6 ms·

I'm always intrigued by this desire for integration. Even if you want to have one device that is mainly a phone but also a PC when you connect it to an external

I'm always intrigued by this desire for integration. Even if you want to have one device that is mainly a phone but also a PC when you connect it to an external 24" screen and keyboard - why can't it have totally different UX experiences optimized for each state? Is that really so bad? Windows 8 was a UX disaster - so maybe that's just coloring my judgement. I haven't used Ubuntu on mobile yet so guess I need to try it.

V-2 10y ago
They shouldn't be totally different. Common look and feel is welcome in my opinion. Then obviously they should be customized to adjust for different input devices and screen sizes. It can be done without repeating the Windows 8 fiasco - which seemed to be tailored for touch-input devices, leading to clunky experience on a regular PC. Eg. see Remix OS, or Android for desktop: http://www.jide.com/remixos http://www.jide.com/remixos It's Android, but from the look of it, it's adapted nicely: https://youtu.be/TjAxCWO84L4 https://youtu.be/TjAxCWO84L4 (I admit I haven't used it myself, but even if there are some quirks not visible at first glance, my point is not that Remix OS hit the sweet spot, only that it can be done in principle).
jug 10y ago
Yes, I think Windows 10 is a more mature and sane take on this concept, where the "apps" can now run windowed as usual. Makes the transition _much_ less jarring, and is more like how RemixOS also mentioned in the comments here does it with Android.
- digi_owl 10y ago
  Will be interesting to see if OEMs will adopt floating mode for tablets and such with Android 7.
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    Right now what I am seeing is the majority of tablets with keyboards are being sold with Windows 10 on them, lets see if OEMs decide to sell Android 7 as well.
wyldfire 10y ago
> why can't it have totally different UX experiences optimized for each state? Is that really so bad? Gee, not only is it not bad it seems like it's really good. The context seems so different as to necessitate different UX.
- pbhjpbhj 10y ago
  It sounds like you're conflating UX and UI? The UI can differ massively within an overarching consistent UX.
  - wyldfire 10y ago
    Yes, perhaps I am.
WayneBro 10y ago
Windows 8 was not a UX disaster. It just wasn't finished. How long did you use it for? I personally used it the whole time it was available. Despite the fact that it was unfinished, it was still vastly superior in many ways to other desktop systems. So, I'm quite certain that I don't know what you mean at all when you say "UX disaster".
- simonh 10y ago
  Most actual users had a disastrous experience of it. Hence user experience disaster.
  - WayneBro 10y ago
    "Most actual users"? How about a citation?
    - V-2 10y ago
      "Most" isn't probably true, but the number was quite significant, indirectly confirmed by Microsoft by backing down from some design decisions in version 8.1 (bringing the Start button back) and 10 (restoring the more traditional-looking Start menu). Userbase pressure was an obvious factor in these choices / concessions. I can't recollect anything similar in the history of Windows UX.
    - agumonkey 10y ago
      I consider myself experienced and unbiased, but the visual inconsistencies (animation glitches, awkward scales and proportions) drove me away from trying Win8 longer. I'd be very curious to have more details about your experience with it considering your above message.
  - krylon 10y ago
    To be fair, I work as a sysadmin / helpdesk monkey / sometimes-developer at a Windows shop, and the amount of complaints about Windows 8 was a lot lower than I had expected. A couple of users did ask me, however, to install ClassicShell on their machines. (Windows 8 has given me more trouble sysadmin-wise than its predecessors, but most of that was due to third-party software. Especially, Windows 8 will regularly hang on startup say "Please wait...", at least on some machines - but that has nothing to do with the GUI.) Personally, I still think the lack of a start menu is very disruptive - and since Microsoft re-introduced it in Windows 10 makes me think I was not alone in thinking so.
Sylos 10y ago
I used to have the same opinion until I found an example of UI continuity which actually helped me learn a different UI quicker and didn't feel like it held me back once I had learned it. But well, that wasn't continuity between phone and desktop. It was continuity between GUI and CLI (openSUSE's YaST). Whether it really makes sense trying to find a compromise between [mouse&keyboard + big screen] and [touch + small screen] is then again an entirely different question. And in my opinion, this isn't happening until we have a good generic solution for projecting the vast number of different screens that you need on a phone UI to one big, densely-settled screen as is necessary for a good desktop UI.
Zardoz84 10y ago
I'm a user of a convertible Table PC. Windows 8.1 was really pleasant to use. In special compared against Windows 7.
wvenable 10y ago
Windows 8 was a separate UI for desktop and tablet. Windows 10, for comparison, more closely combines the tablet and desktop modes. Windows 8 was a disaster and Windows 10, at least for desktop/tablets, is more of a success. I think the problem with completely different UX experiences is exactly that. People want a similar experience with the same software. Microsoft assumed with Windows 8 that the tablet interface would work on the desktop but people don't want that watered down of an experience. Windows 10 at least lets you use tablet-designed applications on the desktop in a more integrated way.
- baldfat 10y ago
  > Windows 8 was a separate UI for desktop and tablet Wait what? The "Metro" was the combining of the GUI for touch and mouse. I actually prefer the Win 8 UI since it is more of a tiled window manager like I use in Linux. Windows 10 is back to click with a mouse. Windows 8 I never touched the mouse unless I needed it in a program. > Windows 10, for comparison, more closely combines the tablet and desktop modes It was a move away from Tablets and back to laptop desktop focus.
  - wvenable 10y ago
    > The "Metro" was the combining of the GUI for touch and mouse... I never touched the mouse unless I needed it in a program. The Metro interface was not optimized for mouse operations; it was a touch UI you could "touch" with a mouse. All apps were full screen. UI elements were hidden and meant to be swiped from the sides of the screen. Nothing about Metro seemed to be optimized for the desktop. But thankfully you could completely switch modes and have a regular Windows 7-like desktop experience. When I ran Windows 8.1 it booted straight to the desktop, I used ClassicShell for the start menu, and I never saw a single metro app. With Windows 10 can run metro applications in regular desktop windows as well as switch to tablet mode and run regular desktop applications and metro apps full screen or tiled.
    - baldfat 10y ago
      The "Metro" was also optimized for keyboards

V-2 10y ago

They shouldn't be totally different. Common look and feel is welcome in my opinion. Then obviously they should be customized to adjust for different input devices and screen sizes. It can be done without repeating the Windows 8 fiasco - which seemed to be tailored for touch-input devices, leading to clunky experience on a regular PC. Eg. see Remix OS, or Android for desktop: http://www.jide.com/remixos http://www.jide.com/remixos It's Android, but from the look of it, it's adapted nicely: https://youtu.be/TjAxCWO84L4 https://youtu.be/TjAxCWO84L4 (I admit I haven't used it myself, but even if there are some quirks not visible at first glance, my point is not that Remix OS hit the sweet spot, only that it can be done in principle).

jug 10y ago

Yes, I think Windows 10 is a more mature and sane take on this concept, where the "apps" can now run windowed as usual. Makes the transition _much_ less jarring, and is more like how RemixOS also mentioned in the comments here does it with Android.

digi_owl 10y ago
Will be interesting to see if OEMs will adopt floating mode for tablets and such with Android 7.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  Right now what I am seeing is the majority of tablets with keyboards are being sold with Windows 10 on them, lets see if OEMs decide to sell Android 7 as well.

wyldfire 10y ago

> why can't it have totally different UX experiences optimized for each state? Is that really so bad? Gee, not only is it not bad it seems like it's really good. The context seems so different as to necessitate different UX.

pbhjpbhj 10y ago
It sounds like you're conflating UX and UI? The UI can differ massively within an overarching consistent UX.
- wyldfire 10y ago
  Yes, perhaps I am.

WayneBro 10y ago

Windows 8 was not a UX disaster. It just wasn't finished. How long did you use it for? I personally used it the whole time it was available. Despite the fact that it was unfinished, it was still vastly superior in many ways to other desktop systems. So, I'm quite certain that I don't know what you mean at all when you say "UX disaster".

simonh 10y ago
Most actual users had a disastrous experience of it. Hence user experience disaster.
- WayneBro 10y ago
  "Most actual users"? How about a citation?
  - V-2 10y ago
    "Most" isn't probably true, but the number was quite significant, indirectly confirmed by Microsoft by backing down from some design decisions in version 8.1 (bringing the Start button back) and 10 (restoring the more traditional-looking Start menu). Userbase pressure was an obvious factor in these choices / concessions. I can't recollect anything similar in the history of Windows UX.
  - agumonkey 10y ago
    I consider myself experienced and unbiased, but the visual inconsistencies (animation glitches, awkward scales and proportions) drove me away from trying Win8 longer. I'd be very curious to have more details about your experience with it considering your above message.
- krylon 10y ago
  To be fair, I work as a sysadmin / helpdesk monkey / sometimes-developer at a Windows shop, and the amount of complaints about Windows 8 was a lot lower than I had expected. A couple of users did ask me, however, to install ClassicShell on their machines. (Windows 8 has given me more trouble sysadmin-wise than its predecessors, but most of that was due to third-party software. Especially, Windows 8 will regularly hang on startup say "Please wait...", at least on some machines - but that has nothing to do with the GUI.) Personally, I still think the lack of a start menu is very disruptive - and since Microsoft re-introduced it in Windows 10 makes me think I was not alone in thinking so.

Sylos 10y ago

I used to have the same opinion until I found an example of UI continuity which actually helped me learn a different UI quicker and didn't feel like it held me back once I had learned it. But well, that wasn't continuity between phone and desktop. It was continuity between GUI and CLI (openSUSE's YaST). Whether it really makes sense trying to find a compromise between [mouse&keyboard + big screen] and [touch + small screen] is then again an entirely different question. And in my opinion, this isn't happening until we have a good generic solution for projecting the vast number of different screens that you need on a phone UI to one big, densely-settled screen as is necessary for a good desktop UI.

Zardoz84 10y ago

I'm a user of a convertible Table PC. Windows 8.1 was really pleasant to use. In special compared against Windows 7.

wvenable 10y ago

Windows 8 was a separate UI for desktop and tablet. Windows 10, for comparison, more closely combines the tablet and desktop modes. Windows 8 was a disaster and Windows 10, at least for desktop/tablets, is more of a success. I think the problem with completely different UX experiences is exactly that. People want a similar experience with the same software. Microsoft assumed with Windows 8 that the tablet interface would work on the desktop but people don't want that watered down of an experience. Windows 10 at least lets you use tablet-designed applications on the desktop in a more integrated way.

baldfat 10y ago
> Windows 8 was a separate UI for desktop and tablet Wait what? The "Metro" was the combining of the GUI for touch and mouse. I actually prefer the Win 8 UI since it is more of a tiled window manager like I use in Linux. Windows 10 is back to click with a mouse. Windows 8 I never touched the mouse unless I needed it in a program. > Windows 10, for comparison, more closely combines the tablet and desktop modes It was a move away from Tablets and back to laptop desktop focus.
- wvenable 10y ago
  > The "Metro" was the combining of the GUI for touch and mouse... I never touched the mouse unless I needed it in a program. The Metro interface was not optimized for mouse operations; it was a touch UI you could "touch" with a mouse. All apps were full screen. UI elements were hidden and meant to be swiped from the sides of the screen. Nothing about Metro seemed to be optimized for the desktop. But thankfully you could completely switch modes and have a regular Windows 7-like desktop experience. When I ran Windows 8.1 it booted straight to the desktop, I used ClassicShell for the start menu, and I never saw a single metro app. With Windows 10 can run metro applications in regular desktop windows as well as switch to tablet mode and run regular desktop applications and metro apps full screen or tiled.
  - baldfat 10y ago
    The "Metro" was also optimized for keyboards