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> The Drug War seems so out of control and Orwellian at this point A friend of mine, a MBA/PHD fellow who happened to give lectures on one of the most prestige

> The Drug War seems so out of control and Orwellian at this point A friend of mine, a MBA/PHD fellow who happened to give lectures on one of the most prestige US University, as well as working for very prestige Hedge Fund in NYC, is a great example of this. In 2007 we was pulled over for a missing stop light. The car was his grandmother and he wasn't aware. As the cop approached him from the right side to look into his glove compartment while he was reaching for registration, the cop noticed a pill on the floor. It happened to be some sort of para-morphine tightly controlled drug that his grandmother used for a pain from her cancer. No amount of explanation was enough for this cop. Even when his grandma showed up at the police station with bottle of same drug to explain. Shortly after his life got ruined very quickly. Of course both University and his job found out and he was removed from his duties due to "very strict no drug policies". No amount of explanation was enough. He tried to get another job and over 3 years went from looking jobs at Universities to trying for McDonald waiter, but even they did not want to hire "a druggie". As he had some savings, it wasn't the worst part. But as he got 6 years parole, being mandatory forced to go to some sort of AA meetings where for 45 minutes a week he had to listen stories of people who couldn't hold a cigarette cause that's how much they got their hands stung by needless, was worst of all nightmares. He even got approached by few drug dealers who happen to often visit those premises to try to recruit new members, and was somewhat glad he had some savings set aside, otherwise he might have gone and really start dealing! Also he couldn't move out of State until the end of his parole (it would be considered violation) and had to check once a week to the local police station and bring updated drug test, even though he had to pay for those tests from his own pocket. If you think you just come to overcrowded NYC police station and drop a piece of paper at some drop box, then you wrong. Those "visits" usually took about 3-6 hours, depending on how busy they were. Sitting in the line in such a place every week for so long has to be nightmare on its own... Not to end this tragic story too sad, eventually once his parole ended he moved to his uncle to Alaska and find some peace working on a fish farm. But his drug record will remain in the system for at least next 15 years. So boys and girls don't "do" drugs....

voxic11 10y ago
My nightmare whenever I drive someone else's car, especially if I know they use drugs (even prescription).
JoelBennett 10y ago
By chance was your friend non-Caucasian?
rhizome 10y ago
I am anti-Drug War on Some People Who Use Some Drugs and a unabashed Balko fanboi, but there's a big hole in this story: the basis for an apparent conviction. Didn't he spend any of his savings on a lawyer?
- dimino 10y ago
  Right? It's not like the cop is Judge Dredd, he gets time in front of a judge...
dominotw 10y ago
This is really a bizarre story. how does someone not know whose car they are driving, how did the pill get out of the bottle and onto to the floor, that too on passengers side. A cop just happened to spot a tiny pill on the floor? how did the university find out about it, do they run criminal records of employees on a regular basis? Why did the judge even convict this person, just a random pill on car floor is enough to convict someone?
- Johnny555 10y ago
  He was aware it was his grandmother's car, he wasn't aware the brake light was out. I don't know if you've seen elderly people take pills, but they often have poor eyesight coupled with poor motor skills so losing a pill or two is not surprising. We put my elderly dad's pills in a daily pill holder (one for morning pills, one for evening pills) because he had trouble counting them out himself. Though if a pill is taken on demand, like a painkiller, leaving them in the bottle may be more sensible. As for how it ended up on the passenger's side, I would hope that if grandma is on narcotic painkillers that she's taking them while she is a passenger, not driving. As for wether or not someone can be convicted for even one small pill, yes, it is possible... for example: In NJ: Possessing any amount of a schedule I, II, III, or IV CDS incurs a fine of up to $35,000, at least three (and up to five) years in prison, or both. Possessing any amount of a Schedule V CDS incurs a fine of up to $15,000, up to 18 months in prison, or both. Using or being under the influence of any CDS not for the purpose of treating a sickness or injury (as legally prescribed by a licensed physician) incurs a fine of up to $500. http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Possession-Controlled-Substance.htm http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal...
  - dominotw 10y ago
    >Prosecutors only have to show that the accused knew the drugs were present and intended to use or control them. Curious how they established that.
    - Johnny555 10y ago
      One way is by asking -- if the cop said "Did you know that pill was there", and he says "Yeah, grandma is always dropping pills, I was going to pick them up after I got home". There, proven that he knew they were present and intended take possession. It's another example of why you should never talk to the police -- it's not going to help you, and may end up hurting you. http://www.vice.com/read/law-professor-police-interrogation-law-constitution-survival http://www.vice.com/read/law-professor-police-interrogation-...
1123581321 10y ago
I'm very sorry about your friend, and oppose the DEA, but this is probably something your friend told you to save face if he was wealthy, educated and actually convicted. Edit: there seems to be some confusion in the replies about my point. This isn't an endorsement of drug laws. We who oppose legal injustice need to have an accurate understanding of how these laws work and what is actually likely to happen in order to be taken seriously, and to prioritize our advocacy for legislation and DoJ rules. I don't believe this story is likely to be true, and that helps me to focus on things that actually happen every day.
- nitrogen 10y ago
  I would consider the story plausible. I have heard stories of elderly ladies being fined for DUI after being given the wrong drug by a malpracticing doctor and causing an accident. The courts are not a forgiving place.
  - 1123581321 10y ago
    This I do find plausible. The difference is that the DUI did happen, whereas in the cancer medication case, the pill was not actually taken. There is a legal defense in situations like that called automatism that, for various reasons, is rarely used, even in cases like this. Prejudice against elderly drivers may factor as well. You can read more about automatism here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatism_(law) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatism_(law)
- rwmj 10y ago
  Even if he was a heavy pill "junkie", how does ruining his life make things better for anyone?
- astral303 10y ago
  Legal competence is a whole separate skill. Educated doesn't mean he has the wherewithal to spend wealth on good lawyers.
- mattnewton 10y ago
  This is why we can't fix the system, we always assume it must be right!
cik2e 10y ago
This story is very hard to believe. The criminal justice system seems very lenient towards certain kinds of individual when it comes to minor quantities of drug possession. If the pedigree that the OP mentions is even half true, this guy should have had the charges dropped with a half decent lawyer. And the worst case scenario should have been a pre-trial intervention program, which is basically a lenient probation for a year or two, after which the charges go away and during which no criminal record exists. On the other hand, driving a car and not knowing it's your grandmother's is likely I make any cop think you're a lying sack of shit and or high on said drugs.

voxic11 10y ago

My nightmare whenever I drive someone else's car, especially if I know they use drugs (even prescription).

JoelBennett 10y ago

By chance was your friend non-Caucasian?

rhizome 10y ago

I am anti-Drug War on Some People Who Use Some Drugs and a unabashed Balko fanboi, but there's a big hole in this story: the basis for an apparent conviction. Didn't he spend any of his savings on a lawyer?

dimino 10y ago
Right? It's not like the cop is Judge Dredd, he gets time in front of a judge...

dominotw 10y ago

This is really a bizarre story. how does someone not know whose car they are driving, how did the pill get out of the bottle and onto to the floor, that too on passengers side. A cop just happened to spot a tiny pill on the floor? how did the university find out about it, do they run criminal records of employees on a regular basis? Why did the judge even convict this person, just a random pill on car floor is enough to convict someone?

Johnny555 10y ago
He was aware it was his grandmother's car, he wasn't aware the brake light was out. I don't know if you've seen elderly people take pills, but they often have poor eyesight coupled with poor motor skills so losing a pill or two is not surprising. We put my elderly dad's pills in a daily pill holder (one for morning pills, one for evening pills) because he had trouble counting them out himself. Though if a pill is taken on demand, like a painkiller, leaving them in the bottle may be more sensible. As for how it ended up on the passenger's side, I would hope that if grandma is on narcotic painkillers that she's taking them while she is a passenger, not driving. As for wether or not someone can be convicted for even one small pill, yes, it is possible... for example: In NJ: Possessing any amount of a schedule I, II, III, or IV CDS incurs a fine of up to $35,000, at least three (and up to five) years in prison, or both. Possessing any amount of a Schedule V CDS incurs a fine of up to $15,000, up to 18 months in prison, or both. Using or being under the influence of any CDS not for the purpose of treating a sickness or injury (as legally prescribed by a licensed physician) incurs a fine of up to $500. http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Possession-Controlled-Substance.htm http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal...
- dominotw 10y ago
  >Prosecutors only have to show that the accused knew the drugs were present and intended to use or control them. Curious how they established that.
  - Johnny555 10y ago
    One way is by asking -- if the cop said "Did you know that pill was there", and he says "Yeah, grandma is always dropping pills, I was going to pick them up after I got home". There, proven that he knew they were present and intended take possession. It's another example of why you should never talk to the police -- it's not going to help you, and may end up hurting you. http://www.vice.com/read/law-professor-police-interrogation-law-constitution-survival http://www.vice.com/read/law-professor-police-interrogation-...

1123581321 10y ago

I'm very sorry about your friend, and oppose the DEA, but this is probably something your friend told you to save face if he was wealthy, educated and actually convicted. Edit: there seems to be some confusion in the replies about my point. This isn't an endorsement of drug laws. We who oppose legal injustice need to have an accurate understanding of how these laws work and what is actually likely to happen in order to be taken seriously, and to prioritize our advocacy for legislation and DoJ rules. I don't believe this story is likely to be true, and that helps me to focus on things that actually happen every day.

nitrogen 10y ago
I would consider the story plausible. I have heard stories of elderly ladies being fined for DUI after being given the wrong drug by a malpracticing doctor and causing an accident. The courts are not a forgiving place.
- 1123581321 10y ago
  This I do find plausible. The difference is that the DUI did happen, whereas in the cancer medication case, the pill was not actually taken. There is a legal defense in situations like that called automatism that, for various reasons, is rarely used, even in cases like this. Prejudice against elderly drivers may factor as well. You can read more about automatism here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatism_(law) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatism_(law)
rwmj 10y ago
Even if he was a heavy pill "junkie", how does ruining his life make things better for anyone?
astral303 10y ago
Legal competence is a whole separate skill. Educated doesn't mean he has the wherewithal to spend wealth on good lawyers.
mattnewton 10y ago
This is why we can't fix the system, we always assume it must be right!

cik2e 10y ago

This story is very hard to believe. The criminal justice system seems very lenient towards certain kinds of individual when it comes to minor quantities of drug possession. If the pedigree that the OP mentions is even half true, this guy should have had the charges dropped with a half decent lawyer. And the worst case scenario should have been a pre-trial intervention program, which is basically a lenient probation for a year or two, after which the charges go away and during which no criminal record exists. On the other hand, driving a car and not knowing it's your grandmother's is likely I make any cop think you're a lying sack of shit and or high on said drugs.