5 ms·

The second one in particular. Why bother with owning a house or a car if not with the end goal in mind of supporting kids? It's all for naught otherwise. If you

by blfr 10y ago

The second one in particular. Why bother with owning a house or a car if not with the end goal in mind of supporting kids? It's all for naught otherwise. If you don't have anyone you need to provide with stability, you're better off renting and ubering. You can always live within walking distance from your workplace for example. Also, while you don't have to wear a suit, many, many adults would benefit greatly from dressing like adults. Sure, the times change, fashions come and go, models of behaviour change a little, but putting effort in your appearance is timeless. When I see a guy in his 40s wearing cargo shorts, I'm thinking "arrested development."

dasmoth 10y ago
>>> Why bother with owning a house or a car if not with the end goal in mind of supporting kids? That's an incredibly... urban...? [1] point of view. For me, the #1 argument for owning a car is flexibility -- knowing you've got the option to drop things at a moment's notice and head off to... wherever. Owning a house is also an enabler for things which might be meaningful to those without children: building up and maintaining a garden, for one. Hobbies which need a decent-sized, stable, workshop tend to be easier in a house you own than in a rental, too. (We do have a child now, but my wife and I owned both house and car for years before deciding we wanted children. And now have rather less time for hobbies that make houses and cars essential...) [1] Not so much in the specifically "city" sense, but in the sense of preferring external infrastructure vs. building up and maintaining enough infrastructure of your own to feel somewhat self-sufficient.
- blfr 10y ago
  That's an incredibly... urban...? Yes. I was going to add car racing or some offroader as an exception but most people live in cities and don't have that kind of hobbies. And it's probably still more convenient to join a hacker space.
  - dasmoth 10y ago
    I don't think we're going to agree on this one. Hackerspace vs. "own workshop" are completely different things. If objective convenience is your only metric, Hackerspace might well win, but living near one places a lot of constraints on other areas of your lifestyle, and it's never going to give a feeling of self-sufficiency. (Edit: this shouldn't be taken as a criticism of Hackerspaces -- they're a great compromise for people who otherwise like the tradeoffs that urban lifestyles bring, and can be fun to visit even if you don't need to borrow the tools).
- e12e 10y ago
  Yes and no. I'd have a hard time driving from Norway to the US, or Japan. I might drive to Germany, but it would be much more pleasant to fly, take a combination of train and boat, or just go by train. There are certainly perks to having a car - around here, being able to just drive a few kilometers (beyond walk/bike distance) opens up new hiking routes, for example. But isn't that what friends are for? ;-)
  - rsync 10y ago
    "Yes and no. I'd have a hard time driving from Norway to the US, or Japan. I might drive to Germany, but it would be much more pleasant to fly, take a combination of train and boat, or just go by train." I encourage you, no, plead with you - drive your car to Germany. It's so much fun and so enjoyable and spontaneous to drive internationally. You can stop anywhere something interests you and hold to whatever timeline you like. One of the more stupefying cultural traits of young europeans that I know is the unwillingness (even among car owners) to take driving vacations. This is especially unbelievable when you consider that europeans could literally drive to China, let alone Italy/Greece/Russia/CZ/Spain/Turkey/etc.
    - jacquesm 10y ago
      Also: driving is experiencing the change of landscape, culture and the inhabitants bit by bit (assuming frequent stops), rather than to have the illusion that there is an aluminum tube stretching from say Berlin to Barcelona. Flying for me is business.
skybrian 10y ago
I don't know, it seems to me that being grown-up (or maybe just old) means no longer caring what other people think, particularly about fashion.
return0 10y ago
Feeling of safety? I m richer than my siblings who have kids because i was more driven. If i dont have own kids, nieces will inherit, however that's not my main motivation.
rayiner 10y ago
> The second one in particular. Why bother with owning a house or a car if not with the end goal in mind of supporting kids? Sweet tax bennies, at least in the U.S.
- varjag 10y ago
  Do you really ever begin to break even with those on the expenses you have on kids over your lifetime?
  - rayiner 10y ago
    I meant the house. Kids are huge money sinks.
wyager 10y ago
The very approximate rule of thumb is that purchasing is economically preferable to renting if you're planning to live in that location for more than 4 or 5 years. I'm not sure how you figure that owning a car is related to raising children. If I had to guess, I would say you lived in a very dense urban environment. Your statement just seems kind of insane anywhere else. Given that I have interests outside of work, I don't actually want to live within three minutes of my workplace if there's more fun to be had living farther away. Based on the wording of your last paragraph, it sounds like you may not actually have a good argument for wearing nice clothes, and are just advocating it because that's what you see other people doing. The reason I try to dress nicely is that it's cheap psychological hack. For whatever reason, most people, including myself to some degree, have some sort of innate bias towards people who look well dressed. This could be because it correlates with social status, or wealth, or any other number of factors, but regardless of why it's the case, it's a very cheap way to buy social credit. It's up to you whether or not this increase in social credit is worth the financial and comfort cost of wearing nice clothes.

by blfr 10y ago

dasmoth 10y ago

>>> Why bother with owning a house or a car if not with the end goal in mind of supporting kids? That's an incredibly... urban...? [1] point of view. For me, the #1 argument for owning a car is flexibility -- knowing you've got the option to drop things at a moment's notice and head off to... wherever. Owning a house is also an enabler for things which might be meaningful to those without children: building up and maintaining a garden, for one. Hobbies which need a decent-sized, stable, workshop tend to be easier in a house you own than in a rental, too. (We do have a child now, but my wife and I owned both house and car for years before deciding we wanted children. And now have rather less time for hobbies that make houses and cars essential...) [1] Not so much in the specifically "city" sense, but in the sense of preferring external infrastructure vs. building up and maintaining enough infrastructure of your own to feel somewhat self-sufficient.

blfr 10y ago
That's an incredibly... urban...? Yes. I was going to add car racing or some offroader as an exception but most people live in cities and don't have that kind of hobbies. And it's probably still more convenient to join a hacker space.
- dasmoth 10y ago
  I don't think we're going to agree on this one. Hackerspace vs. "own workshop" are completely different things. If objective convenience is your only metric, Hackerspace might well win, but living near one places a lot of constraints on other areas of your lifestyle, and it's never going to give a feeling of self-sufficiency. (Edit: this shouldn't be taken as a criticism of Hackerspaces -- they're a great compromise for people who otherwise like the tradeoffs that urban lifestyles bring, and can be fun to visit even if you don't need to borrow the tools).
e12e 10y ago
Yes and no. I'd have a hard time driving from Norway to the US, or Japan. I might drive to Germany, but it would be much more pleasant to fly, take a combination of train and boat, or just go by train. There are certainly perks to having a car - around here, being able to just drive a few kilometers (beyond walk/bike distance) opens up new hiking routes, for example. But isn't that what friends are for? ;-)
- rsync 10y ago
  "Yes and no. I'd have a hard time driving from Norway to the US, or Japan. I might drive to Germany, but it would be much more pleasant to fly, take a combination of train and boat, or just go by train." I encourage you, no, plead with you - drive your car to Germany. It's so much fun and so enjoyable and spontaneous to drive internationally. You can stop anywhere something interests you and hold to whatever timeline you like. One of the more stupefying cultural traits of young europeans that I know is the unwillingness (even among car owners) to take driving vacations. This is especially unbelievable when you consider that europeans could literally drive to China, let alone Italy/Greece/Russia/CZ/Spain/Turkey/etc.
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    Also: driving is experiencing the change of landscape, culture and the inhabitants bit by bit (assuming frequent stops), rather than to have the illusion that there is an aluminum tube stretching from say Berlin to Barcelona. Flying for me is business.

skybrian 10y ago

I don't know, it seems to me that being grown-up (or maybe just old) means no longer caring what other people think, particularly about fashion.

return0 10y ago

Feeling of safety? I m richer than my siblings who have kids because i was more driven. If i dont have own kids, nieces will inherit, however that's not my main motivation.

rayiner 10y ago

> The second one in particular. Why bother with owning a house or a car if not with the end goal in mind of supporting kids? Sweet tax bennies, at least in the U.S.

varjag 10y ago
Do you really ever begin to break even with those on the expenses you have on kids over your lifetime?
- rayiner 10y ago
  I meant the house. Kids are huge money sinks.

wyager 10y ago

The very approximate rule of thumb is that purchasing is economically preferable to renting if you're planning to live in that location for more than 4 or 5 years. I'm not sure how you figure that owning a car is related to raising children. If I had to guess, I would say you lived in a very dense urban environment. Your statement just seems kind of insane anywhere else. Given that I have interests outside of work, I don't actually want to live within three minutes of my workplace if there's more fun to be had living farther away. Based on the wording of your last paragraph, it sounds like you may not actually have a good argument for wearing nice clothes, and are just advocating it because that's what you see other people doing. The reason I try to dress nicely is that it's cheap psychological hack. For whatever reason, most people, including myself to some degree, have some sort of innate bias towards people who look well dressed. This could be because it correlates with social status, or wealth, or any other number of factors, but regardless of why it's the case, it's a very cheap way to buy social credit. It's up to you whether or not this increase in social credit is worth the financial and comfort cost of wearing nice clothes.