4 ms·

The hardware quality gap between Windows machines and Macs is closing quickly thanks to Microsoft's investments lately

by artursapek 10y ago

klintwood 10y ago
I would actually say it's widening.
- bryanlarsen 10y ago
  Why don't we at least wait one day for the big Apple announcements tomorrow before making this proclamation one way or another?
sirn 10y ago
I'm not sure about that. I have the Surface Pro 3, and the recent battery issue[1] (that basically require SP3 to be plugged in all the time) still left bad taste in my mouth. If this was an isolated case, I probably wouldn't be too disappointed, but it affects everyone with the same battery model, and as of today, the problem is only half fixed[2]. Surface Pro 2 also starting to have the same problem[3]. Which is really a shame, because I really like the Surface form factor. I'm not saying who is better, it's just that hardware products are really hard to get right, especially when quality is the metric. :( [1]: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/forum/surfpro3-surfdrivers/surface-pro-3-battery-degradation/783f6a00-19ba-4dcf-a828-0ad87751e15a https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/forum/surfpro3-s... [2]: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/forum/surfpro3-surfdrivers/surface-pro-3-with-lgc-lgc-battery-degradation/f4fc3ec9-0771-46a3-8282-eaf588a7457e https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/forum/surfpro3-s... [3]: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/forum/surfpro2-surfhardware/battery-life-on-surface-pro-2-running-windows-10/e07b9bad-d253-408a-a0f8-492552f662c9 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/forum/surfpro2-s...
seanmcdirmid 10y ago
Quality? No, this is the one place where Microsoft still falls down. There were a ton of problems with the Surface Book and SP4 (judging from internal Yammer discussions when I was there). Innovation? Yes! Now if Microsoft could just execute better, I wouldn't be so afraid of buying this (because I really want it!).
- artursapek 10y ago
  True, they still have problems. I was close to buying a Surface Pro this winter, but all of the people complaining about battery issues on reddit deterred me. That's why I said "closing". These machines look like they had much more effort put into their design than what people think of when they think "Windows laptop" (a cheap, glossy, plastic piece of crap).
  - bluedino 10y ago
    You'd think now that it's the Surface Pro 4 they wouldn't have those kind of issues. For the first and second models I can understand. But the fourth?
    - kevingadd 10y ago
      We're living in an era where Samsung is now grappling with widespread, catastrophic battery issues with their phones. It gets harder to design and ship computers at scale every day.
    - artursapek 10y ago
      I think 4 had it the issues specifically because they updated to a newer Intel CPU architecture.
      - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
        It was more about the GPU (dynamic switching is a b*tch, especially when coupling a discrete one in the keyboard with an integrated one in the display), and the old power management problems resurfacing again. I really do want to get a SurfaceBook. Let's hope they've ironed out the bugs. I just realized you were talking about the sp4, so that doesn't really apply.
tcskeptic 10y ago
I own a Surface Book, have since a month after launch last year. For the first six months it was so unreliable that I couldn't use it for anything. Crashes, docking issues, external monitor issues, trackpad issues, sleep/wake issues, just one damn thing after another. Things got better for a few months starting in June and it became my primary personal device -- just had another bout of frustration with a Windows update that could not complete but kept trying. I love the hardware, the experience has been the worst I can remember. Don't know if I have the patience for round two with a Surface Book 2
- hifigi 10y ago
  This is eerily similar to my experience with Surface Pro 3. I absolutely love the hardware, with the conditional statement that it doesn't work as advertised most of the time. Forced updates broke functionality...and the actual hardware failed: I got a touch dead-zone, but Microsoft gave me a complete replacement after a year (the customer service was exemplary) My Surface Pro 3 has never felt reliable. I can't count on it working the same way one week to the next, which is unfortunate. I told a colleague this morning that I was surprised that the last two machines I really wanted were both Microsoft hardware (Surface Book and Surface Studio). But I also won't invest in new Surface hardware until I see lots of user feedback.

The hardware quality gap between Windows machines and Macs is closing quickly thanks to Microsoft's investments lately

klintwood 10y ago

I would actually say it's widening.

bryanlarsen 10y ago
Why don't we at least wait one day for the big Apple announcements tomorrow before making this proclamation one way or another?

sirn 10y ago

I'm not sure about that. I have the Surface Pro 3, and the recent battery issue[1] (that basically require SP3 to be plugged in all the time) still left bad taste in my mouth. If this was an isolated case, I probably wouldn't be too disappointed, but it affects everyone with the same battery model, and as of today, the problem is only half fixed[2]. Surface Pro 2 also starting to have the same problem[3]. Which is really a shame, because I really like the Surface form factor. I'm not saying who is better, it's just that hardware products are really hard to get right, especially when quality is the metric. :( [1]: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/forum/surfpro3-surfdrivers/surface-pro-3-battery-degradation/783f6a00-19ba-4dcf-a828-0ad87751e15a https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/forum/surfpro3-s... [2]: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/forum/surfpro3-surfdrivers/surface-pro-3-with-lgc-lgc-battery-degradation/f4fc3ec9-0771-46a3-8282-eaf588a7457e https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/forum/surfpro3-s... [3]: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/forum/surfpro2-surfhardware/battery-life-on-surface-pro-2-running-windows-10/e07b9bad-d253-408a-a0f8-492552f662c9 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/forum/surfpro2-s...

seanmcdirmid 10y ago

Quality? No, this is the one place where Microsoft still falls down. There were a ton of problems with the Surface Book and SP4 (judging from internal Yammer discussions when I was there). Innovation? Yes! Now if Microsoft could just execute better, I wouldn't be so afraid of buying this (because I really want it!).

artursapek 10y ago
True, they still have problems. I was close to buying a Surface Pro this winter, but all of the people complaining about battery issues on reddit deterred me. That's why I said "closing". These machines look like they had much more effort put into their design than what people think of when they think "Windows laptop" (a cheap, glossy, plastic piece of crap).
- bluedino 10y ago
  You'd think now that it's the Surface Pro 4 they wouldn't have those kind of issues. For the first and second models I can understand. But the fourth?
  - kevingadd 10y ago
    We're living in an era where Samsung is now grappling with widespread, catastrophic battery issues with their phones. It gets harder to design and ship computers at scale every day.
  - artursapek 10y ago
    I think 4 had it the issues specifically because they updated to a newer Intel CPU architecture.
    - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
      It was more about the GPU (dynamic switching is a b*tch, especially when coupling a discrete one in the keyboard with an integrated one in the display), and the old power management problems resurfacing again. I really do want to get a SurfaceBook. Let's hope they've ironed out the bugs. I just realized you were talking about the sp4, so that doesn't really apply.

tcskeptic 10y ago

I own a Surface Book, have since a month after launch last year. For the first six months it was so unreliable that I couldn't use it for anything. Crashes, docking issues, external monitor issues, trackpad issues, sleep/wake issues, just one damn thing after another. Things got better for a few months starting in June and it became my primary personal device -- just had another bout of frustration with a Windows update that could not complete but kept trying. I love the hardware, the experience has been the worst I can remember. Don't know if I have the patience for round two with a Surface Book 2

hifigi 10y ago
This is eerily similar to my experience with Surface Pro 3. I absolutely love the hardware, with the conditional statement that it doesn't work as advertised most of the time. Forced updates broke functionality...and the actual hardware failed: I got a touch dead-zone, but Microsoft gave me a complete replacement after a year (the customer service was exemplary) My Surface Pro 3 has never felt reliable. I can't count on it working the same way one week to the next, which is unfortunate. I told a colleague this morning that I was surprised that the last two machines I really wanted were both Microsoft hardware (Surface Book and Surface Studio). But I also won't invest in new Surface hardware until I see lots of user feedback.