9 ms·

Samsung temporarily halts production of Galaxy Note 7

85 points by soupboy 10y ago

dcip6s 10y ago
They really need to do a full recall and refund for all sold Note 7 phones as well.
- brianwawok 10y ago
  T-Mobile at least has a full recall. Would be surprised if other carriers are not as well.
newscracker 10y ago
The incidents involving phones that were sleeping and not having the batteries being actively charged seem to indicate some major design issue. To battery experts: Is this a one-off design and/or manufacturing error or are we reaching some limits to what we can do with current lithium battery technology with respect to Ah rating, size, weight, quick charging ability, heat generated with fan-less dissipation, etc.? In other words, is it just a matter of time that other phone manufacturers would hit such issues too?
- ddeck 10y ago
  This is certainly not the first such case and it's unlikely to be the last. I recall Sony having numerous recalls related to similar issues. It's the nature of dense energy storage media to run into problems if the energy is allowed to be released too quickly, but the characteristics of Li-ion do make it more conducive to cause these type of incidents. Battery university has a nice explanation of the typical causes here: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/safety_concerns_with_li_ion http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/safety_concerns_w... Also, "Charge and Catch Fire: A History of Exploding Batteries and Other Product Recalls": https://www.thestreet.com/slideshow/13728952/1/samsung-s-battery-debacle-and-a-recent-history-of-exploding-batteries-plus-other-infamous-recalls.html https://www.thestreet.com/slideshow/13728952/1/samsung-s-bat...
  - tarancato 10y ago
    >if the energy is allowed to be released too quickly Wasn't this the problem? That the kernel was drawing too much voltage from the battery, or something like that I read.
    - Dylan16807 10y ago
      Lithium ion batteries can supply a lot of power, especially relative to what a cell phone uses. I would be very surprised if the batteries were failing because of too much power draw, rather than a combination of faulty manufacturing and overheating.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
      I'm no electronics engineer, but I don't think "drawing too much voltage" is a thing. As current goes up, resistance has to go down, so there will be a voltage drop across the battery terminals. That's my understanding, someone correct me if I'm wrong, or otherwise help clear this up?
      - dietrichepp 10y ago
        Resistance is a simplification of characteristic curves, which themselves are simplifications. You can easily get a voltage drop across battery terminals, you just have to put the battery in series with another battery. This is dangerous. You could also hook up an active current sink. Again, dangerous. There is nothing preventing the internal battery resistance from causing the terminals to go negative except for the simple fact that most equipment we connect to batteries will stop working before that point is reached (unless you hook batteries in series—which is why batteries in series must be close to identical, so they run out at the same time).
        Unklejoe 10y ago
        I just want to point out that batteries are often connected in series in regular devices. Many devices where there are two AA batteries (TV remotes, etc...) usually have the batteries wired in series. They need to do it to get the voltage high enough for some of the components. Additionally, many batteries are actually made from multiple smaller batteries wired in series internally. For example, some 9V batteries are actually just 6 regular 1.5V batteries wired in series. Of course, in these configurations, they generally discharge at a similar rate.
johnchristopher 10y ago
What are the financial consequences for Samsung and its suppliers ?
- JumpCrisscross 10y ago
  Given the political leaders of Korea and financial owners of Samsung are the same: not much, likely.
pawadu 10y ago
This is so sad. I recently saw a Note 7 in action and after only 2 minutes I was ready to shell out $700 and buy my first ever Samsung phone. Anyway, maybe this gives other good Android manufacturers (specially HTC and Sony) a chance to make a comeback.
laurentdc 10y ago
I wonder why, I mean, it's a battery after all. They've pulled off probably a hundred other phone designs and they aren't new to the market. What's particularly wrong with the Note 7 that they can't fix in a PCB or battery redesign?
- artofcode 10y ago
  By now I would say the image of the Note 7 (and the replacements) being associated with exploding batteries. It might be best to ditch the Note 7 and move on to a newly named phone.
- mirekrusin 10y ago
  They are probably going to kill the name and wrap fixed internals in new box with new name.
  - venomsnake 10y ago
    Samsung ISIS edition?
    - mirekrusin 10y ago
      Samsung Daesh is the new thing this week, no?
gjolund 10y ago
Hopefully now people will realize that every battery powered laptop and phone on an airplane is a potential bomb.
- Shivetya 10y ago
  It will be interesting if any major air carriers decide to ban the brand from flight. with regards to your comment the industry should strive to show otherwise and there should not be any reason to not be able to predict this type of failure occurring at the device level. there certainly have to be some telltale signs that are detectable
  - Cthulhu_ 10y ago
    I haven't heard about that yet, but, there has already been an instance where a plane was evacuated over a Note 7 catching fire.
  - zmk_ 10y ago
    On Lufthansa flights you are not allowed to have Note 7s powered on. They make a special announcement about it.
    - newscracker 10y ago
      It doesn't seem to matter that the phone is powered down, as shown by this incident on a South West airlines flight where the Note 7 caught fire after it was powered down. Here's an excerpt from an interview by The Verge on this incident [1]: "Green said that he had powered down the phone as requested by the flight crew and put it in his pocket when it began smoking." [1]: http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/5/13175000/samsung-galaxy-note-7-fire-replacement-plane-battery-southwest http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/5/13175000/samsung-galaxy-no...
  - gjolund 10y ago
    Im not talking about defects, but malicious tampering. I may not be able to get a bomb on board, but I sure as shit can short circuit a laptop battery and start a fire.
throw2016 10y ago
Samsung has been dragging their feet on this. Their response has lacked clarity and urgency. Paradoxially this kind of tepid circumspect response designed to first protect the brand has a far greater chance of damaging the brand permanently than coming clean unequivocally and proactively taking full responsiblity. The second approach you take a loss but live to fight another day, the first the public begin to harbour doubts about your commitment to safety and your users and that can cast a long shadow on your future products.
- simonh 10y ago
  I don't think they were trying to protect the brand, they were trying to protect their bank balance by avoiding recalling, replacing and ultimately scrapping the product line.
  - Cthulhu_ 10y ago
    But they already had recalled the model, the first version, which can be exchanged for what was supposed to be a 'safe' model. Didn't work out for them.
- deong 10y ago
  Honestly, I thought their initial response was fine. There were probably a few too many incidents before a recall was announced, but it happened pretty quickly, and you have to give them a bit of time to do their own internal "what the hell is going on" assessment. Fairly quickly though, they announced a global recall, communicated what to do to their customers, and said all the right things to make it right. My wife bought one the day after launch. Once the recall started, there was nothing tepid or ambiguous. She got multiple direct communications laying out the steps to take for the recall. The big problems are (a) they didn't actually seem to get it fixed, (b) they didn't actually seem to get it fixed, and (c) the appearance (and possible reality) that they cut corners initially to get to market before the iPhone.
elcapitan 10y ago
Are those accidents caused by faulty batteries, or by the way the electronics make use of them?
superdupermanhe 10y ago
good corporate espionage from xyz competitor
BinaryIdiot 10y ago
In my opinion, other than the whole catching-on-fire-thing, the Note 7 was one of the best, if the the best Android device out today. Least amount of bloatware on a Samsung yet, they unified the software for the S Pen, the S Pen is better this time around, and it just looks gorgeous. I'm not sure what the problem is. Maybe Samsung rushed it, maybe it's a defect in some supplier made component, etc I have no idea but it does seem rather unfortunate and kinda sad to see such a nice phone not only be effectively done but it likely caused a lot of brand damage to Samsung in general (lots of reports of airline employees saying Samsung Galaxy phones, not just notes, are not allowed which granted is probably a misunderstanding but the brand impact is there). My wife currently has a replaced Note 7 and she absolutely loves it and hates that she'll probably have to give it up.
Unklejoe 10y ago
What gets me is the fact that they did the recall and produced a new version of the phone which was supposed to fix the issue, yet now there are reports of the replacement units doing the same thing. Seems like they either jumped to conclusions and mis-identified the problem, or they attempted to fix the problem with a band-aid solution with the hopes of reducing the probability of failure just enough to make the issue "go away". On a more personal note: I hope this gives other Android phone manufacturers a chance to gain some market share. Primarily, I want HTC to do well. They seem to be one of the most friendly when it comes to unlocking the bootloader (you can do it via their website). I really wanted to get the Galaxy S7, but after finding out that the versions with the SnapDragon SoC will have locked bootloaders, I decided not to. In my experience, Samsung's version of Android has never been that great. Without the ability to flash custom ROMs and remove some of that useless crap, I just couldn't bring myself to make the purchase.
- TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
  > Seems like they either jumped to conclusions and mis-identified the problem, or they attempted to fix the problem with a band-aid solution with the hopes of reducing the probability of failure just enough to make the issue "go away". That seems very likely. It's very easy to screw up the fix for a serious issue when you're in a rush. I've deployed my fair share of broken bugfixes.
- erikpukinskis 10y ago
  Probably because the nominal situation isn't "no defects", it's that the defects are below a certain threshold. They can get a sample below a certain threshold but it's not a guarantee that the actual full scale production would be. It'd be smart to give the tolerances some extra headroom on the second go-around, but I would guess that in order to get additional certainty on their sample, they would need to run their testing program for longer while the inventory is piling up. And I have to imagine with a production the scale of the Galaxy there are immense pressures to get that inventory moving. But it sounds like they gambled and lost.

85 points by soupboy 10y ago

dcip6s 10y ago

They really need to do a full recall and refund for all sold Note 7 phones as well.

brianwawok 10y ago
T-Mobile at least has a full recall. Would be surprised if other carriers are not as well.

newscracker 10y ago

The incidents involving phones that were sleeping and not having the batteries being actively charged seem to indicate some major design issue. To battery experts: Is this a one-off design and/or manufacturing error or are we reaching some limits to what we can do with current lithium battery technology with respect to Ah rating, size, weight, quick charging ability, heat generated with fan-less dissipation, etc.? In other words, is it just a matter of time that other phone manufacturers would hit such issues too?

ddeck 10y ago
This is certainly not the first such case and it's unlikely to be the last. I recall Sony having numerous recalls related to similar issues. It's the nature of dense energy storage media to run into problems if the energy is allowed to be released too quickly, but the characteristics of Li-ion do make it more conducive to cause these type of incidents. Battery university has a nice explanation of the typical causes here: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/safety_concerns_with_li_ion http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/safety_concerns_w... Also, "Charge and Catch Fire: A History of Exploding Batteries and Other Product Recalls": https://www.thestreet.com/slideshow/13728952/1/samsung-s-battery-debacle-and-a-recent-history-of-exploding-batteries-plus-other-infamous-recalls.html https://www.thestreet.com/slideshow/13728952/1/samsung-s-bat...
- tarancato 10y ago
  >if the energy is allowed to be released too quickly Wasn't this the problem? That the kernel was drawing too much voltage from the battery, or something like that I read.
  - Dylan16807 10y ago
    Lithium ion batteries can supply a lot of power, especially relative to what a cell phone uses. I would be very surprised if the batteries were failing because of too much power draw, rather than a combination of faulty manufacturing and overheating.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
    I'm no electronics engineer, but I don't think "drawing too much voltage" is a thing. As current goes up, resistance has to go down, so there will be a voltage drop across the battery terminals. That's my understanding, someone correct me if I'm wrong, or otherwise help clear this up?
    - dietrichepp 10y ago
      Resistance is a simplification of characteristic curves, which themselves are simplifications. You can easily get a voltage drop across battery terminals, you just have to put the battery in series with another battery. This is dangerous. You could also hook up an active current sink. Again, dangerous. There is nothing preventing the internal battery resistance from causing the terminals to go negative except for the simple fact that most equipment we connect to batteries will stop working before that point is reached (unless you hook batteries in series—which is why batteries in series must be close to identical, so they run out at the same time).
      - Unklejoe 10y ago
        I just want to point out that batteries are often connected in series in regular devices. Many devices where there are two AA batteries (TV remotes, etc...) usually have the batteries wired in series. They need to do it to get the voltage high enough for some of the components. Additionally, many batteries are actually made from multiple smaller batteries wired in series internally. For example, some 9V batteries are actually just 6 regular 1.5V batteries wired in series. Of course, in these configurations, they generally discharge at a similar rate.

johnchristopher 10y ago

What are the financial consequences for Samsung and its suppliers ?

JumpCrisscross 10y ago
Given the political leaders of Korea and financial owners of Samsung are the same: not much, likely.

pawadu 10y ago

This is so sad. I recently saw a Note 7 in action and after only 2 minutes I was ready to shell out $700 and buy my first ever Samsung phone. Anyway, maybe this gives other good Android manufacturers (specially HTC and Sony) a chance to make a comeback.

laurentdc 10y ago

I wonder why, I mean, it's a battery after all. They've pulled off probably a hundred other phone designs and they aren't new to the market. What's particularly wrong with the Note 7 that they can't fix in a PCB or battery redesign?

artofcode 10y ago
By now I would say the image of the Note 7 (and the replacements) being associated with exploding batteries. It might be best to ditch the Note 7 and move on to a newly named phone.
mirekrusin 10y ago
They are probably going to kill the name and wrap fixed internals in new box with new name.
- venomsnake 10y ago
  Samsung ISIS edition?
  - mirekrusin 10y ago
    Samsung Daesh is the new thing this week, no?

gjolund 10y ago

Hopefully now people will realize that every battery powered laptop and phone on an airplane is a potential bomb.

Shivetya 10y ago
It will be interesting if any major air carriers decide to ban the brand from flight. with regards to your comment the industry should strive to show otherwise and there should not be any reason to not be able to predict this type of failure occurring at the device level. there certainly have to be some telltale signs that are detectable
- Cthulhu_ 10y ago
  I haven't heard about that yet, but, there has already been an instance where a plane was evacuated over a Note 7 catching fire.
- zmk_ 10y ago
  On Lufthansa flights you are not allowed to have Note 7s powered on. They make a special announcement about it.
  - newscracker 10y ago
    It doesn't seem to matter that the phone is powered down, as shown by this incident on a South West airlines flight where the Note 7 caught fire after it was powered down. Here's an excerpt from an interview by The Verge on this incident [1]: "Green said that he had powered down the phone as requested by the flight crew and put it in his pocket when it began smoking." [1]: http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/5/13175000/samsung-galaxy-note-7-fire-replacement-plane-battery-southwest http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/5/13175000/samsung-galaxy-no...
- gjolund 10y ago
  Im not talking about defects, but malicious tampering. I may not be able to get a bomb on board, but I sure as shit can short circuit a laptop battery and start a fire.

throw2016 10y ago

Samsung has been dragging their feet on this. Their response has lacked clarity and urgency. Paradoxially this kind of tepid circumspect response designed to first protect the brand has a far greater chance of damaging the brand permanently than coming clean unequivocally and proactively taking full responsiblity. The second approach you take a loss but live to fight another day, the first the public begin to harbour doubts about your commitment to safety and your users and that can cast a long shadow on your future products.

simonh 10y ago
I don't think they were trying to protect the brand, they were trying to protect their bank balance by avoiding recalling, replacing and ultimately scrapping the product line.
- Cthulhu_ 10y ago
  But they already had recalled the model, the first version, which can be exchanged for what was supposed to be a 'safe' model. Didn't work out for them.
deong 10y ago
Honestly, I thought their initial response was fine. There were probably a few too many incidents before a recall was announced, but it happened pretty quickly, and you have to give them a bit of time to do their own internal "what the hell is going on" assessment. Fairly quickly though, they announced a global recall, communicated what to do to their customers, and said all the right things to make it right. My wife bought one the day after launch. Once the recall started, there was nothing tepid or ambiguous. She got multiple direct communications laying out the steps to take for the recall. The big problems are (a) they didn't actually seem to get it fixed, (b) they didn't actually seem to get it fixed, and (c) the appearance (and possible reality) that they cut corners initially to get to market before the iPhone.

elcapitan 10y ago

Are those accidents caused by faulty batteries, or by the way the electronics make use of them?

superdupermanhe 10y ago

good corporate espionage from xyz competitor

BinaryIdiot 10y ago

In my opinion, other than the whole catching-on-fire-thing, the Note 7 was one of the best, if the the best Android device out today. Least amount of bloatware on a Samsung yet, they unified the software for the S Pen, the S Pen is better this time around, and it just looks gorgeous. I'm not sure what the problem is. Maybe Samsung rushed it, maybe it's a defect in some supplier made component, etc I have no idea but it does seem rather unfortunate and kinda sad to see such a nice phone not only be effectively done but it likely caused a lot of brand damage to Samsung in general (lots of reports of airline employees saying Samsung Galaxy phones, not just notes, are not allowed which granted is probably a misunderstanding but the brand impact is there). My wife currently has a replaced Note 7 and she absolutely loves it and hates that she'll probably have to give it up.

Unklejoe 10y ago

What gets me is the fact that they did the recall and produced a new version of the phone which was supposed to fix the issue, yet now there are reports of the replacement units doing the same thing. Seems like they either jumped to conclusions and mis-identified the problem, or they attempted to fix the problem with a band-aid solution with the hopes of reducing the probability of failure just enough to make the issue "go away". On a more personal note: I hope this gives other Android phone manufacturers a chance to gain some market share. Primarily, I want HTC to do well. They seem to be one of the most friendly when it comes to unlocking the bootloader (you can do it via their website). I really wanted to get the Galaxy S7, but after finding out that the versions with the SnapDragon SoC will have locked bootloaders, I decided not to. In my experience, Samsung's version of Android has never been that great. Without the ability to flash custom ROMs and remove some of that useless crap, I just couldn't bring myself to make the purchase.

TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
> Seems like they either jumped to conclusions and mis-identified the problem, or they attempted to fix the problem with a band-aid solution with the hopes of reducing the probability of failure just enough to make the issue "go away". That seems very likely. It's very easy to screw up the fix for a serious issue when you're in a rush. I've deployed my fair share of broken bugfixes.
erikpukinskis 10y ago
Probably because the nominal situation isn't "no defects", it's that the defects are below a certain threshold. They can get a sample below a certain threshold but it's not a guarantee that the actual full scale production would be. It'd be smart to give the tolerances some extra headroom on the second go-around, but I would guess that in order to get additional certainty on their sample, they would need to run their testing program for longer while the inventory is piling up. And I have to imagine with a production the scale of the Galaxy there are immense pressures to get that inventory moving. But it sounds like they gambled and lost.