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Music Theory: An Education from First Principles

955 points by akalin 10y ago

akalin 10y ago
I found this to be a way better resource than the "Music theory for nerds" article floating around a while ago.
nspeller 10y ago
This is actually my side project. It's very much unfinished but if anyone has any feedback I'd love to hear it.
- davesque 10y ago
  I majored in music and I like what I see so far. The interactivity is nice. Looking forward to seeing more. Pretty solid on the concepts that are covered but I could do with a review on part-writing and other intermediate/advanced topics :).
  - nspeller 10y ago
    Thank you! Definitely. There's a lot more I'd like to add.
- plainOldText 10y ago
  UI: The webpage is not usable on my iPad. The menu and main content divs overlap. I thought you should know.
  - nspeller 10y ago
    Thanks. Yeah, the experience on mobile devices too is admittedly pretty poor right now. I wasn't ready yet for the traffic but I'll get this fixed.
    - iambateman 10y ago
      It's not optimized for mobile but I went through it on an iPhone 6s and thought the experience was pretty dang good.
  - mikestew 10y ago
    Hmm, odd; works on my machine. iPad Air running iOS 10. Haven't spent a lot of time on the site, and I see the occasional alignment glitch, but a long way from "not usable".
- jng 10y ago
  Keep up the work. If only a few people get their start into understanding the physics of music through this, it will be worth the effort. Plus I think this kind of education will be a lot more prevalent in the future. Congrats & thanks for the huge effort!)
- zengid 10y ago
  I've been wanting to do something like this a while now, and I think you've done a great job! I really appreciate how you used the sine waves to demonstrate consonance, and the pentatonic section is a great intro into the world of 'just-intonation'. Cheers!
- jcurbo 10y ago
  As someone just getting into music theory the interactivity is extremely nice. The visualizations and sound just click for me.
- kaik 10y ago
  I think this is fantastic. Awesome work. Looking forward to seeing the missing chapters!
- abannin 10y ago
  Looks good, I think there is a great foundation. The Pentatonic Scale feels out of place; but that's probably because I feel that pentatonic is just a mutation of other modes. Chords are really just stacked intervals, it might make sense to move them immediately after the 'harmony' section? The interface is really nice, but I don't think it clearly communicates or reinforces the idea of 'tonic', which is fundamental to understanding music theory. Please keep working on this, there needs to be a good interactive explanation of music theory! EDIT: You might benefit from filling out the intervals section. Clearly articulate each interval, which are classified as consonant vs dissonant, etc. That would get the user/student thinking about 5ths vs 7ths, etc.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- sabertoothed 10y ago
  Well done! Exactly the way I would want to and could actually learn this.
- pcsanwald 10y ago
  Nice work. I love that you included the pentatonic stuff first, actually. it's a great starting point for music. If I could change one thing, I would put the chromatic scale section more towards the end; I would teach it by starting like you did, but expanding pentatonic into diatonic, then harmony, and finally dealing with chromatic scale.
- floatrock 10y ago
  It's very western-focused, especially when you describe the chromatic scale as "modern music". I would also lose the "from first principles" by-line. The pentatonic scale description was neat in that you talked about how frequencies that sound good together have certain clean ratios, but when you jumped to chromatic scale, there was nothing about how that was derived other than "filling in the blanks." I love the site in general, but the "from first principles" by-line implies a few things that are kinda missing. It's more accurate to call it a visual introduction to western music theory. A while back this article popped up on HN: https://arxiv.org/html/1202.4212v2 https://arxiv.org/html/1202.4212v2 That one dived more into the physics and math that derive different music systems. As I was reading it, I wanted some interactivity like this. So well done! There's a lot of detail in there that could give you ideas for additional visualizations. It was also criticized here on HN a bit for also failing short of it's "first principles" promise, so worth finding and reading that discussion too. The other thought I have is make the notes keyboard-playable. A lot of the examples are around playing notes together, and shifting between them using a mouse is too slow. Awesome site overall!
  - floatrock 10y ago
    Here's the HN discussion on that one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12085844 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12085844
  - tiglionabbit 10y ago
    Yeah, it would be nice if he mentioned the ratios the chromatic scale is based on, as well as the difference between Pythagorean tuning and equal temperament. Honestly, I thought even the pentatonic scale should have been explained.
  - cuchoi 10y ago
    While the name that you propose might be technically correct I would recommend sticking to the "from first principles" kind of name. This introduction was created for beginners (like me), and the name was attractive and was what I expected. Maybe a footnote with this information could be useful.
  - 10y ago
- WillEngler 10y ago
  This is just lovely. Thanks!
- bluetwo 10y ago
  Out of curiosity, what's your day job?
- pravda 10y ago
  Everything clickable (the sounds) before http://www.lightnote.co/music-theory/pentatonic/ http://www.lightnote.co/music-theory/pentatonic/ did not work for me (on Chrome). Still really liked it. Await the chord progressions stuff.
  - TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
    Same problem here. No sound or interaction on Chrome.
- combatentropy 10y ago
  I think you explain things very well. I've tried several music theory courses and quit all of them partway through. They were too fast or too tedious. It's hard to strike that balance, but somehow you did. One thing that you did that helped me get further is sticking to that rainbow row of notes, as you explained notes and chords. I think most of the lessons I've tried move quickly to piano keys, where the relationship among the notes is more cluttered, because of the black and white keys. Also the interactive little things, simple as they are, are very helpful. I know even these simple things took quite a bit of work to throw together. I think they are critical to how engaging your lessons are.
  - developer2 10y ago
    >> I've tried several music theory courses and quit all of them partway through I feel like I'm a musician at heart. If I could delve into music with a purely exploratory and child-like fascination, I think I would enjoy it immensely. But I can't fathom beginning. Every. single. intro. into. music., is a lecture forcing theory unto you as though "theory" is the very definition of "music". The consensus from experienced musical folks is to shove theory down your throat; you should not be allowed to even touch an instrument until you've drunk the "super serious music cool-aid"! Music is supposed to be one of the most intimate ways we express ourselves, and yet Western culture dictates that there is a singular method to begin exploring it, and it's far too serious and far removed from any kind of natural process. Had my introduction to programming, starting at the age of 7, been the shoving of books down my throat about Object Oriented programming and how to write 20 different sorting algorithms, I never would have become a software developer. It took me 5 years of accomplishing nothing - and enjoying that exploratory process - just to figure out the basics. Another 5 years to begin digging into the core things that make a developer a developer. And then another 5 years (and counting, a decade later) actually learning how to tie it all together and use the acquired knowledge as a set of skills. Music in the Western world is taught in such a way that they're trying to cram 10 years of knowledge - that you should be picking up along the way - as pre-requisite knowledge. It is taught as a job aiming to produce immediate ROI rather than skill/talent that accumulates over time. Sample phrases from the OP that are spreading the all-too-serious cool-aid - the same things you hear from every music professional (italic emphasis mine). >> A lot of music theory is about limiting which notes to use in your song to a small set that sound good together. >> not all of them sound good together... Lets listen to some garbage >> Because not all of the 12 notes sound good together, we must select a set of notes to use in a song. >> start exploring which chords are safe to use in each Key Why is it deemed necessary to instruct first-timers about "limiting" the notes we might use (some notes are not "safe" you know!), and telling me what does or does not "sound good". Music should have absolutely no "must"s attached to it. Let alone labelling certain combinations of notes as "garbage" - the use of that term is horrifically off-putting to someone who is looking to explore. This method of teaching completely destroys the discovery process. You tell me that "XYZ" chord is garbage, so I avoid it from day one. What if, left to my own devices, I were to discover that chord - and wind up loving it? tldr; Teach me to play an instrument without teaching me anything about theory. Don't even teach me how to read sheet music. Just teach me how to play a few songs I enjoy. Once I can actually play with some confidence, then - and only then - bring in the information that ties together with what I have first learned hands-on. Basically, how any 3rd-world child with instruments carved out of wood would learn. No books. No sheet music. Just an instrument and a patient MENTOR, rather than a classroom teacher who's trying to make a classical prodigy out of me in record time.
- rguzman 10y ago
  I haven't read it, yet, only did a quick search to see if I could fine the words "tonal center" somewhere. I think that concept is under-emphasized and resolves a bunch of common confusion about music. e.g. this post[1] that was on the front page a few weeks back in which the author did not understand what's the difference between C major and A minor. [1]: https://eev.ee/blog/2016/09/15/music-theory-for-nerds/ https://eev.ee/blog/2016/09/15/music-theory-for-nerds/
- Jun8 10y ago
  Looks great! One question: "This is known as an Octave and is not considered a new note. An Octave is the same note with a higher pitch." Why is this so? I guess I'm totally tone deaf since I get no understanding of the sameness of notes separated by one octave by listening to them. In the same vain the good sound/bad sound example that opens the harmony section sound both good to me.
  - tiglionabbit 10y ago
    For the octave, if you heard them at the same time they would be a bit harder to distinguish than most other ratios, so it would be nice if the example let you do that. And yeah, the "bad" example is not really very bad. It's a little bit tense, but there are much worse ratios they could have chosen.
    - nandemo 10y ago
      Agreed. Saying they're the "same note" is an oversimplification. They're "equivalent" in certain contexts, which is an important distinction. They aren't the same note: if someone plays A3 (fundamental is 220Hz) and then A4 (440Hz) you can easily tell them apart! In contrast, if they play 220Hz and then 221Hz an untrained listener will most likely hear them as the same note. In some contexts a note and its octave can be thought of as equivalent: if you are playing a chord you can often replace A3 with A4 (and vice-versa) without changing the chord's feel and function. However, that isn't always true. For example, playing G#3 and A3 at the same time will sound more dissonant than playing G#3 and A4 (a minor 2nd is more dissonant than a minor 9th).
  - wyldfire 10y ago
    IIRC octaves are what's referred to as harmonic frequencies in physics/kinematics/etc. "Why is it the same note?" AFAIK it's because the higher ones are multiples of the base freq. But TBH I know next to nothing about music so I could be off.
    - rspeer 10y ago
      Close. Each shift of an octave doubles the frequency, so octaves are specifically harmonics that are powers of 2. Other harmonic ratios make other intervals (including intervals that aren't in our scale, when you get to bigger prime numbers). Most instruments produce harmonic multiples of the base frequency. (Percussion instruments don't.) So if you play a note at 110 Hz, there are also pitches at 220 Hz, 330 Hz, 440 Hz, etc. contained inside it. If you play a note an octave up, at 220 Hz, it contains pitches at 220 Hz, 440 Hz, 660 Hz... which is similar enough that it sounds like "the same note". (This doesn't explain why 330, 660, 990, ... sounds like a different note, though. Maybe it doesn't to an untrained ear.)
- elihu 10y ago
  I like the demos. The transition from ratios to equal temperament was kind of jarring. It might help to not jump straight from the pentatonic scale to a chromatic scale and then go back to the major scale later, but to introduce the pentatonic scale, and then describe major and minor chords as 4:5:6 and 10:12:15 ratios, and then show how the major scale can be constructed simply by trying to get as many usable major and minor triads out of the least number of notes (while emphasizing that the major scale isn't the only solution, and that other "modes" exist). Once you've established that the major scale is useful and in no way mysterious, then you can point out that if you divide the octave up in 12 logarithmically equal parts, you end up with equal tempered notes that almost line up with the ratio-based major scale. (I once threw together a diagram to illustate this that you can find here if you scroll down a bit: http://jsnow.bootlegether.net/cbg/justintonation.html http://jsnow.bootlegether.net/cbg/justintonation.html) From then on, you can treat equal temperament as an approximation that implies the ratios you described at the beginning. (Side note: One idea I try to impress on anyone who demonstrates the slightest inkling to write about music theory is that I really wish there existed something like Christopher Alexander's "A Pattern Language", but for music. Music is full of lots of little "tricks" that you can find scattered about in books, but I haven't ever seen anyone try to systematically collect as many of those as they can in one place, with a clear dependency graph.)
  - dainichi 10y ago
    > The transition from ratios to equal temperament was kind of jarring I agree. I'd like the course to comment on the fact that the ratios used in the pentatone scale and the 0th, 2nd, 4th, 7th and 9th powers of the 12th root of 2 don't match exactly.
- bobwaycott 10y ago
  Please keep going. I've been dabbling with instruments for almost 30 years, and this is the first time theory started to click with me. Look forward to seeing more. Thanks!
- zer0gravity 10y ago
  It would have been so much easier and fun if the notes were played on hoover not on click. Or even using the keys. And you could activate a specific section by clicking it, or parking the mouse in a certain spot.
- korethr 10y ago
  Poking around on this, this strikes me as a good, simple introduction to the basic concepts, without burying the newcommer under a ton of jargon, which has been been a recurring frustration of mine. Some suggestions: I might include a bit on the diatonic scale between the sections of the pentatonic scale and the chromatic scale. Anyone familiar with Western music should recognize quickly, as a great deal of well-known music has been composed using it. It should also serve as a nice half-way point between the pentatonic and chromatic scales -- introducing more notes from which to compose melodies but all of them still mostly sound nice with each other. I suspect the reason you covered the diminished chord in addition to the major and minor ones is because that's the chord that works on the 7th interval of a scale, as you cover in the later section. But you might want to cover the augmented and suspended chords as well (perhaps in a later section). I'm probably not the only one who, when attemting to finger a chord on a piano or guitar, missed the 3rd or the 5th, and discovered another triad that sounds interesting.
bmay 10y ago
FYI sound does not play in Firefox
- vitro 10y ago
  Does in mine.
  - andrewclunn 10y ago
    I'm having issues in Chrome. (Does quick speaker check), yeah my sound is good, but not working on the site right now.
WhitneyLand 10y ago
Love this, it's the way i would want to learn.
baddox 10y ago
I wish this was even more "from first principles." I wish the "harmony" section would point out that the "simple ratios" they initially show both have powers of two in their denominators, and thus are just octave adjustments of the harmonic series. I wish the "chords" section would derive the major triad as the fundamental frequency combined with the first two (non-octave) frequencies in the harmonic series octave-adjusted down to be close to the fundamental.
- meowface 10y ago
  Do you have any simple resources (similar to the OP link) to help learn a bit more of the math behind musical ratios?
  - baddox 10y ago
    Sadly, I really don't. I've picked it up over a long time, and I still probably have plenty of misconceptions and less-than-rigorous understandings.
    - meowface 10y ago
      The thing I don't quite understand is why many seem to argue that major chords aren't inherently more "consonant" than minor chords, and that it's just psychological/cultural, despite the mathematical consonance that seems to be inherent of major triads.
      - nandemo 10y ago
        "Consonant" vs "dissonant" is subjective: it's a matter of perception, taste. The way you test the hypothesis "This chord is more consonant/more pleasant than that other chord" is by asking a lot of people. Just like "steak tastes better medium-rare than well-done". Physics & chemistry can inform the discussion but it cannot prove or refute the hypothesis.
  - elihu 10y ago
    I don't have any good web links, but a couple of books that I've found useful are The Science of Musical Sound by John R. Pierce and Harmonic Experience by W. Mathieu. (The former is more focused on sound and scientific theory, whereas the latter is more focused on understanding music in a way that would be useful to a musician or composer.) On the Sensation of Tone by Helmholtz is also worth checking out if you want to understand where a lot of the modern understanding of just intonation comes from.
zodiac 10y ago
I like this! I've always wanted to build a music theory textbook (like Laitz) where the examples could be played. > When a song says that it is in the key of C Major, or D Minor, or A Harmonic, etc. this is simply telling you which of the 12 notes are used in this song. Small nitpick, this is not accurate, C Major and A (natural) Minor have the same notes but different starting notes so they are different scales, and pieces written in them sound different from each other. It's one of those things that's slightly hard to explain if you don't sing/compose/play an instrument/read music but very obvious if you do.
- Joof 10y ago
  Aren't they also complementary in some way, like complementary colors? It's easy to switch between them (although that makes sense since they are the same notes...)
  - zodiac 10y ago
    Yep that's true.
- codeulike 10y ago
  I can explain it: if you drew a frequency graph of how often a piece of music in those scales used each note, the graphs would be different. The tonic (first note in the scale) would likely be the highest point in the frequency plot. The note seven semitones up would also likely be prominent.
  - analog31 10y ago
    Perhaps even more important, the tonic will be used as a place of repose, or resolution of tension. Most traditional tunes end in the tonic, and the majority begin in the tonic as well. In addition, the major and minor modes have been used to convey different emotions, that will probably be invoked at some level if you've been exposed to a reasonable amount of mainstream Western music. I suspect that there are no first principles that explain these traditions (and many more), but they work well enough that they can be relied upon (for instance) to reinforce the emotional experience of a movie, sports broadcast, or religious ceremony. Perhaps a psychological effect worth exploring is how we remember aspects of music, and how that memory shapes our experience of new and familiar music.
quadrangle 10y ago
There's not a smidgen of principle in the jump from harmonic ratios to tempered tuning and standard scales and chords. True first-principles music theory must (A) focus primarily on psychology over physics (B) not tell people that complex ratios sound bad but simply help people notice that they are different from simple ratios (C) actually go through the full logic of how the tempered system is derived from chains of harmonic ratios adjusted to temper out commas. The easiest approach to the latter is to simply teach diatonic scales as harmonic ratios and not introduce temperament at all until much later. Far far far from perfect but having the direction that this attempt is missing: http://www.tallkite.com/AlternativeTunings.html http://www.tallkite.com/AlternativeTunings.html Anyway, I'd write the ultimate thing if I ever found the time. There's at least some good elements to this attempt so far. It really needs to be licensed CC-BY-SA though so that people can adapt and contribute and improve to get it to where it's really good.
- Florin_Andrei 10y ago
  I hear ya (pun not intended), but I think the current approach would work, more or less, for people who went through physics school or something. Perhaps I'm biased by my background (physics, and reasonably familiar with music theory at amateur level). I do agree that making it more intuitive would make it more useful for, e.g., kids in middle school.
  - quadrangle 10y ago
    I wasn't talking about intuitive. I'm saying that to follow the first-principles premise, certain things are needed.
- sabertoothed 10y ago
  Don't forget: There is no ultimate best way to teach. People absorb knowledge very differently. I learnt that the hard way. Some people need to see examples first and play with it; other people (that's me) need to see the structure and principles first. The "must" in your claims seems a bit too absolute / dogmatic to me.
PeterWhittaker 10y ago
Well done! It summarizes a lot of theory it took me months to puzzle out on my own. One nit: At the top of each section there is a section title, at the bottom of each section, there is a "Next section" title, a description, and a next section button, and on the side there is a list of sections. Some of the titles are inconsistent from list to top of current and from bottom of current to top of next. It's a little confusing right now, and there are only a few sections; when there are more, it will be far more confusing. I don't have a suggestion as to how fix it, just pointing out the confusing inconsistency.
anton_tarasenko 10y ago
A similar project: https://www.teoria.com/en/tutorials/ https://www.teoria.com/en/tutorials/ Focused more on practitioners. Includes exercises with MIDI/USB piano keyboards in the browser: https://www.teoria.com/en/exercises/ https://www.teoria.com/en/exercises/ These resources also can be useful: 1. https://www.musictheory.net/lessons https://www.musictheory.net/lessons (exercises included) 2. http://www.earbeater.com/online-ear-training http://www.earbeater.com/online-ear-training (ear training exercises) 3. https://www.iwasdoingallright.com/tools/ear_training/online/ https://www.iwasdoingallright.com/tools/ear_training/online/ (ear training) 4. https://trainer.thetamusic.com/ https://trainer.thetamusic.com/ 5. http://music.stackexchange.com/ http://music.stackexchange.com/ N. Wikipedia is a good reference. E.g., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_musical_terminology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_musical_terminolog... If someone wants to try music, start with playing an instrument and then pick the theory. If in physics theory says how the world works, music theory is mostly about labeling things that sound good vs noise. And it's hard to get the words without playing first.
- fenomas 10y ago
  Great list. I would add hooktheory: 6. https://www.hooktheory.com/hookpad https://www.hooktheory.com/hookpad (interactive composition tool) 7. https://www.hooktheory.com/theorytab https://www.hooktheory.com/theorytab (searchable database of chord progressions in popular songs, playable in abovementioned tool) They also sell an interactive music theory primer, which I've not read, but everything else there is free (and amazing).
- gregristow 10y ago
  One more resource for theory, ear training and rhythm -- also in its beginning stages -- https://utheory.com https://utheory.com, which is a side project of mine.
hkailahi 10y ago
Nice. I've been thinking a lot about writing a interactive blog series of something similar (music fundamentals for CS people). It'll probably be a while before I start writing that though. I think the biggest thing that's missing at the moment is a section on rhythm/time. I'm sure you have plans for that. Looking forward to seeing finished course.
dmritard96 10y ago
this is great but I there was recently an article that made the rounds on HN pointing out that what sounds 'Nice' to people not exposed to western music is very different from what sounds 'Nice' to westerners. This is a great site and people can learn a ton but its very western centric and it might be worth pointing that out early on.
- Joof 10y ago
  Is there a resource for other styles? I'd love to learn about them.
Pulce 10y ago
Ctrl-- in firefox 45 to see Subscribe button. Apart this, thanks :)
codeulike 10y ago
So why do notes sound good together when the frequency ratios are simple? Needs a section on the inner ear, stereocilia, and how overtones affect them.
- callalex 10y ago
  This is still an open question after multiple millennia. Some posit that it is innate and have primate studies to back it up. Others posit that it is a culturally learned phenomenon and have social studies to back it up.
RickS 10y ago
This is great! I found the more robust examples really useful, like the ones that show notes and triads in a key. I'd love to have something like this in the form of a VST or something usable in Ableton.
bcheung 10y ago
Love it. Thanks for sharing. Wish I had this when I had some music theory classes back in college.
zump 10y ago
Software engineer here. Finding my creativity is drying up.. Whats the fastest/easiest way to learn a musical instrument at the highest possible level?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- Jonovono 10y ago
  I am feeling the same as you! I've slowly been going through the course Syntorial to learn about Synths and general music theory. Not sure if it's the best for what you want but I have found it pretty interesting. Would be curious to hear others thoughts. http://www.syntorial.com/ http://www.syntorial.com/
- sporkologist 10y ago
  Get a good teacher and take weekly lessons for the first few months. Make sure your instrument is up to snuff. Make a habit of practicing at least 30 minutes a day of technically hard stuff. Most importantly, find an instrument (and music genre) that you love.
  - riprowan 10y ago
    This was the correct answer.
  - rhapsodic 10y ago
    Follow sporkologist's advice and also read "The Talent Code" by Daniel Coyle. It will give insight into why some approaches to practice produce far better results than others.
    - sporkologist 10y ago
      Thanks for mentioning that book, I hadn't seen it before but it formalizes a lot of things that have helped me in the past. Also they mention the Finland educational system. Yeah I'll have to get a copy of this one.
robbrown451 10y ago
This is excellent. The graphics and sounds are nicely done. One thing that I don't see in it, but that I find fascinating, is that in western music each half step represents a ratio of the twelfth-root of two, in terms of frequency. That way 12 half steps (an octave) will double the frequency. Certain notes within this are close, but not exactly, on a "simple ratio". It's just coincidental that it works out pretty good. (although you could make it work out just as good with something other than a 12 step scale....a 19-step scale has been used: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19_equal_temperament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19_equal_temperament ) Anyway, I think that would fit in well with what you've done so far, but obviously, explained in the nice simple graphics that you seem very good at. I also must say I love the way you use color, I have a music project of my own (that I'm hoping to debut very soon) that also uses color in a very similar way. Did you know that Isaac Newton fixated on 7 colors (ROYGBIV) because he thought there was a connection between the diatonic scale and colors? That's why indigo seems to have been promoted from some obscure color to one of the "basic" colors of the rainbow. (I prefer BOYGBPP, red-orange-yellow-green-blue-purple-pink)
- nandemo 10y ago
  > Certain notes within this are close, but not exactly, on a "simple ratio". It's just coincidental that it works out pretty good. It isn't coincidental. Equal temperament was a fork of just intonation.
  - robbrown451 10y ago
    Not sure what you are saying. It is chance how close they are. It works out fairly well in 12 tone scales, worse in most others. Is "coincidence" the wrong word? Maybe. But it didn't have to work out that way, luck or whatever you want to call it was involved.
    - nandemo 10y ago
      Just intonation is based on intervals that are ratios of small whole numbers. The 12-tone equal temperament scale is historically a development of just intonation (a "fork" in software terms). So it's not a coincidence that 12-tone equal temperament intervals are close to ratios of small whole numbers.
smackfu 10y ago
I'm good on music theory right up to time signatures. It seems like black magic to me, and often it is taught by just asking you to hear the beats and I just don't hear them.
- dmoy 10y ago
  I want to say if you draw out a heat map with some dimensions, it'd be more clear.
- getoj 10y ago
  Can you do metre? This is about as clear an example of 3/4 time (dactyls, in poetry) as you can get, I think: RAINdrops on | ROSes and | WHISkers on | KITtens [beat] | BRIGHT copper | KETtles and | WARM woolen | MITtens [beat] Fast syncopated 4/4 (trochees) is Johnny B. Goode: (deep) | DOWN in LOUsi|ANa CLOSE to|NEW or [BEAT beat] |LEANS [beat BEAT] way | BACK up IN the | WOODS aMONG the | EVer [BEAT beat] | GREENS [beat BEAT] there | STOOD... Okay, maybe not the best example. Other common times are just variations on those two.
kroger 10y ago
Shameless plug: I wrote a book a couple years ago that people in this thread may find interesting: "Music for Geeks and Nerds". It's a short book that uses Python to teach music concepts: http://pedrokroger.net/mfgan/ http://pedrokroger.net/mfgan/
fiatjaf 10y ago
This is nice, very nice. But it is quite disappointing that at least for everybody reading HN the whole "Music Theory" topic seems to be just a few concepts that can be learned in 1 or 2 hours.
- Ericson2314 10y ago
  I know right? I left some lengthy comments in the more interesting stuff in earlier threads...upvotes but no responses. Thanks but I'd actually like to have this discussion.
  - fiatjaf 10y ago
    Are you a spambot?
tempestn 10y ago
Great idea! Just FYI I'm noticing a fair bit of static when playing the various tones. It's mostly at the beginning, which makes me think it's just due to the discontinuity at the beginning (maybe start the volume at zero and quickly increase?) But I'm getting blips of static in the middle of most tones as well, so there must be something else going on. Tried both Chrome and Firefox. I suppose this could be an artifact from my onboard sound card or something like that, but I haven't noticed anything similar elsewhere.
aridiculous 10y ago
This is the perfect minimalist introduction to music theory. A similarly good explanation is in Daniel Levitin's "This is Your Brain on Music". It's first few chapters explain music theory to beginners in a really elegant way. I previously thought music was composed without any rules.
danenania 10y ago
This is fantastic! Looking forward to the next one. Can anyone suggest good resources in this vein that apply these basic principles to guitar?
dejv 10y ago
If you are more into mechanical practice of notes reading I had created http://notationtraining.com http://notationtraining.com
deleted 10y ago
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Grue3 10y ago
> The Major Chord is the most common chord. Whenever you're asked to play a chord without specifying what type, then it's a Major chord. Certainly not in modern pop music. By far the most common chord is power chord.
- skinnyarms 10y ago
  Power chords aren't actually chords, since they're only two notes.
  - metaloha 10y ago
    That's kind of like saying a bathroom isn't a room :) But they're also not major chords, they're fifths - E5, A5, etc, although I personally often add the octave to make it 3 notes.
xchip 10y ago
This is absolutely fantastic. I have seen many musicists trying to explaing this with not much success, mainly because they dont understand the physics behind. You explanation makes perfect sense and it is so clear and so well that once you read it you can remember it forever. Thanks!
ticktockten 10y ago
Thanks! Really enjoyed the tutorial
anon4711 10y ago
With Safari entirely unable to handle this page, I really feel like I'm missing out on the modern web with it for the first time.
kmm 10y ago
Interesting, but too bad it's not much more than the basics. I struggle to find a good explanation of how harmony works, i.e. what they mean by the terms "resolution" or how chords are made, in short: how a musical piece is built. My piano teacher's refusal to explain these to me is one of the reasons I lost interest in the instrument
em3rgent0rdr 10y ago
I disagree with the equivocation of "sound good" with consonant notes and "sound bad" with dissonant notes.
- em3rgent0rdr 10y ago
  Does it again in "Too many notes" section when reffering to some nice dissonant chords as "Lets listen to some garbage."
- anon4711 10y ago
  You're not alone: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/researchers-travel-amazon-learn-musical-taste-not-hardwired-180959804 http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/researchers-travel-...
- kaonashi 10y ago
  Tension & resolution a much better framework to understand. But not all music takes advantage.
analog31 10y ago
I'm kind of late to the game in this thread, but my thought about theory is that it should start with physiology and technology. At each level we're reminded that we study the aspects of music that people have already invented, and that we may overlook a lot of important things, such as rhythm. Physiology: Some of this may be speculative, but it seems likely that "harmonious" intervals, that have a superposition of harmonics, have a physiological effect. Technology: The 12 tone scale could be described as a technology for tuning an instrument with harmonious intervals. Temperament is a technology for solving the problems of tuning primarily keyboard instruments. Naturally, math is involved in understanding these things, as with many areas of science and technology. I would talk about a handful of widely used instruments, such as keyboards, strings, winds, guitars, and drums. Then you can begin to talk about scales, chords, melody, form, and so forth.
whitten 10y ago
Does anyone know of a music theory class that works with GNU Lilypond format files, as discussed on lilypondblog.org ? Thanks in advance !
tiglionabbit 10y ago
Inspired by this, I decided to write a JavaScript keyboard that only plays notes in the key you're in. https://nickretallack.github.io/theme/ https://nickretallack.github.io/theme/

955 points by akalin 10y ago

akalin 10y ago

I found this to be a way better resource than the "Music theory for nerds" article floating around a while ago.

nspeller 10y ago

This is actually my side project. It's very much unfinished but if anyone has any feedback I'd love to hear it.

davesque 10y ago
I majored in music and I like what I see so far. The interactivity is nice. Looking forward to seeing more. Pretty solid on the concepts that are covered but I could do with a review on part-writing and other intermediate/advanced topics :).
- nspeller 10y ago
  Thank you! Definitely. There's a lot more I'd like to add.
plainOldText 10y ago
UI: The webpage is not usable on my iPad. The menu and main content divs overlap. I thought you should know.
- nspeller 10y ago
  Thanks. Yeah, the experience on mobile devices too is admittedly pretty poor right now. I wasn't ready yet for the traffic but I'll get this fixed.
  - iambateman 10y ago
    It's not optimized for mobile but I went through it on an iPhone 6s and thought the experience was pretty dang good.
- mikestew 10y ago
  Hmm, odd; works on my machine. iPad Air running iOS 10. Haven't spent a lot of time on the site, and I see the occasional alignment glitch, but a long way from "not usable".
jng 10y ago
Keep up the work. If only a few people get their start into understanding the physics of music through this, it will be worth the effort. Plus I think this kind of education will be a lot more prevalent in the future. Congrats & thanks for the huge effort!)
zengid 10y ago
I've been wanting to do something like this a while now, and I think you've done a great job! I really appreciate how you used the sine waves to demonstrate consonance, and the pentatonic section is a great intro into the world of 'just-intonation'. Cheers!
jcurbo 10y ago
As someone just getting into music theory the interactivity is extremely nice. The visualizations and sound just click for me.
kaik 10y ago
I think this is fantastic. Awesome work. Looking forward to seeing the missing chapters!
abannin 10y ago
Looks good, I think there is a great foundation. The Pentatonic Scale feels out of place; but that's probably because I feel that pentatonic is just a mutation of other modes. Chords are really just stacked intervals, it might make sense to move them immediately after the 'harmony' section? The interface is really nice, but I don't think it clearly communicates or reinforces the idea of 'tonic', which is fundamental to understanding music theory. Please keep working on this, there needs to be a good interactive explanation of music theory! EDIT: You might benefit from filling out the intervals section. Clearly articulate each interval, which are classified as consonant vs dissonant, etc. That would get the user/student thinking about 5ths vs 7ths, etc.
deleted 10y ago
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sabertoothed 10y ago
Well done! Exactly the way I would want to and could actually learn this.
pcsanwald 10y ago
Nice work. I love that you included the pentatonic stuff first, actually. it's a great starting point for music. If I could change one thing, I would put the chromatic scale section more towards the end; I would teach it by starting like you did, but expanding pentatonic into diatonic, then harmony, and finally dealing with chromatic scale.
floatrock 10y ago
It's very western-focused, especially when you describe the chromatic scale as "modern music". I would also lose the "from first principles" by-line. The pentatonic scale description was neat in that you talked about how frequencies that sound good together have certain clean ratios, but when you jumped to chromatic scale, there was nothing about how that was derived other than "filling in the blanks." I love the site in general, but the "from first principles" by-line implies a few things that are kinda missing. It's more accurate to call it a visual introduction to western music theory. A while back this article popped up on HN: https://arxiv.org/html/1202.4212v2 https://arxiv.org/html/1202.4212v2 That one dived more into the physics and math that derive different music systems. As I was reading it, I wanted some interactivity like this. So well done! There's a lot of detail in there that could give you ideas for additional visualizations. It was also criticized here on HN a bit for also failing short of it's "first principles" promise, so worth finding and reading that discussion too. The other thought I have is make the notes keyboard-playable. A lot of the examples are around playing notes together, and shifting between them using a mouse is too slow. Awesome site overall!
- floatrock 10y ago
  Here's the HN discussion on that one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12085844 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12085844
- tiglionabbit 10y ago
  Yeah, it would be nice if he mentioned the ratios the chromatic scale is based on, as well as the difference between Pythagorean tuning and equal temperament. Honestly, I thought even the pentatonic scale should have been explained.
- cuchoi 10y ago
  While the name that you propose might be technically correct I would recommend sticking to the "from first principles" kind of name. This introduction was created for beginners (like me), and the name was attractive and was what I expected. Maybe a footnote with this information could be useful.
- 10y ago
WillEngler 10y ago
This is just lovely. Thanks!
bluetwo 10y ago
Out of curiosity, what's your day job?
pravda 10y ago
Everything clickable (the sounds) before http://www.lightnote.co/music-theory/pentatonic/ http://www.lightnote.co/music-theory/pentatonic/ did not work for me (on Chrome). Still really liked it. Await the chord progressions stuff.
- TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
  Same problem here. No sound or interaction on Chrome.
combatentropy 10y ago
I think you explain things very well. I've tried several music theory courses and quit all of them partway through. They were too fast or too tedious. It's hard to strike that balance, but somehow you did. One thing that you did that helped me get further is sticking to that rainbow row of notes, as you explained notes and chords. I think most of the lessons I've tried move quickly to piano keys, where the relationship among the notes is more cluttered, because of the black and white keys. Also the interactive little things, simple as they are, are very helpful. I know even these simple things took quite a bit of work to throw together. I think they are critical to how engaging your lessons are.
- developer2 10y ago
  >> I've tried several music theory courses and quit all of them partway through I feel like I'm a musician at heart. If I could delve into music with a purely exploratory and child-like fascination, I think I would enjoy it immensely. But I can't fathom beginning. Every. single. intro. into. music., is a lecture forcing theory unto you as though "theory" is the very definition of "music". The consensus from experienced musical folks is to shove theory down your throat; you should not be allowed to even touch an instrument until you've drunk the "super serious music cool-aid"! Music is supposed to be one of the most intimate ways we express ourselves, and yet Western culture dictates that there is a singular method to begin exploring it, and it's far too serious and far removed from any kind of natural process. Had my introduction to programming, starting at the age of 7, been the shoving of books down my throat about Object Oriented programming and how to write 20 different sorting algorithms, I never would have become a software developer. It took me 5 years of accomplishing nothing - and enjoying that exploratory process - just to figure out the basics. Another 5 years to begin digging into the core things that make a developer a developer. And then another 5 years (and counting, a decade later) actually learning how to tie it all together and use the acquired knowledge as a set of skills. Music in the Western world is taught in such a way that they're trying to cram 10 years of knowledge - that you should be picking up along the way - as pre-requisite knowledge. It is taught as a job aiming to produce immediate ROI rather than skill/talent that accumulates over time. Sample phrases from the OP that are spreading the all-too-serious cool-aid - the same things you hear from every music professional (italic emphasis mine). >> A lot of music theory is about limiting which notes to use in your song to a small set that sound good together. >> not all of them sound good together... Lets listen to some garbage >> Because not all of the 12 notes sound good together, we must select a set of notes to use in a song. >> start exploring which chords are safe to use in each Key Why is it deemed necessary to instruct first-timers about "limiting" the notes we might use (some notes are not "safe" you know!), and telling me what does or does not "sound good". Music should have absolutely no "must"s attached to it. Let alone labelling certain combinations of notes as "garbage" - the use of that term is horrifically off-putting to someone who is looking to explore. This method of teaching completely destroys the discovery process. You tell me that "XYZ" chord is garbage, so I avoid it from day one. What if, left to my own devices, I were to discover that chord - and wind up loving it? tldr; Teach me to play an instrument without teaching me anything about theory. Don't even teach me how to read sheet music. Just teach me how to play a few songs I enjoy. Once I can actually play with some confidence, then - and only then - bring in the information that ties together with what I have first learned hands-on. Basically, how any 3rd-world child with instruments carved out of wood would learn. No books. No sheet music. Just an instrument and a patient MENTOR, rather than a classroom teacher who's trying to make a classical prodigy out of me in record time.
rguzman 10y ago
I haven't read it, yet, only did a quick search to see if I could fine the words "tonal center" somewhere. I think that concept is under-emphasized and resolves a bunch of common confusion about music. e.g. this post[1] that was on the front page a few weeks back in which the author did not understand what's the difference between C major and A minor. [1]: https://eev.ee/blog/2016/09/15/music-theory-for-nerds/ https://eev.ee/blog/2016/09/15/music-theory-for-nerds/
Jun8 10y ago
Looks great! One question: "This is known as an Octave and is not considered a new note. An Octave is the same note with a higher pitch." Why is this so? I guess I'm totally tone deaf since I get no understanding of the sameness of notes separated by one octave by listening to them. In the same vain the good sound/bad sound example that opens the harmony section sound both good to me.
- tiglionabbit 10y ago
  For the octave, if you heard them at the same time they would be a bit harder to distinguish than most other ratios, so it would be nice if the example let you do that. And yeah, the "bad" example is not really very bad. It's a little bit tense, but there are much worse ratios they could have chosen.
  - nandemo 10y ago
    Agreed. Saying they're the "same note" is an oversimplification. They're "equivalent" in certain contexts, which is an important distinction. They aren't the same note: if someone plays A3 (fundamental is 220Hz) and then A4 (440Hz) you can easily tell them apart! In contrast, if they play 220Hz and then 221Hz an untrained listener will most likely hear them as the same note. In some contexts a note and its octave can be thought of as equivalent: if you are playing a chord you can often replace A3 with A4 (and vice-versa) without changing the chord's feel and function. However, that isn't always true. For example, playing G#3 and A3 at the same time will sound more dissonant than playing G#3 and A4 (a minor 2nd is more dissonant than a minor 9th).
- wyldfire 10y ago
  IIRC octaves are what's referred to as harmonic frequencies in physics/kinematics/etc. "Why is it the same note?" AFAIK it's because the higher ones are multiples of the base freq. But TBH I know next to nothing about music so I could be off.
  - rspeer 10y ago
    Close. Each shift of an octave doubles the frequency, so octaves are specifically harmonics that are powers of 2. Other harmonic ratios make other intervals (including intervals that aren't in our scale, when you get to bigger prime numbers). Most instruments produce harmonic multiples of the base frequency. (Percussion instruments don't.) So if you play a note at 110 Hz, there are also pitches at 220 Hz, 330 Hz, 440 Hz, etc. contained inside it. If you play a note an octave up, at 220 Hz, it contains pitches at 220 Hz, 440 Hz, 660 Hz... which is similar enough that it sounds like "the same note". (This doesn't explain why 330, 660, 990, ... sounds like a different note, though. Maybe it doesn't to an untrained ear.)
elihu 10y ago
I like the demos. The transition from ratios to equal temperament was kind of jarring. It might help to not jump straight from the pentatonic scale to a chromatic scale and then go back to the major scale later, but to introduce the pentatonic scale, and then describe major and minor chords as 4:5:6 and 10:12:15 ratios, and then show how the major scale can be constructed simply by trying to get as many usable major and minor triads out of the least number of notes (while emphasizing that the major scale isn't the only solution, and that other "modes" exist). Once you've established that the major scale is useful and in no way mysterious, then you can point out that if you divide the octave up in 12 logarithmically equal parts, you end up with equal tempered notes that almost line up with the ratio-based major scale. (I once threw together a diagram to illustate this that you can find here if you scroll down a bit: http://jsnow.bootlegether.net/cbg/justintonation.html http://jsnow.bootlegether.net/cbg/justintonation.html) From then on, you can treat equal temperament as an approximation that implies the ratios you described at the beginning. (Side note: One idea I try to impress on anyone who demonstrates the slightest inkling to write about music theory is that I really wish there existed something like Christopher Alexander's "A Pattern Language", but for music. Music is full of lots of little "tricks" that you can find scattered about in books, but I haven't ever seen anyone try to systematically collect as many of those as they can in one place, with a clear dependency graph.)
- dainichi 10y ago
  > The transition from ratios to equal temperament was kind of jarring I agree. I'd like the course to comment on the fact that the ratios used in the pentatone scale and the 0th, 2nd, 4th, 7th and 9th powers of the 12th root of 2 don't match exactly.
bobwaycott 10y ago
Please keep going. I've been dabbling with instruments for almost 30 years, and this is the first time theory started to click with me. Look forward to seeing more. Thanks!
zer0gravity 10y ago
It would have been so much easier and fun if the notes were played on hoover not on click. Or even using the keys. And you could activate a specific section by clicking it, or parking the mouse in a certain spot.
korethr 10y ago
Poking around on this, this strikes me as a good, simple introduction to the basic concepts, without burying the newcommer under a ton of jargon, which has been been a recurring frustration of mine. Some suggestions: I might include a bit on the diatonic scale between the sections of the pentatonic scale and the chromatic scale. Anyone familiar with Western music should recognize quickly, as a great deal of well-known music has been composed using it. It should also serve as a nice half-way point between the pentatonic and chromatic scales -- introducing more notes from which to compose melodies but all of them still mostly sound nice with each other. I suspect the reason you covered the diminished chord in addition to the major and minor ones is because that's the chord that works on the 7th interval of a scale, as you cover in the later section. But you might want to cover the augmented and suspended chords as well (perhaps in a later section). I'm probably not the only one who, when attemting to finger a chord on a piano or guitar, missed the 3rd or the 5th, and discovered another triad that sounds interesting.

bmay 10y ago

FYI sound does not play in Firefox

vitro 10y ago
Does in mine.
- andrewclunn 10y ago
  I'm having issues in Chrome. (Does quick speaker check), yeah my sound is good, but not working on the site right now.

WhitneyLand 10y ago

Love this, it's the way i would want to learn.

baddox 10y ago

I wish this was even more "from first principles." I wish the "harmony" section would point out that the "simple ratios" they initially show both have powers of two in their denominators, and thus are just octave adjustments of the harmonic series. I wish the "chords" section would derive the major triad as the fundamental frequency combined with the first two (non-octave) frequencies in the harmonic series octave-adjusted down to be close to the fundamental.

meowface 10y ago
Do you have any simple resources (similar to the OP link) to help learn a bit more of the math behind musical ratios?
- baddox 10y ago
  Sadly, I really don't. I've picked it up over a long time, and I still probably have plenty of misconceptions and less-than-rigorous understandings.
  - meowface 10y ago
    The thing I don't quite understand is why many seem to argue that major chords aren't inherently more "consonant" than minor chords, and that it's just psychological/cultural, despite the mathematical consonance that seems to be inherent of major triads.
    - nandemo 10y ago
      "Consonant" vs "dissonant" is subjective: it's a matter of perception, taste. The way you test the hypothesis "This chord is more consonant/more pleasant than that other chord" is by asking a lot of people. Just like "steak tastes better medium-rare than well-done". Physics & chemistry can inform the discussion but it cannot prove or refute the hypothesis.
- elihu 10y ago
  I don't have any good web links, but a couple of books that I've found useful are The Science of Musical Sound by John R. Pierce and Harmonic Experience by W. Mathieu. (The former is more focused on sound and scientific theory, whereas the latter is more focused on understanding music in a way that would be useful to a musician or composer.) On the Sensation of Tone by Helmholtz is also worth checking out if you want to understand where a lot of the modern understanding of just intonation comes from.

zodiac 10y ago

I like this! I've always wanted to build a music theory textbook (like Laitz) where the examples could be played. > When a song says that it is in the key of C Major, or D Minor, or A Harmonic, etc. this is simply telling you which of the 12 notes are used in this song. Small nitpick, this is not accurate, C Major and A (natural) Minor have the same notes but different starting notes so they are different scales, and pieces written in them sound different from each other. It's one of those things that's slightly hard to explain if you don't sing/compose/play an instrument/read music but very obvious if you do.

Joof 10y ago
Aren't they also complementary in some way, like complementary colors? It's easy to switch between them (although that makes sense since they are the same notes...)
- zodiac 10y ago
  Yep that's true.
codeulike 10y ago
I can explain it: if you drew a frequency graph of how often a piece of music in those scales used each note, the graphs would be different. The tonic (first note in the scale) would likely be the highest point in the frequency plot. The note seven semitones up would also likely be prominent.
- analog31 10y ago
  Perhaps even more important, the tonic will be used as a place of repose, or resolution of tension. Most traditional tunes end in the tonic, and the majority begin in the tonic as well. In addition, the major and minor modes have been used to convey different emotions, that will probably be invoked at some level if you've been exposed to a reasonable amount of mainstream Western music. I suspect that there are no first principles that explain these traditions (and many more), but they work well enough that they can be relied upon (for instance) to reinforce the emotional experience of a movie, sports broadcast, or religious ceremony. Perhaps a psychological effect worth exploring is how we remember aspects of music, and how that memory shapes our experience of new and familiar music.

quadrangle 10y ago

There's not a smidgen of principle in the jump from harmonic ratios to tempered tuning and standard scales and chords. True first-principles music theory must (A) focus primarily on psychology over physics (B) not tell people that complex ratios sound bad but simply help people notice that they are different from simple ratios (C) actually go through the full logic of how the tempered system is derived from chains of harmonic ratios adjusted to temper out commas. The easiest approach to the latter is to simply teach diatonic scales as harmonic ratios and not introduce temperament at all until much later. Far far far from perfect but having the direction that this attempt is missing: http://www.tallkite.com/AlternativeTunings.html http://www.tallkite.com/AlternativeTunings.html Anyway, I'd write the ultimate thing if I ever found the time. There's at least some good elements to this attempt so far. It really needs to be licensed CC-BY-SA though so that people can adapt and contribute and improve to get it to where it's really good.

Florin_Andrei 10y ago
I hear ya (pun not intended), but I think the current approach would work, more or less, for people who went through physics school or something. Perhaps I'm biased by my background (physics, and reasonably familiar with music theory at amateur level). I do agree that making it more intuitive would make it more useful for, e.g., kids in middle school.
- quadrangle 10y ago
  I wasn't talking about intuitive. I'm saying that to follow the first-principles premise, certain things are needed.
sabertoothed 10y ago
Don't forget: There is no ultimate best way to teach. People absorb knowledge very differently. I learnt that the hard way. Some people need to see examples first and play with it; other people (that's me) need to see the structure and principles first. The "must" in your claims seems a bit too absolute / dogmatic to me.

PeterWhittaker 10y ago

Well done! It summarizes a lot of theory it took me months to puzzle out on my own. One nit: At the top of each section there is a section title, at the bottom of each section, there is a "Next section" title, a description, and a next section button, and on the side there is a list of sections. Some of the titles are inconsistent from list to top of current and from bottom of current to top of next. It's a little confusing right now, and there are only a few sections; when there are more, it will be far more confusing. I don't have a suggestion as to how fix it, just pointing out the confusing inconsistency.

anton_tarasenko 10y ago

A similar project: https://www.teoria.com/en/tutorials/ https://www.teoria.com/en/tutorials/ Focused more on practitioners. Includes exercises with MIDI/USB piano keyboards in the browser: https://www.teoria.com/en/exercises/ https://www.teoria.com/en/exercises/ These resources also can be useful: 1. https://www.musictheory.net/lessons https://www.musictheory.net/lessons (exercises included) 2. http://www.earbeater.com/online-ear-training http://www.earbeater.com/online-ear-training (ear training exercises) 3. https://www.iwasdoingallright.com/tools/ear_training/online/ https://www.iwasdoingallright.com/tools/ear_training/online/ (ear training) 4. https://trainer.thetamusic.com/ https://trainer.thetamusic.com/ 5. http://music.stackexchange.com/ http://music.stackexchange.com/ N. Wikipedia is a good reference. E.g., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_musical_terminology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_musical_terminolog... If someone wants to try music, start with playing an instrument and then pick the theory. If in physics theory says how the world works, music theory is mostly about labeling things that sound good vs noise. And it's hard to get the words without playing first.

fenomas 10y ago
Great list. I would add hooktheory: 6. https://www.hooktheory.com/hookpad https://www.hooktheory.com/hookpad (interactive composition tool) 7. https://www.hooktheory.com/theorytab https://www.hooktheory.com/theorytab (searchable database of chord progressions in popular songs, playable in abovementioned tool) They also sell an interactive music theory primer, which I've not read, but everything else there is free (and amazing).
gregristow 10y ago
One more resource for theory, ear training and rhythm -- also in its beginning stages -- https://utheory.com https://utheory.com, which is a side project of mine.

hkailahi 10y ago

Nice. I've been thinking a lot about writing a interactive blog series of something similar (music fundamentals for CS people). It'll probably be a while before I start writing that though. I think the biggest thing that's missing at the moment is a section on rhythm/time. I'm sure you have plans for that. Looking forward to seeing finished course.

dmritard96 10y ago

this is great but I there was recently an article that made the rounds on HN pointing out that what sounds 'Nice' to people not exposed to western music is very different from what sounds 'Nice' to westerners. This is a great site and people can learn a ton but its very western centric and it might be worth pointing that out early on.

Joof 10y ago
Is there a resource for other styles? I'd love to learn about them.

Pulce 10y ago

Ctrl-- in firefox 45 to see Subscribe button. Apart this, thanks :)

codeulike 10y ago

So why do notes sound good together when the frequency ratios are simple? Needs a section on the inner ear, stereocilia, and how overtones affect them.

callalex 10y ago
This is still an open question after multiple millennia. Some posit that it is innate and have primate studies to back it up. Others posit that it is a culturally learned phenomenon and have social studies to back it up.

RickS 10y ago

This is great! I found the more robust examples really useful, like the ones that show notes and triads in a key. I'd love to have something like this in the form of a VST or something usable in Ableton.

bcheung 10y ago

Love it. Thanks for sharing. Wish I had this when I had some music theory classes back in college.

zump 10y ago

Software engineer here. Finding my creativity is drying up.. Whats the fastest/easiest way to learn a musical instrument at the highest possible level?

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Jonovono 10y ago
I am feeling the same as you! I've slowly been going through the course Syntorial to learn about Synths and general music theory. Not sure if it's the best for what you want but I have found it pretty interesting. Would be curious to hear others thoughts. http://www.syntorial.com/ http://www.syntorial.com/
sporkologist 10y ago
Get a good teacher and take weekly lessons for the first few months. Make sure your instrument is up to snuff. Make a habit of practicing at least 30 minutes a day of technically hard stuff. Most importantly, find an instrument (and music genre) that you love.
- riprowan 10y ago
  This was the correct answer.
- rhapsodic 10y ago
  Follow sporkologist's advice and also read "The Talent Code" by Daniel Coyle. It will give insight into why some approaches to practice produce far better results than others.
  - sporkologist 10y ago
    Thanks for mentioning that book, I hadn't seen it before but it formalizes a lot of things that have helped me in the past. Also they mention the Finland educational system. Yeah I'll have to get a copy of this one.

robbrown451 10y ago

This is excellent. The graphics and sounds are nicely done. One thing that I don't see in it, but that I find fascinating, is that in western music each half step represents a ratio of the twelfth-root of two, in terms of frequency. That way 12 half steps (an octave) will double the frequency. Certain notes within this are close, but not exactly, on a "simple ratio". It's just coincidental that it works out pretty good. (although you could make it work out just as good with something other than a 12 step scale....a 19-step scale has been used: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19_equal_temperament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19_equal_temperament ) Anyway, I think that would fit in well with what you've done so far, but obviously, explained in the nice simple graphics that you seem very good at. I also must say I love the way you use color, I have a music project of my own (that I'm hoping to debut very soon) that also uses color in a very similar way. Did you know that Isaac Newton fixated on 7 colors (ROYGBIV) because he thought there was a connection between the diatonic scale and colors? That's why indigo seems to have been promoted from some obscure color to one of the "basic" colors of the rainbow. (I prefer BOYGBPP, red-orange-yellow-green-blue-purple-pink)

nandemo 10y ago
> Certain notes within this are close, but not exactly, on a "simple ratio". It's just coincidental that it works out pretty good. It isn't coincidental. Equal temperament was a fork of just intonation.
- robbrown451 10y ago
  Not sure what you are saying. It is chance how close they are. It works out fairly well in 12 tone scales, worse in most others. Is "coincidence" the wrong word? Maybe. But it didn't have to work out that way, luck or whatever you want to call it was involved.
  - nandemo 10y ago
    Just intonation is based on intervals that are ratios of small whole numbers. The 12-tone equal temperament scale is historically a development of just intonation (a "fork" in software terms). So it's not a coincidence that 12-tone equal temperament intervals are close to ratios of small whole numbers.

smackfu 10y ago

I'm good on music theory right up to time signatures. It seems like black magic to me, and often it is taught by just asking you to hear the beats and I just don't hear them.

dmoy 10y ago
I want to say if you draw out a heat map with some dimensions, it'd be more clear.
getoj 10y ago
Can you do metre? This is about as clear an example of 3/4 time (dactyls, in poetry) as you can get, I think: RAINdrops on | ROSes and | WHISkers on | KITtens [beat] | BRIGHT copper | KETtles and | WARM woolen | MITtens [beat] Fast syncopated 4/4 (trochees) is Johnny B. Goode: (deep) | DOWN in LOUsi|ANa CLOSE to|NEW or [BEAT beat] |LEANS [beat BEAT] way | BACK up IN the | WOODS aMONG the | EVer [BEAT beat] | GREENS [beat BEAT] there | STOOD... Okay, maybe not the best example. Other common times are just variations on those two.

kroger 10y ago

Shameless plug: I wrote a book a couple years ago that people in this thread may find interesting: "Music for Geeks and Nerds". It's a short book that uses Python to teach music concepts: http://pedrokroger.net/mfgan/ http://pedrokroger.net/mfgan/

fiatjaf 10y ago

This is nice, very nice. But it is quite disappointing that at least for everybody reading HN the whole "Music Theory" topic seems to be just a few concepts that can be learned in 1 or 2 hours.

Ericson2314 10y ago
I know right? I left some lengthy comments in the more interesting stuff in earlier threads...upvotes but no responses. Thanks but I'd actually like to have this discussion.
- fiatjaf 10y ago
  Are you a spambot?

tempestn 10y ago

Great idea! Just FYI I'm noticing a fair bit of static when playing the various tones. It's mostly at the beginning, which makes me think it's just due to the discontinuity at the beginning (maybe start the volume at zero and quickly increase?) But I'm getting blips of static in the middle of most tones as well, so there must be something else going on. Tried both Chrome and Firefox. I suppose this could be an artifact from my onboard sound card or something like that, but I haven't noticed anything similar elsewhere.

aridiculous 10y ago

This is the perfect minimalist introduction to music theory. A similarly good explanation is in Daniel Levitin's "This is Your Brain on Music". It's first few chapters explain music theory to beginners in a really elegant way. I previously thought music was composed without any rules.

danenania 10y ago

This is fantastic! Looking forward to the next one. Can anyone suggest good resources in this vein that apply these basic principles to guitar?

dejv 10y ago

If you are more into mechanical practice of notes reading I had created http://notationtraining.com http://notationtraining.com

deleted 10y ago

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Grue3 10y ago

> The Major Chord is the most common chord. Whenever you're asked to play a chord without specifying what type, then it's a Major chord. Certainly not in modern pop music. By far the most common chord is power chord.

skinnyarms 10y ago
Power chords aren't actually chords, since they're only two notes.
- metaloha 10y ago
  That's kind of like saying a bathroom isn't a room :) But they're also not major chords, they're fifths - E5, A5, etc, although I personally often add the octave to make it 3 notes.

xchip 10y ago

This is absolutely fantastic. I have seen many musicists trying to explaing this with not much success, mainly because they dont understand the physics behind. You explanation makes perfect sense and it is so clear and so well that once you read it you can remember it forever. Thanks!

ticktockten 10y ago

Thanks! Really enjoyed the tutorial

anon4711 10y ago

With Safari entirely unable to handle this page, I really feel like I'm missing out on the modern web with it for the first time.

kmm 10y ago

Interesting, but too bad it's not much more than the basics. I struggle to find a good explanation of how harmony works, i.e. what they mean by the terms "resolution" or how chords are made, in short: how a musical piece is built. My piano teacher's refusal to explain these to me is one of the reasons I lost interest in the instrument

em3rgent0rdr 10y ago

I disagree with the equivocation of "sound good" with consonant notes and "sound bad" with dissonant notes.

em3rgent0rdr 10y ago
Does it again in "Too many notes" section when reffering to some nice dissonant chords as "Lets listen to some garbage."
anon4711 10y ago
You're not alone: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/researchers-travel-amazon-learn-musical-taste-not-hardwired-180959804 http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/researchers-travel-...
kaonashi 10y ago
Tension & resolution a much better framework to understand. But not all music takes advantage.

analog31 10y ago

I'm kind of late to the game in this thread, but my thought about theory is that it should start with physiology and technology. At each level we're reminded that we study the aspects of music that people have already invented, and that we may overlook a lot of important things, such as rhythm. Physiology: Some of this may be speculative, but it seems likely that "harmonious" intervals, that have a superposition of harmonics, have a physiological effect. Technology: The 12 tone scale could be described as a technology for tuning an instrument with harmonious intervals. Temperament is a technology for solving the problems of tuning primarily keyboard instruments. Naturally, math is involved in understanding these things, as with many areas of science and technology. I would talk about a handful of widely used instruments, such as keyboards, strings, winds, guitars, and drums. Then you can begin to talk about scales, chords, melody, form, and so forth.

whitten 10y ago

Does anyone know of a music theory class that works with GNU Lilypond format files, as discussed on lilypondblog.org ? Thanks in advance !

tiglionabbit 10y ago

Inspired by this, I decided to write a JavaScript keyboard that only plays notes in the key you're in. https://nickretallack.github.io/theme/ https://nickretallack.github.io/theme/