8 ms·

Booted out of Bootup Labs

345 points by livejamie 16y ago

chegra84 16y ago
I find the weird part about this is you are selling your domains. I vote no for this move. Find another way to make that cash but keep your domain and your co-founder. If these guys at bootlab accepted you, there is a high probability that someone else would too. [who knows post a donation page and see where it goes. I think most of us here knows what survival mode is like, so would be sympathetic to your cause]
cperciva 16y ago
When I saw this title, my immediate thought was "hmm, I wonder if this is about Bootup Labs?" I've met the people behind Bootup Labs, and I like them. They're smart. They're enthusiastic about what they're doing. But I was never really convinced that they were able to make things work financially. I've seen enough startups that I can usually tell when a startup is running on fumes and spending all their energy on trying to raise more funding... and that's the vibe I've been getting from Bootup Labs for a while. Not really a good vibe to have coming from a group with the raison d'etre of providing funding. On behalf of Canadians in general and Vancouverites especially: We're really sorry about this. Nobody should have to go through what happened to you. We hope you'll come back some day under better circumstances.
- fnid2 16y ago
  I don't think it is your responsibility to apologize for bootup labs or on behalf of all vancouverites or canadians for that matter. I've interacted with the bootup labs team on more than one occasion and have never gotten a good impression from them. They are the kind of middle men who take too much from entrepreneurs and give too little. I feel bad for anyone who is convinced to enter into their system, both entrepreneurs, and the investors who give them money. Furthermore, Canadians do not apologize for everything. I know plenty who never apologize for anything. Also, a little more ranting about Bootup labs, there are way too many programs like this that are actually credible. I encourage all who are thinking of applying to their program to strongly consider otherwise. If you can't get into another better incubation program, it means your idea needs more work. I haven't seen anything positive from bootup labs and I can't say anything positive about the leadership behind bootup labs -- this was true way before this very revealing incident. Any entrepreneur considering joining the bootup labs program is better served to keep their day jobs and bootstrap their company without bootup labs. Please, stay far far away.
  - cperciva 16y ago
    I don't think it is your responsibility to apologize for bootup labs or on behalf of all vancouverites or canadians for that matter. Most of us are really sorry about this. A few of us take ourselves far too seriously. Any entrepreneur considering joining the bootup labs program is better served to keep their day jobs and bootstrap their company without bootup labs. For what it's worth, I considered Bootup Labs and decided that I was better off continuing to bootstrap -- but I'm not sure that what was best for me is necessarily best for all startup founders.
  - Mocker 16y ago
    What are some of the better startup incubation programs?
- mikeyur 16y ago
  I second this, Vancouver is really sorry and we hope you will come back and visit.
  - danudey 16y ago
    Thirded. It's awful that these two had to go through this, but on top of the awful experience, it happened as a result of moving to what I believe is the most beautiful city in the world. Being so excited for something and having it turn into an unmitigated disaster is depressing. Believe me when I say the whole tech community here feels awful about this. Don't let it sour you on our city!
  - fnid2 16y ago
    Vancouver is not sorry. There are plenty in Vancouver who predicted something like this would happen as a result of doing business with Bootup Labs. If anything, Vancouver has benefited from this because it is now more likely that Bootup Labs will be booted out of Vancouver. Bootup labs has been hurting the startup community in Vancouver for quite some time and it will help the environment there if this kind of sour leadership is forced out of town.
    - mikeyur 16y ago
      For one, it was partially a joke. Canadians apologize too much and for anything. Let me be clear, I'm not sorry this happened to Bootup. I'm sorry because I don't want anyone to think bad of our city because of an event like this. Bootup can close down tomorrow for all I care. I take it personally when a fellow entrepreneur (and HN user) gets screwed over, and especially when it happened in my city.
  - apphacker 16y ago
    What I learned from this blog post is that I need to visit Vancouver someday.
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- pg 16y ago
  In case this makes anyone think cperciva is not very bright, I replaced the original HN title with the title of the blog post itself.
  - cperciva 16y ago
    Don't worry, Paul, I'm sure everybody here already knows that I'm not very bright.
  - livejamie 16y ago
    Thank you.
- huhtenberg 16y ago
  > On behalf of Canadians in general and Vancouverites especially: We're really sorry about this. Allow me to note something. As a Canadian and a Vancouverite. While I do not particularly like Bootup Labs for a variety of reasons, I cannot say that I believe either side of the story and that I can form an objective opinion. For this reason I find it strange that you take it on yourself to apologize on my behalf.
  - cperciva 16y ago
    As a Canadian, I'm sure you realize that we apologize for everything, whether it's our fault or not. :-) But aside from that -- even from what Bootup Labs is saying, this situation is very unfortunate for the status.ly founders and something I hope nobody else has to go through.
    - notauser 16y ago
      As a Canadian, I'm sure you realize that we apologize for everything, whether it's our fault or not. And this is a hang over from your British heritage. Sorry about that. :-)
      - deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
- adamtmca 16y ago
  My girlfriend's from the gulf islands in B.C. so of course I always hear how wonderful it is and how nice Van is. Needless to say I was especially excited when I read about Bootup Labs. Even after contacting them it never felt right and we passed. I really feel for these guy, that could have been us.
keltecp11 16y ago
Why this has not been bumped up more I have no idea... Fuck man... that is fucking horrible. When I first got into DreamIt Ventures, all of my attorneys and family and friends said the same thing... are you sure? What is the paperwork like? The Paperwork was 2 PAGES! I was in law school at the time, I was looking at paper work of contracts that were a minimum of 26 pages!!! And 2 get 2 pages?! Unreal... and quite scary. We took a gamble... we signed the documents. Left MORE questions thn answers... by far. Fortunately, my god, I never realized how lucky we were. I'll keep my eye out for something that will pay. Do you have any contracts from them? I'd like to see. Post them on DocStoc. I do not know Canadian Law, but I know someone who might. Not that I could represent... but I'm curious to see if you might have some legal action! Embarrassed or not - that is bull shit. -P
benologist 16y ago
Wow that story really sucks.
puredemo 16y ago
What a horror story. What sort of program offers $100k to that many groups and doesn't follow through? "Whoops, we were $500k short." That goes beyond just being embarrassing.
- cperciva 16y ago
  What sort of program offers $100k to that many groups and doesn't follow through? Not to be facetious, but: A program which doesn't have as much money as they're offering people. The founders of Bootup Labs put some of their own money in, but they're raising money (or trying, at least) from VCs for the rest. They're paying themselves [EDIT: or not -- see reply from dannyrobinson below] from the $50k/startup management fee, not just from expected future profits. Are there any other startup accelerators which do things this way? I'm not aware of any.
  - jey 16y ago
    > $50k/startup management fee What?!
    - cperciva 16y ago
      Bootup Labs is structured as an investment plus a services contract. They give you $50k in exchange for 5% equity, then you immediately pay the $50k back to them in exchange for the office space, accounting services, legal services, mentoring, et cetera. Then they give you a $100k line of credit which converts (at their option) at 1% equity per $10k. It's a very effective way of protecting themselves from downside risk -- if all the startups bomb, the startup founder have nothing and the investors have nothing, but Bootup Labs still has their $50k/startup -- which might be part of the reason why they've had trouble convincing VCs to invest. I think many VCs would be skeptical of a startup CEO who said "we have no revenue and a completely untested business model, but we're going to pay ourselves $100k salaries with your money".
      - gridspy 16y ago
        Incubators that ask you for money _and_ equity make me a little bit sick. Either sell me a service or give me cash for equity. Don't do both.
paulgb 16y ago
From @bootuplabs on twitter: > HI all: we're moving up the blog post we were going to put up tomorrow to this eve - please stand by
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- faramarz 16y ago
  All Canadian startup hopefuls are/will be watching for an official response closely.
lyime 16y ago
One would thing that it would be standard practice that they give you a term sheet on acceptance. As soon as you sign the term sheet, money should be transfered. At the end of the day they are investing in your company, and term sheets are typical. This is how YC works. Sorry to hear about your experience.
mikeyur 16y ago
Jamie, I have a friend at Digg who is trying to contact you. They're looking for designers, if you're interested in a job.
- livejamie 16y ago
  I responded to their DM, thank you very much!
elai 16y ago
Why did bootup labs offer funding that is almost 7 to 10 times the 'industry' standard? It's disappointing that an incubator close to home really wasn't.
- realitycheques 16y ago
  well this is most likely because they have no experience in how to finance or run a venture fund of any size.
stevederico 16y ago
everything happens for a reason, I am sure you will create something create after this.
- TotlolRon 16y ago
  Not really. Sometime in life shit just happens for no good reason.
  - techiferous 16y ago
    And when life gives you shit... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpuFeQZCvOI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpuFeQZCvOI
- natrius 16y ago
  Suggested reading: http://www.amazon.com/Candide-Optimism-Classics-Francois-Voltaire/dp/0140455108/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271302271&sr=1-8 http://www.amazon.com/Candide-Optimism-Classics-Francois-Vol...
- paul9290 16y ago
  Not sure why this was downvoted. It's a little negative, but I do agree from this experience and you blogging about Jamie something better will come along! Good luck and is the weather in Phoenix still "100 and above it's a scorcher out there" :) ? You emailed me this summer re: my start-up. Good luck!
  - livejamie 16y ago
    The alarm clock thing, right? :)
    - paul9290 16y ago
      yup :) (http://sleep.fm http://sleep.fm)
  - viraptor 16y ago
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
bandhunt 16y ago
That really sucks! But dude, why give up on the idea? you're selling the domain and moving on? Incubators aren't necessary.. keep plugging away and launch anyway.
- livejamie 16y ago
  Hey Brad, I'm just in survival mode at the moment, living on my parent's couch at the moment with negative money in my bank account. I need to sell some things to try to get back on my feet again - that's why I'm seeing if I can sell these domains.
  - djb_hackernews 16y ago
    That doesn't make sense. Did you just spend two months working on the startup full time? You should have made some headway. Put it on the back burner or something. I mean to sell the domains for $500? Is that all 2-3 months of 2 man full time work is worth?
    - techiferous 16y ago
      "Is that all 2-3 months of 2 man full time work is worth?" I don't find it too useful to think this way. In the end, our time ain't worth jack. Solving customers' problems is where value comes from. If 4-6 man-months was put toward something that didn't solve anyone's problem, then it's worth $0.
  - karjaluoto 16y ago
    With all due respect Jamie, if you're in it, you're in it. My suggestion (for what it's worth) is that you put this behind you and find a way to make it happen. If you choose not to, you probably weren't going to make a go of it anyway. You got a raw deal, and that's clear to anyone. Now get back to work on your startup. This can be a roadblock or a speedbump; you choose.
    - karjaluoto 16y ago
      I'm curious--why the downvote? Isn't this just the sort of test we've all faced at some point in our startup efforts?
DanBlake 16y ago
Danny, one of the bootuplabs founders just posted this comment on the post. ///////////// This is not how it went down Jamie. After everything that we did for you and Steven, I'm shocked at how you have twisted the truth for PR reasons. - you were in our office for 2 months, not 3. - you program is 5%-15% for $150k over 8 months - you received $6k over that 2 months - we received nothing in return. - we paid your legal fees. - we introduced you to many people who you can still call on today. We are not out of money, we just closed a round. It was a condition of their investment that we let you go. Yes, it wasn't an ideal situation, and we didn't plan on it working out this way. But in the end, I made sure that you got the better end the deal ///////////// Sad to see them trying to argue over facts when these guys moved across the country and gave up everything to be there, then they act like they should be happy to have even had the chance. Wow.
- livejamie 16y ago
  My response which I posted: Hey Danny. I apologize that you feel like I'm twisting the truth. It was the last week in January until the end of last Month. While we were there 3 months of the year, you are correct 2 months would be more accurate, I was just getting the $100k off of the Bootup website, I understood that we got $150k, but that $50k went back to Bootup, is that not what the original terms were? You did pay our rent and our legal fees to get incorporated. I mentioned the rent, but I didn't mention the legal fees. I apologize. I didn't suggest that Bootup was closing down or was out of money. I wouldn't suggest that I got the better end of the deal as it was extremely expensive to move to and live in Vancouver. I wish you all well.
  - awolf 16y ago
    >I didn't suggest that Bootup was closing down or was out of money. The title of this posting is "Moved to Canada to participate in a startup incubator that had no money"...
    - livejamie 16y ago
      http://i.imgur.com/cXxdv.png http://i.imgur.com/cXxdv.png
livejamie 16y ago
I shouldn't have said that Bootup Labs had "no money" - I should have put "no money for us." I'm not trying to suggest that Bootup Labs is bankrupt or anything, I apologize.
- cperciva 16y ago
  I shouldn't have said that Bootup Labs had "no money" - I should have put "no money for us." I think we all understood that, given that your post mentioned that 3 of the 7 companies in the cohort were not being cut loose.
- livejamie 16y ago
  Alright, sorry.. I'm used to reddit moreso than HN.
- qq66 16y ago
  That makes it so much worse. If they were bankrupt, they would have had no choice but to send you packing. To break their promise to you to raise additional capital is a super-dick move and I hope that future startup founders don't make the mistake you did. Thank you for warning the community.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
rdl 16y ago
How hard is it to set up a Vancouver startup independently, if you have 2-3 US citizens who want to relocate? Assume you have $100-200k of your own funding. Gaming the tax credits seems like it takes a bit of effort, but lowers the effective tax rate substantially below even Nevada.
- 9oliYQjP 16y ago
  Starting a company in Canada among 2 or 3 people is easy. I should know because I did it when I was a teenager. It cost me $15 for some incorporation templates, $150 for a name search report showing potentially similar company names to the one I wanted to start, and $350 or so in government fees. This got me a company incorporated provincially. You can do it federally too but it's a bit more complex. If you have as much money as you claim you could probably emigrate to Canada in a special business class meant specifically for people starting businesses here. Starting businesses is easy as pie. If you have enough money to sustain the business before it brings in revenue then I'm not sure what the attraction is to these sort of ventures. If your execution is good then VCs will hear you out regardless of whether you've been "accepted" into a program like this. They may facilitate introductions but there are also government funded programs here in Canada that do not charge money which will do the same. Tax rates for people smart enough to start businesses in Canada are fairly attractive. It is especially so when you factor in healthcare costs or lack-there-of. However one thing to bear in mind is that it is often a severe hassle an American company to exit an investment in a Canadian company. In some cases it would require 900 signatures of limited partners in the American company and for each to file Canadian income taxes. Google "Section 116 foreign investment". It is something the government here is tackling in a bid to spur VC investment in Canada. But there are still some gotchas (and benefits) to starting a company here.
  - realitycheques 16y ago
    So totally true. "Just do it" is the key. Hanging around the "clubhouse" for parties and beer is just not the point and clearly is not working...
  - rdl 16y ago
mikeyur 16y ago
Bootup Labs has posted their side of the story on their blog: http://blog.bootuplabs.com/2010/04/14/wertz-joins-board-first-funding-completed-portfolio-reduced/ http://blog.bootuplabs.com/2010/04/14/wertz-joins-board-firs...
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- keltecp11 16y ago
  "Bootup is back on solid ground and ready to continue it’s role as a leading North American Seed Accelerator." VERY bold statement.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - realitycheques 16y ago
    Solid ground? Give us a break... they're turning on the reality distortion field, again!
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
- nickmolnar2 16y ago
  Adding Boris Wertz was a great move, and not a moment too soon. He adds credibility, and capital, to Bootup at the time when they need it most. It's a good thing, too. While their misfortune has certainly hurt people, myself included, Bootup is a great addition to the Vancouver startup ecosystem. 3 new companies is far better than 0 in my books. They also throw fantastic events and mentor many more entrepreneurs than they fund. I was trying to put together a real-estate deal for a Bootup coworking space in December, but in January - when I assume the funding round fell apart - Boris (Mann) became quite scarce. I'm over it. They took on an uphill battle and are hustling to keep the business alive. I think they deserve credit for surviving when others might have folded. As a member of the Vancouver startup community, I'm happy to still have them around. Anyone who has met Boris or Danny can tell that they are genuine in their passion for entrepreneurship and wouldn't have done this if it wasn't strictly necessary. They also have built a kickass portfolio of companies in a short time.
dedward 16y ago
Can I just say that the fact that either party here is duking this out in a public forum is just..... unprofessional? Especially from the VC firm itself? I suppose I'm a newcomer to this "VC/incubator/startup" community - but in any other life situation, when I decide to pack up and move somewhere far away, I make sure I have stuff in writing, and cash in the bank, and all my i's dotted and t's crossed before I quit my old job and jump on a plane. I also make sure, as best I can, that expectations are the same on both sides. I don't see why this is any different whether it's VC capital for some wild idea or a serious business proposal or just a plain old job somewhere else... what ever happened to common sense?
- puredemo 16y ago
  Well, unfortunately I think Bootup Labs had to respond to the claim that they "had no money".
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    It seems that much was true though, at least it was at the time. When you commit to funding 7 start-ups you have to have the full amount for that sitting in the bank. If you have only enough to fund four then the correct claim would be 'not enough money to cover all investments', which is only a small step from 'no money' since it depends on which startup you're looking at whether or not they have money. If there had been only three start ups and 0 money then the situation as far as those three startups is concerned would be exactly the same. It's not for them to look in to the bank accounts of their investors, but if you're not getting what is promised then 'you have no money' turned out to be a pretty good guess at the state of affairs. "Not enough money" would have been more accurate though.
- cperciva 16y ago
  Can I just say that the fact that either party here is duking this out in a public forum is just..... unprofessional? Perhaps a bit unprofessional, but I'm personally glad it happens. The startup/VC world is all about reputation, and anything which moves the world from "talk to your friends at other startups and find out if they know anything about X" to "google for X and find out what people are saying about it" is a good thing for startups who are less than fully connected in the gossip network. Think of this as the natural continuation of what thefunded started. Of course, as a Vancouverite I'm sad that it's Bootup Labs which is getting a bad reputation like this. :-/
rdl 16y ago
http://blog.bootuplabs.com/2010/04/14/wertz-joins-board-first-funding-completed-portfolio-reduced http://blog.bootuplabs.com/2010/04/14/wertz-joins-board-firs... I'm not really sure how I feel about this. It seems like they behaved pretty reasonably for a regular company, but as a fiduciary, they probably should have held off and not funded anyone without funds in the bank, vs. relying on a mid-term capital call. (I wonder who bailed on the capital call and why) After this, I would probably be reluctant to move to Vancouver based on their line of credit promise unless I could see the funds in escrow; a LoC of $100k should mean $100k in an account I control, with equity going to them based on how much I withdraw. If they were Sequoia I'd be willing to accept a promise, but clearly how they have demonstrated they have pretty limited resources. They at least seem fairly transparent about everything, so it's not dishonesty, merely bad judgment.
- rdl 16y ago
  I'm also curious why 4/7 were cut -- was it that they were mediocre teams/products that Wertz didn't want to fund, or was it just that you ran out of money in the bridge period? It seems unlikely to me the latter, or you would have tried to structure some kind of bridge (or asked the teams to do this themselves by not drawing on the line of credit, which seems to be your only marginal cash expense per team). How else would you pick which companies to keep vs. eject? I'm not trying to be a dick, but when you burn people (even unintentionally or with the best of intentions), it makes it harder for everyone else to do deals.
jamesshamenski 16y ago
Boo the VC's in this one! The investors of BootupLabs did not have confidence in 57% of their latest pool of startups. i wonder why they invested at all if they dont fully back their judgement? Here's what probably happened, I bet the investors squeezed Boris and Danny with the alternative option being closing their doors early on all 7 companies. Sometimes VC's do evil things to extract more ownership in last minute negotiations (knowing very well that BuL was out of cash). I bet Boris and Danny would have wanted to follow through.
- realitycheques 16y ago
  Right! And where is the investment support from all the big name, successful mentors?? Guess they're either free-riders or store window dressing...
- libretard 16y ago
  This might be a valid assertion if there were any VCs investing in Bootup Labs. There evidently aren't.
  - jamesshamenski 16y ago
    Evidently, the VC's investing in BootupLabs are 'W media ventures' and 'growthworks'. http://blog.bootuplabs.com/2010/04/14/wertz-joins-board-first-funding-completed-portfolio-reduced/ http://blog.bootuplabs.com/2010/04/14/wertz-joins-board-firs...
    - realitycheques 16y ago
      growthworks has one of the lowest rates of return of venture funds,
- gyardley 16y ago
  I can't speak for every investor in this incubator but Boris Wertz of W Media Ventures has money in my own startup and I've always found him to be an upstanding, helpful guy - First Round Capital introduced him to me and I've always been grateful for that. I wouldn't particularly call Boris a VC, though - more of a large angel, investing the money he made from the startup he founded himself. It's a bad idea to slight individuals you don't know anything about just because you think they belong to a generic 'VC' category.
vancity 16y ago
More on Vancouver's Techvibes.com... http://www.techvibes.com/blog/bootup-labs-20-now-with-more-money-and-less-startups http://www.techvibes.com/blog/bootup-labs-20-now-with-more-m...
- apu 16y ago
  But now with Boris Wertz on board, new funding secured, and the spotlight of this story, there is no doubt that due diligence on all sides will improve and the next cohort of startups will be better than ever. Hmm, ok. Disclosure: Boris Wertz is an investor in Techvibes Media Inc. Surprise, surprise.
  - cperciva 16y ago
    Surprise, surprise. I doubt Boris Wertz pulled any strings to get the positive spin from Techvibes -- my impression is that Techvibes would find a way to give a positive spin to "meteor headed for Vancouver, is expected to destroy city".
    - apu 16y ago
      Sure, I didn't mean to imply any particular chain of causality -- just the fact that there is virtually no value in a positive article from Techvibes given their financial conflict-of-interest in this story.
      - realitycheques 16y ago
        A one-sided, unresearched, fluff article.
jbox 16y ago
Acquisition, investment or acceptance into an incubator are all great things but don't build your startup in such a way that success is dependant upon them. Ultimately, your success will depend on one thing - you. Build your business for profitably and don't count on money until it's safely cleared in your account.
- minalecs 16y ago
  i wish I could upvote this sentiment more. I've also been accepted into an incubator, but had I been declined, I still would of moved forward with release, and marketing plan. After being accepted, I've adjusted my schedule some, but still on track regardless. To me it seems that Jamie is giving up on something that if he truly believed in it, he should continue even now after finding a real job and getting back on his feet. For this reason, it makes me feel that maybe Bootup made the right decision. Regardless its a terrible situation for everyone involved.
  - trevelyan 16y ago
    Sad, but I agree. Be curious to hear why the investors wanted to invest In the first place if the idea isn't good enough to keep the founders committed when they hit this sort of minor setback. And weren't they working on the business for two-plus months in Vancouver? No demo? No prototype? No sense of next steps?
    - realitycheques 16y ago
      likely little meaningful assistance when the fund manager is in panic mode scrambling to raise money...
vancouver 16y ago
The fact that the Managing Director of Bootup would confront allegations in a public forum does not bode well for his organization. I would hope day to day business decisions at Bootup are not done in the same manner. It is ,at best, completely unprofessional.
- ericd 16y ago
  Why do you say that? It might open them up to some sort of liability (I don't know either way), but as long as they watch their tongue, I think it reflects well on the company to be so transparent.
  - vancouver 16y ago
    I couldn't disagree with you more. Discussions of this sort should be done at the very least on the phone. The airing of dirty laundry, if that may be the case, is best not done on a message board. Comments are taken out of context, misquoted etc ... It is at best ill advised. While transparency is paramount that is not what this is --- banter about such matters on an open forum is to say the least petty and completely unprofessional.
jfarmer 16y ago
It sounds like Bootup Labs wasn't able to draw down on some of their LPs. So, it's not nefarious, but it would make me think twice before accepting (the promise of) money from Bootup Labs. It ain't real 'till the money's in the bank.
- realitycheques 16y ago
  There are no lPs. Bootup is/was a VCC.
dannyr 16y ago
From http://blog.bootuplabs.com/2010/04/14/wertz-joins-board-first-funding-completed-portfolio-reduced/ http://blog.bootuplabs.com/2010/04/14/wertz-joins-board-firs... "We supplied a great deal of support and value to the 7 companies over the first 2 months of our 2010 cohort, and we received nothing in return for the 4 companies that were cut" It seems like they are implying that the 4 companies somehow owe them something.
- fnid2 16y ago
  The more of these kinds of comments I read, the more I feel sick. The first time I met one of the founders of Bootup Labs, this was when I was fairly new to Vancouver, I got a deep upsetting feeling in my stomach. I felt the same kind of energy from others involved in meetups they put together. They used to hang around workspace as well. Someone introduced me to a bootup labs person and within just a few sentences I knew these characters were to be avoided. It is difficult for me to rationalize these feelings in ways that can help stop the bad future I see that makes me have these feelings. I don't want to share the feelings, because they are just feelings. I try to only share opinions I can rationalize, because I don't want to be wrong about a negative feeling if the person is actually good and I'm wrong in my assessment. It's like when I interacted with them, I saw how the compounding negativity of their influence was going to affect the startup community in Vancouver. My feeling made me want to stay far, far away from anyone involved in bootup labs or involved with them or their "groups". I want a good group to be seen as the leader in Vancouver, but it's almost like the stage has been set there and it was designed by bootup labs. I don't know where the impressions like these come from. I don't know why I have them or how exactly I knew bootup labs was going to turn out badly. In Texas, there is a saying, "All hat and no cattle." I don't know if there is a similar expression in BC or not, but it's like I can tell that what they were saying was intended to "sell" those who simply didn't know enough to steer clear of them. The bootup labs people are great at sales and giving the impression of power, certainty, and success -- but I never saw any of it. I want to help people steer clear of individuals like this, but people who say negative stuff about others are often themselves looked down upon. Moms say, "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all." Well, sometimes, keeping your mouth shut can itself have negative repercussions. As someone who is still struggling with how to properly behave in social situations, how am I to react when I am confronted by a situation like this?
livejamie 16y ago
This has been written about on RWW now: How to Burn Bridges with Bootup Labs and Other Investors http://www.readwriteweb.com/start/2010/04/how-to-burn-bridges.php http://www.readwriteweb.com/start/2010/04/how-to-burn-bridge...
- noonespecial 16y ago
  With a heavy hitting roster like this, it's hard to believe that a startup might bite the hand that feeds it (or at least used to feed it). Sounds more like the hand that called the dog over with promises of bacon that wasn't there...
- apu 16y ago
  This is one of the most one-sided articles I've seen on RWW. Of all the comments here, they choose this one? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1266864 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1266864 And they mentioned Robinson's "This is not how it went down" comment without the main substance of his post (which consisted only of small quibbles) -- or the responses to it. And does the fact that there was a "a heavy hitting roster" backing Bootup make what was done any more excusable?
  - realitycheques 16y ago
    Makes it worse! Think about it... would you let your name be used this way, and/or associate with a company that you wouldn't put your own money in when it was badly needed?
- philk 16y ago
  How to Burn Bridges with Bootup Labs and Other Investors They're only investors if they actually invest money.
- ErrantX 16y ago
  That, uh, reads a lot like Dana saying: "haha nub, you won't ever get investors now will you!" Not exactly solid reporting :(
paniarose 16y ago
I don't think so http://www.squidoo.com/womensera http://www.squidoo.com/womensera
djb_hackernews 16y ago
Was it ever mentioned that this could be an outcome of coming to Vancouver? Either side hasn't said.

345 points by livejamie 16y ago

I find the weird part about this is you are selling your domains. I vote no for this move. Find another way to make that cash but keep your domain and your co-founder. If these guys at bootlab accepted you, there is a high probability that someone else would too. [who knows post a donation page and see where it goes. I think most of us here knows what survival mode is like, so would be sympathetic to your cause]

cperciva 16y ago

When I saw this title, my immediate thought was "hmm, I wonder if this is about Bootup Labs?" I've met the people behind Bootup Labs, and I like them. They're smart. They're enthusiastic about what they're doing. But I was never really convinced that they were able to make things work financially. I've seen enough startups that I can usually tell when a startup is running on fumes and spending all their energy on trying to raise more funding... and that's the vibe I've been getting from Bootup Labs for a while. Not really a good vibe to have coming from a group with the raison d'etre of providing funding. On behalf of Canadians in general and Vancouverites especially: We're really sorry about this. Nobody should have to go through what happened to you. We hope you'll come back some day under better circumstances.

fnid2 16y ago
I don't think it is your responsibility to apologize for bootup labs or on behalf of all vancouverites or canadians for that matter. I've interacted with the bootup labs team on more than one occasion and have never gotten a good impression from them. They are the kind of middle men who take too much from entrepreneurs and give too little. I feel bad for anyone who is convinced to enter into their system, both entrepreneurs, and the investors who give them money. Furthermore, Canadians do not apologize for everything. I know plenty who never apologize for anything. Also, a little more ranting about Bootup labs, there are way too many programs like this that are actually credible. I encourage all who are thinking of applying to their program to strongly consider otherwise. If you can't get into another better incubation program, it means your idea needs more work. I haven't seen anything positive from bootup labs and I can't say anything positive about the leadership behind bootup labs -- this was true way before this very revealing incident. Any entrepreneur considering joining the bootup labs program is better served to keep their day jobs and bootstrap their company without bootup labs. Please, stay far far away.
- cperciva 16y ago
  I don't think it is your responsibility to apologize for bootup labs or on behalf of all vancouverites or canadians for that matter. Most of us are really sorry about this. A few of us take ourselves far too seriously. Any entrepreneur considering joining the bootup labs program is better served to keep their day jobs and bootstrap their company without bootup labs. For what it's worth, I considered Bootup Labs and decided that I was better off continuing to bootstrap -- but I'm not sure that what was best for me is necessarily best for all startup founders.
- Mocker 16y ago
  What are some of the better startup incubation programs?
mikeyur 16y ago
I second this, Vancouver is really sorry and we hope you will come back and visit.
- danudey 16y ago
  Thirded. It's awful that these two had to go through this, but on top of the awful experience, it happened as a result of moving to what I believe is the most beautiful city in the world. Being so excited for something and having it turn into an unmitigated disaster is depressing. Believe me when I say the whole tech community here feels awful about this. Don't let it sour you on our city!
- fnid2 16y ago
  Vancouver is not sorry. There are plenty in Vancouver who predicted something like this would happen as a result of doing business with Bootup Labs. If anything, Vancouver has benefited from this because it is now more likely that Bootup Labs will be booted out of Vancouver. Bootup labs has been hurting the startup community in Vancouver for quite some time and it will help the environment there if this kind of sour leadership is forced out of town.
  - mikeyur 16y ago
    For one, it was partially a joke. Canadians apologize too much and for anything. Let me be clear, I'm not sorry this happened to Bootup. I'm sorry because I don't want anyone to think bad of our city because of an event like this. Bootup can close down tomorrow for all I care. I take it personally when a fellow entrepreneur (and HN user) gets screwed over, and especially when it happened in my city.
- apphacker 16y ago
  What I learned from this blog post is that I need to visit Vancouver someday.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
pg 16y ago
In case this makes anyone think cperciva is not very bright, I replaced the original HN title with the title of the blog post itself.
- cperciva 16y ago
  Don't worry, Paul, I'm sure everybody here already knows that I'm not very bright.
- livejamie 16y ago
  Thank you.
huhtenberg 16y ago
> On behalf of Canadians in general and Vancouverites especially: We're really sorry about this. Allow me to note something. As a Canadian and a Vancouverite. While I do not particularly like Bootup Labs for a variety of reasons, I cannot say that I believe either side of the story and that I can form an objective opinion. For this reason I find it strange that you take it on yourself to apologize on my behalf.
- cperciva 16y ago
  As a Canadian, I'm sure you realize that we apologize for everything, whether it's our fault or not. :-) But aside from that -- even from what Bootup Labs is saying, this situation is very unfortunate for the status.ly founders and something I hope nobody else has to go through.
  - notauser 16y ago
    As a Canadian, I'm sure you realize that we apologize for everything, whether it's our fault or not. And this is a hang over from your British heritage. Sorry about that. :-)
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
adamtmca 16y ago
My girlfriend's from the gulf islands in B.C. so of course I always hear how wonderful it is and how nice Van is. Needless to say I was especially excited when I read about Bootup Labs. Even after contacting them it never felt right and we passed. I really feel for these guy, that could have been us.

keltecp11 16y ago

Why this has not been bumped up more I have no idea... Fuck man... that is fucking horrible. When I first got into DreamIt Ventures, all of my attorneys and family and friends said the same thing... are you sure? What is the paperwork like? The Paperwork was 2 PAGES! I was in law school at the time, I was looking at paper work of contracts that were a minimum of 26 pages!!! And 2 get 2 pages?! Unreal... and quite scary. We took a gamble... we signed the documents. Left MORE questions thn answers... by far. Fortunately, my god, I never realized how lucky we were. I'll keep my eye out for something that will pay. Do you have any contracts from them? I'd like to see. Post them on DocStoc. I do not know Canadian Law, but I know someone who might. Not that I could represent... but I'm curious to see if you might have some legal action! Embarrassed or not - that is bull shit. -P

benologist 16y ago

Wow that story really sucks.

puredemo 16y ago

What a horror story. What sort of program offers $100k to that many groups and doesn't follow through? "Whoops, we were $500k short." That goes beyond just being embarrassing.

cperciva 16y ago
What sort of program offers $100k to that many groups and doesn't follow through? Not to be facetious, but: A program which doesn't have as much money as they're offering people. The founders of Bootup Labs put some of their own money in, but they're raising money (or trying, at least) from VCs for the rest. They're paying themselves [EDIT: or not -- see reply from dannyrobinson below] from the $50k/startup management fee, not just from expected future profits. Are there any other startup accelerators which do things this way? I'm not aware of any.
- jey 16y ago
  > $50k/startup management fee What?!
  - cperciva 16y ago
    Bootup Labs is structured as an investment plus a services contract. They give you $50k in exchange for 5% equity, then you immediately pay the $50k back to them in exchange for the office space, accounting services, legal services, mentoring, et cetera. Then they give you a $100k line of credit which converts (at their option) at 1% equity per $10k. It's a very effective way of protecting themselves from downside risk -- if all the startups bomb, the startup founder have nothing and the investors have nothing, but Bootup Labs still has their $50k/startup -- which might be part of the reason why they've had trouble convincing VCs to invest. I think many VCs would be skeptical of a startup CEO who said "we have no revenue and a completely untested business model, but we're going to pay ourselves $100k salaries with your money".
    - gridspy 16y ago
      Incubators that ask you for money _and_ equity make me a little bit sick. Either sell me a service or give me cash for equity. Don't do both.

paulgb 16y ago

From @bootuplabs on twitter: > HI all: we're moving up the blog post we were going to put up tomorrow to this eve - please stand by

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
faramarz 16y ago
All Canadian startup hopefuls are/will be watching for an official response closely.

lyime 16y ago

One would thing that it would be standard practice that they give you a term sheet on acceptance. As soon as you sign the term sheet, money should be transfered. At the end of the day they are investing in your company, and term sheets are typical. This is how YC works. Sorry to hear about your experience.

mikeyur 16y ago

Jamie, I have a friend at Digg who is trying to contact you. They're looking for designers, if you're interested in a job.

livejamie 16y ago
I responded to their DM, thank you very much!

elai 16y ago

Why did bootup labs offer funding that is almost 7 to 10 times the 'industry' standard? It's disappointing that an incubator close to home really wasn't.

realitycheques 16y ago
well this is most likely because they have no experience in how to finance or run a venture fund of any size.

stevederico 16y ago

everything happens for a reason, I am sure you will create something create after this.

TotlolRon 16y ago
Not really. Sometime in life shit just happens for no good reason.
- techiferous 16y ago
  And when life gives you shit... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpuFeQZCvOI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpuFeQZCvOI
natrius 16y ago
Suggested reading: http://www.amazon.com/Candide-Optimism-Classics-Francois-Voltaire/dp/0140455108/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271302271&sr=1-8 http://www.amazon.com/Candide-Optimism-Classics-Francois-Vol...
paul9290 16y ago
Not sure why this was downvoted. It's a little negative, but I do agree from this experience and you blogging about Jamie something better will come along! Good luck and is the weather in Phoenix still "100 and above it's a scorcher out there" :) ? You emailed me this summer re: my start-up. Good luck!
- livejamie 16y ago
  The alarm clock thing, right? :)
  - paul9290 16y ago
    yup :) (http://sleep.fm http://sleep.fm)
- viraptor 16y ago

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

bandhunt 16y ago

That really sucks! But dude, why give up on the idea? you're selling the domain and moving on? Incubators aren't necessary.. keep plugging away and launch anyway.

livejamie 16y ago
Hey Brad, I'm just in survival mode at the moment, living on my parent's couch at the moment with negative money in my bank account. I need to sell some things to try to get back on my feet again - that's why I'm seeing if I can sell these domains.
- djb_hackernews 16y ago
  That doesn't make sense. Did you just spend two months working on the startup full time? You should have made some headway. Put it on the back burner or something. I mean to sell the domains for $500? Is that all 2-3 months of 2 man full time work is worth?
  - techiferous 16y ago
    "Is that all 2-3 months of 2 man full time work is worth?" I don't find it too useful to think this way. In the end, our time ain't worth jack. Solving customers' problems is where value comes from. If 4-6 man-months was put toward something that didn't solve anyone's problem, then it's worth $0.
- karjaluoto 16y ago
  With all due respect Jamie, if you're in it, you're in it. My suggestion (for what it's worth) is that you put this behind you and find a way to make it happen. If you choose not to, you probably weren't going to make a go of it anyway. You got a raw deal, and that's clear to anyone. Now get back to work on your startup. This can be a roadblock or a speedbump; you choose.
  - karjaluoto 16y ago
    I'm curious--why the downvote? Isn't this just the sort of test we've all faced at some point in our startup efforts?

DanBlake 16y ago

Danny, one of the bootuplabs founders just posted this comment on the post. ///////////// This is not how it went down Jamie. After everything that we did for you and Steven, I'm shocked at how you have twisted the truth for PR reasons. - you were in our office for 2 months, not 3. - you program is 5%-15% for $150k over 8 months - you received $6k over that 2 months - we received nothing in return. - we paid your legal fees. - we introduced you to many people who you can still call on today. We are not out of money, we just closed a round. It was a condition of their investment that we let you go. Yes, it wasn't an ideal situation, and we didn't plan on it working out this way. But in the end, I made sure that you got the better end the deal ///////////// Sad to see them trying to argue over facts when these guys moved across the country and gave up everything to be there, then they act like they should be happy to have even had the chance. Wow.

livejamie 16y ago
My response which I posted: Hey Danny. I apologize that you feel like I'm twisting the truth. It was the last week in January until the end of last Month. While we were there 3 months of the year, you are correct 2 months would be more accurate, I was just getting the $100k off of the Bootup website, I understood that we got $150k, but that $50k went back to Bootup, is that not what the original terms were? You did pay our rent and our legal fees to get incorporated. I mentioned the rent, but I didn't mention the legal fees. I apologize. I didn't suggest that Bootup was closing down or was out of money. I wouldn't suggest that I got the better end of the deal as it was extremely expensive to move to and live in Vancouver. I wish you all well.
- awolf 16y ago
  >I didn't suggest that Bootup was closing down or was out of money. The title of this posting is "Moved to Canada to participate in a startup incubator that had no money"...
  - livejamie 16y ago
    http://i.imgur.com/cXxdv.png http://i.imgur.com/cXxdv.png

livejamie 16y ago

I shouldn't have said that Bootup Labs had "no money" - I should have put "no money for us." I'm not trying to suggest that Bootup Labs is bankrupt or anything, I apologize.

cperciva 16y ago
I shouldn't have said that Bootup Labs had "no money" - I should have put "no money for us." I think we all understood that, given that your post mentioned that 3 of the 7 companies in the cohort were not being cut loose.
livejamie 16y ago
Alright, sorry.. I'm used to reddit moreso than HN.
qq66 16y ago
That makes it so much worse. If they were bankrupt, they would have had no choice but to send you packing. To break their promise to you to raise additional capital is a super-dick move and I hope that future startup founders don't make the mistake you did. Thank you for warning the community.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

rdl 16y ago

How hard is it to set up a Vancouver startup independently, if you have 2-3 US citizens who want to relocate? Assume you have $100-200k of your own funding. Gaming the tax credits seems like it takes a bit of effort, but lowers the effective tax rate substantially below even Nevada.

9oliYQjP 16y ago
Starting a company in Canada among 2 or 3 people is easy. I should know because I did it when I was a teenager. It cost me $15 for some incorporation templates, $150 for a name search report showing potentially similar company names to the one I wanted to start, and $350 or so in government fees. This got me a company incorporated provincially. You can do it federally too but it's a bit more complex. If you have as much money as you claim you could probably emigrate to Canada in a special business class meant specifically for people starting businesses here. Starting businesses is easy as pie. If you have enough money to sustain the business before it brings in revenue then I'm not sure what the attraction is to these sort of ventures. If your execution is good then VCs will hear you out regardless of whether you've been "accepted" into a program like this. They may facilitate introductions but there are also government funded programs here in Canada that do not charge money which will do the same. Tax rates for people smart enough to start businesses in Canada are fairly attractive. It is especially so when you factor in healthcare costs or lack-there-of. However one thing to bear in mind is that it is often a severe hassle an American company to exit an investment in a Canadian company. In some cases it would require 900 signatures of limited partners in the American company and for each to file Canadian income taxes. Google "Section 116 foreign investment". It is something the government here is tackling in a bid to spur VC investment in Canada. But there are still some gotchas (and benefits) to starting a company here.
- realitycheques 16y ago
  So totally true. "Just do it" is the key. Hanging around the "clubhouse" for parties and beer is just not the point and clearly is not working...
- rdl 16y ago

mikeyur 16y ago

Bootup Labs has posted their side of the story on their blog: http://blog.bootuplabs.com/2010/04/14/wertz-joins-board-first-funding-completed-portfolio-reduced/ http://blog.bootuplabs.com/2010/04/14/wertz-joins-board-firs...

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
keltecp11 16y ago
"Bootup is back on solid ground and ready to continue it’s role as a leading North American Seed Accelerator." VERY bold statement.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- realitycheques 16y ago
  Solid ground? Give us a break... they're turning on the reality distortion field, again!
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
nickmolnar2 16y ago
Adding Boris Wertz was a great move, and not a moment too soon. He adds credibility, and capital, to Bootup at the time when they need it most. It's a good thing, too. While their misfortune has certainly hurt people, myself included, Bootup is a great addition to the Vancouver startup ecosystem. 3 new companies is far better than 0 in my books. They also throw fantastic events and mentor many more entrepreneurs than they fund. I was trying to put together a real-estate deal for a Bootup coworking space in December, but in January - when I assume the funding round fell apart - Boris (Mann) became quite scarce. I'm over it. They took on an uphill battle and are hustling to keep the business alive. I think they deserve credit for surviving when others might have folded. As a member of the Vancouver startup community, I'm happy to still have them around. Anyone who has met Boris or Danny can tell that they are genuine in their passion for entrepreneurship and wouldn't have done this if it wasn't strictly necessary. They also have built a kickass portfolio of companies in a short time.

dedward 16y ago

Can I just say that the fact that either party here is duking this out in a public forum is just..... unprofessional? Especially from the VC firm itself? I suppose I'm a newcomer to this "VC/incubator/startup" community - but in any other life situation, when I decide to pack up and move somewhere far away, I make sure I have stuff in writing, and cash in the bank, and all my i's dotted and t's crossed before I quit my old job and jump on a plane. I also make sure, as best I can, that expectations are the same on both sides. I don't see why this is any different whether it's VC capital for some wild idea or a serious business proposal or just a plain old job somewhere else... what ever happened to common sense?

puredemo 16y ago
Well, unfortunately I think Bootup Labs had to respond to the claim that they "had no money".
- jacquesm 16y ago
  It seems that much was true though, at least it was at the time. When you commit to funding 7 start-ups you have to have the full amount for that sitting in the bank. If you have only enough to fund four then the correct claim would be 'not enough money to cover all investments', which is only a small step from 'no money' since it depends on which startup you're looking at whether or not they have money. If there had been only three start ups and 0 money then the situation as far as those three startups is concerned would be exactly the same. It's not for them to look in to the bank accounts of their investors, but if you're not getting what is promised then 'you have no money' turned out to be a pretty good guess at the state of affairs. "Not enough money" would have been more accurate though.
cperciva 16y ago
Can I just say that the fact that either party here is duking this out in a public forum is just..... unprofessional? Perhaps a bit unprofessional, but I'm personally glad it happens. The startup/VC world is all about reputation, and anything which moves the world from "talk to your friends at other startups and find out if they know anything about X" to "google for X and find out what people are saying about it" is a good thing for startups who are less than fully connected in the gossip network. Think of this as the natural continuation of what thefunded started. Of course, as a Vancouverite I'm sad that it's Bootup Labs which is getting a bad reputation like this. :-/

rdl 16y ago

http://blog.bootuplabs.com/2010/04/14/wertz-joins-board-first-funding-completed-portfolio-reduced http://blog.bootuplabs.com/2010/04/14/wertz-joins-board-firs... I'm not really sure how I feel about this. It seems like they behaved pretty reasonably for a regular company, but as a fiduciary, they probably should have held off and not funded anyone without funds in the bank, vs. relying on a mid-term capital call. (I wonder who bailed on the capital call and why) After this, I would probably be reluctant to move to Vancouver based on their line of credit promise unless I could see the funds in escrow; a LoC of $100k should mean $100k in an account I control, with equity going to them based on how much I withdraw. If they were Sequoia I'd be willing to accept a promise, but clearly how they have demonstrated they have pretty limited resources. They at least seem fairly transparent about everything, so it's not dishonesty, merely bad judgment.

rdl 16y ago
I'm also curious why 4/7 were cut -- was it that they were mediocre teams/products that Wertz didn't want to fund, or was it just that you ran out of money in the bridge period? It seems unlikely to me the latter, or you would have tried to structure some kind of bridge (or asked the teams to do this themselves by not drawing on the line of credit, which seems to be your only marginal cash expense per team). How else would you pick which companies to keep vs. eject? I'm not trying to be a dick, but when you burn people (even unintentionally or with the best of intentions), it makes it harder for everyone else to do deals.

jamesshamenski 16y ago

Boo the VC's in this one! The investors of BootupLabs did not have confidence in 57% of their latest pool of startups. i wonder why they invested at all if they dont fully back their judgement? Here's what probably happened, I bet the investors squeezed Boris and Danny with the alternative option being closing their doors early on all 7 companies. Sometimes VC's do evil things to extract more ownership in last minute negotiations (knowing very well that BuL was out of cash). I bet Boris and Danny would have wanted to follow through.

realitycheques 16y ago
Right! And where is the investment support from all the big name, successful mentors?? Guess they're either free-riders or store window dressing...
libretard 16y ago
This might be a valid assertion if there were any VCs investing in Bootup Labs. There evidently aren't.
- jamesshamenski 16y ago
  Evidently, the VC's investing in BootupLabs are 'W media ventures' and 'growthworks'. http://blog.bootuplabs.com/2010/04/14/wertz-joins-board-first-funding-completed-portfolio-reduced/ http://blog.bootuplabs.com/2010/04/14/wertz-joins-board-firs...
  - realitycheques 16y ago
    growthworks has one of the lowest rates of return of venture funds,
gyardley 16y ago
I can't speak for every investor in this incubator but Boris Wertz of W Media Ventures has money in my own startup and I've always found him to be an upstanding, helpful guy - First Round Capital introduced him to me and I've always been grateful for that. I wouldn't particularly call Boris a VC, though - more of a large angel, investing the money he made from the startup he founded himself. It's a bad idea to slight individuals you don't know anything about just because you think they belong to a generic 'VC' category.

vancity 16y ago

More on Vancouver's Techvibes.com... http://www.techvibes.com/blog/bootup-labs-20-now-with-more-money-and-less-startups http://www.techvibes.com/blog/bootup-labs-20-now-with-more-m...

apu 16y ago
But now with Boris Wertz on board, new funding secured, and the spotlight of this story, there is no doubt that due diligence on all sides will improve and the next cohort of startups will be better than ever. Hmm, ok. Disclosure: Boris Wertz is an investor in Techvibes Media Inc. Surprise, surprise.
- cperciva 16y ago
  Surprise, surprise. I doubt Boris Wertz pulled any strings to get the positive spin from Techvibes -- my impression is that Techvibes would find a way to give a positive spin to "meteor headed for Vancouver, is expected to destroy city".
  - apu 16y ago
    Sure, I didn't mean to imply any particular chain of causality -- just the fact that there is virtually no value in a positive article from Techvibes given their financial conflict-of-interest in this story.
    - realitycheques 16y ago
      A one-sided, unresearched, fluff article.

jbox 16y ago

Acquisition, investment or acceptance into an incubator are all great things but don't build your startup in such a way that success is dependant upon them. Ultimately, your success will depend on one thing - you. Build your business for profitably and don't count on money until it's safely cleared in your account.

minalecs 16y ago
i wish I could upvote this sentiment more. I've also been accepted into an incubator, but had I been declined, I still would of moved forward with release, and marketing plan. After being accepted, I've adjusted my schedule some, but still on track regardless. To me it seems that Jamie is giving up on something that if he truly believed in it, he should continue even now after finding a real job and getting back on his feet. For this reason, it makes me feel that maybe Bootup made the right decision. Regardless its a terrible situation for everyone involved.
- trevelyan 16y ago
  Sad, but I agree. Be curious to hear why the investors wanted to invest In the first place if the idea isn't good enough to keep the founders committed when they hit this sort of minor setback. And weren't they working on the business for two-plus months in Vancouver? No demo? No prototype? No sense of next steps?
  - realitycheques 16y ago
    likely little meaningful assistance when the fund manager is in panic mode scrambling to raise money...

vancouver 16y ago

The fact that the Managing Director of Bootup would confront allegations in a public forum does not bode well for his organization. I would hope day to day business decisions at Bootup are not done in the same manner. It is ,at best, completely unprofessional.

ericd 16y ago
Why do you say that? It might open them up to some sort of liability (I don't know either way), but as long as they watch their tongue, I think it reflects well on the company to be so transparent.
- vancouver 16y ago
  I couldn't disagree with you more. Discussions of this sort should be done at the very least on the phone. The airing of dirty laundry, if that may be the case, is best not done on a message board. Comments are taken out of context, misquoted etc ... It is at best ill advised. While transparency is paramount that is not what this is --- banter about such matters on an open forum is to say the least petty and completely unprofessional.

jfarmer 16y ago

It sounds like Bootup Labs wasn't able to draw down on some of their LPs. So, it's not nefarious, but it would make me think twice before accepting (the promise of) money from Bootup Labs. It ain't real 'till the money's in the bank.

realitycheques 16y ago
There are no lPs. Bootup is/was a VCC.

dannyr 16y ago

From http://blog.bootuplabs.com/2010/04/14/wertz-joins-board-first-funding-completed-portfolio-reduced/ http://blog.bootuplabs.com/2010/04/14/wertz-joins-board-firs... "We supplied a great deal of support and value to the 7 companies over the first 2 months of our 2010 cohort, and we received nothing in return for the 4 companies that were cut" It seems like they are implying that the 4 companies somehow owe them something.

fnid2 16y ago
The more of these kinds of comments I read, the more I feel sick. The first time I met one of the founders of Bootup Labs, this was when I was fairly new to Vancouver, I got a deep upsetting feeling in my stomach. I felt the same kind of energy from others involved in meetups they put together. They used to hang around workspace as well. Someone introduced me to a bootup labs person and within just a few sentences I knew these characters were to be avoided. It is difficult for me to rationalize these feelings in ways that can help stop the bad future I see that makes me have these feelings. I don't want to share the feelings, because they are just feelings. I try to only share opinions I can rationalize, because I don't want to be wrong about a negative feeling if the person is actually good and I'm wrong in my assessment. It's like when I interacted with them, I saw how the compounding negativity of their influence was going to affect the startup community in Vancouver. My feeling made me want to stay far, far away from anyone involved in bootup labs or involved with them or their "groups". I want a good group to be seen as the leader in Vancouver, but it's almost like the stage has been set there and it was designed by bootup labs. I don't know where the impressions like these come from. I don't know why I have them or how exactly I knew bootup labs was going to turn out badly. In Texas, there is a saying, "All hat and no cattle." I don't know if there is a similar expression in BC or not, but it's like I can tell that what they were saying was intended to "sell" those who simply didn't know enough to steer clear of them. The bootup labs people are great at sales and giving the impression of power, certainty, and success -- but I never saw any of it. I want to help people steer clear of individuals like this, but people who say negative stuff about others are often themselves looked down upon. Moms say, "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all." Well, sometimes, keeping your mouth shut can itself have negative repercussions. As someone who is still struggling with how to properly behave in social situations, how am I to react when I am confronted by a situation like this?

livejamie 16y ago

This has been written about on RWW now: How to Burn Bridges with Bootup Labs and Other Investors http://www.readwriteweb.com/start/2010/04/how-to-burn-bridges.php http://www.readwriteweb.com/start/2010/04/how-to-burn-bridge...

noonespecial 16y ago
With a heavy hitting roster like this, it's hard to believe that a startup might bite the hand that feeds it (or at least used to feed it). Sounds more like the hand that called the dog over with promises of bacon that wasn't there...
apu 16y ago
This is one of the most one-sided articles I've seen on RWW. Of all the comments here, they choose this one? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1266864 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1266864 And they mentioned Robinson's "This is not how it went down" comment without the main substance of his post (which consisted only of small quibbles) -- or the responses to it. And does the fact that there was a "a heavy hitting roster" backing Bootup make what was done any more excusable?
- realitycheques 16y ago
  Makes it worse! Think about it... would you let your name be used this way, and/or associate with a company that you wouldn't put your own money in when it was badly needed?
philk 16y ago
How to Burn Bridges with Bootup Labs and Other Investors They're only investors if they actually invest money.
ErrantX 16y ago
That, uh, reads a lot like Dana saying: "haha nub, you won't ever get investors now will you!" Not exactly solid reporting :(

paniarose 16y ago

I don't think so http://www.squidoo.com/womensera http://www.squidoo.com/womensera

djb_hackernews 16y ago

Was it ever mentioned that this could be an outcome of coming to Vancouver? Either side hasn't said.