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If you look back far enough, a huge amount of the land we live on was obtained by violence, theft, or deception. If the first person in the chain of ownership g
by Veen 10y ago
If you look back far enough, a huge amount of the land we live on was obtained by violence, theft, or deception. If the first person in the chain of ownership got it by dubious means, they had no right to sell it, and nor did the next person, and so on. By convention, we don't look that far back and ask people to prove their right to ownership. Further back than time immemorial[1] and it's just accepted without further justification.
As for royalty and the church, the United Kingdom is not a republic: it's a constitutional monarchy with an established church (the church is part of the state and the monarch is head of the church).
There may come a time when the church is disestablished (against the wishes of the antidisestablishmentarians — never thought I'd have a chance to use that word on Hacker News) and the monarchy abolished, but for the moment that's what we have and there's no real justification for "removing" the property of either.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_immemorial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_immemorial
- arethuza 10y agoWhat's this established church of the UK?
- jacalata 10y agoThe Church of England, of course! You may have heard of them as Anglicans. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_England https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_England. Edit: technically not established for the whole UK, probably.
- arethuza 10y agoThe C of E is definitely not the established church in Scotland (in fact we don't have an established church - the Church of Scotland is pretty well independent of the state). Then there is Wales, and last but definitely not least when it comes to complicated religious issues, Northern Ireland.
- EdwardDiego 10y agoMy father was from Ulster, and I have a photo of him leading the marching band leading an Orange parade. I also have a confirmation certificate verifying that he's a good Presbyterian who "is loyal to the Queen and loves God"... I thought the ordering of monarch before deity was particularly telling.
- frobozz 10y agoThe Lords Spiritual of the CofE are members of the House of Lords, which is part of the UK parliament, and not an England-only house. Unlike the other nations, England doesn't have any independent government, so it doesn't really make sense to say that the CofE is the established church of England alone, because there is no English establishment for it to be part of. So, the CofE is the (only) established church in and of the of UK. The fact that The Kirk and The Church in Wales are not established just means that the only bishops that get to interfere with everyone else's business are from English bishoprics.
- arethuza 10y agoI can appreciate that argument about the Lords Spiritual - but I can't see how the C of E can be the established religion outside of England. NB Wikipedia would appear to agree with me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_religion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_religion
- frobozz 10y agoYou appear to be right, although it doesn't make sense (like a lot of things here, so it's not that much of a surprise). How can a nation without a government have an established religion?
- Veen 10y agoAs jacalata said, it's the Church of England, the Anglican Church. If you're American, you might be more familiar with the word Episcopalian, which is the American branch of the Anglican Communion, a community of Anglican Churches in various countries around the world. Historically, England (and I'm talking about England here, not Scotland, which has a different arrangement) was a Catholic country, until the Pope wouldn't give Henry VIII a divorce. He created the Church of England with himself as its head. Anglicanism is a broad church with some congregations that are basically similar to Catholicism (outside of the Roman Catholic church) with the ritual and ceremony — High Church congregations — and some which which are Protestant. The Queen is the head of the Church of England, and the Archbishop of Canterbury is the senior priest. Senior members of the Church of England have the right to sit the the House of Lords, which is the second chamber of the British Parliament, so as you can see, the Church, the Monarchy (which is nominally the executive), and the legislature are all tied together — that's what it means to have an established church. edit: messed up the Roman numerals
- 1123581321 10y agoDisestablishment would just remove the CoE's official status with the state. The church would continue to exist and own its property. Likewise, the monarch's family would still own theirs after the abolition of the monarchy. This assumes it isn't stolen by an unjust law or a revolution, of course.