write drivers for the Touch Bar.
    - jaxondu 10y ago
      I'm not sure if the new MacBook Pro's Touch Bar is usable under Windows.
ch4s3 10y ago
I'm pretty ambivalent about everything but the usb ports. I get they its an overloaded standard and probably needs a replacement, but its a lot to give up in the name of progress...
- tekklloneer 10y ago
  The hard fact is that there's still a LOT of usb devices out there. Even one USB port would greatly alleviate the pain. If they don't include a usbc->usb+hdmi adapter in the box, it's going to be extremely painful for users with workstations who find out that their peripherals don't work.
  - SysArchitect 10y ago
    No adapters in the box.
- extra88 10y ago
  That's what people said when the very first iMac replaced ADB and Mini-DIN8 with USB ports. This isn't even exactly replacing the USB standard, just the connector type. USB1/2/3 devices will still work, you just need a Type-A to Type-C adapter; much simpler than, say, Thunderbolt to FireWire. The best outcome will be a "rip off the Band-Aid" approach with everyone else adopting USB Type-C (or Thunderbolt 3) as quickly as possible.
tekklloneer 10y ago
While I appreciate USB-C, it's still too early to go USB-C only, especially on a "professional" laptop. And, the transition to lightning headphones is a glaring example of the left hand SOMEHOW not being aware of what the right hand is doing. Plus, the touch bar sucks. Compensating with indentations and force touch could have made it an amazing and useful tool.
- mikeash 10y ago
  That's how Apple does things. When they see something new that they want to push, they jump on it even if it seems premature. Before long, they're just ahead of the curve. 1998 seemed too early to go USB-only, but it turned out to be a great move. And that was a situation where you often needed all-new peripherals, versus this machine where you just need a cheap adapter or a new cable.
  - tekklloneer 10y ago
    I fully agree, but the situation two decades ago is extremely different today. Also, I wasn't clear but I was specifically thinking of the lack of HDMI/display port unless I missed that it has it (which is possible). I already have a laptop that lacks hdmi and has usb c, and i miss it on a regular basis. Carrying dongles really sucks.
    - mikeash 10y ago
      It doesn't have those, no. The adapters are apparently pretty simple, but you do need them.
- grzm 10y ago
  "it's still too early to go USB-C only" It does seem odd to have only one kind of port. That said, you can also look at it as "you only need one kind of port". No need to mix and match adapters. Just X to TB3. As for too early, it's a chicken-egg thing. Someone is going to be early to market, and the market needs pressure to make the change. "Compensating with indentations and force touch could have made it an amazing and useful tool." I agree that force touch would be great. I think this is an iteration thing that we'll see in the future. As for indentations, yeah, it would be nice to have something to know where one key ends and the next begins. It does limit flexibility though. And it's also a screen, not just a keyboard. Not sure how the indentations would work with the display.
striking 10y ago
> function keys, MagSafe, HDMI, SD Card AND the Escape key I'm an HDMI guy too, SD cards are great, and MagSafe has saved my bacon more than once. But the function keys are being transformed into something a bit more interactive and app-specific, and if you need Escape in a terminal emulator, Ctrl-] has been around just about forever. I think Apple's doing something new and interesting with function keys. (But I agree, I'm not sure I agree with their all-in strategy on Thunderbolt/USB-C either.)
- verandaguy 10y ago
  While it's nice that Unix systems have an alternative (^]), many people don't know about that, and you'd probably be hard pressed to find anyone who prefers it over just <Esc>.
  - striking 10y ago
    You can use it with both hands on the home row, though. Left pinkie down to Ctrl, right pinkie up to ]. You don't need to move your hand up or rotate at the wrist. So in a sense it's actually kind of an improvement.
- MBCook 10y ago
  > But I agree, I'm not sure I agree with their all-in strategy on Thunderbolt/USB-C either Same thing people said when they went all-in on USB 1.0. It will be rough for some people for a while but the new port has some obvious benefits. In two years everyone will take it for granted that most new laptops/desktops come with at least some USB C ports.
- fencepost 10y ago
  So does this mean that the Emacs folks have finally won the battle on Macs?
Osiris 10y ago
I agree. I have no plans on upgrading my MacBook Pro (2015). I'm very forgetful, so I know that I'd lose any adapter dongles due to the USB-C/Thunderbolt ports replacing everything else. Well, it makes it easy to save a few thousand dollars this year.
beaner 10y ago
I think there are a lot of legit complaints about the new announcements and lack of improvements, but this post seems pretty weak. Fn keys aren't really gone, they're just present in another form (the touch bar). The other complaint is just about ports. It's not so hard to have a dongle that has these ports, and just plugs into the new one. Sure, a little annoying, but it doesn't exactly kill your workflow.
- masklinn 10y ago
  > The other complaint is just about ports. It's not so hard to have a dongle that has these ports And the keikaku[0] is quite obviously to provide incentive for accessory manufacturers to build type-c native stuff, and eventually have an all-type-c ecosystem and little to no need for "dongles" (which incidentally should mostly be basic cables) [0] keikaku means plan
  - adrianN 10y ago
    It's nice that you're learning Japanese, but why not use "plan" instead of adding a footnote?
    - masklinn 10y ago
      It's a joke/dumb reference from the internets: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/just-according-to-keikaku http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/just-according-to-keikaku
  - RankingMember 10y ago
    I think they're screwing with the kwijibo[0] too much and will end up with a professional user base that won't be large enough in number for accessory manufacturers to care. [0] kwijibo means product
    - masklinn 10y ago
      > [0] kwijibo means product I'm on to your lies, boyo.
MBCook 10y ago
"I liked your products. You changed things. I'm stating as a fact they're worse without providing any evidence or opinions to back that up." This is a low quality post.
- dom0 10y ago
  I wager that most posts headlining something like "[Corporate Entity], this time you [past tense verb]" after an announcement of [Corporate Entity] are of relatively poor quality.
- Mithaldu 10y ago
  > This is a low quality post. Good demonstration.
gwbas1c 10y ago
Did they remove the USB port? That's pretty brain-dead stupid.
- masklinn 10y ago
  > Did they remove the USB port? No, they put 4 instead of the old 2, and they quadruple up as charging, video and high-speed interconnect.
  - jakebasile 10y ago
    And also made them incompatible with practically all existing USB devices.
    - Bud 10y ago
      And yet forwards-compatible with practically all USB devices that will be made going forward. In other words, they did what you must do in order to move forward to a new, superior standard which gives 40 Gbps performance plus power in AND out on all 4 ports.
      - jakebasile 10y ago
        I don't need 40Gbps to run my mouse, and I shouldn't have to spend more money on an already egregiously overpriced machine to get an adapter. I don't want another adapter to output to my monitor. I don't want another adapter to connect to ethernet. USB C doesn't need to be all or nothing. They could include 2 USB C and 2 USB A and solve half of these problems. Throw in a MiniDisplayPort or an HDMI and we're set.
        masklinn 10y ago
        > I don't want another adapter to connect to ethernet. You're about 4 years too late there. > USB C doesn't need to be all or nothing. It has to be if your ultimate goal is for it to become universal eventually. As long as legacy interfaces are available accessory manufacturers have little incentive to build type C devices as they can keep plugging away without, so they won't. > They could include 2 USB C and 2 USB A and solve half of these problems. Throw in a MiniDisplayPort or an HDMI and we're set. You're set, and they have to support these interfaces they don't want forever. Because don't be mistaken, that's what their endgame is, that's what Apple has been looking for since they removed the floppy drive and started moving "slow" IO to USB back in 1998.
tinbad 10y ago
I'm genuinely amazed every time there's an Apple keynote and people act this surprised. With every major new release Apple has been taking away legacy and pushing forward, often compromising compatibility.
- aikah 10y ago
  > pushing forward forward to what ? design over usability ? surely you understand why a lot of people are pissed off. The touch bar is a gimmick, the lack of inputs make the MBP only PRO in name, this isn't a "PRO" machine. This is just a Macbook air rebranded as Pro. But to understand that you need to be able to read through Apple's bullshit, which is hard for Apple fans that see the brand as part of their own identity.
SysArchitect 10y ago
As a professional software dev/system architect using MacBook Pro's, I am excited about the new MacBook Pro. I'll miss the SD card for my amateur photography, but I'll live. It's still got the 3.5mm for my headphones, with USB-C hopefully daisy chaining non Apple displays will finally become a reality, and thankfully my work has upgraded to using wireless technology for displaying screens in conference rooms (which works from OS X and Windows). The new context sensitive function bar is going to take some getting used to, but I have been using Caps lock for escape for years now and OS X just got native support for mapping that. Grabbed a USB-C to lightning cable while I was at it. Now I can just bring a single charger and charge either my Mac or my iPhone or both at the same time. I rarely use USB drives, so unfortunately I'll need a dongle for that, but it's not that big of a deal. --- I am more sad that there was no announcement for the Mac Pro/Mac Mini. Also no Apple display, instead handing that to LG, so it looks like Apple is pulling out of the desktop market (I wonder how long the iMac will last). --- Edit: There is one thing I will miss, and that is MagSafe. It has saved my laptop many a time in it's lifetime. I am hoping Apple builds a USB-C to MagSafe cable that provides the same functionality to save laptops from a tripping hazard.
- MBCook 10y ago
  I was kind of hoping for an iMac update too. Not anything important, but move it to USB-C so it's in line.
  - techtivist 10y ago
    Surface Studio perhaps? ;)
    - MBCook 10y ago
      It will be interesting to see if Apple decides to try to respond to that thing. It's pretty impressive in quite a few ways.
      - dogma1138 10y ago
        They most likely will just like they did with the iPad pro.
trackofalljades 10y ago
FFS, they didn't remove the F-keys, you can still have F-keys if you want...and they made all the ports do everything. They removed the card reader. Whiny posts by people who didn't even pay attention are more annoying than Apple.
- 0x0 10y ago
  But you can't FEEL them. So you can't use them without looking down at your keyboard. Which is a pretty horrible proposition for touch typists.
  - Bud 10y ago
    Touch typing doesn't involve the Escape key, really, which is the only key that's relevant here. For those who need it, Esc will be readily-mappable to a hardware key combo. Also, it's simply false that you can't use a Touch Bar key without looking down. It's just a simple motor skill like anything else. Very very slightly harder than having a hardware Esc key. Trivial.
    - 0x0 10y ago
      I don't know about you but I "touch-type" F6, F7, F8, F9, F10 all the time while single-step debugging. It looks like the Touch Bar can change to anything at any moment, such as "answer facetime call" so I wouldn't trust blindly touching it. And I don't have a spare physical button to map escape onto because I already use all the remaining buttons for their intended purpose, including caps-lock.
    - reustle 10y ago
      I use my volume keys without looking also, 10s of times per day.
  - r00fus 10y ago
    Uh, I have to look down to know where my F2 key is right now anyway. Also - external keyboards are still possible! I'm hopeful that the customization of TouchBar will have some perks that weren't quite made loud & clear in the preso.
intrasight 10y ago
If your a professional using your computer all day, then you shouldn't be using the crappy built-in keyboard or crappy built-in display in the first place. The Macbook is your computer - add the display and keyboard and mouse that make you productive.
techtivist 10y ago
I never thought I could move to a touch only phone because I do a lot of "proper" typing on my phone, which is why I stuck to my Blackberry until my first iPhone which was a 5 (yes that long). Which is to say, I don't think we will miss the tactile escape and function keys. And same goes for dedicated HDMI port and microsd card slot (seriously how often does one use the latter) Remember when apple got rid of the floppy drive and then the disk drive? Do we still complain about those? Headphone jack on iPhone is a different concern, since bluetooth headphones are still not as ubiquitous and having something else to charge a headache. But none of these concerns (except for maybe the absence of Magsafe) is really a dealbreaker.
oldmanjay 10y ago
I'm reminded of all the people who think saying they'll leave the US if a given person is elected president is actually meaningful
AndrewStephens 10y ago
What a whiney, content-free blog post. The author complains about removing the function keys, MagSafe, HDMI, SD Card and the escape key but doesn't give any examples of how they used those in the past or how those features' absence will cripple their workflow. Here are my thoughts: Removing the function keys and replacing them with the touch bar is a step up. The function keys have been annoyingly inconsistent on macOS for a few years now, most programs don't make use of them like they could because by default you need to use an awkward chord with the fn key. The addition of the fingerprint scanner alone is a win, but having proper context sensitive keys will be huge for discoverability and ease of use. RIP MagSafe - it was such a great design. I would have kept it and ditched a thunderbolt port, but that's just me. Having HDMI built-in was pretty good for connecting to projectors, but HDMI doesn't support many screen modes and is pretty out-dated these days. Buy a $10 adaptor if you need it. SD Card readers are also not used much these days. Buy a $10 adaptor if you need it. Lots of people are moaning about the escape key like it is their favorite member of One Direction. My guess is that the escape key will be available (as a touch bar icon) in any application that actually needs it. I am not in the market for a new MacBook Pro, but I can see the appeal.
- santaclaus 10y ago
  > The addition of the fingerprint scanner alone is a win 1Password is going to rock on this machine.
  - AndrewStephens 10y ago
    Even logging on is going rock on this machine if it works as well as the iPhone Touch Id (I assume it is exactly the same device)
    - extra88 10y ago
      They said it was a second gen. Touch ID and it has the same sapphire surface as the iPhone's so I expect it's the same as the 6s & 7.
- deanclatworthy 10y ago
laveur 10y ago
I see a lot of comments about apple getting rid of USB. Thats not exactly true at all. They have removed the USB-A ports and replaced them with the updated USB-C ports. Which also double as charging ports, thunderbolt ports, and HDMI (with a dongle yes). I think its dishonest to say they did away with USB because they haven't they have done away with the port you are used to. Doesn't mean USB is gone. Its still there with a better connector!
alain_gilbert 10y ago
I can't wait to have a macbook pro with unlimited energy and slim as a piece of paper... (read I'm pretty sure the next upgrade is gonna be a "batteryless" laptop)
midnightmonster 10y ago
If you say (in effect) "The latest macbooks would mess with details of my high-end pro workflow...so I'm thinking of switching to Linux" you either live in the terminal or you're not really thinking this through.
- larrik 10y ago
  That's a pretty outdated viewpoint. Linux has been my professional platform for 6 years, and I find it to be vastly superior to Windows or Mac. The short time I had to use OS X for iOS development was very painful.
  - midnightmonster 10y ago
    I'm not saying Linux is bad. I'm saying switching from Mac to Linux is going to be a much bigger adjustment to your workflow than getting a new dongle or a few different shortcut keys (considering that at a minimum you're going to be switching cmd to ctrl for nearly everything--unless you already live in the terminal).
    - jablan 10y ago
      It's really not that hard. I am forced to use Mac at work, while using Linux at home (also with very different keyboards), and getting use of making a mental switch when needed is matter of months. It is not much different than learning to use more than a single keyboard layout.
    - joeevans1000 10y ago
      Yes, but the switch is a one time inconvenience. If it's stressful, they can ease that with a $1,500 vacation with the price difference.
dandare 10y ago
Google trends "macbook alternative" and "macbook windows" shows clear spike after the announcemenet. https://www.google.co.uk/trends/explore?date=now%201-d&q=macbook%20alternative,macbook%20windows https://www.google.co.uk/trends/explore?date=now%201-d&q=mac...
- grzm 10y ago
  Any comparison with previous MacBook announcements?
randomsofr 10y ago
I've been holding on my 2012 non retina. I hate that every newer model comes with almost everything soldered.
- r00fus 10y ago
  I'd love to see a plot of resale prices for the 2012 15" non-retina - I bet they go up from here. The 13" is still for sale, but the 15" is gone.
mastre_ 10y ago
Serious question: how will us vim users get by w/o physical escape key? If it's just a touch in the same position as old physical key, I think it'll be fine (may actually be nice, as it will _feel_ different, for a very special key).
JoelBennett 10y ago
Do we know why they removed the MagSafe power cord? I always thought it was a smart design. It seems kind of silly to remove it.
- grzm 10y ago
  Tradeoff between the break-away design for a single-purpose port and the multiple multi-purpose ThunderBolt 3 ports.
  - r00fus 10y ago
    Personally if they could've had an Apple accessory that mitigated that (ie, something built-in like Griffin's breaksafe - maybe recess the port so the accessory could be flush), it would've been a coup. Everyone needs to plug in their laptop; Not every one needs 4 connectivity ports.
    - grzm 10y ago
      I'm a MagSafe fan myself. I remember pre-MagSafe laptops taking a flyer now and again, and being the worse for it. That said, I can understand why they did it. Laptops are lighter now, so the corresponding damage may be less as well. And I don't know how snugly the TB3 ports fit. Maybe they disconnect more easily than, say, Firewire 400. I've got a couple of years left in my current laptop. I'm hoping there's a solution that incorporates some type of break-away power connector.
steve1969 10y ago
I have to agree on all points. As a vim addict losing the ESC key is bad, although I've been trying to re-learn to use ctrl-[ instead which is more ergonomic anyway. Touch bar for volume, brightness, etc. is going to take some getting used to. As for losing the ports -- seems like a great opportunity for someone to come up with an all-in-one usb-C to SD, HDMI, VGA, DVI, USB3, etc. Wouldn't need to be very big or expensive... Even so, the old macbooks and macbook airs with SD slots could be "upgraded" with a low-profile SD card that is left in all the time. This series of macbook pros appears to be completely bereft of renegade upgrade opportunities. I use a mac now, and like the tight integration with ipad and iphone, but unless they come out with a better macbook that restores some of what has been taken away my next laptop will likely be running Linux.
joeevans1000 10y ago
I've been noticing a trend toward linux among devs for a while now, so this will just hasten that. The lenovos are really sweet with linux, as an example, and I'm seeing them increasingly at programming events. Apple has been moving it's product line towards catering to the idiocracy, anyways, so it's not surprise. Add to that the increasing loss of interest in iphone and devs moving to android, in spite of all it's problems, and you have a sea shift. I think it's been an interesting dichotomy all along. There were the consumer apple products, and the professional ones. The professional products were used to build for the consumer ones. I think Jobs really understood the need to have a two pronged approach in this way. It seems that new management now is trying to unify it all, and the wind up is that apple will no longer be the cool dev's choice, and the result will be a rapidly declining ecosystem, offering, popularity, and, finally, revenue.
jbrambleDC 10y ago
am I missing something? the demo clearly showed an esc key configured on the touchbar. I could care less about removing the ports.
hokvel 10y ago
I am really concerned about where the whole mac train goes. It is so clear they did not consider touch-typists when they designed touch bar. They could have used textured glass to cover it, or aligned its keys to 0-9 row, or added haptic feedback, or at least kept 2 options for keyboard as they did with 13 inch model. Seeing Craig Federighi when he tried his best to show the demo was hilarious. Is it how they see professionals working in the next decade? It turned out that Microsoft has better understanding of it. At least is see Surface Dial being used. I can cover that ugly "MacBook Pro" branding by duct tape. I can buy dongles for SD/HDMI and magsafe-like USB-C cable. But... the whole story of giving up on professionals seems to be unforgettable.
awqrre 10y ago
I think that a cellphone with one button was also a mistake but I've never been a fan of Apple... I wish cellphones still had a slide out keyboard...
Lidador 10y ago
"it’s not like I can buy laptops with MacOS (which I’m completely addicted to) from someone else." <- No, you can. Just check Microsoft Surface Pro running macOS ;)
Corrado 10y ago
I have two problems with the new keyboard/touch bar layout. One, the ESC key is not on the far left of the touch bar - it ignores the "Mile High Menubar" concept. Now instead of just reaching up and blindly smashing the top-most left-most key on the keyboard, I have to look down to find the ESC key that's close to, but not quite in, the upper lefthand corner of the keyboard area. The other problem is that they left in the Fn key. Why would I need a Fn key when I have a touch bar? Maybe we can map ESC to the Fn key. :/
dreamcompiler 10y ago
Apple only cares about impressing Apple newbies who walk into their stores, and this laptop is a prime example of that attitude. They haven't given half a damn about power users, enterprise users, or developers since Steve died. It's all about the bling now.

126 points by andreash 10y ago

0x0 10y ago

A maxxed out MBP costs €5000, which is $5447.95. And you can't connect your iphone, your iphone headset, hdmi, magsafe, sd-card or usb. And you don't get tactile escape keys or function keys. Or Nvidia. Or even an OpenGL implementation from this decade! This show is over :(

pavlov 10y ago
Apple sells a USB-C to Lightning cable, so you don't need a dongle to connect an iPhone. The rest of your points stand though.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  A cable of rather limited uses is the moral equivalent of a dongle.
  - SysArchitect 10y ago
    Except that it increases utility. I can now bring a single charger that can charge my MacBook Pro and my iPhone. I just need a USB-C to USB-C cable and a USB-C to Lightning cable. Charge my laptop or charge my iPhone or charge both (use the laptop as a passthrough). It will reduce the amount of stuff I carry, I tend to carry just an iPhone charger while traveling in case I want to bring it with me where I don't bring my laptop, extra space in luggage and weight.
    - 0x0 10y ago
      Can you plug this particular cable into a wall adapter iOS charger? If not, then you still need two different cables depending on whether you want to charge from the wall or the mac.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - SysArchitect 10y ago
        You can't plug it into the wall adapter iOS charger, but you can plug it into a USB-C charger that comes with the MBP.
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      Increases utility over what? If the ports all match, you can choose to carry 1 or 2 cables depending on whether you want to make 1 or 2 connections. Since the ports don't match, you need a cable for each type of connection you might want to make.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
- 0x0 10y ago
  For €5000 you can't connect your state-of-the-art iPhone to your state-of-the-art Mac out of the box. You have to pay extra, and you have to carry around an awkward dongle adapter and hope you don't forget it! Fucking lol.
  - mcphage 10y ago
    > you have to carry around an awkward dongle adapter Huh? It's not a dongle, it's just a cable. You do need a cable to connect your phone to your laptop.
    - seba_dos1 10y ago
      But that's not a cable that everyone has everywhere. So many times around me poor iPhone owners couldn't charge their phones at parties because nobody had their kind of cable around, while for microUSB you've got plenty of helpful charger and powerbank owners. To be honest, lately owners of phones with USB-C were having the same problem, but I guess it's gonna change faster than with Lightning cables.
  - spott 10y ago
    It isn't a dongle adapter, it is a usb cable with usb-c on one side and lightning on the other.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- devopsproject 10y ago
  It is just another cable\dongle\adapter\hub we must buy again and again. These products should "just work" together.
  - Bud 10y ago
    Ok, great. Then let's all go back to 2001 and use 10Mbps first-generation USB for everything. Oops! It won't supply enough power, it's now FOUR THOUSAND times slower than modern interfaces, it can't drive monitors, etc. Maybe your idea isn't so great.
    - devopsproject 10y ago
      Have fun playing with your dongles
masklinn 10y ago
> A maxxed out MBP costs €5000 That's quite dishonest considering a fair bit of that is the 1700€ 2TB SSD (which is not an unfair price, that's about what Samsung announced for the 960 Pro) > which is $5447.95. Also dishonest, most people expect USD prices to be without tax, you're including the ~20% european VATs in that by converting back from tax-included euro prices.
- 0x0 10y ago
  Fine, maxxed out except 1TB instead of 2TB SSD and the total is €4.039. The bump up/down from 2TB to 1TB is "only" €960. Also sales tax isn't dishonest. I have to pay it to buy the machine!! This is a ton more money than what maxxed out macbook pros were around 2013 in €, and to be honest the total package feels like a downgrade.
  - SysArchitect 10y ago
    US sales taxes vary depending on state. There is no direct comparison.
  - masklinn 10y ago
    > Also sales tax isn't dishonest. I didn't say sales tax was dishonest, I said converting back a tax included price into USD was, and explained why. Aside from US sales tax being much lower than european ones (as low as 0%) US prices are pretty much always displayed without taxes, so you're making the machine look 20% more expensive than it actually is as far as american viewers understand it. A fair quote would have been to provide the regular USD price ($4300 maxxed out, or $3500 for 1TB).
    - 0x0 10y ago
      Well if US sales taxes are as low as 0% then I think it IS a fair comparison. Feature-wise, it feels like the 2013 device is worth the 2016 price and the 2016 device is worth the 2013 price.
      - 10y ago
sakopov 10y ago
Not an Apple fan by any means but I've just gotten tired of the poor build quality of Windows laptops and terrible battery life year after year. So I've been patiently waiting to upgrade my 3-years-old XPS to a MBP. Heard that the price range will likely be fairly close to the old generation of MBP. Well, what i saw today is just too cost-prohibitive for very little reason. I'm now hoping that Surface Book or the new XPS are worth the money.
- tmikaeld 10y ago
  I'm in the same boat. I've been lifting any virtual rock for any decent affordable development laptop that isn't two generations old with a bad CPU (Read Celeron or Atom). But there aren't any, there's only the 600€ range and up. Then comes Apple, which I've been waiting for - I have the Macbook Air and Macbook Pro. But for this price and with no 32GB RAM upgrade possibilities and 8GB RAM for 220€? No... Just NO. This is the last straw, I'm going to try Linux for the iftiest time.
  - slgeorge 10y ago
    > I'm going to try Linux for the iftiest time. When you do that please, please buy something where it's preloaded onto the system (e.g. Dell XPS) so that you get the same sort of hardware/software experience that you get from the integrated apple. It will cut out so much fiddling and possibilities of a terrible experience!
    - tmikaeld 10y ago
      Thanks for the advice, that's actually the exact modell i plan on getting. But I was unsure if it was a modern CPU, seemed dated? Or are the newer XPS also called XPS? The worst thing was that the linux version cost 2x more than the normal one here in Sweden...
      - sakopov 10y ago
        I ended up purchasing Dell XPS 15 today. In terms of battery life, build quality and power there isn't much else besides it that compares to Macbook Pro (at least not until Surface Book 2 comes out but then it'll be horribly expensive too). I think what you're talking about is the Dell XPS developer edition. I'm not even sure if Dell sells them anymore. You might just get the Windows 10 Home Edition and throw a Linux distro on it. At least that's my plan.
jobu 10y ago
> *And you can't connect your iphone, your iphone headset, ... This my biggest issue with the MBP. WTF are they thinking here?! Why didn't the iPhone7 port get switched to USB-C from lightning if they knew the MBP was going to USB-C/TB3? The whole point of Apple products is that they work better the more of them you have.

malux85 10y ago

Can anybody recommend a good laptop to replace my current macbook - I would like 17inch screen, and runs Ubuntu ... bonus for NVidia GPU - I deep learn in the cloud but having a GPU to test on would be great. Anybody know of this mythical unicorn?

treehau5 10y ago
I don't know if you are being sarcastic because you exactly described the specs of this https://system76.com/laptops/kudu https://system76.com/laptops/kudu in either case I fell for it
- malux85 10y ago
  Ah I should have mentioned > 1080p (but thanks for suggestion)
basch 10y ago
Thinkpad P70 http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/p-series/p70/?menu-id=thinkpad_p70 http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/p-series/p70/?... Precision 17 7000 Series (7710) http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-m7710-workstation/pd http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-m7710-workstatio... ZBook 17 ? http://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/zbook-17.html http://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/zbook-17.html take note that these all have Quadro cards, not their lower end GForce cards.
neals 10y ago
Typing this from my maxxed-out surface pro 4, in tablet mode, while I do sketching on the couch, after having done some pretty intense Visual Studio Typescript debugging. I would recommand this to anybody. <3
- smilespray 10y ago
  Radical, dude.
- masklinn 10y ago

neals 10y ago

I LOVE Apple products! I treasure Iphone and it's safe and fun ecosysten. I love the simplicity of OSX. I love the professional appearance of a Macbook Pro... as a user. Or as an observer even. Because professionally, I've been on Windows, Linux and Android for years. And with Windows where it's at now, I've never been more productive. Just can't seem to get that across to my Apple-friends and Apple-coworkers.

jaxondu 10y ago
Any recommendation for a MacBook Pro equivalent running Windows? One reason I'm stuck with Mac is the need to use it for iOS app development.
- hougaard 10y ago
  All my iOS dev. is now done with Xamarin on Visual Studio on Windows with a headless Mac Mini sitting in the background.
- Bud 10y ago
  Yes, it's called the MacBook Pro. It runs Windows, natively, just fine. In fact, PC World once ranked it as the best Windows laptop.
  - twblalock 10y ago
    That's probably going to change with the new touch bar.
    - Bud 10y ago
      Given the popularity of Macs for running Windows, I would not assume this. There's no reason why Microsoft can't write drivers for the Touch Bar.
  - jaxondu 10y ago
    I'm not sure if the new MacBook Pro's Touch Bar is usable under Windows.

ch4s3 10y ago

I'm pretty ambivalent about everything but the usb ports. I get they its an overloaded standard and probably needs a replacement, but its a lot to give up in the name of progress...

tekklloneer 10y ago
The hard fact is that there's still a LOT of usb devices out there. Even one USB port would greatly alleviate the pain. If they don't include a usbc->usb+hdmi adapter in the box, it's going to be extremely painful for users with workstations who find out that their peripherals don't work.
- SysArchitect 10y ago
  No adapters in the box.
extra88 10y ago
That's what people said when the very first iMac replaced ADB and Mini-DIN8 with USB ports. This isn't even exactly replacing the USB standard, just the connector type. USB1/2/3 devices will still work, you just need a Type-A to Type-C adapter; much simpler than, say, Thunderbolt to FireWire. The best outcome will be a "rip off the Band-Aid" approach with everyone else adopting USB Type-C (or Thunderbolt 3) as quickly as possible.

tekklloneer 10y ago

While I appreciate USB-C, it's still too early to go USB-C only, especially on a "professional" laptop. And, the transition to lightning headphones is a glaring example of the left hand SOMEHOW not being aware of what the right hand is doing. Plus, the touch bar sucks. Compensating with indentations and force touch could have made it an amazing and useful tool.

mikeash 10y ago
That's how Apple does things. When they see something new that they want to push, they jump on it even if it seems premature. Before long, they're just ahead of the curve. 1998 seemed too early to go USB-only, but it turned out to be a great move. And that was a situation where you often needed all-new peripherals, versus this machine where you just need a cheap adapter or a new cable.
- tekklloneer 10y ago
  I fully agree, but the situation two decades ago is extremely different today. Also, I wasn't clear but I was specifically thinking of the lack of HDMI/display port unless I missed that it has it (which is possible). I already have a laptop that lacks hdmi and has usb c, and i miss it on a regular basis. Carrying dongles really sucks.
  - mikeash 10y ago
    It doesn't have those, no. The adapters are apparently pretty simple, but you do need them.
grzm 10y ago
"it's still too early to go USB-C only" It does seem odd to have only one kind of port. That said, you can also look at it as "you only need one kind of port". No need to mix and match adapters. Just X to TB3. As for too early, it's a chicken-egg thing. Someone is going to be early to market, and the market needs pressure to make the change. "Compensating with indentations and force touch could have made it an amazing and useful tool." I agree that force touch would be great. I think this is an iteration thing that we'll see in the future. As for indentations, yeah, it would be nice to have something to know where one key ends and the next begins. It does limit flexibility though. And it's also a screen, not just a keyboard. Not sure how the indentations would work with the display.

striking 10y ago

> function keys, MagSafe, HDMI, SD Card AND the Escape key I'm an HDMI guy too, SD cards are great, and MagSafe has saved my bacon more than once. But the function keys are being transformed into something a bit more interactive and app-specific, and if you need Escape in a terminal emulator, Ctrl-] has been around just about forever. I think Apple's doing something new and interesting with function keys. (But I agree, I'm not sure I agree with their all-in strategy on Thunderbolt/USB-C either.)

verandaguy 10y ago
While it's nice that Unix systems have an alternative (^]), many people don't know about that, and you'd probably be hard pressed to find anyone who prefers it over just <Esc>.
- striking 10y ago
  You can use it with both hands on the home row, though. Left pinkie down to Ctrl, right pinkie up to ]. You don't need to move your hand up or rotate at the wrist. So in a sense it's actually kind of an improvement.
MBCook 10y ago
> But I agree, I'm not sure I agree with their all-in strategy on Thunderbolt/USB-C either Same thing people said when they went all-in on USB 1.0. It will be rough for some people for a while but the new port has some obvious benefits. In two years everyone will take it for granted that most new laptops/desktops come with at least some USB C ports.
fencepost 10y ago
So does this mean that the Emacs folks have finally won the battle on Macs?

Osiris 10y ago

I agree. I have no plans on upgrading my MacBook Pro (2015). I'm very forgetful, so I know that I'd lose any adapter dongles due to the USB-C/Thunderbolt ports replacing everything else. Well, it makes it easy to save a few thousand dollars this year.

beaner 10y ago

I think there are a lot of legit complaints about the new announcements and lack of improvements, but this post seems pretty weak. Fn keys aren't really gone, they're just present in another form (the touch bar). The other complaint is just about ports. It's not so hard to have a dongle that has these ports, and just plugs into the new one. Sure, a little annoying, but it doesn't exactly kill your workflow.

masklinn 10y ago
> The other complaint is just about ports. It's not so hard to have a dongle that has these ports And the keikaku[0] is quite obviously to provide incentive for accessory manufacturers to build type-c native stuff, and eventually have an all-type-c ecosystem and little to no need for "dongles" (which incidentally should mostly be basic cables) [0] keikaku means plan
- adrianN 10y ago
  It's nice that you're learning Japanese, but why not use "plan" instead of adding a footnote?
  - masklinn 10y ago
    It's a joke/dumb reference from the internets: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/just-according-to-keikaku http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/just-according-to-keikaku
- RankingMember 10y ago
  I think they're screwing with the kwijibo[0] too much and will end up with a professional user base that won't be large enough in number for accessory manufacturers to care. [0] kwijibo means product
  - masklinn 10y ago
    > [0] kwijibo means product I'm on to your lies, boyo.

MBCook 10y ago

"I liked your products. You changed things. I'm stating as a fact they're worse without providing any evidence or opinions to back that up." This is a low quality post.

dom0 10y ago
I wager that most posts headlining something like "[Corporate Entity], this time you [past tense verb]" after an announcement of [Corporate Entity] are of relatively poor quality.
Mithaldu 10y ago
> This is a low quality post. Good demonstration.

gwbas1c 10y ago

Did they remove the USB port? That's pretty brain-dead stupid.

masklinn 10y ago
> Did they remove the USB port? No, they put 4 instead of the old 2, and they quadruple up as charging, video and high-speed interconnect.
- jakebasile 10y ago
  And also made them incompatible with practically all existing USB devices.
  - Bud 10y ago
    And yet forwards-compatible with practically all USB devices that will be made going forward. In other words, they did what you must do in order to move forward to a new, superior standard which gives 40 Gbps performance plus power in AND out on all 4 ports.
    - jakebasile 10y ago
      I don't need 40Gbps to run my mouse, and I shouldn't have to spend more money on an already egregiously overpriced machine to get an adapter. I don't want another adapter to output to my monitor. I don't want another adapter to connect to ethernet. USB C doesn't need to be all or nothing. They could include 2 USB C and 2 USB A and solve half of these problems. Throw in a MiniDisplayPort or an HDMI and we're set.
      - masklinn 10y ago
        > I don't want another adapter to connect to ethernet. You're about 4 years too late there. > USB C doesn't need to be all or nothing. It has to be if your ultimate goal is for it to become universal eventually. As long as legacy interfaces are available accessory manufacturers have little incentive to build type C devices as they can keep plugging away without, so they won't. > They could include 2 USB C and 2 USB A and solve half of these problems. Throw in a MiniDisplayPort or an HDMI and we're set. You're set, and they have to support these interfaces they don't want forever. Because don't be mistaken, that's what their endgame is, that's what Apple has been looking for since they removed the floppy drive and started moving "slow" IO to USB back in 1998.

tinbad 10y ago

I'm genuinely amazed every time there's an Apple keynote and people act this surprised. With every major new release Apple has been taking away legacy and pushing forward, often compromising compatibility.

aikah 10y ago
> pushing forward forward to what ? design over usability ? surely you understand why a lot of people are pissed off. The touch bar is a gimmick, the lack of inputs make the MBP only PRO in name, this isn't a "PRO" machine. This is just a Macbook air rebranded as Pro. But to understand that you need to be able to read through Apple's bullshit, which is hard for Apple fans that see the brand as part of their own identity.

SysArchitect 10y ago

As a professional software dev/system architect using MacBook Pro's, I am excited about the new MacBook Pro. I'll miss the SD card for my amateur photography, but I'll live. It's still got the 3.5mm for my headphones, with USB-C hopefully daisy chaining non Apple displays will finally become a reality, and thankfully my work has upgraded to using wireless technology for displaying screens in conference rooms (which works from OS X and Windows). The new context sensitive function bar is going to take some getting used to, but I have been using Caps lock for escape for years now and OS X just got native support for mapping that. Grabbed a USB-C to lightning cable while I was at it. Now I can just bring a single charger and charge either my Mac or my iPhone or both at the same time. I rarely use USB drives, so unfortunately I'll need a dongle for that, but it's not that big of a deal. --- I am more sad that there was no announcement for the Mac Pro/Mac Mini. Also no Apple display, instead handing that to LG, so it looks like Apple is pulling out of the desktop market (I wonder how long the iMac will last). --- Edit: There is one thing I will miss, and that is MagSafe. It has saved my laptop many a time in it's lifetime. I am hoping Apple builds a USB-C to MagSafe cable that provides the same functionality to save laptops from a tripping hazard.

MBCook 10y ago
I was kind of hoping for an iMac update too. Not anything important, but move it to USB-C so it's in line.
- techtivist 10y ago
  Surface Studio perhaps? ;)
  - MBCook 10y ago
    It will be interesting to see if Apple decides to try to respond to that thing. It's pretty impressive in quite a few ways.
    - dogma1138 10y ago
      They most likely will just like they did with the iPad pro.

trackofalljades 10y ago

FFS, they didn't remove the F-keys, you can still have F-keys if you want...and they made all the ports do everything. They removed the card reader. Whiny posts by people who didn't even pay attention are more annoying than Apple.

0x0 10y ago
But you can't FEEL them. So you can't use them without looking down at your keyboard. Which is a pretty horrible proposition for touch typists.
- Bud 10y ago
  Touch typing doesn't involve the Escape key, really, which is the only key that's relevant here. For those who need it, Esc will be readily-mappable to a hardware key combo. Also, it's simply false that you can't use a Touch Bar key without looking down. It's just a simple motor skill like anything else. Very very slightly harder than having a hardware Esc key. Trivial.
  - 0x0 10y ago
    I don't know about you but I "touch-type" F6, F7, F8, F9, F10 all the time while single-step debugging. It looks like the Touch Bar can change to anything at any moment, such as "answer facetime call" so I wouldn't trust blindly touching it. And I don't have a spare physical button to map escape onto because I already use all the remaining buttons for their intended purpose, including caps-lock.
  - reustle 10y ago
    I use my volume keys without looking also, 10s of times per day.
- r00fus 10y ago
  Uh, I have to look down to know where my F2 key is right now anyway. Also - external keyboards are still possible! I'm hopeful that the customization of TouchBar will have some perks that weren't quite made loud & clear in the preso.

intrasight 10y ago

If your a professional using your computer all day, then you shouldn't be using the crappy built-in keyboard or crappy built-in display in the first place. The Macbook is your computer - add the display and keyboard and mouse that make you productive.

techtivist 10y ago

I never thought I could move to a touch only phone because I do a lot of "proper" typing on my phone, which is why I stuck to my Blackberry until my first iPhone which was a 5 (yes that long). Which is to say, I don't think we will miss the tactile escape and function keys. And same goes for dedicated HDMI port and microsd card slot (seriously how often does one use the latter) Remember when apple got rid of the floppy drive and then the disk drive? Do we still complain about those? Headphone jack on iPhone is a different concern, since bluetooth headphones are still not as ubiquitous and having something else to charge a headache. But none of these concerns (except for maybe the absence of Magsafe) is really a dealbreaker.

oldmanjay 10y ago

I'm reminded of all the people who think saying they'll leave the US if a given person is elected president is actually meaningful

AndrewStephens 10y ago

What a whiney, content-free blog post. The author complains about removing the function keys, MagSafe, HDMI, SD Card and the escape key but doesn't give any examples of how they used those in the past or how those features' absence will cripple their workflow. Here are my thoughts: Removing the function keys and replacing them with the touch bar is a step up. The function keys have been annoyingly inconsistent on macOS for a few years now, most programs don't make use of them like they could because by default you need to use an awkward chord with the fn key. The addition of the fingerprint scanner alone is a win, but having proper context sensitive keys will be huge for discoverability and ease of use. RIP MagSafe - it was such a great design. I would have kept it and ditched a thunderbolt port, but that's just me. Having HDMI built-in was pretty good for connecting to projectors, but HDMI doesn't support many screen modes and is pretty out-dated these days. Buy a $10 adaptor if you need it. SD Card readers are also not used much these days. Buy a $10 adaptor if you need it. Lots of people are moaning about the escape key like it is their favorite member of One Direction. My guess is that the escape key will be available (as a touch bar icon) in any application that actually needs it. I am not in the market for a new MacBook Pro, but I can see the appeal.

santaclaus 10y ago
> The addition of the fingerprint scanner alone is a win 1Password is going to rock on this machine.
- AndrewStephens 10y ago
  Even logging on is going rock on this machine if it works as well as the iPhone Touch Id (I assume it is exactly the same device)
  - extra88 10y ago
    They said it was a second gen. Touch ID and it has the same sapphire surface as the iPhone's so I expect it's the same as the 6s & 7.
deanclatworthy 10y ago

laveur 10y ago

I see a lot of comments about apple getting rid of USB. Thats not exactly true at all. They have removed the USB-A ports and replaced them with the updated USB-C ports. Which also double as charging ports, thunderbolt ports, and HDMI (with a dongle yes). I think its dishonest to say they did away with USB because they haven't they have done away with the port you are used to. Doesn't mean USB is gone. Its still there with a better connector!

alain_gilbert 10y ago

I can't wait to have a macbook pro with unlimited energy and slim as a piece of paper... (read I'm pretty sure the next upgrade is gonna be a "batteryless" laptop)

midnightmonster 10y ago

If you say (in effect) "The latest macbooks would mess with details of my high-end pro workflow...so I'm thinking of switching to Linux" you either live in the terminal or you're not really thinking this through.

larrik 10y ago
That's a pretty outdated viewpoint. Linux has been my professional platform for 6 years, and I find it to be vastly superior to Windows or Mac. The short time I had to use OS X for iOS development was very painful.
- midnightmonster 10y ago
  I'm not saying Linux is bad. I'm saying switching from Mac to Linux is going to be a much bigger adjustment to your workflow than getting a new dongle or a few different shortcut keys (considering that at a minimum you're going to be switching cmd to ctrl for nearly everything--unless you already live in the terminal).
  - jablan 10y ago
    It's really not that hard. I am forced to use Mac at work, while using Linux at home (also with very different keyboards), and getting use of making a mental switch when needed is matter of months. It is not much different than learning to use more than a single keyboard layout.
  - joeevans1000 10y ago
    Yes, but the switch is a one time inconvenience. If it's stressful, they can ease that with a $1,500 vacation with the price difference.

dandare 10y ago

Google trends "macbook alternative" and "macbook windows" shows clear spike after the announcemenet. https://www.google.co.uk/trends/explore?date=now%201-d&q=macbook%20alternative,macbook%20windows https://www.google.co.uk/trends/explore?date=now%201-d&q=mac...

grzm 10y ago
Any comparison with previous MacBook announcements?

randomsofr 10y ago

I've been holding on my 2012 non retina. I hate that every newer model comes with almost everything soldered.

r00fus 10y ago
I'd love to see a plot of resale prices for the 2012 15" non-retina - I bet they go up from here. The 13" is still for sale, but the 15" is gone.

mastre_ 10y ago

Serious question: how will us vim users get by w/o physical escape key? If it's just a touch in the same position as old physical key, I think it'll be fine (may actually be nice, as it will _feel_ different, for a very special key).

JoelBennett 10y ago

Do we know why they removed the MagSafe power cord? I always thought it was a smart design. It seems kind of silly to remove it.

grzm 10y ago
Tradeoff between the break-away design for a single-purpose port and the multiple multi-purpose ThunderBolt 3 ports.
- r00fus 10y ago
  Personally if they could've had an Apple accessory that mitigated that (ie, something built-in like Griffin's breaksafe - maybe recess the port so the accessory could be flush), it would've been a coup. Everyone needs to plug in their laptop; Not every one needs 4 connectivity ports.
  - grzm 10y ago
    I'm a MagSafe fan myself. I remember pre-MagSafe laptops taking a flyer now and again, and being the worse for it. That said, I can understand why they did it. Laptops are lighter now, so the corresponding damage may be less as well. And I don't know how snugly the TB3 ports fit. Maybe they disconnect more easily than, say, Firewire 400. I've got a couple of years left in my current laptop. I'm hoping there's a solution that incorporates some type of break-away power connector.

steve1969 10y ago

I have to agree on all points. As a vim addict losing the ESC key is bad, although I've been trying to re-learn to use ctrl-[ instead which is more ergonomic anyway. Touch bar for volume, brightness, etc. is going to take some getting used to. As for losing the ports -- seems like a great opportunity for someone to come up with an all-in-one usb-C to SD, HDMI, VGA, DVI, USB3, etc. Wouldn't need to be very big or expensive... Even so, the old macbooks and macbook airs with SD slots could be "upgraded" with a low-profile SD card that is left in all the time. This series of macbook pros appears to be completely bereft of renegade upgrade opportunities. I use a mac now, and like the tight integration with ipad and iphone, but unless they come out with a better macbook that restores some of what has been taken away my next laptop will likely be running Linux.

joeevans1000 10y ago

I've been noticing a trend toward linux among devs for a while now, so this will just hasten that. The lenovos are really sweet with linux, as an example, and I'm seeing them increasingly at programming events. Apple has been moving it's product line towards catering to the idiocracy, anyways, so it's not surprise. Add to that the increasing loss of interest in iphone and devs moving to android, in spite of all it's problems, and you have a sea shift. I think it's been an interesting dichotomy all along. There were the consumer apple products, and the professional ones. The professional products were used to build for the consumer ones. I think Jobs really understood the need to have a two pronged approach in this way. It seems that new management now is trying to unify it all, and the wind up is that apple will no longer be the cool dev's choice, and the result will be a rapidly declining ecosystem, offering, popularity, and, finally, revenue.

jbrambleDC 10y ago

am I missing something? the demo clearly showed an esc key configured on the touchbar. I could care less about removing the ports.

hokvel 10y ago

I am really concerned about where the whole mac train goes. It is so clear they did not consider touch-typists when they designed touch bar. They could have used textured glass to cover it, or aligned its keys to 0-9 row, or added haptic feedback, or at least kept 2 options for keyboard as they did with 13 inch model. Seeing Craig Federighi when he tried his best to show the demo was hilarious. Is it how they see professionals working in the next decade? It turned out that Microsoft has better understanding of it. At least is see Surface Dial being used. I can cover that ugly "MacBook Pro" branding by duct tape. I can buy dongles for SD/HDMI and magsafe-like USB-C cable. But... the whole story of giving up on professionals seems to be unforgettable.

awqrre 10y ago

I think that a cellphone with one button was also a mistake but I've never been a fan of Apple... I wish cellphones still had a slide out keyboard...

Lidador 10y ago

"it’s not like I can buy laptops with MacOS (which I’m completely addicted to) from someone else." <- No, you can. Just check Microsoft Surface Pro running macOS ;)

Corrado 10y ago

I have two problems with the new keyboard/touch bar layout. One, the ESC key is not on the far left of the touch bar - it ignores the "Mile High Menubar" concept. Now instead of just reaching up and blindly smashing the top-most left-most key on the keyboard, I have to look down to find the ESC key that's close to, but not quite in, the upper lefthand corner of the keyboard area. The other problem is that they left in the Fn key. Why would I need a Fn key when I have a touch bar? Maybe we can map ESC to the Fn key. :/

dreamcompiler 10y ago

Apple only cares about impressing Apple newbies who walk into their stores, and this laptop is a prime example of that attitude. They haven't given half a damn about power users, enterprise users, or developers since Steve died. It's all about the bling now.