9 ms·

This might work for a company of 25, but what a disaster it would be for a company of 100,000+

gizmo 10y ago
And yet small companies often try to adopt "best practices" from megacorps 1000 times their size! One of the huge advantages of working in a small companies is that you can do all these things that don't scale.
drinchev 10y ago
Don't companies with that size have budget-salaries which are equal for all employees on the same rank / position / experience level? I doubt that BMW has an engineer that earns more than his / her colleague at the same position.
- maxxxxx 10y ago
  Usually the pay for a job is within a range. This range can be quite large so you will have people with the same job making different money.
  - germanier 10y ago
    Let's take the BMW example. Most of their engineers in Germany are paid according to a collective agreement where the salary is determined by looking at a table based on your actual position, your background, and seniority. There is an additional salary based on some specified performance metrics but that usually accounts for a difference of 5% maximum. Only few engineers in leading position and with larger responsibilty are paid based on an individually negotiated contract.
    - maxxxxx 10y ago
      I have worked at German companies with union pay (IG Metall, same as BMW). You are right that there is a table, but where you are on the table is still very negotiable. Maybe people think this can't be negotiated but in reality it is. I got bumped up several levels after I complained that my colleagues were much higher while doing the same work.
- SteveNuts 10y ago
  At one mega-corp I worked at we had job levels (say 20-35 or so) each with a corresponding salary range. All they'd do was promote you to the next level and give you a salary in the next range.
- PeterisP 10y ago
  Perhaps that's the appropriate way to discriminate pay? If for whatever reason one engineer should earn more than the other, then make it explicit in the labeling. Bob is Engineer, and Joe is Engineer+; it's clear to everyone that Joe is earning more, and if Bob feels underpaid then the explanation for the salary difference is explicit in that he's not (for whatever practical reasons) doing the work/quality/quantity/whatever of an Engineer+.
herge 10y ago
Really? A lot of governments are one of the few employers with more than 100k+ employees, and have a lot of open salaries for civil servants.
- scrapcode 10y ago
  True, but it seems like they have a system where everyone can share feedback on whether someone else gets a raise or not. That's certainly not the case in the US Govt.
- jonasty 10y ago
  Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't government positions paid the same across the board? Financial compensation is companies (particularly in tech) isn't standard across the board for a particular position, each employee can garner a different salary. There's a complex social dynamic related to that feature in companies.
  - monocasa 10y ago
    No, there's flexibility in the general schedule system. It both goes from $18K to $133K, and includes cost of living adjustments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Schedule_(US_civil_service_pay_scale) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Schedule_(US_civil_ser...
    - jermaustin1 10y ago
      Just looked at the Locality Adjustments, and as a person who has/does live(d) in NYC and Houston, TX, for them to have pretty much the exact same adjustment doesn't make ANY sense. My rent in Houston was $1100/mo for a 2 bed, 2 bath 1200 sqft luxury apartment in a nice development with hiking and biking trails. My rent in NYC for a 1 bed, 1 bath, 600sqft luxury apartment in a nice building with a doorman every other day (idk why) is $2300. More than 4 times the price per sqft. Every day staples are 20-100% higher in NYC than Houston. Car insurance is almost triple. Parking which used to be free and assigned is now in a garage and $200-400/mo depending on where you are (thankfully mine is in the rent). I think the government needs to re-evaluate their adjustments.
maxxxxx 10y ago
Why would it be a disaster for a big company?
sdenton4 10y ago
Why? Certainly one would expect the form of the discussions to be a bit different - eg, as part of a performance eval tool, instead of a company-wide discussion - but I don't see why it would be a disaster. In fact, given the number of people who said this would be a disaster for a company of 25 people two years ago, there's an even greater onus to provide real reasons transparent salaries couldn't work at other companies.
- dkarapetyan 10y ago
  Big companies are not foolish. The information asymmetry exists because it is benefitial for them to keep it that way. Then again the asymmetry can work in your favor as well.
crdoconnor 10y ago
Sweden, Finland and Norway do it: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-06-18-salaries_N.htm http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-06-18-salarie... That's clearly one of the more disaster prone areas of the world.
- varjag 10y ago
  I'm in Norway, and this is very misleading. Tax data is no longer available anonymously, but even when it was: - you only seen tax return figures, and depending on your family situation, property ownership, tax class, benefits the spread in paid taxes can be easily 2x on same amount. Hardly usable for finding out if someone makes 20% over you. - the data was available with 3 year delay.
st3v3r 10y ago
Why?

gizmo 10y ago

And yet small companies often try to adopt "best practices" from megacorps 1000 times their size! One of the huge advantages of working in a small companies is that you can do all these things that don't scale.

drinchev 10y ago

Don't companies with that size have budget-salaries which are equal for all employees on the same rank / position / experience level? I doubt that BMW has an engineer that earns more than his / her colleague at the same position.

maxxxxx 10y ago
Usually the pay for a job is within a range. This range can be quite large so you will have people with the same job making different money.
- germanier 10y ago
  Let's take the BMW example. Most of their engineers in Germany are paid according to a collective agreement where the salary is determined by looking at a table based on your actual position, your background, and seniority. There is an additional salary based on some specified performance metrics but that usually accounts for a difference of 5% maximum. Only few engineers in leading position and with larger responsibilty are paid based on an individually negotiated contract.
  - maxxxxx 10y ago
    I have worked at German companies with union pay (IG Metall, same as BMW). You are right that there is a table, but where you are on the table is still very negotiable. Maybe people think this can't be negotiated but in reality it is. I got bumped up several levels after I complained that my colleagues were much higher while doing the same work.
SteveNuts 10y ago
At one mega-corp I worked at we had job levels (say 20-35 or so) each with a corresponding salary range. All they'd do was promote you to the next level and give you a salary in the next range.
PeterisP 10y ago
Perhaps that's the appropriate way to discriminate pay? If for whatever reason one engineer should earn more than the other, then make it explicit in the labeling. Bob is Engineer, and Joe is Engineer+; it's clear to everyone that Joe is earning more, and if Bob feels underpaid then the explanation for the salary difference is explicit in that he's not (for whatever practical reasons) doing the work/quality/quantity/whatever of an Engineer+.

herge 10y ago

Really? A lot of governments are one of the few employers with more than 100k+ employees, and have a lot of open salaries for civil servants.

scrapcode 10y ago
True, but it seems like they have a system where everyone can share feedback on whether someone else gets a raise or not. That's certainly not the case in the US Govt.
jonasty 10y ago
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't government positions paid the same across the board? Financial compensation is companies (particularly in tech) isn't standard across the board for a particular position, each employee can garner a different salary. There's a complex social dynamic related to that feature in companies.
- monocasa 10y ago
  No, there's flexibility in the general schedule system. It both goes from $18K to $133K, and includes cost of living adjustments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Schedule_(US_civil_service_pay_scale) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Schedule_(US_civil_ser...
  - jermaustin1 10y ago
    Just looked at the Locality Adjustments, and as a person who has/does live(d) in NYC and Houston, TX, for them to have pretty much the exact same adjustment doesn't make ANY sense. My rent in Houston was $1100/mo for a 2 bed, 2 bath 1200 sqft luxury apartment in a nice development with hiking and biking trails. My rent in NYC for a 1 bed, 1 bath, 600sqft luxury apartment in a nice building with a doorman every other day (idk why) is $2300. More than 4 times the price per sqft. Every day staples are 20-100% higher in NYC than Houston. Car insurance is almost triple. Parking which used to be free and assigned is now in a garage and $200-400/mo depending on where you are (thankfully mine is in the rent). I think the government needs to re-evaluate their adjustments.

maxxxxx 10y ago

Why would it be a disaster for a big company?

sdenton4 10y ago

Why? Certainly one would expect the form of the discussions to be a bit different - eg, as part of a performance eval tool, instead of a company-wide discussion - but I don't see why it would be a disaster. In fact, given the number of people who said this would be a disaster for a company of 25 people two years ago, there's an even greater onus to provide real reasons transparent salaries couldn't work at other companies.

dkarapetyan 10y ago
Big companies are not foolish. The information asymmetry exists because it is benefitial for them to keep it that way. Then again the asymmetry can work in your favor as well.

crdoconnor 10y ago

Sweden, Finland and Norway do it: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-06-18-salaries_N.htm http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-06-18-salarie... That's clearly one of the more disaster prone areas of the world.

varjag 10y ago
I'm in Norway, and this is very misleading. Tax data is no longer available anonymously, but even when it was: - you only seen tax return figures, and depending on your family situation, property ownership, tax class, benefits the spread in paid taxes can be easily 2x on same amount. Hardly usable for finding out if someone makes 20% over you. - the data was available with 3 year delay.

st3v3r 10y ago

Why?