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My mother in law is currently $150,000+ deep on a Facebook romance scam. I believe she's about to send him another $200k or so when her house is sold. Instead o

• whiddershins 10y ago
  I don't fully understand your situation, and it must be horrible and frustrating and painful, but there must be some way you can get through to her?
  • easytiger 10y ago
    Any court will let you take power over her finances. This is a clear cut case. Just ask any bloody lawer
    • michael_h 10y ago
      No, they won't. We can take over her finances if she is declared mentally incompetent. She's not mentally incompetent - she understands everything, but she just disagrees with the crucial bit: that the dude doesn't love her and is scamming her. As the judge told us yesterday: we are walking a fine line, taking over another person's autonomy, but it's not illegal to fall in love and do colossally stupid things.
      • easytiger 10y ago
        I guess the jurisdiction depends. In the UK you'd stand a very good chance of intervening. Indeed oddly enough there was an article about just this yesterday in the UK, i'll see if I can dig it out
        • hilop 10y ago
          UK is pro intervention, but they also go too far seizing children from families. It's impossible to get right in every case.
        • TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
          If signed Power of Attorney paperwork exists already, the Court of Protection will grant it unless another family member objects. You can literally buy the paperwork in supermarkets. Get it signed by the donor and witnessed by anyone at all, and you're set. If there is no signed Power of Attorney paperwork, you have to persuade the Court that the person is no longer mentally competent to look after their own affairs. Handing all of their money to a scammer counts as evidence towards that. But it's not absolutely guaranteed. There would probably be lawyers involved, and the Grant of PoA would be subject to messy and potentially expensive oversight by the Court. Basically it's a good idea to get the paperwork ready well ahead of time, so you're not in a situation where you have to apply for a grant against a very confused person's wishes.
      • zyrthofar 10y ago
        But wouldn't that mean that you and your SO would inherit these debts when she dies, and there's nothing you can do about this? That's truly awful :(.
        • michael_h 10y ago
          I don't think you can inherit cash loan debt. You can inherit property that is still under mortgage (no problem there), but then it's a choice: keep the house and pay the mortgage debt or sell the house/give it to the bank.
        • 10y ago
  • michael_h 10y ago
    The first day he messaged her, we told her it was a scam to take window's money. Four months later, when we discovered she had been talking to him in the intervening months, we showed her a few websites that detail exactly how the romance scam works (matching her situation exactly). Last weekend, when we found out all of her money was gone, we had the police and adult protective services come out and tell her point blank that she was being scammed. She listens, agrees, and then sends him more money.
    • whiddershins 10y ago
      There's an interesting concept I read about, how members of doomsday cults tend to believe MORE strongly after the doomsday date passes and everything is shown to be false. It's something about cognitive dissonance. I wonder if there is a known way to convince someone who is in this state. Cult debunkers and such might have thoughts?
      • kba 10y ago
        William Miller predicted Jesus' return in the year 1843. When that didn't happen, he adjusted his calculations to mean March 21, 1844. When that failed, it became October 22, 1844. He kept modifying his prediction whenever it failed. You'd think being constantly proven wrong would make people stop believing him. That's how the Seventh-day Adventist Church was started. A church that today has more than 18 million members. You can't reason people out of something they didn't reason themselves into.
        • M_Grey 10y ago
          This is also how the JW's started, and frankly continue. The simple, sad reality is: People mostly believe what they want to believe.
          • hilop 10y ago
            Once the snowball starts rolling, the later generations don't care much for the ridiculousness founding myths. It just becomes a traditional culture. Same for all religions, and heck, even nations
  • n72 10y ago
    In my father's case (which sounds similar to micheal_h's), the problem is that the more you give away the more difficult it become to admit it's a scam since you have to admit both that the love you're looking for doesn't exist as well as the fact that you've been a complete idiot. It's a vicious cycle.
    • michael_h 10y ago
      Absolutely. I've heard the phrase "If I quit now, I'll have nothing" about fifty times this week.
• ryuker16 10y ago
  I think shes gone senile. Go see a doctor.
  • michael_h 10y ago
    Probably not senile, but certainly a mental breakdown. Which makes 'seeing a doctor' easier said than done. She's not a gentle lady being tricked out of her cash, she's tenaciously ejecting her money to a dude she thinks she's going to marry, while everyone around her is making her miserable. The whole situation is beyond surreal.
    • logicallee 10y ago
      Can you talk more about when and how many times they've met in person?
      • nkrisc 10y ago
        I imagine she has almost certainly not met anyone in person, that's how these scams work.
        • logicallee 10y ago
          Sure, but how do you believe someone loves you and is going to marry you without seeing them? Buy her a ticket so she can find out
          • nkrisc 10y ago
            People believe all sorts of irrational and outlandish things without a shred of proof, or even with proof to the contrary.
            • logicallee 10y ago
              There is proof to the contrary that "startups work" and that working for equity is a good use of someone's time. I still believe it. It's kind of irrational and outlandish. When I work on startups with others, this isn't a scam. So your terms "irrational", "outlandish", "without a shred of proof" or with "proof to the contrary" is insufficient. You need to come up with a more polarizing differential that can differentiate between a dyed-in-the-wool scam and love amidst sketchy-ass finances.
• fraev 10y ago
  Hack her computer and prevent any further communication.
  • astrodust 10y ago
    Lock it up in storage, refuse to hand over the key.
• xname2 10y ago
  In China, there are also lots of scams targeting on the elders, but it is also common that the bank clerks will call the police and the police will call the family to prevent this kind of transactions from happening.
• planckscnst 10y ago
  Have you considered that your mother probably has all the information necessary to impersonate you and acquire debt on your credit?
  • DamnYuppie 10y ago
    That is a a terrifying if not reasonable statement.
  • withdavidli 10y ago
    Parent poster needs to be very careful of this. One my friends mom had this done to take out car loans/cellular contracts because her credit was crap. Ended up defaulting and ruining his credit, and had his car repossessed. It takes years to rebuild credit and he got stuck with crazy rates for his next car loan (will likely pay 2x-3x worth of car). He refuses to have his mother arrested/report it as fraud to settle any of the previous debt, cause family.
    • ada1981 10y ago
      The cost of co-dependence I suppose.
  • btouellette 10y ago
    Time for a credit freeze
• FungalRaincloud 10y ago
  Reading through your comments, I think there's really only two resolutions to this situation. The first is that your mother in law will run out of funds, and die penniless. From what you say, that seems to be where this is heading. However, the only other resolution I can see is that she realizes on her own what is happening. You can lead her to the water, but you can't make her drink it. Realistically, I see that happening in only one of two ways. Option one is that he admits to it being a scam, and cuts contact himself (or gets arrested for it). I don't think that's likely. However, option two is, as others have said, she could try to plan a surprise (or even a non-surprise) visit. If you propose this, I would recommend you do so in a positive light - don't say anything along the lines of "well, if he's real, he should want to meet, right?". Rather, phrase it as the next logical step. It only makes sense that two lovebirds should meet, after all, so she should accept it pretty readily, if you propose it as what's the next best step for their relationship.
  • deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  • readme 10y ago
    Easier said than done, but option 3: he could go after the scammer.
    • FungalRaincloud 10y ago
      I mean, that's probably the best option for society, but it's going to probably hurt his relationship with her.
  • n72 10y ago
    The meet solution doesn't always work. My father has met a woman whom his scammer claims to be twice. I'm quite sure it's a man behind the emails and this woman has been coerced into meeting him.
• hilop 10y ago
  Why don't you or family scam her first, and then give the money back slowly? The thing about Nigerian 419 scammers is that , like most companies, the people you deal with are low wage call center employees, not the ringleaders who get the profit
  • ryporter 10y ago
    That's not a bad idea. A family member could offer to help the next transfer by personally delivering the cash, just to make sure that such a large transfer is safe.
    • robteix 10y ago
      Wouldn't that constitute theft, though? The intented recipient is stealing, for sure, but if she wants to send the money and you pretend to deliver but keep it...
      • qb45 10y ago
        Yes, that's fishy. And if the scammer has some balls, he will talk the victim into sending the cops after you. Have fun.
• Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  Is the scammer in the US our outside of it? If he is in the US, can you press charges? If he is outside of the US, can she articulate the wedding plans in more detail? Has she looked into immigration law and things like that? Does she have a passport? Have they met? If not, how does she intend on meeting him? Which country are they going to get married in - and will the marriage be legal both places? I mean, I met my spouse over the internet (non-scammy) and the details really are somewhat of a pain, but was worth it for us... and we met a few times before marriage. The gist being more that thinking realistically might help snap her out of it some. If she comes around, are there laws that help victims of scammers that would allow for things like debt relief?
  • michael_h 10y ago
    Lot of questions. Not sure where he is located. She says that she met him for dinner twice in one week. At that point, I think she had given him $90k, so even if he was not local, the incentive to fly out for a week would be pretty high. As for plans, they are characteristically nebulous and not well thought-out. I don't think 'thinking realistically' is going to help. When his VoIP number gets shut down, he messages her and says he got a new number "because his old phone got smashed". When I point out that you don't get a new number when your phone breaks, she shrugs. I showed her an outline of the scam and it matched her situation exactly. I showed her news articles (like this one), I pointed out obvious lies. I wish I could reason my way out of this, but I don't think that's the case. EDIT: as for laws that help people out -> Not that I know of. You can consolidate accrued debt, but that's it.
    • Broken_Hippo 10y ago
      Some of the questions are truly more from someone with experience doing the non-scammy version of 'online dating then marrying' thing. Was more thinking perhaps these sorts of questions might at least get her mind going in the right direction or make things over more quickly. I wound up switching countries, though, so the questions reflect that. The whole situation really sucks, and I hope she finds her way out. Must be really difficult watching the whole thing.
• nurettin 10y ago
  Why don't you submit this as a blog post or pitch it to a news agency as an ongoing reality news story? It is quite detailed, informative and could help prevent future scams. You (and involuntarily your step mother) would be doing the public a service and all this would not be for naught.
• jhulla 10y ago
  I am sorry for your situation. For others who are concerned about this range of problems, consider the following issue carefully: elderly parents who for whatever reason compromise their financial and/or physical health are placing a direct burden on you. Although their debts do not transfer to you, you may very well be on the hook due to familial obligations. E.g. your MIL gives up all of her assets to a fraudster. You cannot bear to see her homeless - so you step in financially. Her actions are now reducing your wealth and quality of life. One solution to this is to anticipate and discuss issues well before they arise. Transfer assets to trusts for grandchildren. Create living trusts where a child is a trustee. Watch your parents' financial accounts. Talk to them about common scams [Nigerian/IRS/Gift card/Email]. Train them to always confirm with a family member before transferring money anywhere. There is also the option of pursuing Guardianship and Conservatorship should that become necessary.
  • hosh 10y ago
    I wrote above about the myths (as in folklore, ancestor wisdom, not "myth" to mean something is superstitious to be dismissed with prejudice) on role reversals. So I get it. Setting up trust funds and other legal instruments is sensible, and it is what I'm planning with my children. On the flip side, I grew up in a Taiwanese household in America. Culturally, such a thing is not considered a burden, and is part of the continuity of lineage. What's fascinating for me is that: (1) There is an assumed incompetency for the elderly (2) Deeper still, seems to me a lot of people in America has trouble with death and dying. Several years ago, my father died of lung cancer. I only got to visit him once, for a week. We arranged for a limited power of attorney to try to get the finances in shape, but I wasn't able to accomplish everything he wished for me. He wanted to make sure I had a legacy from him. I wasn't able to visit him one more time to tell him what his real legacy he left behind was. My sister is an MD, and arranged for an in-home care. She financially took care of my parents even before my dad died -- bought a car for him to drive, bought a fridge for my mom to replace that crusty old thing, paying gas bill because my mother insists on keeping the house at 50F to save on money. I don't think either my sister or I consider that heroic. It's just the thing to do.
• happy-go-lucky 10y ago
  We suffer more from imagination than from reality.
• rdl 10y ago
  I'd try to get her to buy an annuity or some other way of putting the lump sum out of reach in exchange for a fixed revenue stream -- maybe justify it as a tax thing, or what if she lives ~30 more years due to great new medical science, and then convince her to put a credit hold on her own account (to prevent loans).
• zaidf 10y ago
  At the moment, I'm afraid I'm unable to muster the empathy necessary to understand how you could even begin to help the scammer. Is there anyone who can still empathize with her? Strategize with them to help her. Make them the goto person that talks about this topic with her while you are in the background. One of the biggest lessons in my life that I've learned is if I can't empathize with someone, it is very unlikely that I can help them. Of course, this doesn't mean that I am at fault necessarily. But it doesn't matter who is at fault; the fact remains: if I can't empathize, I can't help (and most likely . Since realizing this, I've found it much more productive to find someone who can empathize with that person. Often, this someone is a person who isn't as emotionally invested in the situation as you may be. It might be a friend of hers that she used to be close with a decade ago but has lost touch since. It might be her neighbor she loves talking to because he is always agreeable (so when he disagrees for once, she is more likely to listen.) I'd try to make a shortlist of such people in her life and enlist one or more of them to help your mother-in-law.
  • exolymph 10y ago
    OP is saying they can't empathize with the scammer, not with their mother-in-law (although that may also be true).
    • qb45 10y ago
      I read it as unable to empathize with somebody helping the scammer, which is dangerously close to his MIL.
• zaidf 10y ago
  At the moment, I'm afraid I'm unable to muster the empathy necessary to understand how you could even begin to help the scammer. Is there anyone who can still empathize with her? Strategize with them to help her. Make them the goto person that talks about this topic with her. One of the biggest lessons in my life that I've learned is if I can't empathize with someone, it is very unlikely that I can help them. Of course, this doesn't mean that I am at fault necessarily. But it doesn't matter who is at fault. The fact remains: if I can't empathize, I can't help. Since realizing this, I've found it much more productive to find someone who can empathize with that person. Often, this someone is a person who isn't as emotionally invested in the situation as you may be. It might be a friend of hers that she used to be close with a decade ago but has lost touch since. It might be her neighbor she loves talking to because he is always agreeable (so when he disagrees for once, she is more likely to listen.) I'd try to make a shortlist of such people in her life and enlist one or more of them to help your mother-in-law.
• Johnny555 10y ago
  When my elderly father was becoming careless with his money and giving it away to anyone he perceived to be in "need" ($1,000 or $10,000 at a time), we managed to convince him to give my brother power of attorney - ostensibly to make health care decisions, but in reality, the family moved his funds to a new account that dad didn't know about. This was likely illegal as it was done without his knowledge, but it proved invaluable as it let us afford expensive home health care in the last few years of his life and avoided the need to move him to an assisted living facility (which he staunchly refused to do). It took all of his retirement savings and most of the equity in his house to pay for it. If he'd continued giving away all of his money, as his health declined, he would have had to be moved to a state subsidized care facility when it got to the point that he needed more care than family members could give him at home.
  • clueless123 10y ago
    There is a point in life when like it or not, switching roles with our parents is the right thing to do. The hardest part is accepting that this is necessary.
    • thecourier 10y ago
      this sounds about right. I advice to open a trust fund so changing hands is just question of setting up a new president
    • hosh 10y ago
      There's an interesting myth that Joseph Campbell explained: A Victorian-era dinner table. Everyone dressed up to the nines, about to start a civilized dinner. When the course is served, you realize they were eating their children. Sounds gruesome if you take it literally. Taking it mythically, though, the Father eats the Son, meaning the child becomes the adult. Roles and life is not forever. There is a natural cycle to things, from birth to death, from one generation to the next. In this case, in switching roles, you truly become the adult, and leave behind the last remanent of childhood. And when you grow old enough, it will be your turn, just as it will be for me.
    • 10y ago
• walrus01 10y ago
  There is a legal process for declaring somebody in your family (elderly parents, developmentally disabled persons, etc) incompetent and taking charge of their financial affairs as power of attorney, have you talked to a lawyer?
• qdog 10y ago
  I had a family member lose upwards of $300k before one of her financial agents contacted us. It was a "security system installation and monitoring" guy. Had done it to many people, apparently being the security alarm guy gets a lot of older people to trust you. Luckily we saved some funds and a pension to take care of her, but it was incredibly maddening. It was after another person passed who had kept tabs on her business, as soon as he passed the scam artist started siphoning money. In my case she still trusted me and we got control as she developed dementia, but it took some time and money. If there is anyone else she likes or trusts more than normal, that might be the only person who csn get through. I'm sorry you have to go through this, good luck.
• deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]