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> I like saying controversial things to see if someone will get upset or offended. It's unfortunate this brings selfish joy at the cost of other's suffering, a

> I like saying controversial things to see if someone will get upset or offended. It's unfortunate this brings selfish joy at the cost of other's suffering, all without external attempt to solve the dissonance behind the disagreement.

lsh 10y ago
Why unfortunate? this sort of 'suffering' is minimal and if a person saying controversial things causes upset, then they can grow thicker skin, troll back or find different company.
- reitanqild 10y ago
  Or someone else can step in and flame and/or downvote and/or fire you because we don't want to lose valuable community members, colleagues or employees because of your childish attitude ;-) You are welcome, I feel you have earned my downvote now.
- kordless 10y ago
  > Why unfortunate? This is a leading question. Leading questions are obvious when the question they ask cannot be answered with a simple statement. Leading questions are a sign of dissonance and should never be answered, unless one desires the dissonance for themselves. Dissonance itself creates suffering, which is an inefficient process that attempts to resolve the dissonance in a way that causes the holder the least amount of suffering in the near term. "Thicker skin" is simple a reference to burying dissonance. "Troll back" is a reference to spreading the dissonance to others. "Finding different company" is impossible as the Internet now connects all of us. Better buckle up. It's been my experience people will rationalize being an asshole until they start accepting themselves for who they really are. What is fun is to see someone solve that dissonance on their own and realize the truth that willful suffering is more efficient than offloading your suffering to someone else.
  - RGamma 10y ago
    A question is not a leading/suggestive question just because it "leads the comment". Parent was merely picking up the grandparent's main claim (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leading_question https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leading_question also doesn't define the term by whether it can be answered plainly or not either). That said "something being unfortunate" is a very subjective thing connected to personal morals. Intuitively I don't have much empathy for "victims" of (not outright criminal (by which I mean heavy scamming and the sort)) trolling either, it's the natural rule of this place. You'll get bitten by it a couple of times and move on. Nothing to see here.
    - kordless 10y ago
      > A question is not a leading/suggestive question just because it "leads the comment" That's a highly conflicted argument which I do not accept.
  - gerbilly 10y ago
    >This is a leading question. Leading questions are obvious when the question they ask cannot be answered with a simple statement. Leading questions are a sign of dissonance and should never be answered[...] This reminded me of the famous questions the Buddha refused to answer.[1] Your mentioning 'dissonance' and suffering made me see it in a new way. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_unanswered_questions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_unanswered_questions
KON_Air 10y ago
People getting mad at things on internet are a greater mystery to me then the origin of universe.
- gwright 10y ago
  I find your comment a mystery. The fact that something is communicated via the Internet doesn't magically make it dismissible. Ideas that make people mad can be communicated in all sorts of ways, the medium is irrelevant. So I read your comment as dismissing the concept that words actually have meaning. It seems like a very nihilistic point of view.
  - nradov 10y ago
    The point is that everyone knows (or should know) that Internet communications contain at least 10× more trolling than any other common medium, and thus people should have sufficient emotional self control to avoid getting mad at least until they have definitively determined whether a particular idea is intended to be serious.
    - rosser 10y ago
      The point is that everyone knows (or should know) that dark alleys are at least 10x more dangerous than lighted streets, and thus people should have sufficient situational awareness to avoid getting mugged, blah, blah, blah... Yeah. Uh huh. Exactly. If I could roll my eyes any harder, they'd fall out the back of my head.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - nradov 10y ago
        I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Of course people should avoid high crime areas when practical and maintain situational awareness when out in public. This is simple common sense, and although not 100% effective those steps will drastically reduce the risk of getting mugged. Ask any police officer.
psyc 10y ago
> suffering I think this is the problem right here. If any kind of suffering results, I think it's very much opt-in suffering, much more so than in other situations. The "victim" almost has to want to suffer to experience it. Certain people on forums have always written as if they think forums are a "space" where they "go". Or that such a "place" is automatically a "community". Recently, more and more people opine that one can be made to "feel unsafe" in such a "space" when certain unicode strings appear there. I think this is mistaking of a metaphor for the real thing, that borders on willfully ignorant. I think it's over-dramatic. To me, viewing a web page is much more like opening a magazine or tuning in a radio station. If you read/hear things that offend you, change the channel. This metaphor-mistaking has got to an extreme on Twitter, in particular, with people claiming they're being victimized because "people can @ me without my consent" and "omg my mentions". I definitely subscribe to the Tyler the Creator school of thought on this: https://twitter.com/tylerthecreator/status/285670822264307712 https://twitter.com/tylerthecreator/status/28567082226430771...

lsh 10y ago

Why unfortunate? this sort of 'suffering' is minimal and if a person saying controversial things causes upset, then they can grow thicker skin, troll back or find different company.

reitanqild 10y ago
Or someone else can step in and flame and/or downvote and/or fire you because we don't want to lose valuable community members, colleagues or employees because of your childish attitude ;-) You are welcome, I feel you have earned my downvote now.
kordless 10y ago
> Why unfortunate? This is a leading question. Leading questions are obvious when the question they ask cannot be answered with a simple statement. Leading questions are a sign of dissonance and should never be answered, unless one desires the dissonance for themselves. Dissonance itself creates suffering, which is an inefficient process that attempts to resolve the dissonance in a way that causes the holder the least amount of suffering in the near term. "Thicker skin" is simple a reference to burying dissonance. "Troll back" is a reference to spreading the dissonance to others. "Finding different company" is impossible as the Internet now connects all of us. Better buckle up. It's been my experience people will rationalize being an asshole until they start accepting themselves for who they really are. What is fun is to see someone solve that dissonance on their own and realize the truth that willful suffering is more efficient than offloading your suffering to someone else.
- RGamma 10y ago
  A question is not a leading/suggestive question just because it "leads the comment". Parent was merely picking up the grandparent's main claim (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leading_question https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leading_question also doesn't define the term by whether it can be answered plainly or not either). That said "something being unfortunate" is a very subjective thing connected to personal morals. Intuitively I don't have much empathy for "victims" of (not outright criminal (by which I mean heavy scamming and the sort)) trolling either, it's the natural rule of this place. You'll get bitten by it a couple of times and move on. Nothing to see here.
  - kordless 10y ago
    > A question is not a leading/suggestive question just because it "leads the comment" That's a highly conflicted argument which I do not accept.
- gerbilly 10y ago
  >This is a leading question. Leading questions are obvious when the question they ask cannot be answered with a simple statement. Leading questions are a sign of dissonance and should never be answered[...] This reminded me of the famous questions the Buddha refused to answer.[1] Your mentioning 'dissonance' and suffering made me see it in a new way. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_unanswered_questions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_unanswered_questions

KON_Air 10y ago

People getting mad at things on internet are a greater mystery to me then the origin of universe.

gwright 10y ago
I find your comment a mystery. The fact that something is communicated via the Internet doesn't magically make it dismissible. Ideas that make people mad can be communicated in all sorts of ways, the medium is irrelevant. So I read your comment as dismissing the concept that words actually have meaning. It seems like a very nihilistic point of view.
- nradov 10y ago
  The point is that everyone knows (or should know) that Internet communications contain at least 10× more trolling than any other common medium, and thus people should have sufficient emotional self control to avoid getting mad at least until they have definitively determined whether a particular idea is intended to be serious.
  - rosser 10y ago
    The point is that everyone knows (or should know) that dark alleys are at least 10x more dangerous than lighted streets, and thus people should have sufficient situational awareness to avoid getting mugged, blah, blah, blah... Yeah. Uh huh. Exactly. If I could roll my eyes any harder, they'd fall out the back of my head.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - nradov 10y ago
      I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Of course people should avoid high crime areas when practical and maintain situational awareness when out in public. This is simple common sense, and although not 100% effective those steps will drastically reduce the risk of getting mugged. Ask any police officer.

psyc 10y ago

> suffering I think this is the problem right here. If any kind of suffering results, I think it's very much opt-in suffering, much more so than in other situations. The "victim" almost has to want to suffer to experience it. Certain people on forums have always written as if they think forums are a "space" where they "go". Or that such a "place" is automatically a "community". Recently, more and more people opine that one can be made to "feel unsafe" in such a "space" when certain unicode strings appear there. I think this is mistaking of a metaphor for the real thing, that borders on willfully ignorant. I think it's over-dramatic. To me, viewing a web page is much more like opening a magazine or tuning in a radio station. If you read/hear things that offend you, change the channel. This metaphor-mistaking has got to an extreme on Twitter, in particular, with people claiming they're being victimized because "people can @ me without my consent" and "omg my mentions". I definitely subscribe to the Tyler the Creator school of thought on this: https://twitter.com/tylerthecreator/status/285670822264307712 https://twitter.com/tylerthecreator/status/28567082226430771...