30 ms·

Images of New MacBook Pro with Magic Toolbar Leaked in MacOS Sierra 10.12.1

250 points by coloneltcb 10y ago

frou_dh 10y ago
The hardware 'Esc' key has got the boot. Controversy incoming.
- internobody 10y ago
  No volume keys either
- pklausler 10y ago
  What will vi users do?
  - tachion 10y ago
    'Hey Siri, emulate pressing escape button on keyboard now, please'.
    - heywire 10y ago
      Siri: "I've searched the web for "emulate pressing escape button on keyboard now" for you":
  - grantbachman 10y ago
    Continue mapping Escape to Caps Lock like we always do :)
  - lojack 10y ago
    Caps -> Esc
  - sctb 10y ago
    The escape character is ^[ and can always be typed that way.
    - frou_dh 10y ago
      Have you noticed the correspondence between these alternate terminal incantations and the resultant codes they produce? If an ASCII table is laid out in columns of 32, they are on the same row, e.g. (3) ETX <-- C (67) (4) EOT <-- D (68) (8) BS <-- H (72) (27) ESC <-- [ (91) I was happy to find some order in what previously seemed arcane stuff.
  - elcapitan 10y ago
    Remap caps lock - To be honest, that super-thin row of Esc/F-keys on the 11" Air has been totally useless anyway for real typing, so if I go from there to a new Pro, I wouldn't really miss that stuff.
  - toor2 10y ago
    Using escape in vi is an anti pattern. Use control-[
    - vr46 10y ago
      Why is it an anti-pattern? Surely a single press is more efficient than two?
  - tucif 10y ago
    I usually do C-c or A-j/k/... Esc is not that central to vi.
  - legulere 10y ago
    `imap jj <Esc>` as there are basically no words with two consecutive j's (I use hh for colemak instead)
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- benologist 10y ago
  I'm curious what's going to happen to co-installed operating systems that still rely on those keys.
  - dandr01d 10y ago
    They don't want co-installed operating systems. Just like they don't want wired headphones.
    - benologist 10y ago
      I was just thinking that earlier today when I was enabling installing apps from "anywhere", which is now a hidden option that can only be enabled from the command line.
      - X-Istence 10y ago
        You can still install apps from anywhere. The hidden option allows you to bypass gatekeeper, which IMHO is a fantastic security feature that stops people from installing potential malware or unsigned binaries.
      - nicky0 10y ago
        Right click the app and choose "Open". No need to turn it on globally.
  - grzm 10y ago
    I think it's a good possibility that for operation systems, and even applications that don't take advantage of the bar that there's a default that behaves like the existing key row.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
    All Apple hardware has Windows drivers thanks to Boot Camp. So presumably those drivers will display function keys. Linux and the like will be interesting, though.
- romanovcode 10y ago
  courage
serge2k 10y ago
Alright, I think the touch bar thing is stupid but really I use those keys for volume/brightness almost exclusively. So I can probably live with that. edit: Aw crud, I do use escape when I'm editing in vim from time to time. Not having HDMI on the 15" is annoying. Not having SD is annoying. I didn't use the HDMI port a ton, but it was nice to have. SD I really only use for photos. Losing magsafe is probably the worst thing here. Oh well, my 2013 is still going strong so it's not like I'm really in the market for a new macbook.
- ashark 10y ago
  No magsafe and taking out all those other conveniences means I can consider other vendors for the first time in years—but only because the MacBook will have gotten worse, which is kind of a sad reason for it.
  - endemic 10y ago
    I have a venerable 2010 MBP that I'm considering replacing in the near future, but (as you mention) the new hardware is not compelling. The thing I can't figure out is whether or not my gripes are legitimate, or if I'm losing brain plasticity (i.e. getting old).
usaphp 10y ago
Please, not those stupid left/right arrow keys, leave them as they are on current macbook pro, I need spacing between them so I can touch feel them.
revelation 10y ago
No function keys, so the "magic toolbar" will for 99% of the time just be a generic toolbar? That smacks of the Android decision to do away with physical keys and instead just display them all the time. Wasting valuable screen real estate and power for a bad emulation of buttons.
rcthompson 10y ago
I once owned a Dell laptop that used a strip of touch-sensitive regions for volume and media control. In practice they were completely useless, because without looking, it just felt like one continuous bar with nothing differentiating the buttons, so the lack of any tactile feedback made it impossible to use those "buttons" without looking at them. In my 4 years of owning that laptop, I was never able to build any muscle memory for hitting those buttons. I'm worried that the same will be true of this magic toolbar.
- kirkdouglas 10y ago
  I guess it was Dell Studio.
  - rcthompson 10y ago
    I believe it was an XPS 13.
- heywire 10y ago
  As someone who spends most my workday in Visual Studio, I can relate. I would have a real tough time breaking that muscle memory.
- draw_down 10y ago
  Something tells me Apple knows a bit more about how to build a touch interface than Dell does.
  - khedoros1 10y ago
    If the core issues are that there's no tactile feedback and that button locations can shift depending on context, then Apple made the same mistakes that Dell did. The problem is that no matter how well-designed it is, a keyboard used for touch-typing is the wrong place for a smooth, capacitive sensor.
    - ceterum_censeo 10y ago
aoki 10y ago
am i the only one who thought: "hey, apple finally implemented the ANY key!" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Any_key https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Any_key
draw_down 10y ago
The rest of them I don't care about, but I use the play/pause and volume keys often.
raldi 10y ago
The article mentions that there's no longer an escape key; command-line users, get ready to switch to Ctrl-[ from now on. Not mentioned in the article: the power button is gone, too.
- garrettgrimsley 10y ago
  >Not mentioned in the article: the power button is gone, too. "It appears Touch ID is built into a nearly-invisible power button located next to the display."
  - raldi 10y ago
    I could've sworn I'd Ctrl-Fed for "power" before posting this comment. Maybe they're editing the article as the news develops.
Esau 10y ago
Yuck.
madmax108 10y ago
Another example of Apple trying to please the masses but pushing over developers. It's silly to think that the function keys and the ESC keys are used so little that they can be removed altogether. Agree with others in the discussion that such touch sensitive regions are largely useless besides the bling factor. Also, what about the controls like screen and keyboard brightness or volume controls? Where do those go to? I use a Macbook Pro 2015 and I don't think I'll be upgrading to the new one, especially if the specs are nearly similar. Why Apple, Why do you insist on going against the standards on practically EVERYTHING? There has to be some method behind the madness.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- draw_down 10y ago
  Perhaps the `fn` key will remain, and switch the bar into a mode that has screen brightness, keyboard brightness, volume, etc. I think that would work ok, but yeah, it's a shame about Esc.
  - Jtsummers 10y ago
    Looks like that's the case. 'fn' is the lower left key on the Apple keyboard. 4th to the left from the space bar. The images still show a key there (but not enough to see what text is on it), but that's almost certainly still the 'fn' key.
  - systoll 10y ago
    I wouldn't be surprised if it's also used to make fn+` = Esc, fn+1 = F1 etc That's how my filco Minila & other 60% keyboards implement the F keys, and IMO it's an improvement. [though... I do flip the ` key to be ESC by default]
- rayiner 10y ago
  Some developers. Neither Emacs nor Vim use the function keys to any significant extent. Relatively rarely-used stuff like screen brightness and volume control seem like the obvious things to put on a multi-function OLED bar.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
pixelHD 10y ago
Apart from the lack of the Escape and function keys, I'm kinda bothered about the keyboard. It seems the MacBook Pro has the butterfly keys. I really hoped they won't use the butterfly keys on the MBP. Well, it's just a leaked image, so can't draw too many conclusions out of it I guess.
- uptown 10y ago
  The image is embedded in the latest release of Sierra, so it's basically confirmed.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- endemic 10y ago
  I'm more bothered by the butterfly switches than the touchscreen strip. When the 12" MacBook was released, I stopped by a local Apple store to check it out, and left unimpressed. Better than typing on an iPad, but not by much. At the point where I'm carrying a laptop, the extra few mm for decent key travel is going to be unnoticeable.
visionscaper 10y ago
What I noticed is what I think is a thinner screen bezel, which I love. It also seems that the body is less wide. Or I'm I the only one noticing this?
andrewmcwatters 10y ago
HN is the only place where I can read people's comments complaining about how the JavaScript ecosystem needs to move at even faster pace than it is now and just a few submissions away, watch people complain about hardware change.
- revicon 10y ago
  For me anyway, I don't care as much about software changes because I have lots of choice, and can rewrite something or switct to another software package if I want to. There is literally nothing on the market that matches apple's battery life on their laptops so any changes they make that are deal breakers for me are a big deal.
  - Tiksi 10y ago
    If battery life is your main criteria, the thinkpad x260 gets 17+ hours of real world usage battery life, and the x250 gets over 22 (from what I remember) if you add the superbay battery.
    - etatoby 10y ago
      Are they light and thin and durable and with high-quality chips and well-tested hardware and perfect integration between OS and hardware and calibrated displays and ... you get the idea. There's a reason pro users pay the Apple premium for laptops. But I wonder if Apple is really making a smart choice. Alienating the tech / UNIX people, as few as we may be in the grand scheme of things, may hurt them in the long run.
      - Tiksi 10y ago
        That's why I said "If battery life is your main criteria" in hopes of avoiding this kind of predictable response. People have different preferences/needs. Pro users get plenty of non-mac laptops with "high quality chips" (I didn't know Intel made them worse for everyone but Apple) and hardware. Also the x2xx Thinkpads are probably far, far more durable than any macbook, but that's unrelated to battery life.
ssijak 10y ago
So much complaining about something that we didn't even yet seen in action. Guys from Apple are not that stupid to remove f1-12 keys and put something completely useless and UX unfriendly, give them a chance of showing it first and then complain. And all the other talk about ports, magsafe and other stuff that are just guesses, why do you complain about something that is not even confirmed?
- revelation 10y ago
  Right, who would put only a single USB port on a device? Haha! No way they screw this up.
- davidwdan 10y ago
  I'm hoping that it'll have contextual function and escape keys that use the taptic engine. I'd be able to live with that.
- zouhair 10y ago
  I am really curious to see how using Vim without a physical Escape key would work.
  - ohsonice 10y ago
    New in Sierra, they allow for native remapping of caps lock to esc. I had been using a 3rd party solution to do this before the update. Won't make everyone happy but the number of Vim users using the Esc key as opposed to Ctrl+[ (or caps lock) has to be decreasing ..
    - raystar 10y ago
      To save other a search I found out how here: http://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2016/remapping-caps-lock-key-escape-macos-sierra http://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2016/remapping-caps-lock-ke...
    - raystar 10y ago
      To save other a search I found out how here: http://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2016/remapping-caps-lock-key-escape-macos-sierra http://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2016/remapping-caps-lock-ke...
pasbesoin 10y ago
So, who's going to be first with an after-market "bumpy" "screensaver" appliqué for this, to simulate at least to some degree a "key texture"? Alternatively, will/could it (at some point) have localized haptic feedback? P.S. I'd like to see some "edge-on" photographs that show whether and to what extent the relative exposure/relief of the top row of keys and the bar cause the bar to "hide behind" the higher relief of the keys, making it more difficult to touch without triggering one of those keys, particularly for a touch-typist or someone hitting the bar frequently.
tetraodonpuffer 10y ago
so if there is an API for applications to modify this magic toolbar, does it mean that while the application with the custom toolbar is running I can't change screen brightness or mute the sound etc? hopefully there is some shortcut that forces the magic toolbar to 'alt-tab' to the 'system defaults' view...
- catbird 10y ago
  It looks like there's still a function button in the bottom left corner, so maybe that is used to switch the mode of the 'function strip.'
graeme 10y ago
So will it be full of blue light at night? I'm guessing a lot of MacBook Pro users are flux users. I certainly am.
- bobwaycott 10y ago
  I'd expect the brightness is tied to keyboard brightness. Not that that answers the question about blue light. To that end, I'd wager first version won't be sporting anything like Night Shift / flux.
  - graeme 10y ago
    You can turn keyboard brightness fully off. Guessing that would make the magic bar non functional.
    - bobwaycott 10y ago
      Unless they make the simple decision to prevent it from going 100% off.
      - graeme 10y ago
        Oh, sorry, that was what I meant to imply: the blue light couldn't be turned off
wodenokoto 10y ago
Is anybody else impressed with how accurate the artist rendition that has been floating around for almost a year is? comparison: http://imgur.com/a/KDOGq http://imgur.com/a/KDOGq
- Artemis2 10y ago
  That's uncanny.
- desdiv 10y ago
  IIRC that artist rendition is based on the leaked spy shots of the actual milled aluminum case[0]. [0] http://www.cultofmac.com/430982/spy-photos-all-but-confirm-2016-macbook-pros-oled-touchpad/ http://www.cultofmac.com/430982/spy-photos-all-but-confirm-2...
  - fiatpandas 10y ago
    This is correct. The imgur description incorrectly dates the renderings from 2015. They actually came out a little over a week after the leaked body photos.
    - wodenokoto 10y ago
      The picture is stamped with 2015 along with artist and website.
      - desdiv 10y ago
        Here's a blog post[0] from the artist on 2016-03-30 depicting a MacBook Pro concept. No OLED bar, and the ports are wrong. Then the spy shots leaked on 2016-05-31. After that, the artist released his corrected renderings[1] on 2016-06-09, and backdated it to 2015 for some reason. [0] http://www.martinhajek.com/new-macbook-pro-concept/ http://www.martinhajek.com/new-macbook-pro-concept/ [1] http://www.martinhajek.com/macbook-meets-oled/ http://www.martinhajek.com/macbook-meets-oled/
rayiner 10y ago
I've had Macbooks for about a decade, and I'm excited about these changes. The OLED bar is kind of gimmicky, but OS X apps (unlike Windows ones), don't really use the function keys much. The MB keyboard is good--what it lacks in key travel it more than makes up for in key stability. Also, good riddance to Magsafe. The worst part of the Macbook experience is Apple's incredibly fragile and shitty chargers/cables. Being able to use off-the-shelf braided USB-C cables is going to be awesome.
- no1youknowz 10y ago
  > Also, good riddance to Magsafe. What's wrong with magsafe? Owner of a mid 2012 MBPr here and I loved it.
  - rayiner 10y ago
    I've bought four 85 watt magsafe 2 chargers in the last couple of years (my wife and I both have rMBPs), and all but one has frayed: http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/magsafe-cable-frayed-any-suggested-fixes.1746161 http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/magsafe-cable-frayed-any.... It'll be great to not have to use Apple's chargers/cables anymore.
    - no1youknowz 10y ago
      Not had that happen to me as yet. Anyway, the register [0] mentions that a magsafe type C adaptor may be introduced either by Apple or 3rd Party. Personally, I like the magsafe design. It has been useful the past 4 years. [0] http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2475007/macbook-pro-leak-points-to-skylake-2tb-ssd-and-magsafe-usb-c-adaptor http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2475007/macbook-pro...
      - ashark 10y ago
        Every Macbook that's entered my house over the last ~6 years (4 work, 2 personal) has had its adapter abused horribly, and none of them have frayed. Meanwhile they've saved all of them from multiple rapidly-getting-friendly-with-the-floor events (kids). One thing I don't do is wrap the Magsafe end around those little prongs when I pack it. I just bunch it up roughly and toss it in the bag. Maybe that's what frays it?
synaesthesisx 10y ago
Why does Apple still insist on such large bezels when the industry is shifting away from those for displays? Rather than potentially usable display area we have more large bezels, yet again. Take the 12" Mac for instance - Apple had no problem shrinking the bottom half of the computer yet retained the large bezels, whereas they could've utilized the area to place a larger display panel in while retaining the same footprint. The resulting incongruence looks odd IMO. Mockup of what I think the display should look like: https://i.imgur.com/BypLsSl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/BypLsSl.jpg
- fiatpandas 10y ago
  You may like that scheme from a functional standpoint, but Apple would never produce something like that. From a design standpoint, it looks bad when you place a sharp corner so close to the screen fillet. The extra breathing room feels much better. They may reduce the bezel in the future, but IMO that would be done in the midst of a MB redesign.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
    At the very least, the bezel should be at least as wide as the corner radius.
  - redial 10y ago
    > Apple would never produce something like that Famous last words. The titanium powerbook had very small bezels for its time (2001), and I remember Steve Jobs when introducing it claiming that at the edge the cursor was almost gonna fall off. Of course this doesn't mean they'll do it again, but they certainly experimented with the idea before.
    - jackvalentine 10y ago
      Yep and the powerbook has a much... sharper? external corner (https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/OluAXYWRtcY3jVxu.large https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/OluAXYWRtcY3jVxu.l...) and still a way larger bezel than the above mockup.
LaSombra 10y ago
I hope the API to use it isn't restricted to App Store applications.
0mp 10y ago
I wonder if the lack of the Escape button will force Vim users to start using Control-[ instead.
- wffurr 10y ago
  Or start remapping caps lock to escape, which is now possible in the keyboard preferences as of MacOS 10.12.1, which the leaked images are from.
  - 0mp 10y ago
    Assuming that you've not remapped caps lock already to something else like control.
    - chongli 10y ago
      I've remaped caps lock to control. I use vi and press caps-[ to achieve my escape to command mode.
      - weaksauce 10y ago
        why not something like jj or jk? inoremap jj <Esc> also, mapping the leader to spacebar is great mapleader=" " and finally nnoremap Q @@ map the Q key to replay the last macro you used... much nicer than using @r or @g or whatever every time you want to replay the macro.
        duckfruit 10y ago
        I tried mapping jj to esc, but even after a few days I couldn't really get used to it. Always drove me crazy when it would switch modes when I just intended to type 'jj' as a variable name in loops. At least it got me to use more meaningful names! Your latter suggestions are brilliant, I'm going to steal them right away.
        dmlittle 10y ago
frandroid 10y ago
Apple, why are you breaking something that works well. First the headphone jack, now this.
- marricks 10y ago
  I use function keys a lot for programming, but there's plenty of apps I don't need them for. Having context aware buttons sounds like a nice step, especially if it has the ability to securely store and use my credit card for purchases. How about going boldly into the future rather than being tied down to something which doesn't get a ton of use in most situations! *Edit: of course my reply doesn't have anything to do with the headphone jack. For simplicity and space removing the jack made sense, but for ease of use and standards there's good arguments for keeping the it around. I argue this case is different because it's not widely used and it's prior use (fn keys) can be duped by the magic bar.
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    Streamlining impulse purchases hardly feels like innovation. Feels more like "what's left to keep AAPL stock price up?"
    - toyg 10y ago
      > Streamlining impulse purchases hardly feels like innovation Tell that to Amazon.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
    - st3v3r 10y ago
      You act like that's the only reason for this.
  - cm2187 10y ago
    Excel pretty much requires the function keys too.
akubera 10y ago
I hope they still include a physical power button somewhere on the device, though I don't see it on any leaked keyboard pictures.
- garrettgrimsley 10y ago
  http://imgur.com/gallery/G8u98 http://imgur.com/gallery/G8u98
yladiz 10y ago
I don't mind this too much, although I do use the escape key a lot while programming or doing other things, so that will take some getting used to if I end up going with that new form factor (and if they don't release a laptop that has physical keys there as well). In fact, if they do provide tactile sensations ala the keyboard in the MacBook or the TouchID sensor in the iPhone 7, it might be better because the keys can be visually mapped. I'm unsure if they're removing the other ports, such as MagSafe and the SD card port, but I hope they don't. I wouldn't mind having to buy a dongle for HDMI output since I use it so rarely, but I do use the SD card slot semi occasionally as a photographer, and I don't see the advantage of USB-C over MagSafe. Additionally, using USB-C could open up non-tech savvy users to even more issues than the current fake/non-approved MagSafe power bricks being sold on Amazon etc.
smegel 10y ago
This seems gimicky and anti-Apple.
- curiousgal 10y ago
  Jobs' Apple perhaps. Not this one.
- dabernathy89 10y ago
  'gimicky' seems to imply that this wouldn't be that useful - while I understand the complaints bout removing the function keys, it seems like there could be a lot of really cool and useful uses for the magic toolbar
jvehent 10y ago
Lenovo tried this in the 2nd generation of the carbon X1 and swiftly went back to the traditional F keys in gen 3. I had to use one of those for a short while, it was highly unpleasant. http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-carbon-2/ http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-ca...
- simlevesque 10y ago
  Apple's motto is : do smart thing that others did but smarter.
  - dashoffset 10y ago
    It's easier when you control the OS and the hardware.
    - dmlittle 10y ago
      But it's harder to control the OS and the hardware.
    - toyg 10y ago
      But it's much harder to write your own OS in 2016, there's a reason nobody else does it. Think about the "enhancing" crapware most vendors deploy on their Windows machines, then scale it up to the entire OS. Yeah, it would be that bad. We have to give it to Apple for still crafting their OS themselves like it was 1985, and doing a very good job at it.
      - dashoffset 10y ago
        Agreed. I was not criticising Apple, by the way.
    - redial 10y ago
      It only looks easier because all the hard work went into creating a desirable combination of os-hardware that they could control.
DominikR 10y ago
I'm fine with the USB-C ports and buying a new set of cables but I'm not sure about the Magic Toolbar. I frequently use the F keys for shortcuts in my IDE, might be painful to adjust to this. Edit: The USB-C ports are actually a great feature for me, I plan to buy a monitor with USB-C that can both act as an USB hub, charge the Macbook and use the USB-C cable to receive the video data. (all by using a single cable) I'll then have one of these monitors both at home and in the office.
- qb45 10y ago
  How do you USB-C guys deal with things like mice or pendrives?
  - DominikR 10y ago
    I personally will mostly use it as a desktop replacement where I connect only one cable that goes to an UBS hub, monitor and will also charge the MacBook. Mouse and Keyboard will be Bluetooth which I already use and that works well for me. Regarding pendrives: I'll need to buy a new one, that sucks obviously, but I also have to say that I almost never used them although I bought an expensive one from Corsair just in case. In most cases I just used Google Drive to make that data available on all of my devices.
johnwheeler 10y ago
I hope they don't forego the USB port on the next MacBook pro.
- revelation 10y ago
  I can see them moving to 60GHz exclusively.. ;) Rechargeable, wireless USB cables. That will be amazing.
exstudent2 10y ago
Moves like this are quickly pushing me away from Macbooks for dev. I need a *nix backend though. Does anyone know what the state of the art for Linux laptops is?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- Jonnax 10y ago
  Dell XPS laptops have a Developer variant that ships with Ubuntu.
  - willchang 10y ago
    "currently unavailable" http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd
    - kevinherron 10y ago
      It's not really unavailable: http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-9360-laptop/pd http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-9360-laptop/pd Mine arrived last week. It's been great so far.
- devereaux 10y ago
  Thinkpad W530, i7 3940xm, 32Gb RAM, with a xx20 keyboard. If that's too big, T430.
- rastii 10y ago
  I recommend system76 laptops: https://system76.com/laptops https://system76.com/laptops
  - xmlblog 10y ago
    But why are they so UGLY?
awinder 10y ago
I was having a hard enough time with the AMD graphics rumors in lieu of the awesomeness going on right now with the 1060/1070 in laptops, but damn apple, way to throw in some real crazy with axing the escape key
- notjustanymike 10y ago
  First the headphone jack, now the escape key. There's a difference between courage and stupidity.
  - Analemma_ 10y ago
    There was a James Bond villain (make of that what you will) who defined that difference as being measured only by success; i.e., if Apple still sells a bunch of these, then it was a good idea.
    - tajen 10y ago
      > If Apple still sells a bunch of these, then it was a good idea Nope, it will just prove that Apple has no competitor in the field of quality computers. I would still buy a Macbook if they sold the 2009 (even for the price of today). With or without Force Touch, which is bad UI, just like removing the Esc key.
- timdorr 10y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if they axe the headphone jack too...
  - andromeduck 10y ago
    Well it's not as if they're teing to make it ip67 or anywhere near as volume constrained as on the iPhone.
- clifanatic 10y ago
  > axing the escape key vi users, prepare to revolt!
davesque 10y ago
Unfortunately, it looks a bit like they're going with the ultra-low key travel keyboards on these new models. Very disappointed to see this. I don't understand why Apple thinks its users want this.
- malft 10y ago
  Secure payments? If you hook up a display to the secure enclave, suddenly it's really expensive for malware to steal your money. (Sorry, replied to the wrong comment and apparently can't delete now?)
  - davesque 10y ago
    I don't understand how key-travel distance has anything to do with secure payments. Edit: Parent replied to wrong comment it seems.
  - corndoge 10y ago
    How does your comment have anything to do with key travel?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- gkoberger 10y ago
  While I'm not a fan either, don't confuse "what I want" with "what users want".
  - davesque 10y ago
    That's what I'm saying though. I know that other people might want this, but I have a hard time understanding how that could be true. Did anyone really ask for it?
    - rayiner 10y ago
      I want it! The butterfly keyboards are fantastic. If you hit a key on a corner, they don't "roll" like keyboards with more travel do. Also, they're thinner and all else being equal will allow for a bigger battery (or maintaining battery size while making the laptop thinner).
jasonjei 10y ago
So I have the unenviable position of having to support a C++ application with Visual Studio as the build tool. I use a Mac and VMware. Does that mean working within Visual Studio is going to be a lot harder given the Func keys are gone?
- st3v3r 10y ago
  Presumably, the bar is going to be context aware. So you could set it to display a normal function key setup. You might even be able to customize it yourself, so you could make keys for it.
  - manarth 10y ago
    I would expect the default to be unchanged from normal function keys, unless an app declares its custom context.
gjvc 10y ago
...and STILL has a caps-lock key.
- andreygrehov 10y ago
  This is a very valid point. I would never miss a caps-lock key, but I will definitely miss the physical presence of a native Esc.
- rcthompson 10y ago
  I've seen many non-technical users, and even a few programmers, who exclusively use the caps lock for typing upper case letters. It's maddening to watch them type, but you can't argue that it's a widely-used key.
  - rcthompson 10y ago
    Oops, I meant to say "you can't argue that it's not a widely-used key".
  - brazzledazzle 10y ago
    Have you ever pointed it out to them? I'd be torn between being rude and being driven mad by the inefficiency of it.
    - nikolak 10y ago
      I'm one of the people that does that. While I assume it's less efficient than using shift, once you get really used to it I would argue that there isn't a big difference, and that it's not as inefficient as you think. At least for day to day use and writing code.
      - qb45 10y ago
        Try this one weird trick: rest index fingers on these raised bumps on F and J and other fingers on the keys next to them. Then when you type, hit each key with the closest finger. Try this for some time and you will see the light ;)
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
kruhft 10y ago
I like the builtin fingerprint reader if that means I don't have to type my password to login. Love it on the phone, hope it works on the laptop.
dennyabraham 10y ago
Is it coincidental that the leaked image is of a user buying bluetooth headphones?
- bobwaycott 10y ago
  Subtle foreshadowing of removing the headphone jack from the Mac lineup.
hn_user2 10y ago
I'm really surprised by the negative reactions to the context bar. Does everyone really have memorized what all 12 function keys do in every app they use? I think this could tremendously help usability for pretty much every application other than my IDE, since I do have those memorized. Being able to hit a function key without looking? I may be able to to touch type. But I've never trusted myself to hit a function key blindly. I will say. Stepping through code could be difficult. Where I repeatedly am stepping over lines while looking at the screen. I imagine my finger could drift. Couldn't say without using it, but I imagine I would keep one finger on a number to ground my hand while tapping step over or step in.
- dikaiosune 10y ago
  Do you never use the Esc key without looking?
  - kauegimenes 10y ago
    What about ctrl + c?
    - dikaiosune 10y ago
      If I understand your suggestion, ctrl+c doesn't work in all the contexts where I use escape (modal dialogs, editor autocomplete popups, etc).
  - hn_user2 10y ago
    Honestly. Can't really think of when I use escape to give a real answer. I think I could hit it without looking, but I don't think I hit escape that often. Or maybe I use it all the time and won't notice until it's gone. But yeah. If ^[ or caps lock mapping is not an option, and your workflow requires a lot of escape presses, it could be annoying to have to look down to hit it.
    - vmasto 10y ago
      Get out of a dialog quicky. Get out of the OS popup (e.g. File save). Get out of the current context in your editor/IDE (e.g. Search etc) Cancel something. Cmd+esc takes you to the previous up from cmd+tab (instead of cmd+shift+tab). Ever wanted to cancel drag and drop?! Honestly the Esc key is indispensible.
andreygrehov 10y ago
I wonder if Apple gathers any statistics on the most pressed keyboard keys. That could be a reason why they decided to go with the OLED touch panel as a replacement for function keys.
efvxcgci 10y ago
This is the end of Apple. I've been using MAC for over 100 years and this is the final straw. I'll never buy another product from MAC. No function keys on the MACbook, no headphone jack on the Iphone, less space than a nomad. It's bad enough that I need all these dongles for my headphones, SCSI CD drives, and CueCats, and now I need to get even more dongles for my function keys. I knew MAC was going to fail ever since they released the underpowered and un-upgradable toy Imac.
- NinoScript 10y ago
  Can't tell if this guy is being sarcastic.
  - mturmon 10y ago
    Sarcastic, but yes, this is hard to discern. "CueCat" is the tell.
suprgeek 10y ago
Multiple puzzling decisions - 1) The Esc and the Space keys are the two I most often use without looking - now I have to f*ing look down to hit esc? 2)What about a hard boot? Is the power key now a soft key as well? Non-removable battery and a soft reboot key do not make a good mix 3) Key press and travel distance look to be shallow - not a very satisfying experience 4) Please don't make it any thinner at the expense of ports or battery life 5) The charging port is no longer Magsafe All in all seems a bit more gimmicky and "change for change's sake" rather than a solid upgrade
- serge2k 10y ago
  But it's thinner and lighter. Jony Ive says thinner and lighter will make it better.
- pcr0 10y ago
  You could map Esc to Caps lock, like most Vim users do.
  - itomato 10y ago
    "Most" vim users do not do this. Control, perhaps.
    - tomsthumb 10y ago
      `inore kj <ESC>` or similar
- feelix 10y ago
  > 2)What about a hard boot? Is the power key now a soft key as well? Non-removable battery and a soft reboot key do not make a good mix Are you seriously implying that you think that Apple would make a laptop whereby if it kernel panics and you need to hard reboot, now there is no way to do that because they accidentally made the power key a soft key? (And I'll add the power key has been a soft key for some years now already)
  - deleted 10y ago
tdkl 10y ago
Time to make the top row with Esc and function keys as an external keyboard. If didn't Apple already done that, since they're an accessories company lately.
pkamb 10y ago
Looks like my app PowerKey just got sherlocked... https://github.com/pkamb/PowerKey https://github.com/pkamb/PowerKey
deleted 10y ago
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WiseWeasel 10y ago
Just imagine playing Pong or Shufflepuck with that input. This will revolutionize paddle-based gaming all over again!
chuckreynolds 10y ago
so the rumors look mostly true. WIN. #takemymoney
ikawe 10y ago
Finally, an excuse for the rest of you vi users to remap Caps Lock to escape. You won't regret it!
ikawe 10y ago
Finally, an excuse for the rest of you vi users to remap Caps Lock to escape. You won't regret it!
ikawe 10y ago
Finally, an excuse for the rest of you vi users to remap Caps Lock to escape. You won't regret it!
muninn_ 10y ago
Am I the only one questioning this "leak" ? How often does Apple leak things on their own website?
- ianferrel 10y ago
  They didn't leak it on their website. They leaked it in the actual OS. The OS, presumably, includes a "how do I do this new thing" helper, which shows you a picture of the hardware they're about to release (which is going to ship with this OS).
  - muninn_ 10y ago
    Looking at the post, it looks like it was something leaked on a website not the OS. At least it did to me.
    - ianferrel 10y ago
      Both the title and the first sentence say that it was leaked in the OS. What made you think "website"?
- Tepix 10y ago
  Yes, you are the only one.
geerlingguy 10y ago
It looks like the Touch ID area/button is physically separate, and I'm guessing it will function similarly to the home button on iOS devices (touch to power on/wake, and it scans your fingerprint at the same time): http://imgur.com/gallery/G8u98 http://imgur.com/gallery/G8u98
ungzd 10y ago
Reminds me of https://www.artlebedev.ru/optimus/ https://www.artlebedev.ru/optimus/ keyboard
sklivvz1971 10y ago
I wonder how well (or badly) this is going to work when using an external keyboard. I don't mind using the inbuilt keyboard and screen of a laptop for limited time, but in my case, for proper coding and serious usage, nothing beats a mechanical keyboard and a real mouse.
chvid 10y ago
Great with some new ideas on what's in a basic laptop. I wonder: this would need some kind of software support so that the focused application would write what to display on the keyboard? Meaning it would work only with a small set of applications in the beginning. Also I wonder if this feature will make it into apple's external keyboards?
mkj 10y ago
It will be interesting to see how well they use their new hardware unspoofable UI. Puts Apple Pay ahead of most other payments in terms of security.
situationista 10y ago
If the new MacBook Pros are indeed USB-C only, Apple's just given me a great incentive to ditch the iPhone (with its proprietary Lightning standard) and move over to a USB-C compatible phone (such as Google Pixel). At long last a single charger for all devices could be visible on the horizon... another self-inflicted nail in the coffin for Apple's closed-ecosystem supremacy in mobile.
dcosson 10y ago
I wonder if they'll consider giving the next iphone a usb-c port too. If they're really going to be consolidating to a single port I could get on board. Changing yet another standard connector but still requiring everyone to keep around 2 types of chargers (now exactly the same size) seems pretty obnoxious even for Apple.
itomato 10y ago
I can only hope the Magic Toolbar allows me to span 'Esc' across the whole thing. A meter alternating between battery capacity and wifi strength would be a nice touch. Testing the keyboard on the Macbook, I found the action too stiff for my taste. Not jazzed about the short travel, either. Here's hoping.
consultant1 10y ago
For swift and legit hack. Forward your prompts to eurekahackers147{@}tuta.io. He is reliable and got proof to show for his work.
locusm 10y ago
At that thickness wont this have serious thermal throttling like iMac's do for GPU or CPU?
beedogs 10y ago
No escape key? This company is an absolute joke now. Guess it's back to Windows on a PC for me.
chx 10y ago
Lenovo did this to ThinkPads. They backed down. Apple will do this. They will be heralded as true innovators, every laptop maker, including Lenovo will copy them and thus we get further from usable laptop keyboard by another step.
alpineidyll3 10y ago
Macs are already dead to me. It's become impossible to use them without some new nag notification every time I want to run new software or even just do anything without massaging itunes/icloud/siri continuously. This is just another nail in the coffin. Adios OSX, hello well-made ubuntu ready macbook clones.
rsync 10y ago
Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait ... wait. Where. Where is the escape key. Where is the escape key ?
rsync 10y ago
Tomorrow is the day when I run to store.apple.com and buy the maxed out 11" macbook air - even though my current 11" macbook air works perfectly. I need a decent laptop to do my work. A laptop without a physical escape key is not a decent laptop. Therefore, I will stockpile a second one so as to delay by 3-4 years the need to "switch".
- comex 10y ago
  Do you have the caps lock key already mapped to control then? Or do you actually use the caps lock functionality? I've had caps lock mapped to escape for years on my MacBook Pro for the sake of Vim. It's so much nicer to hit with the pinky than reaching all the way up to the tiny 'esc' button in the function row, it's not even funny.
  - robinson-wall 10y ago
    You can have both with Karabiner (though it doesn't work with Sierra yet). Caps lock can be control if held down and used as a modifier with another key, but if pressed and released sends Esc instead.
- the_imp 10y ago
  Have you considered whether you also need a laptop with a physical caps lock key to do your work? If you do not, then perhaps you do not need to invest in a brand new old laptop right now, but could instead remap your caps lock key to work as escape.
Karupan 10y ago
I'm done with Apple's "Magic" features. I'm sticking to my old 2012 MBP retina till it gives up the ghost, and then picking up a Dell XPS 13", which still has familiar keys. I'm all for evolution, but change for the sake of change means I've to unlearn years of muscle memory and relearn something that is specific to only Apple's hardware. No thanks!
anfogoat 10y ago
Unfortunately, this looks like it's going to increase usability a great deal for ppl who are always running macOS and using the latest GUI apps from AppStore and is therefore going to be in future MBP models as well. Personally, tapping on a flat surface for my ESC and F-keys -- assuming they're even available -- is something I'll refuse to adapt to.
- taurath 10y ago
  But, I mean, you can have nyan cat going across your keyboard at all times, which makes up for a lot of adaptation problems.
kriro 10y ago
I wonder if the bar will be customizable (both icons and functionality) or if we have to live with what Apple provides for different programs. Would love to map things I commonly do for bash or some generators etc. For touch typing I could also see just mapping the left, middle and right roughly so I only have to hit one of the buttons in that group for three extra buttons.
beilabs 10y ago
OK, it's time for me to dive back into the land of linux for my development machine. Recommendations welcome, looking for something with similar specs to current maxed out mac airs 11". Recommendations welcome!
- matt4077 10y ago
  I'd recommend the current maxed out mac air 11". It's very close in specs to what you're looking for, can run linux natively and has all the function keys you want. Also: it runs macOS, which is really cool as an OS.
vr46 10y ago
I didn't realize that the keyboard needed disrupting - nearly all my function keys are mapped in Vim or used in other ways for fast switching, or other types of automation. I can't wait to see how they flog the Magic Toolbar to the visually impaired. Apple have turned into Big Brother and their hardware upgrades seem inspired by NewSpeak. Doubleplus ungood, Apple.
deno 10y ago
Everyone’s here focusing on usability aspects, but in fact this is a great security feature more than anything[1]. Security research has been calling for something like this for a long time. Any “enterprise” laptop brand should have been shipping this five years ago. [1] Assuming they don’t let apps just display anything there.
- jpalomaki 10y ago
  This is actually the thing that I've been kind of missing from computers now that they come with the secure enclave, TPM and other solutions for securely storing encryption keys. It would be pretty great if there was a way for the security chip to communicate directly with user to for example show a clear text version of the bank transaction I'm about to sign with my secret key.
  - deno 10y ago
    There’s really no reason to have a separate plain text confirmation here, just an indication that what you’re seeing on screen is not a phishing attempt by a rouge app[1]. A single ‘secure mode’ LED would suffice really. How come no one can even ‘innovate’ this little, other than Apple? [1] Obviously though this is better, because it can be completely driven by the secure path, as you say. Also the axed Escape key is a textbook tactic to cause fake controversy to get free marketing.
kdeldycke 10y ago
No wonder the maintainer of Karabiner ( https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/ https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/ ), one of the most powerful keyboard customizer on OSX, had to start rewriting it from scratch for macOS. Maybe the underlaying keyboard/accessibility APIs in macOS have changed so much it forced a rewrite. If that's the case then I'm starting to see the macOS major release policy as being as conservative as possible. I.e. no introduction of unnecessary changes unless it warrants advancements in hardware integration.
kybernetyk 10y ago
Oh, no physical escape key? That's a show stopper. (Already have ctrl mapped to caps lock so re-mapping esc isn't really feasible for me).
- modiho 10y ago
  You can have both, so that escape is triggered when you tap caps lock, and ctrl is triggered when you hold caps lock. I followed this article to set it up on my MacBook http://www.economyofeffort.com/2014/08/11/beyond-ctrl-remap-make-that-caps-lock-key-useful/ http://www.economyofeffort.com/2014/08/11/beyond-ctrl-remap-...
vladimir-y 10y ago
Let's try it in action, but for now I presume it's more like an marketing thing than a practical need (I'm fine with usual fn keys). A thing which is supposed to keep Apple to be named as an innovative company. Also will this "magic" work on Linux if I put it on a new Macbook?
dep_b 10y ago
A thought: would it be possible with some kind of feedback like the touchpad or iPhone 6S uses to simulate the feel not only of pressing keys but also the feeling of your finger sliding over them without actually pressing them? I mean I can find the ESC key blindly even if it isn't actually there anymore, but the brightness up key is for me goes like "find ESC key, slide two to the right".

250 points by coloneltcb 10y ago

frou_dh 10y ago

The hardware 'Esc' key has got the boot. Controversy incoming.

internobody 10y ago
No volume keys either
pklausler 10y ago
What will vi users do?
- tachion 10y ago
  'Hey Siri, emulate pressing escape button on keyboard now, please'.
  - heywire 10y ago
    Siri: "I've searched the web for "emulate pressing escape button on keyboard now" for you":
- grantbachman 10y ago
  Continue mapping Escape to Caps Lock like we always do :)
- lojack 10y ago
  Caps -> Esc
- sctb 10y ago
  The escape character is ^[ and can always be typed that way.
  - frou_dh 10y ago
    Have you noticed the correspondence between these alternate terminal incantations and the resultant codes they produce? If an ASCII table is laid out in columns of 32, they are on the same row, e.g. (3) ETX <-- C (67) (4) EOT <-- D (68) (8) BS <-- H (72) (27) ESC <-- [ (91) I was happy to find some order in what previously seemed arcane stuff.
- elcapitan 10y ago
  Remap caps lock - To be honest, that super-thin row of Esc/F-keys on the 11" Air has been totally useless anyway for real typing, so if I go from there to a new Pro, I wouldn't really miss that stuff.
- toor2 10y ago
  Using escape in vi is an anti pattern. Use control-[
  - vr46 10y ago
    Why is it an anti-pattern? Surely a single press is more efficient than two?
- tucif 10y ago
  I usually do C-c or A-j/k/... Esc is not that central to vi.
- legulere 10y ago
  `imap jj <Esc>` as there are basically no words with two consecutive j's (I use hh for colemak instead)
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
benologist 10y ago
I'm curious what's going to happen to co-installed operating systems that still rely on those keys.
- dandr01d 10y ago
  They don't want co-installed operating systems. Just like they don't want wired headphones.
  - benologist 10y ago
    I was just thinking that earlier today when I was enabling installing apps from "anywhere", which is now a hidden option that can only be enabled from the command line.
    - X-Istence 10y ago
      You can still install apps from anywhere. The hidden option allows you to bypass gatekeeper, which IMHO is a fantastic security feature that stops people from installing potential malware or unsigned binaries.
    - nicky0 10y ago
      Right click the app and choose "Open". No need to turn it on globally.
- grzm 10y ago
  I think it's a good possibility that for operation systems, and even applications that don't take advantage of the bar that there's a default that behaves like the existing key row.
- TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
  All Apple hardware has Windows drivers thanks to Boot Camp. So presumably those drivers will display function keys. Linux and the like will be interesting, though.
romanovcode 10y ago
courage

serge2k 10y ago

Alright, I think the touch bar thing is stupid but really I use those keys for volume/brightness almost exclusively. So I can probably live with that. edit: Aw crud, I do use escape when I'm editing in vim from time to time. Not having HDMI on the 15" is annoying. Not having SD is annoying. I didn't use the HDMI port a ton, but it was nice to have. SD I really only use for photos. Losing magsafe is probably the worst thing here. Oh well, my 2013 is still going strong so it's not like I'm really in the market for a new macbook.

ashark 10y ago
No magsafe and taking out all those other conveniences means I can consider other vendors for the first time in years—but only because the MacBook will have gotten worse, which is kind of a sad reason for it.
- endemic 10y ago
  I have a venerable 2010 MBP that I'm considering replacing in the near future, but (as you mention) the new hardware is not compelling. The thing I can't figure out is whether or not my gripes are legitimate, or if I'm losing brain plasticity (i.e. getting old).

usaphp 10y ago

Please, not those stupid left/right arrow keys, leave them as they are on current macbook pro, I need spacing between them so I can touch feel them.

revelation 10y ago

No function keys, so the "magic toolbar" will for 99% of the time just be a generic toolbar? That smacks of the Android decision to do away with physical keys and instead just display them all the time. Wasting valuable screen real estate and power for a bad emulation of buttons.

rcthompson 10y ago

I once owned a Dell laptop that used a strip of touch-sensitive regions for volume and media control. In practice they were completely useless, because without looking, it just felt like one continuous bar with nothing differentiating the buttons, so the lack of any tactile feedback made it impossible to use those "buttons" without looking at them. In my 4 years of owning that laptop, I was never able to build any muscle memory for hitting those buttons. I'm worried that the same will be true of this magic toolbar.

kirkdouglas 10y ago
I guess it was Dell Studio.
- rcthompson 10y ago
  I believe it was an XPS 13.
heywire 10y ago
As someone who spends most my workday in Visual Studio, I can relate. I would have a real tough time breaking that muscle memory.
draw_down 10y ago
Something tells me Apple knows a bit more about how to build a touch interface than Dell does.
- khedoros1 10y ago
  If the core issues are that there's no tactile feedback and that button locations can shift depending on context, then Apple made the same mistakes that Dell did. The problem is that no matter how well-designed it is, a keyboard used for touch-typing is the wrong place for a smooth, capacitive sensor.
  - ceterum_censeo 10y ago

aoki 10y ago

am i the only one who thought: "hey, apple finally implemented the ANY key!" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Any_key https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Any_key

draw_down 10y ago

The rest of them I don't care about, but I use the play/pause and volume keys often.

raldi 10y ago

The article mentions that there's no longer an escape key; command-line users, get ready to switch to Ctrl-[ from now on. Not mentioned in the article: the power button is gone, too.

garrettgrimsley 10y ago
>Not mentioned in the article: the power button is gone, too. "It appears Touch ID is built into a nearly-invisible power button located next to the display."
- raldi 10y ago
  I could've sworn I'd Ctrl-Fed for "power" before posting this comment. Maybe they're editing the article as the news develops.

Esau 10y ago

Yuck.

madmax108 10y ago

Another example of Apple trying to please the masses but pushing over developers. It's silly to think that the function keys and the ESC keys are used so little that they can be removed altogether. Agree with others in the discussion that such touch sensitive regions are largely useless besides the bling factor. Also, what about the controls like screen and keyboard brightness or volume controls? Where do those go to? I use a Macbook Pro 2015 and I don't think I'll be upgrading to the new one, especially if the specs are nearly similar. Why Apple, Why do you insist on going against the standards on practically EVERYTHING? There has to be some method behind the madness.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
draw_down 10y ago
Perhaps the `fn` key will remain, and switch the bar into a mode that has screen brightness, keyboard brightness, volume, etc. I think that would work ok, but yeah, it's a shame about Esc.
- Jtsummers 10y ago
  Looks like that's the case. 'fn' is the lower left key on the Apple keyboard. 4th to the left from the space bar. The images still show a key there (but not enough to see what text is on it), but that's almost certainly still the 'fn' key.
- systoll 10y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if it's also used to make fn+` = Esc, fn+1 = F1 etc That's how my filco Minila & other 60% keyboards implement the F keys, and IMO it's an improvement. [though... I do flip the ` key to be ESC by default]
rayiner 10y ago
Some developers. Neither Emacs nor Vim use the function keys to any significant extent. Relatively rarely-used stuff like screen brightness and volume control seem like the obvious things to put on a multi-function OLED bar.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

pixelHD 10y ago

Apart from the lack of the Escape and function keys, I'm kinda bothered about the keyboard. It seems the MacBook Pro has the butterfly keys. I really hoped they won't use the butterfly keys on the MBP. Well, it's just a leaked image, so can't draw too many conclusions out of it I guess.

uptown 10y ago
The image is embedded in the latest release of Sierra, so it's basically confirmed.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
endemic 10y ago
I'm more bothered by the butterfly switches than the touchscreen strip. When the 12" MacBook was released, I stopped by a local Apple store to check it out, and left unimpressed. Better than typing on an iPad, but not by much. At the point where I'm carrying a laptop, the extra few mm for decent key travel is going to be unnoticeable.

visionscaper 10y ago

What I noticed is what I think is a thinner screen bezel, which I love. It also seems that the body is less wide. Or I'm I the only one noticing this?

andrewmcwatters 10y ago

HN is the only place where I can read people's comments complaining about how the JavaScript ecosystem needs to move at even faster pace than it is now and just a few submissions away, watch people complain about hardware change.

revicon 10y ago
For me anyway, I don't care as much about software changes because I have lots of choice, and can rewrite something or switct to another software package if I want to. There is literally nothing on the market that matches apple's battery life on their laptops so any changes they make that are deal breakers for me are a big deal.
- Tiksi 10y ago
  If battery life is your main criteria, the thinkpad x260 gets 17+ hours of real world usage battery life, and the x250 gets over 22 (from what I remember) if you add the superbay battery.
  - etatoby 10y ago
    Are they light and thin and durable and with high-quality chips and well-tested hardware and perfect integration between OS and hardware and calibrated displays and ... you get the idea. There's a reason pro users pay the Apple premium for laptops. But I wonder if Apple is really making a smart choice. Alienating the tech / UNIX people, as few as we may be in the grand scheme of things, may hurt them in the long run.
    - Tiksi 10y ago
      That's why I said "If battery life is your main criteria" in hopes of avoiding this kind of predictable response. People have different preferences/needs. Pro users get plenty of non-mac laptops with "high quality chips" (I didn't know Intel made them worse for everyone but Apple) and hardware. Also the x2xx Thinkpads are probably far, far more durable than any macbook, but that's unrelated to battery life.

ssijak 10y ago

So much complaining about something that we didn't even yet seen in action. Guys from Apple are not that stupid to remove f1-12 keys and put something completely useless and UX unfriendly, give them a chance of showing it first and then complain. And all the other talk about ports, magsafe and other stuff that are just guesses, why do you complain about something that is not even confirmed?

revelation 10y ago
Right, who would put only a single USB port on a device? Haha! No way they screw this up.
davidwdan 10y ago
I'm hoping that it'll have contextual function and escape keys that use the taptic engine. I'd be able to live with that.
zouhair 10y ago
I am really curious to see how using Vim without a physical Escape key would work.
- ohsonice 10y ago
  New in Sierra, they allow for native remapping of caps lock to esc. I had been using a 3rd party solution to do this before the update. Won't make everyone happy but the number of Vim users using the Esc key as opposed to Ctrl+[ (or caps lock) has to be decreasing ..
  - raystar 10y ago
    To save other a search I found out how here: http://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2016/remapping-caps-lock-key-escape-macos-sierra http://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2016/remapping-caps-lock-ke...
  - raystar 10y ago
    To save other a search I found out how here: http://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2016/remapping-caps-lock-key-escape-macos-sierra http://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2016/remapping-caps-lock-ke...

pasbesoin 10y ago

So, who's going to be first with an after-market "bumpy" "screensaver" appliqué for this, to simulate at least to some degree a "key texture"? Alternatively, will/could it (at some point) have localized haptic feedback? P.S. I'd like to see some "edge-on" photographs that show whether and to what extent the relative exposure/relief of the top row of keys and the bar cause the bar to "hide behind" the higher relief of the keys, making it more difficult to touch without triggering one of those keys, particularly for a touch-typist or someone hitting the bar frequently.

tetraodonpuffer 10y ago

so if there is an API for applications to modify this magic toolbar, does it mean that while the application with the custom toolbar is running I can't change screen brightness or mute the sound etc? hopefully there is some shortcut that forces the magic toolbar to 'alt-tab' to the 'system defaults' view...

catbird 10y ago
It looks like there's still a function button in the bottom left corner, so maybe that is used to switch the mode of the 'function strip.'

graeme 10y ago

So will it be full of blue light at night? I'm guessing a lot of MacBook Pro users are flux users. I certainly am.

bobwaycott 10y ago
I'd expect the brightness is tied to keyboard brightness. Not that that answers the question about blue light. To that end, I'd wager first version won't be sporting anything like Night Shift / flux.
- graeme 10y ago
  You can turn keyboard brightness fully off. Guessing that would make the magic bar non functional.
  - bobwaycott 10y ago
    Unless they make the simple decision to prevent it from going 100% off.
    - graeme 10y ago
      Oh, sorry, that was what I meant to imply: the blue light couldn't be turned off

wodenokoto 10y ago

Is anybody else impressed with how accurate the artist rendition that has been floating around for almost a year is? comparison: http://imgur.com/a/KDOGq http://imgur.com/a/KDOGq

Artemis2 10y ago
That's uncanny.
desdiv 10y ago
IIRC that artist rendition is based on the leaked spy shots of the actual milled aluminum case[0]. [0] http://www.cultofmac.com/430982/spy-photos-all-but-confirm-2016-macbook-pros-oled-touchpad/ http://www.cultofmac.com/430982/spy-photos-all-but-confirm-2...
- fiatpandas 10y ago
  This is correct. The imgur description incorrectly dates the renderings from 2015. They actually came out a little over a week after the leaked body photos.
  - wodenokoto 10y ago
    The picture is stamped with 2015 along with artist and website.
    - desdiv 10y ago
      Here's a blog post[0] from the artist on 2016-03-30 depicting a MacBook Pro concept. No OLED bar, and the ports are wrong. Then the spy shots leaked on 2016-05-31. After that, the artist released his corrected renderings[1] on 2016-06-09, and backdated it to 2015 for some reason. [0] http://www.martinhajek.com/new-macbook-pro-concept/ http://www.martinhajek.com/new-macbook-pro-concept/ [1] http://www.martinhajek.com/macbook-meets-oled/ http://www.martinhajek.com/macbook-meets-oled/

rayiner 10y ago

I've had Macbooks for about a decade, and I'm excited about these changes. The OLED bar is kind of gimmicky, but OS X apps (unlike Windows ones), don't really use the function keys much. The MB keyboard is good--what it lacks in key travel it more than makes up for in key stability. Also, good riddance to Magsafe. The worst part of the Macbook experience is Apple's incredibly fragile and shitty chargers/cables. Being able to use off-the-shelf braided USB-C cables is going to be awesome.

no1youknowz 10y ago
> Also, good riddance to Magsafe. What's wrong with magsafe? Owner of a mid 2012 MBPr here and I loved it.
- rayiner 10y ago
  I've bought four 85 watt magsafe 2 chargers in the last couple of years (my wife and I both have rMBPs), and all but one has frayed: http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/magsafe-cable-frayed-any-suggested-fixes.1746161 http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/magsafe-cable-frayed-any.... It'll be great to not have to use Apple's chargers/cables anymore.
  - no1youknowz 10y ago
    Not had that happen to me as yet. Anyway, the register [0] mentions that a magsafe type C adaptor may be introduced either by Apple or 3rd Party. Personally, I like the magsafe design. It has been useful the past 4 years. [0] http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2475007/macbook-pro-leak-points-to-skylake-2tb-ssd-and-magsafe-usb-c-adaptor http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2475007/macbook-pro...
    - ashark 10y ago
      Every Macbook that's entered my house over the last ~6 years (4 work, 2 personal) has had its adapter abused horribly, and none of them have frayed. Meanwhile they've saved all of them from multiple rapidly-getting-friendly-with-the-floor events (kids). One thing I don't do is wrap the Magsafe end around those little prongs when I pack it. I just bunch it up roughly and toss it in the bag. Maybe that's what frays it?

synaesthesisx 10y ago

Why does Apple still insist on such large bezels when the industry is shifting away from those for displays? Rather than potentially usable display area we have more large bezels, yet again. Take the 12" Mac for instance - Apple had no problem shrinking the bottom half of the computer yet retained the large bezels, whereas they could've utilized the area to place a larger display panel in while retaining the same footprint. The resulting incongruence looks odd IMO. Mockup of what I think the display should look like: https://i.imgur.com/BypLsSl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/BypLsSl.jpg

fiatpandas 10y ago
You may like that scheme from a functional standpoint, but Apple would never produce something like that. From a design standpoint, it looks bad when you place a sharp corner so close to the screen fillet. The extra breathing room feels much better. They may reduce the bezel in the future, but IMO that would be done in the midst of a MB redesign.
- TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
  At the very least, the bezel should be at least as wide as the corner radius.
- redial 10y ago
  > Apple would never produce something like that Famous last words. The titanium powerbook had very small bezels for its time (2001), and I remember Steve Jobs when introducing it claiming that at the edge the cursor was almost gonna fall off. Of course this doesn't mean they'll do it again, but they certainly experimented with the idea before.
  - jackvalentine 10y ago
    Yep and the powerbook has a much... sharper? external corner (https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/OluAXYWRtcY3jVxu.large https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/OluAXYWRtcY3jVxu.l...) and still a way larger bezel than the above mockup.

LaSombra 10y ago

I hope the API to use it isn't restricted to App Store applications.

0mp 10y ago

I wonder if the lack of the Escape button will force Vim users to start using Control-[ instead.

wffurr 10y ago
Or start remapping caps lock to escape, which is now possible in the keyboard preferences as of MacOS 10.12.1, which the leaked images are from.
- 0mp 10y ago
  Assuming that you've not remapped caps lock already to something else like control.
  - chongli 10y ago
    I've remaped caps lock to control. I use vi and press caps-[ to achieve my escape to command mode.
    - weaksauce 10y ago
      why not something like jj or jk? inoremap jj <Esc> also, mapping the leader to spacebar is great mapleader=" " and finally nnoremap Q @@ map the Q key to replay the last macro you used... much nicer than using @r or @g or whatever every time you want to replay the macro.
      - duckfruit 10y ago
        I tried mapping jj to esc, but even after a few days I couldn't really get used to it. Always drove me crazy when it would switch modes when I just intended to type 'jj' as a variable name in loops. At least it got me to use more meaningful names! Your latter suggestions are brilliant, I'm going to steal them right away.
        dmlittle 10y ago

frandroid 10y ago

Apple, why are you breaking something that works well. First the headphone jack, now this.

marricks 10y ago
I use function keys a lot for programming, but there's plenty of apps I don't need them for. Having context aware buttons sounds like a nice step, especially if it has the ability to securely store and use my credit card for purchases. How about going boldly into the future rather than being tied down to something which doesn't get a ton of use in most situations! *Edit: of course my reply doesn't have anything to do with the headphone jack. For simplicity and space removing the jack made sense, but for ease of use and standards there's good arguments for keeping the it around. I argue this case is different because it's not widely used and it's prior use (fn keys) can be duped by the magic bar.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  Streamlining impulse purchases hardly feels like innovation. Feels more like "what's left to keep AAPL stock price up?"
  - toyg 10y ago
    > Streamlining impulse purchases hardly feels like innovation Tell that to Amazon.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - st3v3r 10y ago
    You act like that's the only reason for this.
- cm2187 10y ago
  Excel pretty much requires the function keys too.

akubera 10y ago

I hope they still include a physical power button somewhere on the device, though I don't see it on any leaked keyboard pictures.

garrettgrimsley 10y ago
http://imgur.com/gallery/G8u98 http://imgur.com/gallery/G8u98

yladiz 10y ago

I don't mind this too much, although I do use the escape key a lot while programming or doing other things, so that will take some getting used to if I end up going with that new form factor (and if they don't release a laptop that has physical keys there as well). In fact, if they do provide tactile sensations ala the keyboard in the MacBook or the TouchID sensor in the iPhone 7, it might be better because the keys can be visually mapped. I'm unsure if they're removing the other ports, such as MagSafe and the SD card port, but I hope they don't. I wouldn't mind having to buy a dongle for HDMI output since I use it so rarely, but I do use the SD card slot semi occasionally as a photographer, and I don't see the advantage of USB-C over MagSafe. Additionally, using USB-C could open up non-tech savvy users to even more issues than the current fake/non-approved MagSafe power bricks being sold on Amazon etc.

smegel 10y ago

This seems gimicky and anti-Apple.

curiousgal 10y ago
Jobs' Apple perhaps. Not this one.
dabernathy89 10y ago
'gimicky' seems to imply that this wouldn't be that useful - while I understand the complaints bout removing the function keys, it seems like there could be a lot of really cool and useful uses for the magic toolbar

jvehent 10y ago

Lenovo tried this in the 2nd generation of the carbon X1 and swiftly went back to the traditional F keys in gen 3. I had to use one of those for a short while, it was highly unpleasant. http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-carbon-2/ http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-ca...

simlevesque 10y ago
Apple's motto is : do smart thing that others did but smarter.
- dashoffset 10y ago
  It's easier when you control the OS and the hardware.
  - dmlittle 10y ago
    But it's harder to control the OS and the hardware.
  - toyg 10y ago
    But it's much harder to write your own OS in 2016, there's a reason nobody else does it. Think about the "enhancing" crapware most vendors deploy on their Windows machines, then scale it up to the entire OS. Yeah, it would be that bad. We have to give it to Apple for still crafting their OS themselves like it was 1985, and doing a very good job at it.
    - dashoffset 10y ago
      Agreed. I was not criticising Apple, by the way.
  - redial 10y ago
    It only looks easier because all the hard work went into creating a desirable combination of os-hardware that they could control.

DominikR 10y ago

I'm fine with the USB-C ports and buying a new set of cables but I'm not sure about the Magic Toolbar. I frequently use the F keys for shortcuts in my IDE, might be painful to adjust to this. Edit: The USB-C ports are actually a great feature for me, I plan to buy a monitor with USB-C that can both act as an USB hub, charge the Macbook and use the USB-C cable to receive the video data. (all by using a single cable) I'll then have one of these monitors both at home and in the office.

qb45 10y ago
How do you USB-C guys deal with things like mice or pendrives?
- DominikR 10y ago
  I personally will mostly use it as a desktop replacement where I connect only one cable that goes to an UBS hub, monitor and will also charge the MacBook. Mouse and Keyboard will be Bluetooth which I already use and that works well for me. Regarding pendrives: I'll need to buy a new one, that sucks obviously, but I also have to say that I almost never used them although I bought an expensive one from Corsair just in case. In most cases I just used Google Drive to make that data available on all of my devices.

johnwheeler 10y ago

I hope they don't forego the USB port on the next MacBook pro.

revelation 10y ago
I can see them moving to 60GHz exclusively.. ;) Rechargeable, wireless USB cables. That will be amazing.

exstudent2 10y ago

Moves like this are quickly pushing me away from Macbooks for dev. I need a *nix backend though. Does anyone know what the state of the art for Linux laptops is?

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Jonnax 10y ago
Dell XPS laptops have a Developer variant that ships with Ubuntu.
- willchang 10y ago
  "currently unavailable" http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd
  - kevinherron 10y ago
    It's not really unavailable: http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-9360-laptop/pd http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-9360-laptop/pd Mine arrived last week. It's been great so far.
devereaux 10y ago
Thinkpad W530, i7 3940xm, 32Gb RAM, with a xx20 keyboard. If that's too big, T430.
rastii 10y ago
I recommend system76 laptops: https://system76.com/laptops https://system76.com/laptops
- xmlblog 10y ago
  But why are they so UGLY?

awinder 10y ago

I was having a hard enough time with the AMD graphics rumors in lieu of the awesomeness going on right now with the 1060/1070 in laptops, but damn apple, way to throw in some real crazy with axing the escape key

notjustanymike 10y ago
First the headphone jack, now the escape key. There's a difference between courage and stupidity.
- Analemma_ 10y ago
  There was a James Bond villain (make of that what you will) who defined that difference as being measured only by success; i.e., if Apple still sells a bunch of these, then it was a good idea.
  - tajen 10y ago
    > If Apple still sells a bunch of these, then it was a good idea Nope, it will just prove that Apple has no competitor in the field of quality computers. I would still buy a Macbook if they sold the 2009 (even for the price of today). With or without Force Touch, which is bad UI, just like removing the Esc key.
timdorr 10y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if they axe the headphone jack too...
- andromeduck 10y ago
  Well it's not as if they're teing to make it ip67 or anywhere near as volume constrained as on the iPhone.
clifanatic 10y ago
> axing the escape key vi users, prepare to revolt!

davesque 10y ago

Unfortunately, it looks a bit like they're going with the ultra-low key travel keyboards on these new models. Very disappointed to see this. I don't understand why Apple thinks its users want this.

malft 10y ago
Secure payments? If you hook up a display to the secure enclave, suddenly it's really expensive for malware to steal your money. (Sorry, replied to the wrong comment and apparently can't delete now?)
- davesque 10y ago
  I don't understand how key-travel distance has anything to do with secure payments. Edit: Parent replied to wrong comment it seems.
- corndoge 10y ago
  How does your comment have anything to do with key travel?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
gkoberger 10y ago
While I'm not a fan either, don't confuse "what I want" with "what users want".
- davesque 10y ago
  That's what I'm saying though. I know that other people might want this, but I have a hard time understanding how that could be true. Did anyone really ask for it?
  - rayiner 10y ago
    I want it! The butterfly keyboards are fantastic. If you hit a key on a corner, they don't "roll" like keyboards with more travel do. Also, they're thinner and all else being equal will allow for a bigger battery (or maintaining battery size while making the laptop thinner).

jasonjei 10y ago

So I have the unenviable position of having to support a C++ application with Visual Studio as the build tool. I use a Mac and VMware. Does that mean working within Visual Studio is going to be a lot harder given the Func keys are gone?

st3v3r 10y ago
Presumably, the bar is going to be context aware. So you could set it to display a normal function key setup. You might even be able to customize it yourself, so you could make keys for it.
- manarth 10y ago
  I would expect the default to be unchanged from normal function keys, unless an app declares its custom context.

gjvc 10y ago

...and STILL has a caps-lock key.

andreygrehov 10y ago
This is a very valid point. I would never miss a caps-lock key, but I will definitely miss the physical presence of a native Esc.
rcthompson 10y ago
I've seen many non-technical users, and even a few programmers, who exclusively use the caps lock for typing upper case letters. It's maddening to watch them type, but you can't argue that it's a widely-used key.
- rcthompson 10y ago
  Oops, I meant to say "you can't argue that it's not a widely-used key".
- brazzledazzle 10y ago
  Have you ever pointed it out to them? I'd be torn between being rude and being driven mad by the inefficiency of it.
  - nikolak 10y ago
    I'm one of the people that does that. While I assume it's less efficient than using shift, once you get really used to it I would argue that there isn't a big difference, and that it's not as inefficient as you think. At least for day to day use and writing code.
    - qb45 10y ago
      Try this one weird trick: rest index fingers on these raised bumps on F and J and other fingers on the keys next to them. Then when you type, hit each key with the closest finger. Try this for some time and you will see the light ;)

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

kruhft 10y ago

I like the builtin fingerprint reader if that means I don't have to type my password to login. Love it on the phone, hope it works on the laptop.

dennyabraham 10y ago

Is it coincidental that the leaked image is of a user buying bluetooth headphones?

bobwaycott 10y ago
Subtle foreshadowing of removing the headphone jack from the Mac lineup.

hn_user2 10y ago

I'm really surprised by the negative reactions to the context bar. Does everyone really have memorized what all 12 function keys do in every app they use? I think this could tremendously help usability for pretty much every application other than my IDE, since I do have those memorized. Being able to hit a function key without looking? I may be able to to touch type. But I've never trusted myself to hit a function key blindly. I will say. Stepping through code could be difficult. Where I repeatedly am stepping over lines while looking at the screen. I imagine my finger could drift. Couldn't say without using it, but I imagine I would keep one finger on a number to ground my hand while tapping step over or step in.

dikaiosune 10y ago
Do you never use the Esc key without looking?
- kauegimenes 10y ago
  What about ctrl + c?
  - dikaiosune 10y ago
    If I understand your suggestion, ctrl+c doesn't work in all the contexts where I use escape (modal dialogs, editor autocomplete popups, etc).
- hn_user2 10y ago
  Honestly. Can't really think of when I use escape to give a real answer. I think I could hit it without looking, but I don't think I hit escape that often. Or maybe I use it all the time and won't notice until it's gone. But yeah. If ^[ or caps lock mapping is not an option, and your workflow requires a lot of escape presses, it could be annoying to have to look down to hit it.
  - vmasto 10y ago
    Get out of a dialog quicky. Get out of the OS popup (e.g. File save). Get out of the current context in your editor/IDE (e.g. Search etc) Cancel something. Cmd+esc takes you to the previous up from cmd+tab (instead of cmd+shift+tab). Ever wanted to cancel drag and drop?! Honestly the Esc key is indispensible.

andreygrehov 10y ago

I wonder if Apple gathers any statistics on the most pressed keyboard keys. That could be a reason why they decided to go with the OLED touch panel as a replacement for function keys.

efvxcgci 10y ago

This is the end of Apple. I've been using MAC for over 100 years and this is the final straw. I'll never buy another product from MAC. No function keys on the MACbook, no headphone jack on the Iphone, less space than a nomad. It's bad enough that I need all these dongles for my headphones, SCSI CD drives, and CueCats, and now I need to get even more dongles for my function keys. I knew MAC was going to fail ever since they released the underpowered and un-upgradable toy Imac.

NinoScript 10y ago
Can't tell if this guy is being sarcastic.
- mturmon 10y ago
  Sarcastic, but yes, this is hard to discern. "CueCat" is the tell.

suprgeek 10y ago

Multiple puzzling decisions - 1) The Esc and the Space keys are the two I most often use without looking - now I have to f*ing look down to hit esc? 2)What about a hard boot? Is the power key now a soft key as well? Non-removable battery and a soft reboot key do not make a good mix 3) Key press and travel distance look to be shallow - not a very satisfying experience 4) Please don't make it any thinner at the expense of ports or battery life 5) The charging port is no longer Magsafe All in all seems a bit more gimmicky and "change for change's sake" rather than a solid upgrade

serge2k 10y ago
But it's thinner and lighter. Jony Ive says thinner and lighter will make it better.
pcr0 10y ago
You could map Esc to Caps lock, like most Vim users do.
- itomato 10y ago
  "Most" vim users do not do this. Control, perhaps.
  - tomsthumb 10y ago
    `inore kj <ESC>` or similar
feelix 10y ago
> 2)What about a hard boot? Is the power key now a soft key as well? Non-removable battery and a soft reboot key do not make a good mix Are you seriously implying that you think that Apple would make a laptop whereby if it kernel panics and you need to hard reboot, now there is no way to do that because they accidentally made the power key a soft key? (And I'll add the power key has been a soft key for some years now already)
- deleted 10y ago

tdkl 10y ago

Time to make the top row with Esc and function keys as an external keyboard. If didn't Apple already done that, since they're an accessories company lately.

pkamb 10y ago

Looks like my app PowerKey just got sherlocked... https://github.com/pkamb/PowerKey https://github.com/pkamb/PowerKey

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

WiseWeasel 10y ago

Just imagine playing Pong or Shufflepuck with that input. This will revolutionize paddle-based gaming all over again!

chuckreynolds 10y ago

so the rumors look mostly true. WIN. #takemymoney

ikawe 10y ago

Finally, an excuse for the rest of you vi users to remap Caps Lock to escape. You won't regret it!

ikawe 10y ago

Finally, an excuse for the rest of you vi users to remap Caps Lock to escape. You won't regret it!

ikawe 10y ago

Finally, an excuse for the rest of you vi users to remap Caps Lock to escape. You won't regret it!

muninn_ 10y ago

Am I the only one questioning this "leak" ? How often does Apple leak things on their own website?

ianferrel 10y ago
They didn't leak it on their website. They leaked it in the actual OS. The OS, presumably, includes a "how do I do this new thing" helper, which shows you a picture of the hardware they're about to release (which is going to ship with this OS).
- muninn_ 10y ago
  Looking at the post, it looks like it was something leaked on a website not the OS. At least it did to me.
  - ianferrel 10y ago
    Both the title and the first sentence say that it was leaked in the OS. What made you think "website"?
Tepix 10y ago
Yes, you are the only one.

geerlingguy 10y ago

It looks like the Touch ID area/button is physically separate, and I'm guessing it will function similarly to the home button on iOS devices (touch to power on/wake, and it scans your fingerprint at the same time): http://imgur.com/gallery/G8u98 http://imgur.com/gallery/G8u98

ungzd 10y ago

Reminds me of https://www.artlebedev.ru/optimus/ https://www.artlebedev.ru/optimus/ keyboard

sklivvz1971 10y ago

I wonder how well (or badly) this is going to work when using an external keyboard. I don't mind using the inbuilt keyboard and screen of a laptop for limited time, but in my case, for proper coding and serious usage, nothing beats a mechanical keyboard and a real mouse.

chvid 10y ago

Great with some new ideas on what's in a basic laptop. I wonder: this would need some kind of software support so that the focused application would write what to display on the keyboard? Meaning it would work only with a small set of applications in the beginning. Also I wonder if this feature will make it into apple's external keyboards?

mkj 10y ago

It will be interesting to see how well they use their new hardware unspoofable UI. Puts Apple Pay ahead of most other payments in terms of security.

situationista 10y ago

If the new MacBook Pros are indeed USB-C only, Apple's just given me a great incentive to ditch the iPhone (with its proprietary Lightning standard) and move over to a USB-C compatible phone (such as Google Pixel). At long last a single charger for all devices could be visible on the horizon... another self-inflicted nail in the coffin for Apple's closed-ecosystem supremacy in mobile.

dcosson 10y ago

I wonder if they'll consider giving the next iphone a usb-c port too. If they're really going to be consolidating to a single port I could get on board. Changing yet another standard connector but still requiring everyone to keep around 2 types of chargers (now exactly the same size) seems pretty obnoxious even for Apple.

itomato 10y ago

I can only hope the Magic Toolbar allows me to span 'Esc' across the whole thing. A meter alternating between battery capacity and wifi strength would be a nice touch. Testing the keyboard on the Macbook, I found the action too stiff for my taste. Not jazzed about the short travel, either. Here's hoping.

consultant1 10y ago

For swift and legit hack. Forward your prompts to eurekahackers147{@}tuta.io. He is reliable and got proof to show for his work.

locusm 10y ago

At that thickness wont this have serious thermal throttling like iMac's do for GPU or CPU?

beedogs 10y ago

No escape key? This company is an absolute joke now. Guess it's back to Windows on a PC for me.

chx 10y ago

Lenovo did this to ThinkPads. They backed down. Apple will do this. They will be heralded as true innovators, every laptop maker, including Lenovo will copy them and thus we get further from usable laptop keyboard by another step.

alpineidyll3 10y ago

Macs are already dead to me. It's become impossible to use them without some new nag notification every time I want to run new software or even just do anything without massaging itunes/icloud/siri continuously. This is just another nail in the coffin. Adios OSX, hello well-made ubuntu ready macbook clones.

rsync 10y ago

Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait ... wait. Where. Where is the escape key. Where is the escape key ?

rsync 10y ago

Tomorrow is the day when I run to store.apple.com and buy the maxed out 11" macbook air - even though my current 11" macbook air works perfectly. I need a decent laptop to do my work. A laptop without a physical escape key is not a decent laptop. Therefore, I will stockpile a second one so as to delay by 3-4 years the need to "switch".

comex 10y ago
Do you have the caps lock key already mapped to control then? Or do you actually use the caps lock functionality? I've had caps lock mapped to escape for years on my MacBook Pro for the sake of Vim. It's so much nicer to hit with the pinky than reaching all the way up to the tiny 'esc' button in the function row, it's not even funny.
- robinson-wall 10y ago
  You can have both with Karabiner (though it doesn't work with Sierra yet). Caps lock can be control if held down and used as a modifier with another key, but if pressed and released sends Esc instead.
the_imp 10y ago
Have you considered whether you also need a laptop with a physical caps lock key to do your work? If you do not, then perhaps you do not need to invest in a brand new old laptop right now, but could instead remap your caps lock key to work as escape.

Karupan 10y ago

I'm done with Apple's "Magic" features. I'm sticking to my old 2012 MBP retina till it gives up the ghost, and then picking up a Dell XPS 13", which still has familiar keys. I'm all for evolution, but change for the sake of change means I've to unlearn years of muscle memory and relearn something that is specific to only Apple's hardware. No thanks!

anfogoat 10y ago

Unfortunately, this looks like it's going to increase usability a great deal for ppl who are always running macOS and using the latest GUI apps from AppStore and is therefore going to be in future MBP models as well. Personally, tapping on a flat surface for my ESC and F-keys -- assuming they're even available -- is something I'll refuse to adapt to.

taurath 10y ago
But, I mean, you can have nyan cat going across your keyboard at all times, which makes up for a lot of adaptation problems.

kriro 10y ago

I wonder if the bar will be customizable (both icons and functionality) or if we have to live with what Apple provides for different programs. Would love to map things I commonly do for bash or some generators etc. For touch typing I could also see just mapping the left, middle and right roughly so I only have to hit one of the buttons in that group for three extra buttons.

beilabs 10y ago

OK, it's time for me to dive back into the land of linux for my development machine. Recommendations welcome, looking for something with similar specs to current maxed out mac airs 11". Recommendations welcome!

matt4077 10y ago
I'd recommend the current maxed out mac air 11". It's very close in specs to what you're looking for, can run linux natively and has all the function keys you want. Also: it runs macOS, which is really cool as an OS.

vr46 10y ago

I didn't realize that the keyboard needed disrupting - nearly all my function keys are mapped in Vim or used in other ways for fast switching, or other types of automation. I can't wait to see how they flog the Magic Toolbar to the visually impaired. Apple have turned into Big Brother and their hardware upgrades seem inspired by NewSpeak. Doubleplus ungood, Apple.

deno 10y ago

Everyone’s here focusing on usability aspects, but in fact this is a great security feature more than anything[1]. Security research has been calling for something like this for a long time. Any “enterprise” laptop brand should have been shipping this five years ago. [1] Assuming they don’t let apps just display anything there.

jpalomaki 10y ago
This is actually the thing that I've been kind of missing from computers now that they come with the secure enclave, TPM and other solutions for securely storing encryption keys. It would be pretty great if there was a way for the security chip to communicate directly with user to for example show a clear text version of the bank transaction I'm about to sign with my secret key.
- deno 10y ago
  There’s really no reason to have a separate plain text confirmation here, just an indication that what you’re seeing on screen is not a phishing attempt by a rouge app[1]. A single ‘secure mode’ LED would suffice really. How come no one can even ‘innovate’ this little, other than Apple? [1] Obviously though this is better, because it can be completely driven by the secure path, as you say. Also the axed Escape key is a textbook tactic to cause fake controversy to get free marketing.

kdeldycke 10y ago

No wonder the maintainer of Karabiner ( https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/ https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/ ), one of the most powerful keyboard customizer on OSX, had to start rewriting it from scratch for macOS. Maybe the underlaying keyboard/accessibility APIs in macOS have changed so much it forced a rewrite. If that's the case then I'm starting to see the macOS major release policy as being as conservative as possible. I.e. no introduction of unnecessary changes unless it warrants advancements in hardware integration.

kybernetyk 10y ago

Oh, no physical escape key? That's a show stopper. (Already have ctrl mapped to caps lock so re-mapping esc isn't really feasible for me).

modiho 10y ago
You can have both, so that escape is triggered when you tap caps lock, and ctrl is triggered when you hold caps lock. I followed this article to set it up on my MacBook http://www.economyofeffort.com/2014/08/11/beyond-ctrl-remap-make-that-caps-lock-key-useful/ http://www.economyofeffort.com/2014/08/11/beyond-ctrl-remap-...

vladimir-y 10y ago

Let's try it in action, but for now I presume it's more like an marketing thing than a practical need (I'm fine with usual fn keys). A thing which is supposed to keep Apple to be named as an innovative company. Also will this "magic" work on Linux if I put it on a new Macbook?

dep_b 10y ago

A thought: would it be possible with some kind of feedback like the touchpad or iPhone 6S uses to simulate the feel not only of pressing keys but also the feeling of your finger sliding over them without actually pressing them? I mean I can find the ESC key blindly even if it isn't actually there anymore, but the brightness up key is for me goes like "find ESC key, slide two to the right".