4 ms·

As a guy who grew up in French immersion schools in Canada, I consider myself to be fluent in French, although my grammar isn't quite perfect. I don't mentally

As a guy who grew up in French immersion schools in Canada, I consider myself to be fluent in French, although my grammar isn't quite perfect. I don't mentally translate it to English in order to understand it, at any rate. Recently, I took a short trip that included a few days in Paris, and I made a point of defaulting to French when starting conversations. However, for the most part, as soon as a French person realizes that French is not my first language, they switch the conversation to English, even if their English is worse than my French (according to my perception). I wonder if this is unique to the culture of France, or at least Paris, that they do not like to hear their language from a foreigner? Maybe the language is part of a group identity, used to identify locals who can be trusted to follow local customs? It was a little saddening. In Africa and the Middle East however, when I am in predominantly French speaking communities, the locals seem quite happy to have conversations in French, even though our accents differ greatly.

Mikeb85 10y ago
It's mainly so they can practice their English, or just what they're used to with most foreigners. Leave the centre of Paris and they'll speak French, leave Paris and they won't speak English at all.
tux3 10y ago
>I wonder if this is unique to the culture of France, or at least Paris, that they do not like to hear their language from a foreigner? Maybe the language is part of a group identity, used to identify locals who can be trusted to follow local customs? It was a little saddening. I'm sorry to hear that. As a Parisian, I don't think this had anything to do with protecting an identity, rather we're just as happy to practice our (often terrible!) English as you are to practice your French!
- happyslobro 10y ago
  Haha, I never even considered that angle. Sorry for jumping to conclusions. Paris was amazing, and the people were merveilleux :)
- adrianratnapala 10y ago
  The French used to have a reputation for haughtily refusing to speak anything but French to tourists. I never observed such behaviour though. Was this reputation always a myth? Or is it something that used to happen until a cultural change took place?
e12e 10y ago
No, this isn't unique. If you know English (and I assume everyone here does), that'll likely be one of the highest barriers to clear when trying to learn a foreign language. People will either want to be helpful and speak English, or they'll want to practice English - or both. Volunteering with exchange students in Norway[1], those that generally learn Norwegian the best in a year here, living in a Norwegian family, going to Norwegian school - are those that either speak little or no English, or those that manage to insist on speaking Norwegian (to the point of pretending not to understand English, even if that's their native language). A suitable trade-off might be to make a deal with your friends/co-workers - only <native language> on Fridays, or (as you progress) English only allowed after hours Monday through Thursday etc. For exchange students in the age group 16-18, those that speak a related native language (ie: indo-european), will generally start speak the language after 3 months, reaching fluency after 6 (a little faster for German, Dutch, a little slower for Spanish, French - about in-between for English). For those that don't (eg: Japanese), the bars are moved: starting to speak the language after 6, and fluency after a little less than 9 (slower start, but they tend to catch up). It's quite refreshing to learn a language by immersion, rather than by tedious school lessons - the same way we all learn as children. Another tip is to avoid jumping between languages as much as possible - or at least only jump between your native tongue, and the foreign language you're studying. Your brain seem to work better with immersion. As for my personal experience, I learned English in school, from reading books and magazines, and watching movies and tv programs. While I agree that tv/film production often have overly clear dialogue - watching films first with subtitles, and later without, is great practice (for those that want a challenge in American English, I recommend trying to watch all of HBO's "The Wire" without subtitles). After years of French in school, I also speak and understand some French, but I would probably have to go live some months in France (or some other place people speak French) in order to attain what I'd call proper fluency. After spending a year as an exchange student in Japan, I'd say I speak fluent Japanese, but not quite at native level - I'm also somewhat stuck at "high-school" level, so I'm not quite comfortable in a "grown up" work setting. After my year there, it felt like I'd forgotten all my French - but as I've gradually improved my Japanese, my French as "come back". Finally, I haven't seen singing mentioned here. Singing is a great way to improve pronunciation. For what it's worth, I've heard people say that learning languages get easier after the fifth one. If I'm not counting Danish and Swedish (which one really shouldn't, as a Norwegian) I guess that means I have one more to go after I manage to brush off my French. [1] http://www.afs.org/ http://www.afs.org/

Mikeb85 10y ago

It's mainly so they can practice their English, or just what they're used to with most foreigners. Leave the centre of Paris and they'll speak French, leave Paris and they won't speak English at all.

tux3 10y ago

>I wonder if this is unique to the culture of France, or at least Paris, that they do not like to hear their language from a foreigner? Maybe the language is part of a group identity, used to identify locals who can be trusted to follow local customs? It was a little saddening. I'm sorry to hear that. As a Parisian, I don't think this had anything to do with protecting an identity, rather we're just as happy to practice our (often terrible!) English as you are to practice your French!

happyslobro 10y ago
Haha, I never even considered that angle. Sorry for jumping to conclusions. Paris was amazing, and the people were merveilleux :)
adrianratnapala 10y ago
The French used to have a reputation for haughtily refusing to speak anything but French to tourists. I never observed such behaviour though. Was this reputation always a myth? Or is it something that used to happen until a cultural change took place?

e12e 10y ago

No, this isn't unique. If you know English (and I assume everyone here does), that'll likely be one of the highest barriers to clear when trying to learn a foreign language. People will either want to be helpful and speak English, or they'll want to practice English - or both. Volunteering with exchange students in Norway[1], those that generally learn Norwegian the best in a year here, living in a Norwegian family, going to Norwegian school - are those that either speak little or no English, or those that manage to insist on speaking Norwegian (to the point of pretending not to understand English, even if that's their native language). A suitable trade-off might be to make a deal with your friends/co-workers - only <native language> on Fridays, or (as you progress) English only allowed after hours Monday through Thursday etc. For exchange students in the age group 16-18, those that speak a related native language (ie: indo-european), will generally start speak the language after 3 months, reaching fluency after 6 (a little faster for German, Dutch, a little slower for Spanish, French - about in-between for English). For those that don't (eg: Japanese), the bars are moved: starting to speak the language after 6, and fluency after a little less than 9 (slower start, but they tend to catch up). It's quite refreshing to learn a language by immersion, rather than by tedious school lessons - the same way we all learn as children. Another tip is to avoid jumping between languages as much as possible - or at least only jump between your native tongue, and the foreign language you're studying. Your brain seem to work better with immersion. As for my personal experience, I learned English in school, from reading books and magazines, and watching movies and tv programs. While I agree that tv/film production often have overly clear dialogue - watching films first with subtitles, and later without, is great practice (for those that want a challenge in American English, I recommend trying to watch all of HBO's "The Wire" without subtitles). After years of French in school, I also speak and understand some French, but I would probably have to go live some months in France (or some other place people speak French) in order to attain what I'd call proper fluency. After spending a year as an exchange student in Japan, I'd say I speak fluent Japanese, but not quite at native level - I'm also somewhat stuck at "high-school" level, so I'm not quite comfortable in a "grown up" work setting. After my year there, it felt like I'd forgotten all my French - but as I've gradually improved my Japanese, my French as "come back". Finally, I haven't seen singing mentioned here. Singing is a great way to improve pronunciation. For what it's worth, I've heard people say that learning languages get easier after the fifth one. If I'm not counting Danish and Swedish (which one really shouldn't, as a Norwegian) I guess that means I have one more to go after I manage to brush off my French. [1] http://www.afs.org/ http://www.afs.org/