6 ms·

Their hardware is decent (not excellent, but decent) on the quality factor Who builds better quality hardware than Apple?

by phil 17y ago

mahmud 17y ago
Have you ever owned an IBM Thinkpad?
- codyrobbins 17y ago
  Yes, and it didn’t pass the creak test.
  - jrockway 17y ago
    Yeah, but it does pass the "accidentally spilled coffee on my keyboard test".
    - mattmaroon 17y ago
      Mine passed the "getting dropped from 3-5 feet on about 700 different occasions" test.
      - jfarmer 17y ago
        Mine passed the got-run-over-by-an-SUV test, modulo a new external keyboard and monitor.
        nick-dap 17y ago
        Mine had a cracked motherboard because I was apparently picking it up off the table wrong, by the corner vs gently holding it on both sides, as designed. IBM initially claimed that it was water damage (6 months prior), searching online revealed a small army with the same problem as I. I still use that ThinkPad (well minus the new motherboard) on my electronics bench, but to say that its on par with the iPhone or Mac Pro in terms of quality is laughable. The whole thing looks and feels like its made out of recycled plastic. Its so ugly it looks rugged. And I still love the damn thing... go figure.
        DrSprout 17y ago
        >The whole thing looks and feels like its made out of recycled plastic. Wait, I thought that Apple was the eco-conscious company.
        asciilifeform 17y ago
        > Mine had a cracked motherboard because I was apparently picking it up off the table wrong, by the corner vs gently holding it on both sides Same as mine. Replaced with MacBook Air, without regrets.
        jrockway 17y ago
        What vintage? I remember seeing that Lenovo added a "roll cage" to the Thinkpad line that supposedly allows it to be run over by a car. I found a 1990s Thinkpad in my desk at work. It's makes for an excellent step ladder.
    - anc2020 17y ago
      My sister's didn't. More RAM for me (and my next laptop will also be a thinkpad)!
- cpach 17y ago
  IBM:s ThinkPads seems really sturdy. But has the quality been maintained since Lenovo bought the ThinkPad brand?
  - bokchoi 17y ago
    yes it has
- api 17y ago
  I can't get past the blue "ThinkVantage" key. It's like a big pimple that says "a douchebag designed this." It also has no purpose once you install a real operating system, since the software that it invokes only runs on that crummy OS they ship it with.
  - tomjen3 17y ago
    You need to get over yourselves then. Thinkpads are really well made because they are not made to please some designers - they are made to be used.
    - tomjen3 17y ago
      Ok that came of way too snarky. What I was attempting to say was that Thinkpads were (I haven't used any that were made by the Chinese manufacture so I can't answer for them) made to be used and were designed to handle the hits and spills that would happen naturally over the course of such work (the keyboard had drainage, the hinges were extra enforced and it could take quite a few drops). On the other hand my iPod has already got three scratches in it. One was because my keys were in my pocket (which I do all the time with my cell, without any issues) the other when when I dropped it two feet (of my bed, and not on purpose). Sure the iPod stuff is nice, but I wouldn't rely on it for actual work.
      - api 17y ago
        I agree. I actually prefer Toughbooks for that reason. The biggest thing I dislike about Apple's hardware is that you have to treat it like a family heirloom. It is more durable than cheap PC hardware though, which is why I called it middle-of-the-road in terms of durability. But I still massively prefer the aesthetics and designs of Apple's hardware. I do not see why you couldn't design a Toughbook-type machine with sparse Apple-like aesthetics. In fact, it almost seems like it would make it easier... fewer connectors and buttons means less points for liquid entry, eliminating extra drives means fewer moving parts, etc. If I ditched Apple for Linux, I'd probably take a look at the Sony Vaios... they're pretty sparse and seem well made.
- ahoyhere 17y ago
  My friend's IBM Thinkpad went through 3 video cards and a motherboard before she replaced it with a MacBook Pro.
- phil 17y ago
  No, but I have coworkers that do. They're nice machines, but they're still a collection of plastic components, and don't have the tight tolerances and clever case design that one sees in recent MacBooks.
mgcross 17y ago
After working in Mac-centric development environments for the past 12 years, I can't say I'm enamored with Apple's hardware track record. The desktops have been for the most part reliable, but the laptops and iMacs have not fared so well. All 12 iMac G5s we purchased were serviced under Apple Care at least once - some went twice. And the survivors all have obnoxious fan noise problems. I remember a generation of PowerBook G4s that had a problem with the display losing connection. Plenty of those went back as well. Externally, they are designed very nicely, and the internals of the desktops have always impressed me. I'd love to see something else similar come along. The closest I can remember is the old MIPS-based SGIs.
- jodrellblank 17y ago
  G5s? G4s? It's been 4 years since they switched to Intel. All that says is that at least 4 years ago they weren't making great laptops. "To argue against an idea honestly, you should argue against the best arguments of the strongest advocates." - http://lesswrong.com/lw/lw/reversed_stupidity_is_not_intelligence/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/lw/reversed_stupidity_is_not_intelli... Rephrase the question, then, who makes better laptop hardware than the Aluminium Unibody MBP?
  - ZeroGravitas 17y ago
    Does it count if someone makes something that does the same job at a quarter of the price, so that if you flex it too much, or run it over with your car, or leave it on the bus then you can replace it and still be saving half the price? Or are we forced to accept Apple's business model as a given, just like Microsoft fought against the netbook pricing model because it began to make their OS pricing look ridiculous?
    - MWinther 17y ago
      No, because it's not about the initial purchase price. It's about having your stuff crammed into a piece of hardware, and for most people being dependent on that stuff being readily accessible. That's why the "it just works" attitude is very powerful amongst the almost entire population for whom replacing hardware is a really huge deal, because they a) have to be without their stuff for the time it takes for the computer repair guy to fix it, and b) because they're scared pantless that their stuff will have been destroyed. If you're not in the know, broken computer _might_ mean loss of data. That thought means loss of sleep.

Their hardware is decent (not excellent, but decent) on the quality factor Who builds better quality hardware than Apple?

by phil 17y ago

Their hardware is decent (not excellent, but decent) on the quality factor Who builds better quality hardware than Apple?

mahmud 17y ago

Have you ever owned an IBM Thinkpad?

codyrobbins 17y ago
Yes, and it didn’t pass the creak test.
- jrockway 17y ago
  Yeah, but it does pass the "accidentally spilled coffee on my keyboard test".
  - mattmaroon 17y ago
    Mine passed the "getting dropped from 3-5 feet on about 700 different occasions" test.
    - jfarmer 17y ago
      Mine passed the got-run-over-by-an-SUV test, modulo a new external keyboard and monitor.
      - nick-dap 17y ago
        Mine had a cracked motherboard because I was apparently picking it up off the table wrong, by the corner vs gently holding it on both sides, as designed. IBM initially claimed that it was water damage (6 months prior), searching online revealed a small army with the same problem as I. I still use that ThinkPad (well minus the new motherboard) on my electronics bench, but to say that its on par with the iPhone or Mac Pro in terms of quality is laughable. The whole thing looks and feels like its made out of recycled plastic. Its so ugly it looks rugged. And I still love the damn thing... go figure.
        DrSprout 17y ago
        >The whole thing looks and feels like its made out of recycled plastic. Wait, I thought that Apple was the eco-conscious company.
        asciilifeform 17y ago
        > Mine had a cracked motherboard because I was apparently picking it up off the table wrong, by the corner vs gently holding it on both sides Same as mine. Replaced with MacBook Air, without regrets.
      - jrockway 17y ago
        What vintage? I remember seeing that Lenovo added a "roll cage" to the Thinkpad line that supposedly allows it to be run over by a car. I found a 1990s Thinkpad in my desk at work. It's makes for an excellent step ladder.
  - anc2020 17y ago
    My sister's didn't. More RAM for me (and my next laptop will also be a thinkpad)!
cpach 17y ago
IBM:s ThinkPads seems really sturdy. But has the quality been maintained since Lenovo bought the ThinkPad brand?
- bokchoi 17y ago
  yes it has
api 17y ago
I can't get past the blue "ThinkVantage" key. It's like a big pimple that says "a douchebag designed this." It also has no purpose once you install a real operating system, since the software that it invokes only runs on that crummy OS they ship it with.
- tomjen3 17y ago
  You need to get over yourselves then. Thinkpads are really well made because they are not made to please some designers - they are made to be used.
  - tomjen3 17y ago
    Ok that came of way too snarky. What I was attempting to say was that Thinkpads were (I haven't used any that were made by the Chinese manufacture so I can't answer for them) made to be used and were designed to handle the hits and spills that would happen naturally over the course of such work (the keyboard had drainage, the hinges were extra enforced and it could take quite a few drops). On the other hand my iPod has already got three scratches in it. One was because my keys were in my pocket (which I do all the time with my cell, without any issues) the other when when I dropped it two feet (of my bed, and not on purpose). Sure the iPod stuff is nice, but I wouldn't rely on it for actual work.
    - api 17y ago
      I agree. I actually prefer Toughbooks for that reason. The biggest thing I dislike about Apple's hardware is that you have to treat it like a family heirloom. It is more durable than cheap PC hardware though, which is why I called it middle-of-the-road in terms of durability. But I still massively prefer the aesthetics and designs of Apple's hardware. I do not see why you couldn't design a Toughbook-type machine with sparse Apple-like aesthetics. In fact, it almost seems like it would make it easier... fewer connectors and buttons means less points for liquid entry, eliminating extra drives means fewer moving parts, etc. If I ditched Apple for Linux, I'd probably take a look at the Sony Vaios... they're pretty sparse and seem well made.
ahoyhere 17y ago
My friend's IBM Thinkpad went through 3 video cards and a motherboard before she replaced it with a MacBook Pro.
phil 17y ago
No, but I have coworkers that do. They're nice machines, but they're still a collection of plastic components, and don't have the tight tolerances and clever case design that one sees in recent MacBooks.

mgcross 17y ago

After working in Mac-centric development environments for the past 12 years, I can't say I'm enamored with Apple's hardware track record. The desktops have been for the most part reliable, but the laptops and iMacs have not fared so well. All 12 iMac G5s we purchased were serviced under Apple Care at least once - some went twice. And the survivors all have obnoxious fan noise problems. I remember a generation of PowerBook G4s that had a problem with the display losing connection. Plenty of those went back as well. Externally, they are designed very nicely, and the internals of the desktops have always impressed me. I'd love to see something else similar come along. The closest I can remember is the old MIPS-based SGIs.

jodrellblank 17y ago
G5s? G4s? It's been 4 years since they switched to Intel. All that says is that at least 4 years ago they weren't making great laptops. "To argue against an idea honestly, you should argue against the best arguments of the strongest advocates." - http://lesswrong.com/lw/lw/reversed_stupidity_is_not_intelligence/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/lw/reversed_stupidity_is_not_intelli... Rephrase the question, then, who makes better laptop hardware than the Aluminium Unibody MBP?
- ZeroGravitas 17y ago
  Does it count if someone makes something that does the same job at a quarter of the price, so that if you flex it too much, or run it over with your car, or leave it on the bus then you can replace it and still be saving half the price? Or are we forced to accept Apple's business model as a given, just like Microsoft fought against the netbook pricing model because it began to make their OS pricing look ridiculous?
  - MWinther 17y ago
    No, because it's not about the initial purchase price. It's about having your stuff crammed into a piece of hardware, and for most people being dependent on that stuff being readily accessible. That's why the "it just works" attitude is very powerful amongst the almost entire population for whom replacing hardware is a really huge deal, because they a) have to be without their stuff for the time it takes for the computer repair guy to fix it, and b) because they're scared pantless that their stuff will have been destroyed. If you're not in the know, broken computer _might_ mean loss of data. That thought means loss of sleep.