6 ms·

Ultralow power transistors that could function for years without a battery

93 points by taylorbuley 10y ago

loop-programmer 10y ago
Sounds like vaporware. These sorts of innovations rarely seem to be robust enough to commercialize.
powera 10y ago
Is this an ultra-low-current battery, or an energy generation technique?
- m4x 10y ago
  It is neither. As the summary at the top of the article says, it is a transistor that draws very little power.
  - visarga 10y ago
    And could be used with antennas that harvest electrical energy from the background EM radiation. It could lead to battery-less sensors with long life.
    - leonix 10y ago
      Humanity on its road to invent Pham Nuwen's localizers from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Deepness_in_the_Sky#Localizers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Deepness_in_the_Sky#Localize... :)
  - powera 10y ago
    Draws very little power from what?
russdill 10y ago
It's impossible to read much into articles that are so incredibly buzz word inundated. It sounds like a transistor with ultra low leakage power which is becoming an increasing problem. You'd still have dynamic power consumption.
- Dylan16807 10y ago
  There's something about running entirely on leakage power, never powering on into the normal region? I can't figure out what they're talking about with scavenging power at all; if it could scavenge why would it only last 'months or years'.
  - russdill 10y ago
    Scavenge is just used as a buzzword. Rather than having a battery, the IoT device could be low enough power to use just piezo capture, EM capture, etc.
kens 10y ago
Better link: http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/engineers-design-ultralow-power-transistors-that-could-function-for-years-without-a-battery http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/engineers-design-ultralow... Paper abstract: http://science.sciencemag.org/content/354/6310/302 http://science.sciencemag.org/content/354/6310/302
- Dylan16807 10y ago
  It's not much better. That graph looks like nonsense and it doesn't really explain things. The abstract is fine but only explains a small fraction of the article by itself.
- gerbal 10y ago
  Scihub link: http://science.sciencemag.org.sci-hub.cc/content/354/6310/302 http://science.sciencemag.org.sci-hub.cc/content/354/6310/30...
- acqq 10y ago
  "Wearable devices and environmental sensors ideally should consume very little power to avoid the need for batteries that would have to be replaced. Lee and Nathan developed a thin-film transistor (TFT) from In-Ga-Zn-O thin films. To make the material less conductive, the films were fabricated to avoid oxygen vacancies. The TFT operated at ultralow power (less than 1 nW) and at switching voltages of less than 1 V with very high intrinsic gain. The devices work by changing the height of the so-called Schottky barrier formed between the semiconductor gate material and the metal drain contact."
JumpCrisscross 10y ago
How credible is Futurism.com as a source? Futurism, LLC, a Delaware limited liability company, was formed less than a year and a half ago [1]. In my experience, their content tends to be breathlessly hyperbolic. [1] State of Delaware Department of State: Division of Corporations
gridspy 10y ago
Bad title. Correct title "Low power transistor could massively extend battery life"
pjc50 10y ago
It's rather badly explained, but it seems they've developed the Schottky transistor, using a TFT manufacturing process. Conventionally TFTs are slow and leaky compared to a regular CMOS FET in silicon. It sounds like they've greatly improved leakage, although I can't figure out where they say this in the paper. This makes printable low-power circuits more plausible.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- acqq 10y ago
  It is a "Schottky-barrier indium-gallium-zinc-oxide thin-film transistor operating in the deep subthreshold regime." According to the original article in Science Mag. the currents involved are significantly lower then of the other possible technologies. It's not only that the OFF current is apparently an order of magnitude lower (as a property of the use of that material, IGZO) it's that the transistor does the useful work in the "almost off" state (as they operate it in that regime). The low currents typically mean also "slow" but for the applications intended it could be exactly what's enough, and the advantages huge. I don't see that they give any exact estimate of some real life application, it can be that the practical uses technologically introduce some limitations that aren't discussed. At least it looks promising.
aperrien 10y ago
Could this type of transistor be used in stacked silicon chips? [1] It would seem that such a low power transistor would produce much less heat, solving one of the largest problems with the technology. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-dimensional_integrated_circuit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-dimensional_integrated_c...
jhallenworld 10y ago
Subthreshold logic is already in use.. check out Ambiq's Apollo ARM MCU. http://ambiqmicro.com/low-power-microcontroller http://ambiqmicro.com/low-power-microcontroller
- acqq 10y ago
  Thanks, here they describe the idea and the problems they faced: http://ambiqmicro.com/spot-platform http://ambiqmicro.com/spot-platform "Operation at such low voltages is problematic due to susceptibility to noise, high sensitivity to temperature, and variability due to process drift. In developing the SPOTTM platform, Ambiq Micro has addressed all of these challenges by redesigning every analog and digital circuit in the chip to adapt for the temperature, voltage, and manufacturing variations that are problematic at these voltage levels."
  - jhallenworld 10y ago
    Yeah, they are using the transistors near their highest gain point. It's impressive that they got this to work- If you try this with through-hole transistors, you will definitely be picking up your local AM station.
    - acqq 10y ago
      Do you by any chance know more details? I'd love to read about it.
      - jhallenworld 10y ago
        Well here is their paper: https://www.fujitsu.com/uk/Images/Ambiq_whitepaper.pdf https://www.fujitsu.com/uk/Images/Ambiq_whitepaper.pdf Also always fun to look at their patents, but who knows which ideas are really used in the chip: https://www.google.com/patents/US7009265?dq=ambiq&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiK_eOwm_fPAhXq5IMKHanxBR0Q6AEISTAG https://www.google.com/patents/US7009265?dq=ambiq&hl=en&sa=X... This thesis seems to have a good overview: http://www.eng.auburn.edu/~agrawvd/THESIS/KIM_S/S.Kim_HonorsThesis_FINAL.pdf http://www.eng.auburn.edu/~agrawvd/THESIS/KIM_S/S.Kim_Honors...

93 points by taylorbuley 10y ago

loop-programmer 10y ago

Sounds like vaporware. These sorts of innovations rarely seem to be robust enough to commercialize.

powera 10y ago

Is this an ultra-low-current battery, or an energy generation technique?

m4x 10y ago
It is neither. As the summary at the top of the article says, it is a transistor that draws very little power.
- visarga 10y ago
  And could be used with antennas that harvest electrical energy from the background EM radiation. It could lead to battery-less sensors with long life.
  - leonix 10y ago
    Humanity on its road to invent Pham Nuwen's localizers from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Deepness_in_the_Sky#Localizers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Deepness_in_the_Sky#Localize... :)
- powera 10y ago
  Draws very little power from what?

russdill 10y ago

It's impossible to read much into articles that are so incredibly buzz word inundated. It sounds like a transistor with ultra low leakage power which is becoming an increasing problem. You'd still have dynamic power consumption.

Dylan16807 10y ago
There's something about running entirely on leakage power, never powering on into the normal region? I can't figure out what they're talking about with scavenging power at all; if it could scavenge why would it only last 'months or years'.
- russdill 10y ago
  Scavenge is just used as a buzzword. Rather than having a battery, the IoT device could be low enough power to use just piezo capture, EM capture, etc.

kens 10y ago

Better link: http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/engineers-design-ultralow-power-transistors-that-could-function-for-years-without-a-battery http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/engineers-design-ultralow... Paper abstract: http://science.sciencemag.org/content/354/6310/302 http://science.sciencemag.org/content/354/6310/302

Dylan16807 10y ago
It's not much better. That graph looks like nonsense and it doesn't really explain things. The abstract is fine but only explains a small fraction of the article by itself.
gerbal 10y ago
Scihub link: http://science.sciencemag.org.sci-hub.cc/content/354/6310/302 http://science.sciencemag.org.sci-hub.cc/content/354/6310/30...
acqq 10y ago
"Wearable devices and environmental sensors ideally should consume very little power to avoid the need for batteries that would have to be replaced. Lee and Nathan developed a thin-film transistor (TFT) from In-Ga-Zn-O thin films. To make the material less conductive, the films were fabricated to avoid oxygen vacancies. The TFT operated at ultralow power (less than 1 nW) and at switching voltages of less than 1 V with very high intrinsic gain. The devices work by changing the height of the so-called Schottky barrier formed between the semiconductor gate material and the metal drain contact."

JumpCrisscross 10y ago

How credible is Futurism.com as a source? Futurism, LLC, a Delaware limited liability company, was formed less than a year and a half ago [1]. In my experience, their content tends to be breathlessly hyperbolic. [1] State of Delaware Department of State: Division of Corporations

gridspy 10y ago

Bad title. Correct title "Low power transistor could massively extend battery life"

pjc50 10y ago

It's rather badly explained, but it seems they've developed the Schottky transistor, using a TFT manufacturing process. Conventionally TFTs are slow and leaky compared to a regular CMOS FET in silicon. It sounds like they've greatly improved leakage, although I can't figure out where they say this in the paper. This makes printable low-power circuits more plausible.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
acqq 10y ago
It is a "Schottky-barrier indium-gallium-zinc-oxide thin-film transistor operating in the deep subthreshold regime." According to the original article in Science Mag. the currents involved are significantly lower then of the other possible technologies. It's not only that the OFF current is apparently an order of magnitude lower (as a property of the use of that material, IGZO) it's that the transistor does the useful work in the "almost off" state (as they operate it in that regime). The low currents typically mean also "slow" but for the applications intended it could be exactly what's enough, and the advantages huge. I don't see that they give any exact estimate of some real life application, it can be that the practical uses technologically introduce some limitations that aren't discussed. At least it looks promising.

aperrien 10y ago

Could this type of transistor be used in stacked silicon chips? [1] It would seem that such a low power transistor would produce much less heat, solving one of the largest problems with the technology. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-dimensional_integrated_circuit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-dimensional_integrated_c...

jhallenworld 10y ago

Subthreshold logic is already in use.. check out Ambiq's Apollo ARM MCU. http://ambiqmicro.com/low-power-microcontroller http://ambiqmicro.com/low-power-microcontroller

acqq 10y ago
Thanks, here they describe the idea and the problems they faced: http://ambiqmicro.com/spot-platform http://ambiqmicro.com/spot-platform "Operation at such low voltages is problematic due to susceptibility to noise, high sensitivity to temperature, and variability due to process drift. In developing the SPOTTM platform, Ambiq Micro has addressed all of these challenges by redesigning every analog and digital circuit in the chip to adapt for the temperature, voltage, and manufacturing variations that are problematic at these voltage levels."
- jhallenworld 10y ago
  Yeah, they are using the transistors near their highest gain point. It's impressive that they got this to work- If you try this with through-hole transistors, you will definitely be picking up your local AM station.
  - acqq 10y ago
    Do you by any chance know more details? I'd love to read about it.
    - jhallenworld 10y ago
      Well here is their paper: https://www.fujitsu.com/uk/Images/Ambiq_whitepaper.pdf https://www.fujitsu.com/uk/Images/Ambiq_whitepaper.pdf Also always fun to look at their patents, but who knows which ideas are really used in the chip: https://www.google.com/patents/US7009265?dq=ambiq&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiK_eOwm_fPAhXq5IMKHanxBR0Q6AEISTAG https://www.google.com/patents/US7009265?dq=ambiq&hl=en&sa=X... This thesis seems to have a good overview: http://www.eng.auburn.edu/~agrawvd/THESIS/KIM_S/S.Kim_HonorsThesis_FINAL.pdf http://www.eng.auburn.edu/~agrawvd/THESIS/KIM_S/S.Kim_Honors...