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Ask HN: How to promote side project being a developer with no marketing skills?

• oldmancoyote 10y ago
  Devise a way to find someone to do it for you, someone who knows what he is doing. Don't try to do marketing yourself. Yes, you could probably do it if you worked hard enough and long enough, but the same could be said of open heart surgery. It's not an efficient way to do things.
  • rafapaez 10y ago
    It makes sense. I'm learning a lot doing it myself and I'm actually getting some contacts / networking. However sometimes I feel like I not advancing with my project development as quick as I should because I spend most of my time hooked on reaching people (on Twitter, HN, PH, Reddit, etc.).
• recmend 10y ago
  My side project Nucleus Digest https://digest.meetnucleus.com https://digest.meetnucleus.com index of great startup articles. I promoted on Product Hunt, HN, Relevant Subreddits. Ongoing: publish content on twitter, point resources to HN, Reddit, GH community questions etc.
  • rafapaez 10y ago
    I recently managed to get a "successful" (> 500 votes) launch on ProductHunt as well. Got a few feedback and seems people loved the idea. However I feel I need constantly keep posting and commenting everywhere about the site to keep the momentum and some visits. BTW, I like your Nucleus Digest project. Nice work!
• huwshimi 10y ago
  I have been in exactly the same position a number of times over the years. One day I realised that the reason I gave up promoting them is that I never really knew how my marketing efforts were doing so it always felt a bit futile. This actually inspired my current project, which is all about measuring the results of your marketing (http://flockmetrics.com http://flockmetrics.com). I think several things are helpful here. Understanding the key benefits of your product and figuring out who will most benefit from those features. Once you know that you need to figure out how to explain your product in a way that those people can understand how it helps them and then you need to find those people. I personally have found once I've been through that process and can see that I have a product that will make peoples lives easier it motives me to want to get the product to those people.
  • jazoom 10y ago
    It's sad their pricing model punishes you getting more users so harshly. It's quite expensive for only 1000 new users.
    • huwshimi 10y ago
      The pricing is based on the number of signups per month, so that's 1000 new users per month. Do you feel like that pricing wouldn't work for your situation?
      • jazoom 10y ago
        Maybe it would be worth it for startups with a pricing model similar to yours where each signup provides large revenue, but for a startup that has a very low value per user and needs to have large growth it is not worth it.
        • huwshimi 10y ago
          Yeah, that's interesting. As you say, the pricing was based on looking at the numbers of signups per month for SaaS startups. How to make that work for non SaaS startups, I'm not yet sure.
• joshontheweb 10y ago
  I found this helpful. http://devmarketing.xyz/ http://devmarketing.xyz/ It was just an ebook when I bought it but now its has videos as well. It is a quick no-nonsense read that gives you a good foundation to work from.
  • mijustin 10y ago
    Hey, I'm the guy behind that site ↑. I just checked out transparentstartups.com, and have a few tips that might help you: 1. Identify why you're building the project. Do you want to earn $100,000 in revenue? Build a public profile? Grow an email list for future projects? 2. Determine who exactly your project is for. Is it for investors? Aspiring startup founders? People spying on their competition? 3. Clearly articulate what that audience's major struggle is. Why would they visit transparentstartups.com? How does your site make them better? How does it improve their lives? 4. Cater all your landing page copy to your audience, their primary struggle, and how your site makes them better. 5. Figure out where those people hang out. In your case it's here on HN, Product Hunt, certain Reddit sub-reddits, Slack groups, etc... Find those communities, join, and share your story (you're actually doing a good job in this thread already). Look for ways you can answer questions on the topic of startup revenue, and point people to your site when appropriate. These 5 initial steps form the foundation for everything that comes after. If you understand: your motivation, the people you're looking to help, how you're helping them, and where they hang out, you'll have everything you need to start promoting your project.
    • rafapaez 10y ago
      Hey Justin! Thank you very much for your time on writing this great comment. You made a good point here so I'm going to follow your advice around those tips. At the moment, the only thing I know for sure is WHY I'm building it. Curiously, I did read some time ago your excellent post about the "The freedom ladder" (https://justinjackson.ca/freedom/ https://justinjackson.ca/freedom/). I realised I needed to startup from the bottom. I'd say I'm in the 2nd or 3rd step of the freedom ladder, so I aim to: Make a small project, Release for free, Help people and Build my audience. Obviously, it would be nice to get some revenue later, so I can dedicate my full time to help others with my project, but that's not a priority for me at the moment. I'll continue working not defining those points. I'll also definitely check your book and related new interactive course. Great thanks! Rafa
• Gustomaximus 10y ago
  I feel the comments that you need to hire or partner make sense. If the latter you might feel you are giving a chunk of the business away but if you are walking away anyway you're already loosing 100%. Most importantly you should find a good marketer. Like anyhting there is a buch of snake oil being sold in marketing expertise and ability. I wrote up these points previously for what I've found as a marketer finding/actuating good people; 1) Look for someone that has experience working big and small companies. Big brands will train comms, project management, procedure and how to think at scale. Small brands give the 'getting it done' skills, generalist experience and show they can get technical/dirty hands. Larger brand experience typically looks more impressive but often work has been project management for agencies and doesnt suit hands on efforts or creativity. Likewise if you're business is big enough to run agencies if someone has always been hands on they often struggle as project managers and understanding how to communicate needs in a way that translates well downstream. 2) Dig into exact contributions for past roles. Ask for logic that lead to decisions. Often marketers talk about great campaigns results but really they were a body in a room with little input. Dig for detail and motivations to decisions and you will find out who is who. 3) Look for initiative with intelligence. Many solid looking marketeers repeat what is always done, optimising here and there. That suits some roles and businesses. There's an unrecognised value in the solid citizen employee. But for smaller business looking for exceptional results you need someone who will see the world independently of the current enviroment. This is someone that will deliver results vs turn wheels for the sake of it. Ensure they have this ability to spot entirely new oppurtunity and deliver on it. 4) Experience counts. It's easy to be attracted to enthusuasm but confidence/enthusiasm and ability are often confused. Look for someone that has done things. When looking at people with higher level expereince ensure they can get thier hands dirty. Make sure they have the ability to learn and adapt vs puely strategise. 5) Don't go cheap. I often see startups advertising low paid roles a couple years experience, while they pay for experienced developers. Half the price sounds great but they will bring a fraction of the value. 6) Find someone that can analyse data vs report it. There's a big difference in the 2 and the former is surprisingly rare. 7) Avoid anyone that shows narcissistic tendency or is generally 'me' focused. This personality tends to be bad comms people (especially with social) as they see the world from their POV, not the customers. Also your risking a tough working enviroment. Look for things like how they delivered on a job they felt was wrong or lacked value as well as the usual egocentric viewpoints when they discuss marketing examples. 8) Look for someone that lives marketing beyond thier job. A person that can talk about companies beyond their own and has interest in the wider industry and technologies vs focusing only on thier job. 9) Dont stress about direct inductry experience. Unless there is incredibly niche market knowedge or contacts needed a good marketer will be good regardless of product. 10) Sales and marketing are not the same thing. Know what you need. They dont often come all-in-one. 11) While not an absolute I usually check linkedin contacts to skill endorsements ratio. Typically this ratio is higher for the people I know are good marketers. I wouldn't make my decision by this but is seems one of those soft indicators. 12) When you interview give a 10min exercise before to discuss and cover up real-time actual skills. E.g. show them some relevant to role campaign materials (e.g. landing pages/EDM's) and ask them how they would improve. Ask them what they would do with $50k. Typically I add in some spelling/grammar mistakes to also look for attention to detail as it tends to be a 'you have it or you dont' skill (like initiative) and not something you can train up. Once onboard; 13) Give marketers product input. They should have their finger on the customer pulse and valuable views on what sell/motivates users. Dont let tech side shut out marketing. 14) Make sure they have a budget. This goes well with the above point. Generally I'd say a 10-20x marketing salary would be a good rule of spend if bringing a permanent marketing role in. ...hope that's useful...
• deleted 10y ago
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• behometh 10y ago
  I recommend getting the fundamentals down with Rob Walling's book: http://www.startupbook.net http://www.startupbook.net You'll be walked through the marketing process by a seasoned pro, and you won't have to pay hundreds of dollars either.
• edpichler 10y ago
  It depends on each case. On my case, I send email messages for possible customers, one by one. The conversion is really high.
• tedmiston 10y ago
  Transparent Startups looks awesome. One way is to build projects for an audience that you either know or can reach. That might be something local in your city, HN, etc. Another thing to consider is what your goal is — do you want regular users, paid users, newsletter signups, just feedback, etc? There's also a regularly recommended book called Traction [1] that you might find useful. One of the authors is the founder of DuckDuckGo. [1]: http://tractionbook.com/ http://tractionbook.com/
  • rafapaez 10y ago
    Thanks for your comment. I'd love to have regular engaged users - that will keep me motivated to continue with project. Revenue might come later. I've added this book into my reading queue.
• NetStrikeForce 10y ago
  I've found a person that's good at teaching and we're doing weekly classes. It might not make me a marketing guru, but surely will increase my ability to hire good marketing freelancers.
• fuqted 10y ago
  Everyone knows SPI likely has BS numbers made from very creative accounting. I wouldn't doubt that, that's the case with many of them. I'd be interested to know how much they actually make. I think that this type of thing - going beyond superficial aggregation or testing - would keep your traffic there. Anyway Nathan Barry, the founder of an email marketing company Convert Kit - a company on your list, says it pretty well: the best way to drive traffic to your products is to first drive traffic to yourself. https://vimeo.com/95680313 https://vimeo.com/95680313 - A talk by Nathan Barry (Check out that Vimeo account for more talks from founders) Driving traffic to yourself is typically done with content marketing. Here's a podcast from Empire Flippers - a company on your list - interviewing the founder of another company on the list, WP Curve. https://empireflippers.com/wpcurve/ https://empireflippers.com/wpcurve/ (Note that podcasting and blogging is Empire Flippers' form of content marketing, and a big reason why they're as big as they are) And here's an in depth guide by Neil Patel https://www.quicksprout.com/the-advanced-guide-to-content-marketing/ https://www.quicksprout.com/the-advanced-guide-to-content-ma... (Quicksprout, which seems to be an umbrella company for niche sites, also looks like it has transparent revenue btw) In closing, I'll reiterate that it's probably most important that, like Y Combinator itself says, you build something that people want. You can shoot me an email if you want. I'm a willing wall to bounce ideas off of. ryanacalvo /at/ gmail
  • rafapaez 10y ago
    Hey, thanks for the great info. This is my main focus right, build something that people love. So far the response from the audience about the idea is being great but I really need to grow this audience and spread the word, otherwise my free/social model is not going to work. Btw, I realised this kind of content marketing is very popular nowadays, for example today I was reading this post (https://beanninjas.com/blog/how-dan-norris-built-a-7-figure-wordpress-productized-service-business-in-18-months-with-zero-advertising/ https://beanninjas.com/blog/how-dan-norris-built-a-7-figure-...) which is from a Transparent Startup talking about another one, yeah, interestingly both are featured on TransparentStartups.com
    • fuqted 10y ago
      An interview with Dan is in the second link I gave. Dan Norris, the Bean Ninjas team and the Empire Flippers guys are all part of a mastermind called the Dynamite Circle - which was created by these guys: http://www.tropicalmba.com/profitable-niche-selection-rip-pivot-jam-redux/ http://www.tropicalmba.com/profitable-niche-selection-rip-pi... (Link as an episode on niche selection. They have over 300 podcast episodes). What is your target market with TSps? Where is the monetization? Why can't you login with google? What are you sending them weekly?
• stevekemp 10y ago
  Notice how in the replies many people said "I built a site .."? One of the ways that you promote your site is by talking about it everywhere, especially on posts like this. Of course I'm not advocating spamming forums, or message-boards, but if you find any topic or group which is relevant to your (potential) users you do need to mention it. As a concrete example if you're ever needing easy to update DNS hosting you might enjoy my site too https://dns-api.com/ https://dns-api.com/ ;)
• kamillarott 10y ago
  Nice post. I would add that for engineers to become true marketers, if they want to, it does require some non-trivial mindset shifts http://myessayshelp.org/ http://myessayshelp.org/
• kamillarott 10y ago
  Nice post. I would add that for engineers to become true marketers, if they want to, it does require some non-trivial mindset shifts http://myessayshelp.org/ http://myessayshelp.org/