5 ms·

If there's an annual fee, most customers expect either excellent rewards or top-tier customer service (e.g. amex). Hard to justify $50/yr for neither of these.

arfrank 10y ago
All companies start somewhere, and when we look at the rewards games being played it becomes beyond a loss leader (been meaning to write up a blog post explaining issuer side economics on interchange). Deals like this: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-17/costco-seen-paying-almost-zero-to-accept-cards-in-citigroup-deal http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-17/costco-see... (<0.40% interchange) make it overly painful to compete at top tier rewards today without having perverse consumer incentives, but we have ideas of where loyalty should go and are driving towards that. As for customer service, we believe you can't tout that as differentiator, you just have to do a great job and your customers will speak for you. Amex did a great job over last 50 years, but is struggling to be relevant in this day and age (http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2015-how-amex-lost-costco/ http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2015-how-amex-lost-costco/)
andrewdietrich 10y ago
M, one of the founders of Final here. We agree there's nothing better than exceptional customer service and experience. We've built Final from the ground up as a new credit card issuer so that we can continue to enhance the technology, service, and experience. We need to make money somehow, and we think an annual fee is the best way to align with our customers. We've spent 3 years to get to this point. We're now live and actively inviting people from our waitlist to apply for a card. We talk to our customers often and ask them what they think about us. We will continue building and making it better. Here's what we've heard: "The few people I’ve showed your service to so far have said “this is what we should have had all along” and I agree." "Final just solved my XM radio problem. I've been trying to cancel XM for a year. Each month I dispute their charges, Amex credits my money back.. but Amex would never just BAN them from charging me. Generated new final number, added to XM, then froze account. Boom." "Final is one of the best banking products I've ever used. You guys could have sat back on your haunches and only delivered the cool feature of generating cards, but the well-designed phone app, the card, and your great customer service make every other card I have in my wallet pale in comparison. I reach for the final card to make daily payments not because of rewards points, but because I see the receipt immediately and I'm able to instantly dispute the charge if necessary. I don't know if there's such thing as 'credit card anxiety', but something about that gives me so much peace-of-mind. Thank you for creating a great product!" And our favorite: "You guys fking killed the UX experience. The site is a pleasure to use."
- OJFord 10y ago
  > The site is a pleasure to use. The site is _annoying_ to use. Nav bar at the top reorders, or shifts width, or something - so I clicked something else instead 'FAQ' a couple of times; each time I had to wait several seconds while the navigation faded in...
- forbiddenlake 10y ago
  My feedback: The virtual card numbers and the ease of generating them are tempting. But I'm already protected from fraud by my existing Citi DoubleCash (2% cash back, no annual fee). I'm not going to lose 1% cash back and the fee to get a Final card.
  - Schweigi 10y ago
    Btw: Citi Double offers virtual numbers too but its a bit hidden on the website and requires flash.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- bogomipz 10y ago
  What type of support do you offer for your card members? Is it email only? When I clicked on "contact us" on your site there was no phone number not even an 800 number.
  - arfrank 10y ago
    Both email and phone, but for full transparency we actually prefer email since it keeps a full log of conversations with consumers for both parties to have. Our card has a number on the back of it and a few other in-app spots have our number on it.
    - bogomipz 10y ago
      Thanks this is good to know. I think many people prefer the immediacy of phone support when they are having a payment issue. I looked through your FAQ and didn't see any mention of support which is why I asked. Congrats on the launch!

arfrank 10y ago

All companies start somewhere, and when we look at the rewards games being played it becomes beyond a loss leader (been meaning to write up a blog post explaining issuer side economics on interchange). Deals like this: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-17/costco-seen-paying-almost-zero-to-accept-cards-in-citigroup-deal http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-17/costco-see... (<0.40% interchange) make it overly painful to compete at top tier rewards today without having perverse consumer incentives, but we have ideas of where loyalty should go and are driving towards that. As for customer service, we believe you can't tout that as differentiator, you just have to do a great job and your customers will speak for you. Amex did a great job over last 50 years, but is struggling to be relevant in this day and age (http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2015-how-amex-lost-costco/ http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2015-how-amex-lost-costco/)

andrewdietrich 10y ago

M, one of the founders of Final here. We agree there's nothing better than exceptional customer service and experience. We've built Final from the ground up as a new credit card issuer so that we can continue to enhance the technology, service, and experience. We need to make money somehow, and we think an annual fee is the best way to align with our customers. We've spent 3 years to get to this point. We're now live and actively inviting people from our waitlist to apply for a card. We talk to our customers often and ask them what they think about us. We will continue building and making it better. Here's what we've heard: "The few people I’ve showed your service to so far have said “this is what we should have had all along” and I agree." "Final just solved my XM radio problem. I've been trying to cancel XM for a year. Each month I dispute their charges, Amex credits my money back.. but Amex would never just BAN them from charging me. Generated new final number, added to XM, then froze account. Boom." "Final is one of the best banking products I've ever used. You guys could have sat back on your haunches and only delivered the cool feature of generating cards, but the well-designed phone app, the card, and your great customer service make every other card I have in my wallet pale in comparison. I reach for the final card to make daily payments not because of rewards points, but because I see the receipt immediately and I'm able to instantly dispute the charge if necessary. I don't know if there's such thing as 'credit card anxiety', but something about that gives me so much peace-of-mind. Thank you for creating a great product!" And our favorite: "You guys fking killed the UX experience. The site is a pleasure to use."

OJFord 10y ago
> The site is a pleasure to use. The site is _annoying_ to use. Nav bar at the top reorders, or shifts width, or something - so I clicked something else instead 'FAQ' a couple of times; each time I had to wait several seconds while the navigation faded in...
forbiddenlake 10y ago
My feedback: The virtual card numbers and the ease of generating them are tempting. But I'm already protected from fraud by my existing Citi DoubleCash (2% cash back, no annual fee). I'm not going to lose 1% cash back and the fee to get a Final card.
- Schweigi 10y ago
  Btw: Citi Double offers virtual numbers too but its a bit hidden on the website and requires flash.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
bogomipz 10y ago
What type of support do you offer for your card members? Is it email only? When I clicked on "contact us" on your site there was no phone number not even an 800 number.
- arfrank 10y ago
  Both email and phone, but for full transparency we actually prefer email since it keeps a full log of conversations with consumers for both parties to have. Our card has a number on the back of it and a few other in-app spots have our number on it.
  - bogomipz 10y ago
    Thanks this is good to know. I think many people prefer the immediacy of phone support when they are having a payment issue. I looked through your FAQ and didn't see any mention of support which is why I asked. Congrats on the launch!