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This is why big countries suck. They are slow to change and a wrong move is horribly damaging. Look at the US or China, no matter how I or all my countrymen liv

This is why big countries suck. They are slow to change and a wrong move is horribly damaging. Look at the US or China, no matter how I or all my countrymen live in Sweden it won't really matter if climate change deniers get in charge in the US for example. I just think it's so sad to see everything go to shit due to some greedy assholes that won't invest in solutions that are effective AND sustainable. I plan to become a climate change prepper in the future because shit will hit the fan sooner or later.

ocschwar 10y ago
China halts work on partly built coal plants. http://dailytimes.com.pk/business/23-Oct-16/china-axes-part-built-coal-power-plants http://dailytimes.com.pk/business/23-Oct-16/china-axes-part-...
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  And their renewables deployment is so fast, overcapacity is a concern. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/chinas-growth-in-renewable-energy-raises-overcapacity-concerns-iea-2016-10-25 http://www.marketwatch.com/story/chinas-growth-in-renewable-... EDIT: I'm not ready to call climate change solved yet, but at the deployment trajectory China is on, the rest of the world will have no choice but to follow, as China is pushing renewable generation costs very low (which undercuts nuclear and fossil fuels, pushing their prices higher making renewables even more competitive). Solar and wind are both below 3 cents/kWh unsubsidized, with wind expected to fall another 15% in the next 2-3 years, and solar another 25% in the same time period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Too_cheap_to_meter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Too_cheap_to_meter
  - mzw_mzw 10y ago
    And as we all know, if there's any nation whose official economic statistics are completely trustworthy, it's China. Why, even if China's famously open and transparent government did feel the urge to mess with the statistics, their dynamic free press, unfettered by government controls, would be all over it.
    - yread 10y ago
      Well, you don't have to trust just statistics, go visit one of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dams_and_reservoirs_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dams_and_reservoirs_in...
      - mzw_mzw 10y ago
        I don't think you can just gaze at a dam from the visitors' center and accurately deduce how much renewable energy is being produced by hydroelectric power across one of the largest countries in the world. Why, even buying a souvenir T-shirt in the gift shop might not be enough to gain that information.
- Retric 10y ago
  There are nuclear power plants that are being decommissioned early in the US from lower renewable costs. http://www.npr.org/2016/10/24/498842677/waste-families-left-behind-as-nuclear-plants-close http://www.npr.org/2016/10/24/498842677/waste-families-left-...
Grazester 10y ago
I think big countries should be made to pay the smaller ones affected by climate change. We weren't the ones that caused it but will be made to suffer the most because of it(rising tides, effects on the ocean which we depend on for our food source, lack of rainfall). We are very much seeing the effects already!
- tremon 10y ago
  Guyana is already trying to cash in in a comparable way: http://www.worldwatch.org/node/6318 http://www.worldwatch.org/node/6318
- emp_zealoth 10y ago
  Yeah, I'm going to believe it when I see it. USA still haven't even paid what it owes to Nicaragua for fucking it up. The US also owes about 1.3 billion to the UN due to non-payments.
  - simplemath 10y ago
    Lol, the Marshall Plan.
  - mzw_mzw 10y ago
    Is that the UN whose human rights councils are always headed by the worst human rights abusers on Earth? Just checking.
hash-set 10y ago
It would be stupid to crash our economy and then find out that the "solutions" didn't work. Or that we come up with technological fix to the problem. Or that that whole thing was just a ploy by leftists to seize power. Anyhow, if you expect 7 billion people to do anything in regards to climate change, don't hold your breath.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  > Anyhow, if you expect 7 billion people to do anything in regards to climate change, don't hold your breath. Except that China is halting construction on 20+ coal plants. And deploying renewables faster than any other country. And putting in place heavy subsidies for electric vehicles. Chinese citizens overwhelmingly support renewables and the cost associated with it: https://cleantechnica.com/2016/09/29/china-cities-overwhelmingly-want-renewable-energy/ https://cleantechnica.com/2016/09/29/china-cities-overwhelmi... Americans? One presidential candidate wants more fracking, the other one thinks China invented climate change, and everyone else is oblivious in their SUV on their way to Starbucks. One might argue its easier for China to evolve to a non-carbon economy because their citizens haven't tasted the decadence Americans have of a carbon-intensive lifestyle; regardless, China is going above and beyond what the US has ever considered for climate change policy, and drag us Americans along for the ride. Thanks China?
  - vidarh 10y ago
    China are also in the situation where their depedence on coal and their poor current record in cleaning up industrial output makes the negative effects of the status quo much more noticeable. When the West reached that stage, renewable power was less of a consideration and option, and so we opted for emissions standards and similar than brought the noticeable effects down to tolerable levels, and we are paying for it now in weaker support for putting in place a proper fix.
  - JamesBarney 10y ago
    Fracking has actually been beneficial in reducing climate change because the carbon footprint of natural gas is far lower than coal. Most O&G companies are currently pushing for a carbon tax.
Camillo 10y ago
That doesn't make any sense. If the US were split into the 50 states, you would have to get 50 governments separately to agree to carbon regulations, instead of one. Same with China or with any other large country. Also, a large country is likely to have regions that will lose big in case of global warming, while other regions are indifferent or even stand to gain. The large country's single government has reason to oppose global warming in that case, which means that it can put all of its diplomatic weight on the side of global warming countermeasures. And once countermeasures were agreed to, they can be enforced across the entire country. If it were split up into smaller countries, the ones that will be less affected by global warming have an incentive to avoid countermeasures so they can exploit their competitive advantage there.
- Florin_Andrei 10y ago
  > If the US were split into the 50 states, you would have to get 50 governments separately to agree to carbon regulations, instead of one. Sure, but then about half of those would actually do something about it. Of course, the other half would keep thumping the Bible or Atlas Shrugged (or both), but even so that's a fraction of the current level of inaction.
  - cicero 10y ago
    The Bible gives no good reason to deny climate change. The leaders of the two largest Christian groups, the Catholic Popes (specifically Benedict XVI and Francis) and the Orthodox Patriarch of Constantinople, have long been supporters of green policies.
    - Jtsummers 10y ago
      And actually, as it describes humans as the stewards of God's creation, green policies should be essential to their acts as Christians. However, in the US, specifically in the South since that's my experience, many actively deny climate change and refuse to pursue green policies, ostensibly on religious grounds though when discussing it with them it either makes no sense or they can't establish any. It's very frustrating. They see climate change and green policies as some sort of atheist, pinko, commie conspiracy.
awt 10y ago
Opposition to large states certainly makes sense if you are concerned about climate change, but perhaps not for the reason you think. Large centralized governments and economies cause wasteful and short sighted resource consumption (and thus CO2 production) through massive debt bubbles on a scale never before seen.
DominikR 10y ago
> This is why big countries suck Yeah, for the small countries that have no influence whatsoever. Sweden once also was a great country (I doubt you would have complained back then) but it overextended in its wars and got basically castrated by the Russian Empire. I believe you have other problems in Sweden right now after your men allowed your country to be invaded.

ocschwar 10y ago

China halts work on partly built coal plants. http://dailytimes.com.pk/business/23-Oct-16/china-axes-part-built-coal-power-plants http://dailytimes.com.pk/business/23-Oct-16/china-axes-part-...

toomuchtodo 10y ago
And their renewables deployment is so fast, overcapacity is a concern. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/chinas-growth-in-renewable-energy-raises-overcapacity-concerns-iea-2016-10-25 http://www.marketwatch.com/story/chinas-growth-in-renewable-... EDIT: I'm not ready to call climate change solved yet, but at the deployment trajectory China is on, the rest of the world will have no choice but to follow, as China is pushing renewable generation costs very low (which undercuts nuclear and fossil fuels, pushing their prices higher making renewables even more competitive). Solar and wind are both below 3 cents/kWh unsubsidized, with wind expected to fall another 15% in the next 2-3 years, and solar another 25% in the same time period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Too_cheap_to_meter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Too_cheap_to_meter
- mzw_mzw 10y ago
  And as we all know, if there's any nation whose official economic statistics are completely trustworthy, it's China. Why, even if China's famously open and transparent government did feel the urge to mess with the statistics, their dynamic free press, unfettered by government controls, would be all over it.
  - yread 10y ago
    Well, you don't have to trust just statistics, go visit one of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dams_and_reservoirs_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dams_and_reservoirs_in...
    - mzw_mzw 10y ago
      I don't think you can just gaze at a dam from the visitors' center and accurately deduce how much renewable energy is being produced by hydroelectric power across one of the largest countries in the world. Why, even buying a souvenir T-shirt in the gift shop might not be enough to gain that information.
Retric 10y ago
There are nuclear power plants that are being decommissioned early in the US from lower renewable costs. http://www.npr.org/2016/10/24/498842677/waste-families-left-behind-as-nuclear-plants-close http://www.npr.org/2016/10/24/498842677/waste-families-left-...

Grazester 10y ago

I think big countries should be made to pay the smaller ones affected by climate change. We weren't the ones that caused it but will be made to suffer the most because of it(rising tides, effects on the ocean which we depend on for our food source, lack of rainfall). We are very much seeing the effects already!

tremon 10y ago
Guyana is already trying to cash in in a comparable way: http://www.worldwatch.org/node/6318 http://www.worldwatch.org/node/6318
emp_zealoth 10y ago
Yeah, I'm going to believe it when I see it. USA still haven't even paid what it owes to Nicaragua for fucking it up. The US also owes about 1.3 billion to the UN due to non-payments.
- simplemath 10y ago
  Lol, the Marshall Plan.
- mzw_mzw 10y ago
  Is that the UN whose human rights councils are always headed by the worst human rights abusers on Earth? Just checking.

hash-set 10y ago

It would be stupid to crash our economy and then find out that the "solutions" didn't work. Or that we come up with technological fix to the problem. Or that that whole thing was just a ploy by leftists to seize power. Anyhow, if you expect 7 billion people to do anything in regards to climate change, don't hold your breath.

toomuchtodo 10y ago
> Anyhow, if you expect 7 billion people to do anything in regards to climate change, don't hold your breath. Except that China is halting construction on 20+ coal plants. And deploying renewables faster than any other country. And putting in place heavy subsidies for electric vehicles. Chinese citizens overwhelmingly support renewables and the cost associated with it: https://cleantechnica.com/2016/09/29/china-cities-overwhelmingly-want-renewable-energy/ https://cleantechnica.com/2016/09/29/china-cities-overwhelmi... Americans? One presidential candidate wants more fracking, the other one thinks China invented climate change, and everyone else is oblivious in their SUV on their way to Starbucks. One might argue its easier for China to evolve to a non-carbon economy because their citizens haven't tasted the decadence Americans have of a carbon-intensive lifestyle; regardless, China is going above and beyond what the US has ever considered for climate change policy, and drag us Americans along for the ride. Thanks China?
- vidarh 10y ago
  China are also in the situation where their depedence on coal and their poor current record in cleaning up industrial output makes the negative effects of the status quo much more noticeable. When the West reached that stage, renewable power was less of a consideration and option, and so we opted for emissions standards and similar than brought the noticeable effects down to tolerable levels, and we are paying for it now in weaker support for putting in place a proper fix.
- JamesBarney 10y ago
  Fracking has actually been beneficial in reducing climate change because the carbon footprint of natural gas is far lower than coal. Most O&G companies are currently pushing for a carbon tax.

Camillo 10y ago

That doesn't make any sense. If the US were split into the 50 states, you would have to get 50 governments separately to agree to carbon regulations, instead of one. Same with China or with any other large country. Also, a large country is likely to have regions that will lose big in case of global warming, while other regions are indifferent or even stand to gain. The large country's single government has reason to oppose global warming in that case, which means that it can put all of its diplomatic weight on the side of global warming countermeasures. And once countermeasures were agreed to, they can be enforced across the entire country. If it were split up into smaller countries, the ones that will be less affected by global warming have an incentive to avoid countermeasures so they can exploit their competitive advantage there.

Florin_Andrei 10y ago
> If the US were split into the 50 states, you would have to get 50 governments separately to agree to carbon regulations, instead of one. Sure, but then about half of those would actually do something about it. Of course, the other half would keep thumping the Bible or Atlas Shrugged (or both), but even so that's a fraction of the current level of inaction.
- cicero 10y ago
  The Bible gives no good reason to deny climate change. The leaders of the two largest Christian groups, the Catholic Popes (specifically Benedict XVI and Francis) and the Orthodox Patriarch of Constantinople, have long been supporters of green policies.
  - Jtsummers 10y ago
    And actually, as it describes humans as the stewards of God's creation, green policies should be essential to their acts as Christians. However, in the US, specifically in the South since that's my experience, many actively deny climate change and refuse to pursue green policies, ostensibly on religious grounds though when discussing it with them it either makes no sense or they can't establish any. It's very frustrating. They see climate change and green policies as some sort of atheist, pinko, commie conspiracy.

awt 10y ago

Opposition to large states certainly makes sense if you are concerned about climate change, but perhaps not for the reason you think. Large centralized governments and economies cause wasteful and short sighted resource consumption (and thus CO2 production) through massive debt bubbles on a scale never before seen.

DominikR 10y ago

> This is why big countries suck Yeah, for the small countries that have no influence whatsoever. Sweden once also was a great country (I doubt you would have complained back then) but it overextended in its wars and got basically castrated by the Russian Empire. I believe you have other problems in Sweden right now after your men allowed your country to be invaded.