4 ms·

It would be nice if we had either public driving simulators or classes that you could use to improve your driving and response to erratic other drivers. I suspe

It would be nice if we had either public driving simulators or classes that you could use to improve your driving and response to erratic other drivers. I suspect that the lack of this deliberate training is one reason why driving is much more dangerous than flying. Back when I owned a car, it seemed like all of the classes on driving marketed themselves as either: 1) A totally unchallenging formality that will satisfy the requirements for keeping your license. 2) Training for police to use a car as tactically while being shot at. There didn't seem to be any middle ground for people who just felt like they'd like to reduce their chances of killing a cyclist. I wonder if it would profitable to build an arcade machine and charge people to play a more immersive version of Crazy Taxi, GTA, or some prohibition bootlegger simulator.

sigstoat 10y ago
Bridgestone's Winter Driving School comes to mind immediately, http://winterdrive.com/ http://winterdrive.com/ Fundamentally, I think most drivers view driving as just a thing they do, and give no thought to the possibility of improving. So having classes or simulators isn't going to help, because they wouldn't take advantage of them.
- userbinator 10y ago
  So having classes or simulators isn't going to help, because they wouldn't take advantage of them. ...unless it becomes a requirement for a license.
ghaff 10y ago
There are advanced driving classes that people take but they're not really aimed at being a "safer city driver." Example: https://bmwperformancecenter.com/school/bmw https://bmwperformancecenter.com/school/bmw The thing is that it's not so much that most people don't know how they could drive more defensively/safer/etc., it's that they're in a hurry, or they're texting, or otherwise aren't carefully monitoring their surroundings.
drittich 10y ago
That is an amazing idea. I would love it if people were required to spend time in driving simulators practicing spin recovery, emergency braking, etc. This is totally doable and could have a huge impact on accident statistics. It's also a much better way to validate drivers' reaction times and decision-making ability as they age.
- ghaff 10y ago
  In an ideal world, sure. In the real world, what could be the problem with making everyone take a regular test to have the right to continue doing something that's an inherent part of most people working and participating in society? Yes, there are some people driving who probably shouldn't be on the road. But until such times as automation arrives, you'll find exactly zero support for that idea outside the young and fit of Silicon Valley.
  - drittich 10y ago
    I strongly disagree that driving is a right. It is a privilege that should be validated as well as is practical to protect yourself and the rest of society. I don't think we are anywhere near the limits of what is practical. Because we don't currently do this doesn't make it right, or something we shouldn't think of ways to solve. See recent changes in North American society regarding smoking laws. Change can happen faster than you think.
    - Dylan16807 10y ago
      Doesn't matter if it's a birthright (and the use of "to have the right" in that sentence was more the meaning of "entitlement"). It's "an inherent part of most people working and participating in society". You need to change that if you want it to be reasonable to stop more than a few extreme cases from driving.
      - ghaff 10y ago
        Exactly. When the day comes when there are 100% autonomous vehicles--which I don't expect to be particularly soon, but that's another discussion--I think it may be seen as [EDIT: wording] perfectly reasonable to impose stricter licensing requirements on manual vehicles operating on public streets. I'd also add that fatalities are far more often caused by reckless young drivers than by the not so fit and young whose reflexes or eyesight may not be what they once were.
jcrawfordor 10y ago
Most racing schools offer courses that are intended to improve street driving skill - e.g. winter driving is a common one, often with a "skid car" rigged with casters that remove much of the car's weight from the tires so that it will go into slides easily (as if it were on ice). There are also often "defensive driving" courses that cover swerving and fast braking under control. I've taken one of these courses and thought it was absolutely useful and improved my driving. That said, it was pretty expensive, and not well publicized. Basic driver's education in the state I grew up in was state subsidized and offered through the community college so it was quite inexpensive. On the flipside, it was a terrible course, with minimal actual driving time and a terrible case of design for the lowest common denominator. I wonder if more advanced driving courses could be offered the same way, but perhaps they'd fall to the same problems. You might look at motorcycling as a positive example. While many states require the Motorcycle Safety Foundation basic course for a motorcycle endorsement, MSF also publishes an advanced course and various skill courses that seem to be relatively popular amongst motorcyclists. MSF courses are developed by the Foundation and all the materials are licensed (I would assume at nominal cost) to various local organizations that actually teach them, in my area affiliated also with the community college.
- ghaff 10y ago
  As I alluded to in another comment, one of the issues here is that, for most adults in the US, driving is pretty much part and parcel of working and functioning in society. And wishing that everyone lived in cities and that we had futuristic mass transit systems or 100% autonomous cars doesn't change today's reality. Therefore, if we're going to require advanced multi-day driving schools and/or annual physical driving exams (or whatever), you're going to have to explain how that works in a world where many people can barely afford to keep their clunker running and are unemployed if they can't drive. Driving may not be a "right" (whatever that means exactly as we place limits on lots of rights), but I wouldn't want to be the politician who decides to take that "privilege" away from 20% of the population because they missed their annual refresher course or recertification exam.
pjc50 10y ago
The UK driving test's "hazard perception" is a hugely watered-down version of this - you watch a video and press a button when you think you've encountered a hazard. I think a lot of people would benefit from being able to practice their parking in VR rather than with a >£25/h driving instructor.
fpoling 10y ago
In Norway to get a driver license one has to take one-way training where they simulate icy road with field covered with oil. I still remember the feeling when the instructor used hand brake and the car rotated 360 degrees. They also demonstrate how helpful all that modern anti-sliding equipment in cars by disabling it.
jdietrich 10y ago
Here in the UK, we have the Institute of Advanced Motorists. They offer training and assessment to help licensed drivers to become safer drivers. https://www.iamroadsmart.com/courses https://www.iamroadsmart.com/courses
totalZero 10y ago
Driving classes can reduce your insurance costs in some places. That's an incentive too.

sigstoat 10y ago

Bridgestone's Winter Driving School comes to mind immediately, http://winterdrive.com/ http://winterdrive.com/ Fundamentally, I think most drivers view driving as just a thing they do, and give no thought to the possibility of improving. So having classes or simulators isn't going to help, because they wouldn't take advantage of them.

userbinator 10y ago
So having classes or simulators isn't going to help, because they wouldn't take advantage of them. ...unless it becomes a requirement for a license.

ghaff 10y ago

There are advanced driving classes that people take but they're not really aimed at being a "safer city driver." Example: https://bmwperformancecenter.com/school/bmw https://bmwperformancecenter.com/school/bmw The thing is that it's not so much that most people don't know how they could drive more defensively/safer/etc., it's that they're in a hurry, or they're texting, or otherwise aren't carefully monitoring their surroundings.

drittich 10y ago

That is an amazing idea. I would love it if people were required to spend time in driving simulators practicing spin recovery, emergency braking, etc. This is totally doable and could have a huge impact on accident statistics. It's also a much better way to validate drivers' reaction times and decision-making ability as they age.

ghaff 10y ago
In an ideal world, sure. In the real world, what could be the problem with making everyone take a regular test to have the right to continue doing something that's an inherent part of most people working and participating in society? Yes, there are some people driving who probably shouldn't be on the road. But until such times as automation arrives, you'll find exactly zero support for that idea outside the young and fit of Silicon Valley.
- drittich 10y ago
  I strongly disagree that driving is a right. It is a privilege that should be validated as well as is practical to protect yourself and the rest of society. I don't think we are anywhere near the limits of what is practical. Because we don't currently do this doesn't make it right, or something we shouldn't think of ways to solve. See recent changes in North American society regarding smoking laws. Change can happen faster than you think.
  - Dylan16807 10y ago
    Doesn't matter if it's a birthright (and the use of "to have the right" in that sentence was more the meaning of "entitlement"). It's "an inherent part of most people working and participating in society". You need to change that if you want it to be reasonable to stop more than a few extreme cases from driving.
    - ghaff 10y ago
      Exactly. When the day comes when there are 100% autonomous vehicles--which I don't expect to be particularly soon, but that's another discussion--I think it may be seen as [EDIT: wording] perfectly reasonable to impose stricter licensing requirements on manual vehicles operating on public streets. I'd also add that fatalities are far more often caused by reckless young drivers than by the not so fit and young whose reflexes or eyesight may not be what they once were.

jcrawfordor 10y ago

Most racing schools offer courses that are intended to improve street driving skill - e.g. winter driving is a common one, often with a "skid car" rigged with casters that remove much of the car's weight from the tires so that it will go into slides easily (as if it were on ice). There are also often "defensive driving" courses that cover swerving and fast braking under control. I've taken one of these courses and thought it was absolutely useful and improved my driving. That said, it was pretty expensive, and not well publicized. Basic driver's education in the state I grew up in was state subsidized and offered through the community college so it was quite inexpensive. On the flipside, it was a terrible course, with minimal actual driving time and a terrible case of design for the lowest common denominator. I wonder if more advanced driving courses could be offered the same way, but perhaps they'd fall to the same problems. You might look at motorcycling as a positive example. While many states require the Motorcycle Safety Foundation basic course for a motorcycle endorsement, MSF also publishes an advanced course and various skill courses that seem to be relatively popular amongst motorcyclists. MSF courses are developed by the Foundation and all the materials are licensed (I would assume at nominal cost) to various local organizations that actually teach them, in my area affiliated also with the community college.

ghaff 10y ago
As I alluded to in another comment, one of the issues here is that, for most adults in the US, driving is pretty much part and parcel of working and functioning in society. And wishing that everyone lived in cities and that we had futuristic mass transit systems or 100% autonomous cars doesn't change today's reality. Therefore, if we're going to require advanced multi-day driving schools and/or annual physical driving exams (or whatever), you're going to have to explain how that works in a world where many people can barely afford to keep their clunker running and are unemployed if they can't drive. Driving may not be a "right" (whatever that means exactly as we place limits on lots of rights), but I wouldn't want to be the politician who decides to take that "privilege" away from 20% of the population because they missed their annual refresher course or recertification exam.

pjc50 10y ago

The UK driving test's "hazard perception" is a hugely watered-down version of this - you watch a video and press a button when you think you've encountered a hazard. I think a lot of people would benefit from being able to practice their parking in VR rather than with a >£25/h driving instructor.

fpoling 10y ago

In Norway to get a driver license one has to take one-way training where they simulate icy road with field covered with oil. I still remember the feeling when the instructor used hand brake and the car rotated 360 degrees. They also demonstrate how helpful all that modern anti-sliding equipment in cars by disabling it.

jdietrich 10y ago

Here in the UK, we have the Institute of Advanced Motorists. They offer training and assessment to help licensed drivers to become safer drivers. https://www.iamroadsmart.com/courses https://www.iamroadsmart.com/courses

totalZero 10y ago

Driving classes can reduce your insurance costs in some places. That's an incentive too.