8 ms·

Steve Jobs “Folks who want porn can buy an Android phone”

52 points by TheBurningOr 17y ago

frevd 17y ago
honestly, who is he to dictate what we oughta do and dont
TheBurningOr 17y ago
What really bothers me about this particular aspect of the App Store approval process is how hypocritical it is. If Apple wants to make the App Store a clean place then that is their prerogative. However, to leave Sports Illustrated Swimsuit apps and sex position apps while talking all high and mighty seems rather hypocritical.
- melling 17y ago
  Are you asking why Apple allows the same stuff you can find in a Barnes & Nobles but refuses to allow porn? Maybe Steve does the B&N test?
  - zacharypinter 17y ago
    I still think comparing the App Store to physical stores is a flawed analogy: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1272433 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1272433 Jobs emphasizes this by pointing out that Android (or, non-Apple) is the only option available for mobile software if you disagree with Apple's app store policies. Why not allow people to download/install apps outside the App Store? They do own the phone, right?
    - fierarul 17y ago
      >They do own the phone, right? That's just a technicality. They own the phone but for Apple it's more like a subscription: people will buy apps from Apple's AppStore, buy accessories that need Apple's approval (and where Apple gets a cut) and after maximum 3 years upgrade to the next Apple piece of hardware. So the phone purchase isn't an atomic purchase, it's more like the first downpayment to "the Apple experience".
  - jasonlotito 17y ago
    Wouldn't want Steve to Think Different, would we?
  - troystribling 17y ago
    Barnes and Noble has porn on their magazine shelves.
- CamperBob 17y ago
  The other ridiculous thing about Jobs's position is that, for well over half the world, SI Swimsuit apps are porn. He is using the term as if it had some kind of objective definition, and that makes no sense at all.
  - GHFigs 17y ago
    for well over half the world, SI Swimsuit apps are porn Does the App Store in those countries sell those applications?
- jsz0 17y ago
  I would guess they're using more of a common sense standard than an absolute standard. The Sports Illustrated Swimsuit magazine can be found on any newstand and I don't think it carries any age restrictions (not sure though) and the Karma Sutra is widely stocked in libraries. They are both examples of sexual content that has a broad social mandate to freely exist. There's the issue of quantity of these apps which I think is probably along the lines of a newstand that stocks a few porno magazines is very different from a porno shop.
brazzy 17y ago
Wouldn't it be funny if people did just that, by the millions?
- mo34 17y ago
  No, it would be disgusting; you're showing both your age (young) and your gender (male). When you get a little more maturity under your belt, understand the interrelatedness of the world's problems a bit better, maybe have a son or daughter to guide in this world you'll get it then. Or, you won't - and you'll buy an electronic device solely to access pornography.
- Estragon 17y ago
  Apparently Apple is feeling the heat, if he feels compelled to publically denigrate his competitors that way.
  - GHFigs 17y ago
    It's only denigrating if you yourself feel that porn is a bad association. If not, it's just stating a pretty reasonable suggestion: if having porn apps is important to you, buy a phone that supports porn apps. Don't buy one that doesn't. The subtext is that Apple is willing to lose customers over not being in the porn business, and he's willing to state as much. Maybe this could be seen as denigrating if you suppose that they probably won't lose very many at all over it, suggesting the availability of porn apps on Android does not really add much value to the platform. But that seems a bit indirect. You'll note he did not say "people who want porn are bad people" or "people who want Android phones are bad people" or "porn is the only thing Android is good for".
    - theBobMcCormick 17y ago
      He's also subtly lying. The implication in his statement is that porn apps are allowed in the Android Market, which is false and I'm sure Steve knows it's false. See the android developer content policy here: http://www.android.com/us/developer-content-policy.html http://www.android.com/us/developer-content-policy.html.
axod 17y ago
Who cares? That's what a browser is for. + vids+pics. What utility would be added by making an 'App'?
- pavlov 17y ago
  Multitouch and GPU acceleration? E.g. fast pinch-to-zoom into hi-res originals.
  - zephyrfalcon 17y ago
    Somehow "multitouch" and "pinch-to-zoom" sound really strange in this context... :-)
morphir 17y ago
I'm all for porn. Larry Flint said it once: It's just sex. So why make a big deal of it? There is no way you can take the morale high-ground by disallowing porn. Tell me, are apples customers conservatives that walk around playing golf all day?
- jsz0 17y ago
  It's just a question of distribution. Even if someone likes porn they may choose to keep it stashed away safely and separate from their other magazines and movies. (Mobile Safari) They would very likely object to to someone setting up a make-shift newstand in their front yard to sell porno magazines. (AppStore)
- sp332 17y ago
  Um, most porn is nothing like sex.
  - jasonlotito 17y ago
    Yeah. In porn, people are having fun! But seriously, the mentality that porn is dirty is misguided, especially alongside the death and destruction that are pushed in the gaming industry.
    - yummyfajitas 17y ago
      The problem with (most) porn is that they really aren't having fun. All they are doing is working through a list of positions.
      - modoc 17y ago
        I guess it depends on what porn exactly. I know a few people in the biz, both the indie side and the pro side, and they have a ton of fun.... I'm sure there's some folks who aren't, but I don't watch that stuff:)
      - DanHulton 17y ago
        The problem with (most) work is that they really aren't having fun. all they are doing is working through a list of documents.
ZeroGravitas 17y ago
Clearly, Steve Jobs is the only person in the world that believes privacy mode in browsers is for planning surprise birthday gifts for your spouse.
- GHFigs 17y ago
  This is not about web browsers at all.
rythie 17y ago
Isn't that what Sony/Betamax said about VHS?
ErrantX 17y ago
I have no real hangup over porn (indeed, I spend days looking at it for work..) but I can see his point. Apple, understandably, don't want to be in the minefield arena of porn distribution via the App Store - it's a smoking gun in a sense. This is just a closed product of the App store. Though it appears Jobs also considers it a moral imperative; which is wrong.
- robotron 17y ago
  To repeat what others have said: there is no porn in the Android Marketplace. There is a 3rd party adult appstore. There are also some "girlie" apps like swimsuit model calendars or whatever. Saying "Folks who want porn can buy and [sic] Android phone" is not Jobs defending the iPhone but attacking the Android platform.
  - ErrantX 17y ago
    To be fair; Jobs is commenting about Android - not the Android Marketplace. It feels a distinct difference. (I wasn't commenting on that anyway tbh)
- theBobMcCormick 17y ago
  Total strawman argument. The Android market also doesn't allow porn. See the developer content policy here: http://www.android.com/us/developer-content-policy.html http://www.android.com/us/developer-content-policy.html.
  - ErrantX 17y ago
    Not at all. Android is irrelevant to the point I was making.
    - theBobMcCormick 17y ago
      Sorry, I thought your comment about Apple not wanting to be in the porn distribution business related to Jobs misleading and false implication that the Android Market is in the porn business.
fauigerzigerk 17y ago
Well, thanks for the tip. Will do. But what's really amazing about that guy is that he is apparently unable to understand the difference between a thing and an explanation of that thing. He has banned (or rather censored) a dictionary on the grounds that it included the words "fuck" and "shit" after all. OK, it was fun writing that, but I actually don't believe it. He does understand that difference. He just thinks keeping the utmost distance from anything "dirty" regardless of the type of connection is beneficial to his franchise. We'll just have to wait and see how this plays out in the market in the long run. Whilst waiting I'm going to buy an Android phone for hacking and other types of pleasure ;-)
zsouthboy 17y ago
Except porn isn't allowed in the Android appstore either.
- seabee 17y ago
  The difference is, the Android appstore isn't the only source of apps.
  - zsouthboy 17y ago
    I completely agree. It appears people are taking this statement the wrong way - Porn isn't allowed in the appstore, so his statement is bullshit. Of course we can install our own apps / porn on Android! That's one of the best parts. But we (android community) get to dodge the THINK OF THE CHILDREN bullshit that Jobs is trying to stir up because it's not allowed in the default distribution method.
pistoriusp 17y ago
Just to be clear. The Android marketplace doesn't allow porn either. But due to the open nature of the iPhone a company created a "pornstore." IMHO, the browser has been a pretty good porn marketplace for a long time - I don't see the need.
patrickgzill 17y ago
I think he doesn't really believe it, except in the sense that he wants to avoid the brand being tainted by identification with porn. That is, he doesn't want to see something on the TV news about how high schoolers with iPhones are watching porn in the cafeteria.
- theBobMcCormick 17y ago
  Err.. They already can watch porn on the iPhon in the cafeteria. Do a quick google search for "iphone porn". There are a HUGE number of porn websites that do a perfectly fine job of streaming porn to the iPhone/iPod Touch.
petercooper 17y ago
That's interesting. I haven't had a problem looking at porn on the Web using the iPhone. Okay, the screen's a bit small so it's pointless, but still. WTF would we want to pay for it when the Web has so much for free?
wallflower 17y ago
maxklein said it best: Do you really think Apple wants porn apps in their Top 25 Grossing, Paid, and Free lists? "I'm an app store developer, and if Apple opens the doors, let me tell you what will happen : First of all, there will be hardcore porn immediately. Boob apps will flood the store, because that's what makes money." http://news.ycombinator.net/item?id=1110804 http://news.ycombinator.net/item?id=1110804
- theBobMcCormick 17y ago
  Just to be clear, the Android Market doesn't allow porn apps either (see the developer content policy here: http://www.android.com/us/developer-content-policy.html http://www.android.com/us/developer-content-policy.html). But it is relatively easy for an Android user to load apps from outside the Android Market. One of these apps is a porn market: http://phandroid.com/2009/11/27/android-porn-market-from-mikandi/ http://phandroid.com/2009/11/27/android-porn-market-from-mik... Bit of a tempest in a teapot really, since any user who could figure out how to download and install mikandi (or the equivalent) could also just search for any of the NUMEROUS porn web sites that work just fine on either Android or iPhone.
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
markkoberlein 17y ago
This is another brilliant marketing move by Steve and an attempt to influence the news media's view of the Android phone. If the news media starts talking about Android phones as "porn" phones then the iPhone will be presented as the shiny white alternative to that.
- theBobMcCormick 17y ago
  I'm not sure how a completely obvious lie is a brilliant marketing move. Granted, lying has worked for some companies before, but personally I think this is likely to do more to hurt Jobs reputation than to help it.
signa11 17y ago
wasn't it steve-jobs who had earlier potificated : 'i would rather be a pirate than be in the navy...' why so serious ?
dkuchar 17y ago
done
torial 17y ago
This seems to be a smart movie on Jobs' part. I'm not an Apple fan per se (I don't own any Apple products) but can see some definite advantages to Jobs' strategy. 1. Every business guy I've talked to loved the iPhone's power and what they could do without needing to lug a laptop around everywhere. So the iPhone has a definite business appeal, and keeping porn out helps keep that ambiance. 2. Clearly he is using the porn store for Android as a, "hey, Android is entertainment, iPhone is for professionals " type of message. 3. I think the other smart thing, which no one in Apple will talk about is the reduced bandwidth consumption they will have by not having porn! It is an inherently bandwidth hungry system (presuming online, not stored in a DB) to be encouraging videos and images. 3a) This allows them to leave out a strategically bad (PR/Marketing-wise) niche that would strain an already strained infrastructure. 3b) This strain on the infrastructure would affect those business types that they have good appeal with. FWIW - I think people claiming that Apple is socially conservative is absurd. They have a former VP candidate for the Democratic party on their board. And I bet if people looked into it, they'd find a health balance of board political donations go to liberals.
- theBobMcCormick 17y ago
  Jobs is also lying and I'm sure he knows it. Personally I'm not sure I see how that's a good move. The Android Market doesn't allow porn apps either (see the developer content policy here: http://www.android.com/us/developer-content-policy.html http://www.android.com/us/developer-content-policy.html). The bandwidth consumpsion argument is also total bullshit. Do a quick google/bing search for "iphone porn". There are a lot of porn sites ready, willing, and able to stream porn videos to Mobile Safari.
mnemonicfx 16y ago
3 years of having arguments with the public will make some people lose their patience. That's how I see it.

52 points by TheBurningOr 17y ago

frevd 17y ago

honestly, who is he to dictate what we oughta do and dont

What really bothers me about this particular aspect of the App Store approval process is how hypocritical it is. If Apple wants to make the App Store a clean place then that is their prerogative. However, to leave Sports Illustrated Swimsuit apps and sex position apps while talking all high and mighty seems rather hypocritical.

melling 17y ago
Are you asking why Apple allows the same stuff you can find in a Barnes & Nobles but refuses to allow porn? Maybe Steve does the B&N test?
- zacharypinter 17y ago
  I still think comparing the App Store to physical stores is a flawed analogy: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1272433 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1272433 Jobs emphasizes this by pointing out that Android (or, non-Apple) is the only option available for mobile software if you disagree with Apple's app store policies. Why not allow people to download/install apps outside the App Store? They do own the phone, right?
  - fierarul 17y ago
    >They do own the phone, right? That's just a technicality. They own the phone but for Apple it's more like a subscription: people will buy apps from Apple's AppStore, buy accessories that need Apple's approval (and where Apple gets a cut) and after maximum 3 years upgrade to the next Apple piece of hardware. So the phone purchase isn't an atomic purchase, it's more like the first downpayment to "the Apple experience".
- jasonlotito 17y ago
  Wouldn't want Steve to Think Different, would we?
- troystribling 17y ago
  Barnes and Noble has porn on their magazine shelves.
CamperBob 17y ago
The other ridiculous thing about Jobs's position is that, for well over half the world, SI Swimsuit apps are porn. He is using the term as if it had some kind of objective definition, and that makes no sense at all.
- GHFigs 17y ago
  for well over half the world, SI Swimsuit apps are porn Does the App Store in those countries sell those applications?
jsz0 17y ago
I would guess they're using more of a common sense standard than an absolute standard. The Sports Illustrated Swimsuit magazine can be found on any newstand and I don't think it carries any age restrictions (not sure though) and the Karma Sutra is widely stocked in libraries. They are both examples of sexual content that has a broad social mandate to freely exist. There's the issue of quantity of these apps which I think is probably along the lines of a newstand that stocks a few porno magazines is very different from a porno shop.

brazzy 17y ago

Wouldn't it be funny if people did just that, by the millions?

mo34 17y ago
No, it would be disgusting; you're showing both your age (young) and your gender (male). When you get a little more maturity under your belt, understand the interrelatedness of the world's problems a bit better, maybe have a son or daughter to guide in this world you'll get it then. Or, you won't - and you'll buy an electronic device solely to access pornography.
Estragon 17y ago
Apparently Apple is feeling the heat, if he feels compelled to publically denigrate his competitors that way.
- GHFigs 17y ago
  It's only denigrating if you yourself feel that porn is a bad association. If not, it's just stating a pretty reasonable suggestion: if having porn apps is important to you, buy a phone that supports porn apps. Don't buy one that doesn't. The subtext is that Apple is willing to lose customers over not being in the porn business, and he's willing to state as much. Maybe this could be seen as denigrating if you suppose that they probably won't lose very many at all over it, suggesting the availability of porn apps on Android does not really add much value to the platform. But that seems a bit indirect. You'll note he did not say "people who want porn are bad people" or "people who want Android phones are bad people" or "porn is the only thing Android is good for".
  - theBobMcCormick 17y ago
    He's also subtly lying. The implication in his statement is that porn apps are allowed in the Android Market, which is false and I'm sure Steve knows it's false. See the android developer content policy here: http://www.android.com/us/developer-content-policy.html http://www.android.com/us/developer-content-policy.html.

axod 17y ago

Who cares? That's what a browser is for. + vids+pics. What utility would be added by making an 'App'?

pavlov 17y ago
Multitouch and GPU acceleration? E.g. fast pinch-to-zoom into hi-res originals.
- zephyrfalcon 17y ago
  Somehow "multitouch" and "pinch-to-zoom" sound really strange in this context... :-)

morphir 17y ago

I'm all for porn. Larry Flint said it once: It's just sex. So why make a big deal of it? There is no way you can take the morale high-ground by disallowing porn. Tell me, are apples customers conservatives that walk around playing golf all day?

jsz0 17y ago
It's just a question of distribution. Even if someone likes porn they may choose to keep it stashed away safely and separate from their other magazines and movies. (Mobile Safari) They would very likely object to to someone setting up a make-shift newstand in their front yard to sell porno magazines. (AppStore)
sp332 17y ago
Um, most porn is nothing like sex.
- jasonlotito 17y ago
  Yeah. In porn, people are having fun! But seriously, the mentality that porn is dirty is misguided, especially alongside the death and destruction that are pushed in the gaming industry.
  - yummyfajitas 17y ago
    The problem with (most) porn is that they really aren't having fun. All they are doing is working through a list of positions.
    - modoc 17y ago
      I guess it depends on what porn exactly. I know a few people in the biz, both the indie side and the pro side, and they have a ton of fun.... I'm sure there's some folks who aren't, but I don't watch that stuff:)
    - DanHulton 17y ago
      The problem with (most) work is that they really aren't having fun. all they are doing is working through a list of documents.

ZeroGravitas 17y ago

Clearly, Steve Jobs is the only person in the world that believes privacy mode in browsers is for planning surprise birthday gifts for your spouse.

GHFigs 17y ago
This is not about web browsers at all.

rythie 17y ago

Isn't that what Sony/Betamax said about VHS?

ErrantX 17y ago

I have no real hangup over porn (indeed, I spend days looking at it for work..) but I can see his point. Apple, understandably, don't want to be in the minefield arena of porn distribution via the App Store - it's a smoking gun in a sense. This is just a closed product of the App store. Though it appears Jobs also considers it a moral imperative; which is wrong.

robotron 17y ago
To repeat what others have said: there is no porn in the Android Marketplace. There is a 3rd party adult appstore. There are also some "girlie" apps like swimsuit model calendars or whatever. Saying "Folks who want porn can buy and [sic] Android phone" is not Jobs defending the iPhone but attacking the Android platform.
- ErrantX 17y ago
  To be fair; Jobs is commenting about Android - not the Android Marketplace. It feels a distinct difference. (I wasn't commenting on that anyway tbh)
theBobMcCormick 17y ago
Total strawman argument. The Android market also doesn't allow porn. See the developer content policy here: http://www.android.com/us/developer-content-policy.html http://www.android.com/us/developer-content-policy.html.
- ErrantX 17y ago
  Not at all. Android is irrelevant to the point I was making.
  - theBobMcCormick 17y ago
    Sorry, I thought your comment about Apple not wanting to be in the porn distribution business related to Jobs misleading and false implication that the Android Market is in the porn business.

fauigerzigerk 17y ago

Well, thanks for the tip. Will do. But what's really amazing about that guy is that he is apparently unable to understand the difference between a thing and an explanation of that thing. He has banned (or rather censored) a dictionary on the grounds that it included the words "fuck" and "shit" after all. OK, it was fun writing that, but I actually don't believe it. He does understand that difference. He just thinks keeping the utmost distance from anything "dirty" regardless of the type of connection is beneficial to his franchise. We'll just have to wait and see how this plays out in the market in the long run. Whilst waiting I'm going to buy an Android phone for hacking and other types of pleasure ;-)

zsouthboy 17y ago

Except porn isn't allowed in the Android appstore either.

seabee 17y ago
The difference is, the Android appstore isn't the only source of apps.
- zsouthboy 17y ago
  I completely agree. It appears people are taking this statement the wrong way - Porn isn't allowed in the appstore, so his statement is bullshit. Of course we can install our own apps / porn on Android! That's one of the best parts. But we (android community) get to dodge the THINK OF THE CHILDREN bullshit that Jobs is trying to stir up because it's not allowed in the default distribution method.

pistoriusp 17y ago

Just to be clear. The Android marketplace doesn't allow porn either. But due to the open nature of the iPhone a company created a "pornstore." IMHO, the browser has been a pretty good porn marketplace for a long time - I don't see the need.

patrickgzill 17y ago

I think he doesn't really believe it, except in the sense that he wants to avoid the brand being tainted by identification with porn. That is, he doesn't want to see something on the TV news about how high schoolers with iPhones are watching porn in the cafeteria.

theBobMcCormick 17y ago
Err.. They already can watch porn on the iPhon in the cafeteria. Do a quick google search for "iphone porn". There are a HUGE number of porn websites that do a perfectly fine job of streaming porn to the iPhone/iPod Touch.

petercooper 17y ago

That's interesting. I haven't had a problem looking at porn on the Web using the iPhone. Okay, the screen's a bit small so it's pointless, but still. WTF would we want to pay for it when the Web has so much for free?

wallflower 17y ago

maxklein said it best: Do you really think Apple wants porn apps in their Top 25 Grossing, Paid, and Free lists? "I'm an app store developer, and if Apple opens the doors, let me tell you what will happen : First of all, there will be hardcore porn immediately. Boob apps will flood the store, because that's what makes money." http://news.ycombinator.net/item?id=1110804 http://news.ycombinator.net/item?id=1110804

theBobMcCormick 17y ago
Just to be clear, the Android Market doesn't allow porn apps either (see the developer content policy here: http://www.android.com/us/developer-content-policy.html http://www.android.com/us/developer-content-policy.html). But it is relatively easy for an Android user to load apps from outside the Android Market. One of these apps is a porn market: http://phandroid.com/2009/11/27/android-porn-market-from-mikandi/ http://phandroid.com/2009/11/27/android-porn-market-from-mik... Bit of a tempest in a teapot really, since any user who could figure out how to download and install mikandi (or the equivalent) could also just search for any of the NUMEROUS porn web sites that work just fine on either Android or iPhone.

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

markkoberlein 17y ago

This is another brilliant marketing move by Steve and an attempt to influence the news media's view of the Android phone. If the news media starts talking about Android phones as "porn" phones then the iPhone will be presented as the shiny white alternative to that.

theBobMcCormick 17y ago
I'm not sure how a completely obvious lie is a brilliant marketing move. Granted, lying has worked for some companies before, but personally I think this is likely to do more to hurt Jobs reputation than to help it.

signa11 17y ago

wasn't it steve-jobs who had earlier potificated : 'i would rather be a pirate than be in the navy...' why so serious ?

dkuchar 17y ago

done

torial 17y ago

This seems to be a smart movie on Jobs' part. I'm not an Apple fan per se (I don't own any Apple products) but can see some definite advantages to Jobs' strategy. 1. Every business guy I've talked to loved the iPhone's power and what they could do without needing to lug a laptop around everywhere. So the iPhone has a definite business appeal, and keeping porn out helps keep that ambiance. 2. Clearly he is using the porn store for Android as a, "hey, Android is entertainment, iPhone is for professionals " type of message. 3. I think the other smart thing, which no one in Apple will talk about is the reduced bandwidth consumption they will have by not having porn! It is an inherently bandwidth hungry system (presuming online, not stored in a DB) to be encouraging videos and images. 3a) This allows them to leave out a strategically bad (PR/Marketing-wise) niche that would strain an already strained infrastructure. 3b) This strain on the infrastructure would affect those business types that they have good appeal with. FWIW - I think people claiming that Apple is socially conservative is absurd. They have a former VP candidate for the Democratic party on their board. And I bet if people looked into it, they'd find a health balance of board political donations go to liberals.

theBobMcCormick 17y ago
Jobs is also lying and I'm sure he knows it. Personally I'm not sure I see how that's a good move. The Android Market doesn't allow porn apps either (see the developer content policy here: http://www.android.com/us/developer-content-policy.html http://www.android.com/us/developer-content-policy.html). The bandwidth consumpsion argument is also total bullshit. Do a quick google/bing search for "iphone porn". There are a lot of porn sites ready, willing, and able to stream porn videos to Mobile Safari.

mnemonicfx 16y ago

3 years of having arguments with the public will make some people lose their patience. That's how I see it.