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It's only when Steve isn't at the helm that we hear about internal projects that have no direction. It was good while it lasted.

by ynniv 10y ago

kbutler 10y ago
I think the key words here are "we hear about". It seems like the Apple Iron Curtain is getting more permeable than it used to be.
- ynniv 10y ago
  That's exactly what I meant. A brand is based on what people know about it, and Steve's tight lipped management meant that projects that weren't yet baked didn't muddy the brand image. Now we have to wonder if Apple makes computers, phones, watches, cars, or not, or maybe they're just a bank? The lack of a unified vision drains the brand energy.
coldtea 10y ago
There were internal projects with no direction all the time under Steve as well. Heck there were even EXTERNAL projects with no direction, like the Apple TV (still flailing around), the Apple Cloud offerings (only got robust in the last 2 years or so, and the most touted part back then, the "office"-like iCloud apps are universally ignored), the Apple boom box, and other things besides.
- digi_owl 10y ago
  I can't help but wonder that during both runs of Jobs at the helm, Apple was basically making products tailored for the wants of one man: Steve Jobs. Supposedly the iPod launched with a idiosyncratic equalizer, apparently tuned to Jobs tastes.
  - chipotle_coyote 10y ago
    I don't think I've heard a story about the equalizer, but I think in general you're right. It worked out that Jobs hit on products that were successful enough of the time, but "idiosyncratic" seemed to be one of his defining characteristics. A few of Jobs's products were so wildly successful that we tend to forget or gloss over the ones that, well, weren't so much. I think idiosyncratic also describes Jony Ive -- but as a pundit (possibly John Gruber?) put it on a podcast recently, Jobs was a better editor. He was good at zeroing on what made designs work rather than merely beautiful. If I have any major criticism of the post-Jobs Apple, it's that they seem to prioritize aesthetics over functionality. I know that's a knock that critics made against them long before the Tim Cook era, but I don't think it was really true until post-Forstall. (And no, I don't mean losing the headphone jack. I mean more things like the entire UX of the new Apple TV, from the beautiful user interface which makes navigating through multiple seasons of a TV show an endlessly scrolling nightmare compared to the previous model's design to the thin, elegant, ergonomically disastrous remote control. Ive seems particularly drawn to the notion that thinness and symmetry are more important than usability.)
    - SysArchitect 10y ago
      What app causes you issues with scrolling through multiple seasons? A lot of apps let you select the season from some sort of "drop down" or display a list of seasons vertically and let you scroll through individual episodes horizontally within that season...
applecarcont 10y ago
The interesting question is what has Jony Ive been up to? The Apple Watch needed a design reboot (and the Edition is practically dead) and now supposedly so does the Apple Car (at his behest[1]). A third iteration of the iPhone design and no new Macs designs (yet). He/Cook seized power from Forstall but there's been little outright success/breakthroughs to show since then [1] http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/01/25/apples-project-titan-at-crossroads-team-in-hiring-freeze-source-says http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/01/25/apples-project-tit...
- Q6T46nT668w6i3m 10y ago
  Management, maybe
- AppleCarThrowAw 10y ago
  From what I've heard (and take this with a pyramid of salt because it's an anonomous internet comment) Jony Ive is essentially on a sabbatical and hasn't been seen on Apple's campus since before Summer. If I had to guess, he wants to leave Apple, but is staying on either until some unspecified product reveal or because he has to wait-out stock options or something.
  - applecarcont 10y ago
    He wasn't at the Fall iPhone event iirc...
    - ibero 10y ago
      he was. you can see him chatting with Stephen Fry in the background of this product shot. http://imgur.com/a/f8lt9 http://imgur.com/a/f8lt9
  - hiringmanager 10y ago
    Apple Kremlinology is a hobby of mine. I have seen a lot of little data points that support your hypothesis. Ive has a house in London, his family is in England. He brought in a major designer recently-a friend that was played off as a partner, but might well have been him naming his replacement. He does not appear in any keynotes, but does appear in videos- or used to. This is in decline as well. (which is good because he was getting stale. "we stripped it down to the essential of what is a [timepice/phone/car] and once you remove what's unnecessary blah blah". I believe that a creative type like him has trouble operating under the demands of a corporation like Apple at that level, and that he did so for so long because his collaboration with Jobs was very intense and personal, and that this is not something he can have with Cook. Under Cook he is supposed to be the one who replaces Jobs in that role (while Cook is an execution guy.) I believe he is participating and staying around only so long as necessary to get things ready for him to leave. He's earned a retirement and some time to follow interesting design work that is not relevant to Apple's business.

It's only when Steve isn't at the helm that we hear about internal projects that have no direction. It was good while it lasted.

by ynniv 10y ago

It's only when Steve isn't at the helm that we hear about internal projects that have no direction. It was good while it lasted.

kbutler 10y ago

I think the key words here are "we hear about". It seems like the Apple Iron Curtain is getting more permeable than it used to be.

ynniv 10y ago
That's exactly what I meant. A brand is based on what people know about it, and Steve's tight lipped management meant that projects that weren't yet baked didn't muddy the brand image. Now we have to wonder if Apple makes computers, phones, watches, cars, or not, or maybe they're just a bank? The lack of a unified vision drains the brand energy.

coldtea 10y ago

There were internal projects with no direction all the time under Steve as well. Heck there were even EXTERNAL projects with no direction, like the Apple TV (still flailing around), the Apple Cloud offerings (only got robust in the last 2 years or so, and the most touted part back then, the "office"-like iCloud apps are universally ignored), the Apple boom box, and other things besides.

digi_owl 10y ago
I can't help but wonder that during both runs of Jobs at the helm, Apple was basically making products tailored for the wants of one man: Steve Jobs. Supposedly the iPod launched with a idiosyncratic equalizer, apparently tuned to Jobs tastes.
- chipotle_coyote 10y ago
  I don't think I've heard a story about the equalizer, but I think in general you're right. It worked out that Jobs hit on products that were successful enough of the time, but "idiosyncratic" seemed to be one of his defining characteristics. A few of Jobs's products were so wildly successful that we tend to forget or gloss over the ones that, well, weren't so much. I think idiosyncratic also describes Jony Ive -- but as a pundit (possibly John Gruber?) put it on a podcast recently, Jobs was a better editor. He was good at zeroing on what made designs work rather than merely beautiful. If I have any major criticism of the post-Jobs Apple, it's that they seem to prioritize aesthetics over functionality. I know that's a knock that critics made against them long before the Tim Cook era, but I don't think it was really true until post-Forstall. (And no, I don't mean losing the headphone jack. I mean more things like the entire UX of the new Apple TV, from the beautiful user interface which makes navigating through multiple seasons of a TV show an endlessly scrolling nightmare compared to the previous model's design to the thin, elegant, ergonomically disastrous remote control. Ive seems particularly drawn to the notion that thinness and symmetry are more important than usability.)
  - SysArchitect 10y ago
    What app causes you issues with scrolling through multiple seasons? A lot of apps let you select the season from some sort of "drop down" or display a list of seasons vertically and let you scroll through individual episodes horizontally within that season...

applecarcont 10y ago

The interesting question is what has Jony Ive been up to? The Apple Watch needed a design reboot (and the Edition is practically dead) and now supposedly so does the Apple Car (at his behest[1]). A third iteration of the iPhone design and no new Macs designs (yet). He/Cook seized power from Forstall but there's been little outright success/breakthroughs to show since then [1] http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/01/25/apples-project-titan-at-crossroads-team-in-hiring-freeze-source-says http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/01/25/apples-project-tit...

Q6T46nT668w6i3m 10y ago
Management, maybe
AppleCarThrowAw 10y ago
From what I've heard (and take this with a pyramid of salt because it's an anonomous internet comment) Jony Ive is essentially on a sabbatical and hasn't been seen on Apple's campus since before Summer. If I had to guess, he wants to leave Apple, but is staying on either until some unspecified product reveal or because he has to wait-out stock options or something.
- applecarcont 10y ago
  He wasn't at the Fall iPhone event iirc...
  - ibero 10y ago
    he was. you can see him chatting with Stephen Fry in the background of this product shot. http://imgur.com/a/f8lt9 http://imgur.com/a/f8lt9
- hiringmanager 10y ago
  Apple Kremlinology is a hobby of mine. I have seen a lot of little data points that support your hypothesis. Ive has a house in London, his family is in England. He brought in a major designer recently-a friend that was played off as a partner, but might well have been him naming his replacement. He does not appear in any keynotes, but does appear in videos- or used to. This is in decline as well. (which is good because he was getting stale. "we stripped it down to the essential of what is a [timepice/phone/car] and once you remove what's unnecessary blah blah". I believe that a creative type like him has trouble operating under the demands of a corporation like Apple at that level, and that he did so for so long because his collaboration with Jobs was very intense and personal, and that this is not something he can have with Cook. Under Cook he is supposed to be the one who replaces Jobs in that role (while Cook is an execution guy.) I believe he is participating and staying around only so long as necessary to get things ready for him to leave. He's earned a retirement and some time to follow interesting design work that is not relevant to Apple's business.