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Having worked both at places with "sick days" (tracked or not), and lumped-all-together PTO policies, I loathe PTO arrangements. Extremely ill people dragging

by LVB 10y ago

Having worked both at places with "sick days" (tracked or not), and lumped-all-together PTO policies, I loathe PTO arrangements. Extremely ill people dragging themselves into work because they have no PTO or feel the reasonable need to preserve it... It places an unfortunate choice on the employee.

mikestew 10y ago
I loathe PTO arrangements. Oh, thanks for picking that scab. Worked at a place with the "all-in-one-bucket" PTO. Hated it for the exact reason you outline. I rarely get sick (about once a year), and it seemed like I was sick on a monthly basis working there.
- ryandrake 10y ago
  Wait a minute: If you have 10 sick days, then (in theory) you can only take them if you're sick. If you have 10 PTO days, you can take them for any reason, including if you're sick. Isn't that more flexible? EDIT: Ahh, good point, thanks repliers! I forgot the case where PTO comes out of your vacation days (which I have been subject to in several jobs). Yea, those jobs suck.
  - marvin 10y ago
    Only if the PTO doesn't come at the expense of other holidays, or with the expectation that you'll use less of your "unlimited holidays" because of it.
  - pavel_lishin 10y ago
    When you have sick days, you typically also have PTO days. When you just have a set number of PTO days, you're forced to decide whether it's worth dealing with a couple of days at work with a slight fever in exchange for being able to go on a family trip in the summer.
  - mikestew 10y ago
    If you have 10 PTO days, you can take them for any reason, including if you're sick. Or I can take those 10 days on a nice vacation to Europe with the spouse...but only if I come into work on days that I'm sick. EDIT: and to clarify for any confusion that I might just be imagining that you might have, the PTO arrangement to which I refer is where you get a lump of days to do with what you wish, be it vacation/holiday or illness. Versus x days for vacation/holiday and y days for illness.
  - 1123581321 10y ago
    It is, but employees count all flexible PTO as vacation and resent wasting a vacation day on being sick. Similarly to "unlimited" vacation, it takes a bit of work to get yourself in the right mindset to use generic PTO well.
  - sparky_z 10y ago
    Perhaps for the individual (all else being equal), but for the group it is detrimental. It incentivizes your coworkers to come in sick (to conserve precious PTO days they can use for actual vacations/traveling), potentially getting you sick and eliminating some of your precious PTO.
michaelgrafl 10y ago
I am from Europe. What are limited sick days? When I am sick I get a paper from my GP saying that I am sick (sic!) and when I'll be able to work again (this is filled in on the day I start working again). My vacation days (25 per year where I work) are not affected by this. I wonder what happens when the vacation days are used up. Do you go to work with a fever? Are you staying in bed and getting paid less?
- LVB 10y ago
  Where I've worked, if you're completely out of PTO then you stay home and take unpaid leave.
  - michaelgrafl 10y ago
    To me, putting this much pressure on a sick employee seems really harsh and detrimental in the long run. I hope employees with such contracts just get paid more in general, so they have more financial wiggle room to account for bad streaks.
- duderific 10y ago
  > Do you go to work with a fever? Are you staying in bed and getting paid less? Yes and yes, unless your employer is especially gracious. Welcome to the good old US of A!
  - michaelgrafl 10y ago
    That's unfortunate. I know how stressful it is even here to be sick, because despite getting infinite sick leave in theory, you still fall behind at work, which is already unpleasant enough by itself. But it's also frowned upon to come to work when you're sick, because you're either risking other people's health, or simply not taking care of your recovery (which will have a negative impact on your productivity).

by LVB 10y ago

mikestew 10y ago

I loathe PTO arrangements. Oh, thanks for picking that scab. Worked at a place with the "all-in-one-bucket" PTO. Hated it for the exact reason you outline. I rarely get sick (about once a year), and it seemed like I was sick on a monthly basis working there.

ryandrake 10y ago
Wait a minute: If you have 10 sick days, then (in theory) you can only take them if you're sick. If you have 10 PTO days, you can take them for any reason, including if you're sick. Isn't that more flexible? EDIT: Ahh, good point, thanks repliers! I forgot the case where PTO comes out of your vacation days (which I have been subject to in several jobs). Yea, those jobs suck.
- marvin 10y ago
  Only if the PTO doesn't come at the expense of other holidays, or with the expectation that you'll use less of your "unlimited holidays" because of it.
- pavel_lishin 10y ago
  When you have sick days, you typically also have PTO days. When you just have a set number of PTO days, you're forced to decide whether it's worth dealing with a couple of days at work with a slight fever in exchange for being able to go on a family trip in the summer.
- mikestew 10y ago
  If you have 10 PTO days, you can take them for any reason, including if you're sick. Or I can take those 10 days on a nice vacation to Europe with the spouse...but only if I come into work on days that I'm sick. EDIT: and to clarify for any confusion that I might just be imagining that you might have, the PTO arrangement to which I refer is where you get a lump of days to do with what you wish, be it vacation/holiday or illness. Versus x days for vacation/holiday and y days for illness.
- 1123581321 10y ago
  It is, but employees count all flexible PTO as vacation and resent wasting a vacation day on being sick. Similarly to "unlimited" vacation, it takes a bit of work to get yourself in the right mindset to use generic PTO well.
- sparky_z 10y ago
  Perhaps for the individual (all else being equal), but for the group it is detrimental. It incentivizes your coworkers to come in sick (to conserve precious PTO days they can use for actual vacations/traveling), potentially getting you sick and eliminating some of your precious PTO.

michaelgrafl 10y ago

I am from Europe. What are limited sick days? When I am sick I get a paper from my GP saying that I am sick (sic!) and when I'll be able to work again (this is filled in on the day I start working again). My vacation days (25 per year where I work) are not affected by this. I wonder what happens when the vacation days are used up. Do you go to work with a fever? Are you staying in bed and getting paid less?

LVB 10y ago
Where I've worked, if you're completely out of PTO then you stay home and take unpaid leave.
- michaelgrafl 10y ago
  To me, putting this much pressure on a sick employee seems really harsh and detrimental in the long run. I hope employees with such contracts just get paid more in general, so they have more financial wiggle room to account for bad streaks.
duderific 10y ago
> Do you go to work with a fever? Are you staying in bed and getting paid less? Yes and yes, unless your employer is especially gracious. Welcome to the good old US of A!
- michaelgrafl 10y ago
  That's unfortunate. I know how stressful it is even here to be sick, because despite getting infinite sick leave in theory, you still fall behind at work, which is already unpleasant enough by itself. But it's also frowned upon to come to work when you're sick, because you're either risking other people's health, or simply not taking care of your recovery (which will have a negative impact on your productivity).