12 ms·
Ask HN: Team for Hire?
Is there anyone who wants to hire a whole team?
Due to a corporate decision, the OpenTable branch office in Chattanooga, TN is being closed down. Many of us are unwilling or unable due to family and homes to relocate to San Fransisco. (No, not everyone wants to live in SF, and we have faster internet here.) So we're looking for an "acquihire" without a company name.
About 8 Backend and 4 frontend engineers as well as a few product & design guys—all ready to hit the ground running. Most of us are startup veterans.
Interested parties can email me: wil@wilwade.com
- eganist 10y agohttp://nooga.com/174179/opentable-to-leave-chattanooga/ http://nooga.com/174179/opentable-to-leave-chattanooga/ Interesting. I know there are Very good reasons for not relocating to either Los Angeles or San Francisco, but what were the specific reasons (aside from family/homes, if any) you and the team had for opting not to relocate? Further to this: 2) Were team members offered raises as part of a relocation package? 3) Were team members offered the opportunity to work 100% remotely? 4) Has OpenTable approved this message? 5) Regardless of #4, are there certain conditions others would need to be aware of such as non-competes? I know NCAs are fairly (if not entirely) powerless in California, but I'm not aware of the laws impacting them in Tennessee. Edit: per user @rfc's jogging of my brain, Stripe has a program for hiring full development teams. @wilwade, this might be worth applying to. I know I posted it in another comment, but it's worthy of top-order visibility: https://stripe.com/blog/bring-your-own-team https://stripe.com/blog/bring-your-own-team
- stray 10y agoI can't speak for OP, but Chattanooga is a pretty awesome place to be. I left Chattanooga for Boulder and it was the second stupidest thing I've ever done. Ok, maybe third.
- austinlyons 10y agoCurious: From your perspective, what are some reasons you prefer Chattanooga over Boulder?
- gregkerzhner 10y agoThe appeal of both places is that they have a wealth of outdoor activities really close by (especially rock climbing). This is subjective, but I think the rock climbing is better in Chattanooga. Also, people are friendlier and more down to earth in Chatty, its that southern hospitality after all. The Boulderites have a reputation for being snobs and yuppies. Also the cost of living is way cheaper in Chattanooga.
- AznHisoka 10y agoWhat's the difference between a yuppie, a hipster and a millenial? I get these buzzwords confused.
- caleblloyd 10y agoa yuppie has an expensive car and house, a hipster has a bike and roommates, and a millennial borrows their parent's car and lives at home
- Grishnakh 10y agoAge too: yuppies are generally older ("yuppie" was a popular term in the 80s), hipsters are probably in their early 30s, and millennials are in their 20s-early 30s.
- graton 10y agoWell "yuppie" came from Young Urban Professional. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuppie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuppie
- dragonwriter 10y ago> What's the difference between a yuppie, a hipster and a millenial? A "yuppie" is an term of 1980s vintage for "young urban professional", formed directly from the phrase. A "hipster" is a term of more recent invention, for basically the same thing (a young urban professional). Both carry some implications of both in-group trendiness and conspicuous consumption though, with the changing character of the times, the "yuppie" has stronger associations with conspicuous consumption and "hipster" with trendiness with less general conspicuous consumption (and perhaps an outward, though often skin deep, rejection of consumerism.) A millennial is a member of a particular generational cohort, basically the group now between the mid-teens and mid-30s. Modern hipsters/yuppies are probably also millenials, but plenty of millenials are neither.
- pooper 10y agoWhat do you not like about Boulder? I was there for a summer and I loved that place.
- davidw 10y agoBoulder is really nice, but they have crazy NIMBY politics there: https://journal.dedasys.com/2015/06/18/boulder-colorado-vs-bend-oregon/ https://journal.dedasys.com/2015/06/18/boulder-colorado-vs-b...
- haney 10y agoI think I speak for everyone when I say that we miss having you in Chattanooga.
- stray 10y agoI'm on the verge of coming back, brother.
- joshmarlow 10y agoThe Bulleit would abound.
- wilwade 10y ago1) Outside of family and homes, the cost of living is just crazy. Especially with a family. Also the area is more family friendly than SF (since I was there last). Commute is short and easy. Plus trees (different than SF). 2) Yes 3) No 4) As always comments are my own and may not reflect the opinions of my employer. (They have been quite kind in offering time and space to assist in job transition.) 5) These differ around the team, but shouldn't be an issue. Will look into Stripe!
- LargeCompanies 10y agoHeck yeah anywhere in TN vs. SAN Francisco. There's about a zero homeless epedemic(it's very sad to see/experience how many suffer on the streets there) in Nashville and elsewhere compared to the Mecca of that SAN Fran. Cost of living is great.. mountains.. fresh air.. no people shouting crazy stuff with a megaphone and more. Note I live and am from the D.C. area and graduated from MTSU.. visited SAN Fran many times for meetings with Google who stomped on me, a reality tv show and others startup adventures. Not my cup of tea even growing up close to D.C. And Baltimore which the same suffering isn't occurring on the same scale... maybe it's the weather... hoping in the next ten or more years SAN Fran changes/helps those in need.
- mhluongo 10y agoAs someone who's lived in both places, Nashville has plenty of issues as well. Never seeing homeless people or people who don't look like you doesn't mean they aren't the or that there's not a problem, it just means it's less visible
- LargeCompanies 10y agoYes less suffering in just about every US city then SAN Fran in this regards. Thankfully it's not seen that/as much in Nashville and Baltimore. More in the latter then the former.
- oxryly1 10y ago
- hn94805 10y agoQuality of life. OT is offering good raises, so it's not really a money issue. For most of us, if we wanted to be in SF we'd already be in SF. Chattanooga is just a great place to live.
- kevinskii 10y agoI wasn't very familiar with Chattanooga before reading this thread, but after learning more about it I can see why you want to stay. It's a beautiful city.
- gscott 10y agoThe ycombinator program is still open for submissions. A team like yours is exactly the fit they are looking for and going to the bay area is for a short time.
- joshbetz 10y ago> Interesting. I know there are Very good reasons for not relocating to either Los Angeles or San Francisco, but what were the specific reasons (aside from family/homes, if any) you and the team had for opting not to relocate? Do you need reasons other than family/homes?
- ramses0 10y agoI recently moved from TX to CA (Bay Area). I had a 3k s.f. house and an all-in monthly cost of ~$2k/mo (including mortgage, insurance, pest control, etc) for household expenses. I recently had a soft offer (verbal discussion of salary ranges) of around ~$150k to move back to TX. To match that in CA dollars, it requires ~$200k/yr+ compensation. Method: Use the following two tax estimators: https://smartasset.com/taxes/texas-tax-calculator https://smartasset.com/taxes/texas-tax-calculator https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator ...count ~$1500/mo => $20k/yr for housing in TX/Dallas, ~$3000/mo => $36k/yr for housing in Bay Area. ...count ~$12k/yr for living expenses in TX, $20k/yr for Bay Area ($1000/mo for restaurants, etc, in TX, $1500/mo in Bay Area... this accounts for increased food / restaurant / drink / entertainment / parking prices in California). TX: $20k housing + $12k living => $36k mandatory expenses CA: $36k housing + $20k living => $56k mandatory expenses Include a mandatory savings rate of 50% of yearly housing costs (insulate against layoffs / economic downturns) and you're at: $46k/yr for TX and $74k/yr for CA. An offer of $150k in TX gets you income after taxes of: ~$108k minus $46k living expenses for a savings rate of ~$62k/yr. To get to a $62k/yr savings rate in CA, you need $62k+$74k after tax income which is $136k total. That requires an offer of ~$200k/yr in CA. Obviously these numbers are very hand-wavy, but it is instructive to go through this exercise. Running these numbers at a more modest $100k salary in TX and keeping expenses the same (leading to a ~$12k/yr savings rate), you need ~$86k in after tax income which is a ~$130k CA salary, which is ~30% increase over a baseline $100k in TX for a transfer to make any kind of sense (plus relo expenses, one-time-costs, etc). A $12k/yr savings rate in TX for 10 years will get you $120k and a house. A $12k/yr savings rate in CA for 10 years will get you a down payment and nothing more (ie: you cannot live/retire where you work/earn).
- krschultz 10y agoSounds about right to me, and I think your numbers are more accurate than most "cost of living" calculators because it doesn't sound like you got exactly the same house in CA that you had in TX. Most cost of living calculators assume if you have a 3k sf house in one place you'll do that again in the more expensive area, which is just not how people actually live. When you move somewhere more expensive you generally downsize a bit so the increase in spending is not as extreme. Finding only a 25% difference between CA & TX is pretty conservative.
- rfc 10y agoI spent a few minutes searching but couldn't find the link. IIRC, Airbnb was testing out hiring full teams. It was a pilot program and I'm not sure if it's still going on. If you know anyone there, I'd reach out to ask.
- eganist 10y agoAre you sure it wasn't Stripe? https://stripe.com/blog/bring-your-own-team https://stripe.com/blog/bring-your-own-team @wilwade, check the link. This might be your best shot aside from somebody reading this thread and offering directly.
- citruspi 10y agoStripe is also doing "Bring Your Own Team"[0] however it looks like they max out at 5 people. [0]: https://stripe.com/blog/bring-your-own-team https://stripe.com/blog/bring-your-own-team
- stray 10y agoHave you talked to the folks over at Lamp Post Group?
- Klarbichu 10y agoYou'll find success faster if you split up and join the talent pool sooner rather than later. If you're trying to get hired as a team, that sounds new, so employers might not have heard of such a thing. It's the first time I've heard of something so preposterous. Maybe if it was a progressive state like Colorado, I could understand, but Tennessee? I can't stand the hot, humid summers myself. Then you have chiggers and scorpions to worry about. ;)
- fecak 10y agoGetting hired as an individual is obviously easier than getting hired as a team, but they may have a bit more leverage as a team because it can solve many problems for a company very quickly and they have some demonstrated experience working together. The risk of a team dynamic and "fit" is reduced dramatically. Getting hired as a team is hardly new. Acquihire is incredibly common, and this is essentially the same thing.
- hn94805 10y agoIt's true it'd probably be easier individually. On the other hand, there have already been offers on the team. And none of us are really worried about not being able to find a job. We just work well as a team and like the idea of sticking together. As to Colorado vs Tennessee: Maybe it's not for you. I personally prefer our city as a well kept secret.
- hawski 10y agoIntel R&D office in Poland was opened in this way. There was a company that was shutting down (not relocating) and whole team was employed as new R&D office. Anyway, that was something like it. My previous company also was relocating and we wanted to stay as a team. We sent few e-mails to companies that had similar profile. We thought about placing advertisement in national and financial newspaper, but because it was relocation and not lay-offs we were not sure if that would backfire. Few companies hired more than 3 persons each out of it and maybe one had small team afterwards. You have to be lucky to pull this off.
- imsofuture 10y agoIt's preposterous other people want to live in different places?
- pknerd 10y agoa bit OT. Since you are already a team, utilize spare time to make some awesome product. Someone will eventually hire you :)
- angryasian 10y agoI know people always say this but the job search and preparation is taxing. Going through everyday for listings then all the prep work involving reading about cs stuff, and practicing white board questions.
- pknerd 10y agoComfort zone
- phaitour 10y agohave you tried elevator? goelevator.com/
- wilwade 10y agoTheir ssl cert is showing up bad. I sent an email, but I'm not sure they are still a thing.
- timdorr 10y agoAre you willing to move down to Atlanta? If so, I know of some potential options here in town. Glad to make the intro.
- 33a 10y agoHave you all considered starting a worker owned cooperative?
- mrfusion 10y agoHow would it work?
- BatFastard 10y agoLove the concept. http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/07/no-bosses-worker-owned-cooperatives/397007/ http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/07/no-bosse...
- pbreit 10y agoEventbrite is hiring engineers in Nashville.
- sailfast 10y agoIf you can't find a group that will hire you as a team, perhaps you should start a consulting / product firm. There's overhead / non-dev work to setting up shop and starting a business development pipeline to get revenue in the door of course, but if you want to stick together, build great things, and keep your culture that's a solid option if others fail.
- mrfusion 10y agoHow do you start a business development pipeline?
- sailfast 10y agoWell - this is a broad question and sales / pipeline building is an art all its own that is industry specific BUT assuming you want to build products for people for hire you might: - Identify a number of potential network contacts working for companies that may need the help, reach out to them, tell them about what you're doing and ask to meet for coffee to talk about how you can help them - Work your network to see who is looking for the kind of service you want to provide - find one client and start small and build on that work - Find companies you'd like to support and contact the "right" person (maybe the CTO? Maybe CIO? Maybe head of purchasing?") and see if they need what you want to provide or at least give them something to think about for when they need it - Look for companies putting RFPs on the street for software work (public sites or otherwise though this win rate is probably a lot lower) - Ask larger businesses in the area and/or consulting companies from more established industries if they are interested in subcontracting for software development - Ask your current employer if there's any interest in continuing the relationship as contractors for specific applications to give you some runway. This is by no means a complete list but it's what I would do in order to get it started. Then you'll want to keep doing it all the time and if you get big enough hire a sales / BD person.
- mrfusion 10y agoHow do you contact a cto or cio?
- chattamatt 10y agoPlease know that this post does not represent the views of all of us at this office. While I appreciate the effort to place us as a team, I feel this effort in particular does not represent the professional nature in which we conduct ourselves, and was posted without the permission of all of us on the team.
- eldavido 10y agoSF-based dev here. This behavior (OP) doesn't come off as unprofessional at all. You have nothing to worry about. I get that you might feel upset if this was posted without your consent, but tech is becoming hollywood and there are plenty of people who'd like to hire a proven team. I'm really interested in the belief system that led you to post this message. Details?
- gkop 10y agoThe OP could have declined to mention OpenTable by name in order to save OpenTable the embarassment.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago> in order to save OpenTable the embarrassment. Don't do something embarrassing if you want to be saved embarrassment. If you're closing a branch office, but providing the option for people to move to SF, that's important information future candidates should know about how your business operates.
- gkop 10y agoMy comment wasn't intended to be normative, just giving one perspective through which the OP could be perceived as unprofessional.
- toomuchtodo 10y agoIntent can be hard to interpret over an online discussion. My apologies.
- alberth 10y agoMailChimp? Just the other day HN had an article on them. They are in Atlanta, so not far from you. They are looking to hire 150 new employees within the next year. >> "[MailChimp] now employs about 550 people, and by next year it will be close to 700" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12642824 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12642824 Since OpenTable sends email confirmation for restaurant reservations, your team might bring interesting insight for MailChimp since it's possible you might be a current customer of them.
- seagreen 10y agoSorry to hear that OpenTable's moving out of Chattanooga. I was in Chattanooga from 2013-15 and have nothing but good things to say about their team. Most notably they ran a functional programming meetup that covered pretty advanced topics but was still inclusive to beginners. I'll remember the encouragement I got there for a long time. If anybody who cares about the Chattanooga tech scene reads this: do your best to keep the OpenTable team intact. A lot of the programming community's enthusiasm is either directly coming from or being encouraged by them. DISCLAIMER?: I was in Chattanooga a couple weeks ago and they gave me a bunch of useful, free advice on my current project. This isn't really a disclaimer though because IMO it just reflects even better on them.
- micah_chatt 10y agoI know of a tech startup in Chattanooga with the budget/funding that is willing to take on this team (cough: current employer) https://twitter.com/kenmcelrath/status/784418953141493760 https://twitter.com/kenmcelrath/status/784418953141493760
- xeromal 10y agoAwesome!
- archon 10y agoAs another Chattanooga dev, I hate to be a wet blanket, but I would be very surprised if any startup here has a need for or ability to employ a team that large. Especially since the larger employers here (TVA, Blue Cross, Unum, Covenant Transport, USX) are all .Net shops. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that I believe you would be better served to either find individual jobs here, or be willing to relocate. (And just to be clear, I'm not pushing the relocation thing. I love this city and wouldn't want to move either.)
- paulddraper 10y agoYeah, 12 engineers is a lot, for anywhere. Plus, how does hiring a team of 12 work any differently than interviewing 12 candidates and giving offers to the qualified ones? Methinks "Developers for Hire in Chattanooga" would be more useful.
- micah_chatt 10y agoI know of one company https://twitter.com/kenmcelrath/status/784418953141493760 https://twitter.com/kenmcelrath/status/784418953141493760
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- tbrooks 10y agoChattanooga is a beautiful town. I almost moved their in January. The city has a lot to offer and it could be one of the next great tech hubs. I decided not to move because I didn't think the local economy offers a lot of choice for software engineering jobs. When I visited people remarked, we've got VaynerMedia, we've got OpenTable, we've got CarbonFive, etc. etc. This news sucks because I really want to see Chattanooga grow into a techhub, but it also confirms the suspicions I originally had. :/
- rubyfan 10y agoWhen you say "backend," specifically what do you mean?