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Something needs to exist before you can improve it. Continuing along those lines, the initial innovation to bring unique products to market is at least as impo

Something needs to exist before you can improve it. Continuing along those lines, the initial innovation to bring unique products to market is at least as important as polishing it.

nardi 10y ago
In this case, what was the initial innovation that was at least as important as the iPod? Who made it?
- dewitt 10y ago
  MP3 encoding (Fraunhofer Institute) and the Arcos Jukebox (Arcos). Both paved the technical way for the huge usability and ergonomic improvements offered by the iPod. Edit: And HDD density / price per MB reaching a point where storing several dozen MP3s was noticeably more convenient than swapping CDs.
  - nardi 10y ago
    MP3, definitely; that's a great pick. But do you really think using a hard drive instead of flash memory was a huge innovative leap? They didn't invent the hard drive. Both forms of storage existed at the time, and anyone could have picked one over the other.
    - ghaff 10y ago
      The iPod hit the market pretty much together with 1.8" HDDs which proved to be a pretty nice sweet spot for a while. Flash costs became pretty unattractive in comparison for desirable capacities while larger drives led to clunky devices. Not sure how one counts innovative but Apple chose a good horse to ride for storage that led to it being in an increasingly enviable position among MP3 players. (Which Apple parlayed into popular flash players and then the iPhone.)
      - jakobegger 10y ago
        Yes. In my opinion the 1.8" HDDs are the main technological feature that made the iPod possible. To me, this was the most amazing thing about the iPod. 5GB inside this tiny package... it seemed impossible before I learned about those tiny hard drives.
        makomk 10y ago
        As I understand it, of of Apple's big competitive advantages was that they contracted for essentially the entire output of 1.8 inch hard drives so no-one else could use them.
        jimbokun 10y ago
        Yes, but only after they had a large volume of iPod sales, I think. Apple has also used their scale with iPhone to buy components in such large volumes none of their competitors can get a lower price, which means Apple can actually be price competitive when they perceive it in their interest to do so.
- shinymark 10y ago
  Great question! Perhaps tech related to mp3 compression and miniaturizing storage. I can't name any specific contributors, however. While thinking about this it made me feel like that is an example of a powerful force of history - "to the victor goes the spoils." There was a lot of tech foundation innovated by competitors in related products that made the iPod possible but since the iPod was the breakout success of the era it's all some of us can remember.
- djeikyb 10y ago
  It wasn't the first I'm sure, but I had a Creative Nomad MuVo. It was basically a flash drive, but with an audio out. It was super compact and powered by a AAA battery. I was pretty happy to upgrade to a spacious iPod, but the little nomad served well. Creative may have had others that predate the iPod?
- kbenson 10y ago
  The Diamond Rio comes to mind, as probably the first consumer one to get much attention (but "much attention" is relative, and it was still a niche market), but with only 32MB of storage, it was underwhelming (but also years earlier, in 1998). The Remote Solutions Personal Jukebox looks to have been the first of the models to use a laptop drive instead of small and expensive flash, but at $799 for 4.8GB, it was very pricey (1999). The Creative NOMAD Jukebox in late 2000 had 6GB for $429. In late 2001, Apple introduces the iPod, which at 4GB for $399, is actually not quite as good in a dollar per GB metric. I think it's clear that it's not really the idea that made the iPod take off, but the marketing, polish, and IMO most importantly, that they had a real software company work on it rather than a bunch of EE people. Not to denigrate electrical engineers, but often it's a different type of programming that goes into UI and UX, and having people that have worked on that for years can matter quite a bit. 1: http://www.pcworld.com/article/174725/evolution_of_the_mp3_player.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/174725/evolution_of_the_mp3_p...
  - ghaff 10y ago
    That's all about how I remember it. I'd add though that, while the initial iPod received a generally positive reception, there was the usual Apple critique that it was on the pricey side. And there really wasn't a general market perception right away that everything was different now. For one thing, iTunes originally ran only on Macs--and Apple wasn't saying publicly that would ever change--so iPods were mostly usable with laptops/desktops that were pretty niche at the time.
  - nowarninglabel 10y ago
    Exactly. I bought a Diamond Rio when it first came out, but it was early. It was difficult to explain to non-techies. Apple figured out how to tap into the early adopters and make them influencers to bring in the early majority. Part of this was making it easier for people to be able to get music on to the thing. iTunes had just come out shortly before the iPod and started hitting its stride in tandem with the device.
    - wutbrodo 10y ago
      I'm curious, Why was it difficult to explain? Given the popularity of CD players, it seems like an mp3 player would be pretty easy to explain.
joesb 10y ago
Who created the universe?
- nbb 10y ago
  Oh, sorry, I was trying to bake a pie.
- nercht12 10y ago
  God. Oh, wait, which universe?

Something needs to exist before you can improve it. Continuing along those lines, the initial innovation to bring unique products to market is at least as important as polishing it.

nardi 10y ago

In this case, what was the initial innovation that was at least as important as the iPod? Who made it?

dewitt 10y ago
MP3 encoding (Fraunhofer Institute) and the Arcos Jukebox (Arcos). Both paved the technical way for the huge usability and ergonomic improvements offered by the iPod. Edit: And HDD density / price per MB reaching a point where storing several dozen MP3s was noticeably more convenient than swapping CDs.
- nardi 10y ago
  MP3, definitely; that's a great pick. But do you really think using a hard drive instead of flash memory was a huge innovative leap? They didn't invent the hard drive. Both forms of storage existed at the time, and anyone could have picked one over the other.
  - ghaff 10y ago
    The iPod hit the market pretty much together with 1.8" HDDs which proved to be a pretty nice sweet spot for a while. Flash costs became pretty unattractive in comparison for desirable capacities while larger drives led to clunky devices. Not sure how one counts innovative but Apple chose a good horse to ride for storage that led to it being in an increasingly enviable position among MP3 players. (Which Apple parlayed into popular flash players and then the iPhone.)
    - jakobegger 10y ago
      Yes. In my opinion the 1.8" HDDs are the main technological feature that made the iPod possible. To me, this was the most amazing thing about the iPod. 5GB inside this tiny package... it seemed impossible before I learned about those tiny hard drives.
      - makomk 10y ago
        As I understand it, of of Apple's big competitive advantages was that they contracted for essentially the entire output of 1.8 inch hard drives so no-one else could use them.
        jimbokun 10y ago
        Yes, but only after they had a large volume of iPod sales, I think. Apple has also used their scale with iPhone to buy components in such large volumes none of their competitors can get a lower price, which means Apple can actually be price competitive when they perceive it in their interest to do so.
shinymark 10y ago
Great question! Perhaps tech related to mp3 compression and miniaturizing storage. I can't name any specific contributors, however. While thinking about this it made me feel like that is an example of a powerful force of history - "to the victor goes the spoils." There was a lot of tech foundation innovated by competitors in related products that made the iPod possible but since the iPod was the breakout success of the era it's all some of us can remember.
djeikyb 10y ago
It wasn't the first I'm sure, but I had a Creative Nomad MuVo. It was basically a flash drive, but with an audio out. It was super compact and powered by a AAA battery. I was pretty happy to upgrade to a spacious iPod, but the little nomad served well. Creative may have had others that predate the iPod?
kbenson 10y ago
The Diamond Rio comes to mind, as probably the first consumer one to get much attention (but "much attention" is relative, and it was still a niche market), but with only 32MB of storage, it was underwhelming (but also years earlier, in 1998). The Remote Solutions Personal Jukebox looks to have been the first of the models to use a laptop drive instead of small and expensive flash, but at $799 for 4.8GB, it was very pricey (1999). The Creative NOMAD Jukebox in late 2000 had 6GB for $429. In late 2001, Apple introduces the iPod, which at 4GB for $399, is actually not quite as good in a dollar per GB metric. I think it's clear that it's not really the idea that made the iPod take off, but the marketing, polish, and IMO most importantly, that they had a real software company work on it rather than a bunch of EE people. Not to denigrate electrical engineers, but often it's a different type of programming that goes into UI and UX, and having people that have worked on that for years can matter quite a bit. 1: http://www.pcworld.com/article/174725/evolution_of_the_mp3_player.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/174725/evolution_of_the_mp3_p...
- ghaff 10y ago
  That's all about how I remember it. I'd add though that, while the initial iPod received a generally positive reception, there was the usual Apple critique that it was on the pricey side. And there really wasn't a general market perception right away that everything was different now. For one thing, iTunes originally ran only on Macs--and Apple wasn't saying publicly that would ever change--so iPods were mostly usable with laptops/desktops that were pretty niche at the time.
- nowarninglabel 10y ago
  Exactly. I bought a Diamond Rio when it first came out, but it was early. It was difficult to explain to non-techies. Apple figured out how to tap into the early adopters and make them influencers to bring in the early majority. Part of this was making it easier for people to be able to get music on to the thing. iTunes had just come out shortly before the iPod and started hitting its stride in tandem with the device.
  - wutbrodo 10y ago
    I'm curious, Why was it difficult to explain? Given the popularity of CD players, it seems like an mp3 player would be pretty easy to explain.

joesb 10y ago

Who created the universe?

nbb 10y ago
Oh, sorry, I was trying to bake a pie.
nercht12 10y ago
God. Oh, wait, which universe?