4 ms·

Yeah I think the language change would have been the most interesting thing out of this. So many French words came into English via the Normans.

by trengrj 10y ago

caf 10y ago
I have heard that this is why there is the dichotomy in modern English between the words for meats and the animals from which they come, where the former (eg. pork, compare modern French porc) tends to have a Norman origin and the latter (eg. pig/swine, compare modern German Schwein) an Old English one.
- rfrey 10y ago
  I've heard that too... the Norman aristocracy was eating the meat and using Norman words (pork/porc, beef/boeuf) and the peasants were tending and raising the animals in old English (pig, cow).
  - pygy_ 10y ago
    Indeed, and you can add mutton(mouton)/sheep and (to a lesser extent in modern English) poultry(poulet)/chicken to that list.
pbhjpbhj 10y ago
>So many French words came into English via the Normans. // IIRC those words were not yet French; it always gets a bit confused with languages when we're referring back like this IMO. This is a thorough working - https://slmc.uottawa.ca/?q=french_history https://slmc.uottawa.ca/?q=french_history - it appears to concur that French as a language used across France arose in the 13th Century. To recapitulate: In 1066 France wasn't called France and didn't speak French and yet we [common people of England] talk of the French coming and bringing French language to the English court.
- eric_bullington 10y ago
  > IIRC those words were not yet French; it always gets a bit confused with languages when we're referring back like this IMO. They were Norman French, or just "Norman" is you insist, which was one of the Oïl languages (and as such, closely related to modern French). The written form of the language, at least, is mostly mutually comprehensible with modern French. Also, the Normans were culturally and linguistically akin to the modern French to a much greater extent that the Anglo-Saxon inhabitants of England whom they conquered were akin to the modern English, even if the Normans' heritage was Scandinavian. *studied historical Romance linguistics in university.

Yeah I think the language change would have been the most interesting thing out of this. So many French words came into English via the Normans.

by trengrj 10y ago

Yeah I think the language change would have been the most interesting thing out of this. So many French words came into English via the Normans.

caf 10y ago

I have heard that this is why there is the dichotomy in modern English between the words for meats and the animals from which they come, where the former (eg. pork, compare modern French porc) tends to have a Norman origin and the latter (eg. pig/swine, compare modern German Schwein) an Old English one.

rfrey 10y ago
I've heard that too... the Norman aristocracy was eating the meat and using Norman words (pork/porc, beef/boeuf) and the peasants were tending and raising the animals in old English (pig, cow).
- pygy_ 10y ago
  Indeed, and you can add mutton(mouton)/sheep and (to a lesser extent in modern English) poultry(poulet)/chicken to that list.

pbhjpbhj 10y ago

>So many French words came into English via the Normans. // IIRC those words were not yet French; it always gets a bit confused with languages when we're referring back like this IMO. This is a thorough working - https://slmc.uottawa.ca/?q=french_history https://slmc.uottawa.ca/?q=french_history - it appears to concur that French as a language used across France arose in the 13th Century. To recapitulate: In 1066 France wasn't called France and didn't speak French and yet we [common people of England] talk of the French coming and bringing French language to the English court.

eric_bullington 10y ago
> IIRC those words were not yet French; it always gets a bit confused with languages when we're referring back like this IMO. They were Norman French, or just "Norman" is you insist, which was one of the Oïl languages (and as such, closely related to modern French). The written form of the language, at least, is mostly mutually comprehensible with modern French. Also, the Normans were culturally and linguistically akin to the modern French to a much greater extent that the Anglo-Saxon inhabitants of England whom they conquered were akin to the modern English, even if the Normans' heritage was Scandinavian. *studied historical Romance linguistics in university.