4 ms·

You are talking about 5,000 current employees being fired and many employees who were fired for reporting it. If he didn't know, then he must not know other th

by gscott 10y ago

You are talking about 5,000 current employees being fired and many employees who were fired for reporting it. If he didn't know, then he must not know other things about Wells Fargo that are equally important.

twblalock 10y ago
> You are talking about 5,000 current employees being fired and many employees who were fired for reporting it. If he didn't know, then he must not know other things about Wells Fargo that are equally important. I'm sure that's the case, and I'm sure it's also the case for most CEOs of massive companies. Wells Fargo has more than 250,000 employees and more than 6000 branches -- more branches than any other US bank. There is nobody who knows everything that is going on. It's just not possible. The number of employees fired represents a tiny fraction of the total number of employees -- about 2% or less.
- Zigurd 10y ago
  It's about 5% of US employees, concentrated in one part of the organization.
  - blfr 10y ago
    Closer to 2%.
    - Zigurd 10y ago
      Wells Fargo global headcount is about 250k. Less than half is in the US.
- JustSomeNobody 10y ago
  Then how does this spread around to all the branches if (way) upper management doesn't know? Does Suzy in Fl really spend her time chatting up Jackie in CA to get the scoop on all the D/L ways to cheat? They have a little IRC channel for duping WF management?
  - cwillu 10y ago
    The management in one branch likely socializes with the management in near-by branches. It spreads through drinks and "Yeah, it's dumb; we just do <sketchy behaviour> so we can get back to work".
  - danielweber 10y ago
    Have you ever had a job? Have you ever had management insist upon some stupid metric or some deadline that just could not be met and they refused to hear about it? People had to open new accounts or lose their jobs. Some people opened fake accounts to accomplish this. When they were found out, they were fired. Sounds like a horrible place to work, but the firings were proof that management didn't want this to happen, not some bizarro proof that this is what they wanted all along. You don't need coordination to figure out how to game a system.
    - gscott 10y ago
      This is not quite right. They were pressured by managers to open fake accounts, fired for not making quotas if not, fired if they reported the practice, and then all fired once the government finds out and it blows up. Of course the senior management plays dumb and keeps their jobs.
      - danielweber 10y ago
        They were not "all fired, once the government found out." Wells Fargo confirmed to CNNMoney that it had fired 5,300 employees over the last few years related to the shady behavior. Employees went so far as to create phony PIN numbers and fake email addresses to enroll customers in online banking services, the CFPB said. http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/08/investing/wells-fargo-created-phony-accounts-bank-fees/ http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/08/investing/wells-fargo-create...
  - rayiner 10y ago
    Because some fraction of people are cheaters. Just think of how many people you know who cheated in school. I'd say the number is 10% or higher. Some of those people became CEOs who continued to cheat, but many became low-level bank employees who continued to cheat. And if you're being measured on how many accounts you create, and the system doesn't have checks to keep people from opening accounts without consent, it's not exactly hard for all the cheaters to figure out what to do. Again, think back to all the ways people cheated in school. You think they had to coordinate to figure out how to cheat?
dragonwriter 10y ago
> If he didn't know, then he must not know other things about Wells Fargo that are equally important. Yes, but establishing the former (which is a crime) as opposed to the latter (which is an internal business matter for Wells Fargo) is the tricky part.

by gscott 10y ago

twblalock 10y ago

> You are talking about 5,000 current employees being fired and many employees who were fired for reporting it. If he didn't know, then he must not know other things about Wells Fargo that are equally important. I'm sure that's the case, and I'm sure it's also the case for most CEOs of massive companies. Wells Fargo has more than 250,000 employees and more than 6000 branches -- more branches than any other US bank. There is nobody who knows everything that is going on. It's just not possible. The number of employees fired represents a tiny fraction of the total number of employees -- about 2% or less.

Zigurd 10y ago
It's about 5% of US employees, concentrated in one part of the organization.
- blfr 10y ago
  Closer to 2%.
  - Zigurd 10y ago
    Wells Fargo global headcount is about 250k. Less than half is in the US.
JustSomeNobody 10y ago
Then how does this spread around to all the branches if (way) upper management doesn't know? Does Suzy in Fl really spend her time chatting up Jackie in CA to get the scoop on all the D/L ways to cheat? They have a little IRC channel for duping WF management?
- cwillu 10y ago
  The management in one branch likely socializes with the management in near-by branches. It spreads through drinks and "Yeah, it's dumb; we just do <sketchy behaviour> so we can get back to work".
- danielweber 10y ago
  Have you ever had a job? Have you ever had management insist upon some stupid metric or some deadline that just could not be met and they refused to hear about it? People had to open new accounts or lose their jobs. Some people opened fake accounts to accomplish this. When they were found out, they were fired. Sounds like a horrible place to work, but the firings were proof that management didn't want this to happen, not some bizarro proof that this is what they wanted all along. You don't need coordination to figure out how to game a system.
  - gscott 10y ago
    This is not quite right. They were pressured by managers to open fake accounts, fired for not making quotas if not, fired if they reported the practice, and then all fired once the government finds out and it blows up. Of course the senior management plays dumb and keeps their jobs.
    - danielweber 10y ago
      They were not "all fired, once the government found out." Wells Fargo confirmed to CNNMoney that it had fired 5,300 employees over the last few years related to the shady behavior. Employees went so far as to create phony PIN numbers and fake email addresses to enroll customers in online banking services, the CFPB said. http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/08/investing/wells-fargo-created-phony-accounts-bank-fees/ http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/08/investing/wells-fargo-create...
- rayiner 10y ago
  Because some fraction of people are cheaters. Just think of how many people you know who cheated in school. I'd say the number is 10% or higher. Some of those people became CEOs who continued to cheat, but many became low-level bank employees who continued to cheat. And if you're being measured on how many accounts you create, and the system doesn't have checks to keep people from opening accounts without consent, it's not exactly hard for all the cheaters to figure out what to do. Again, think back to all the ways people cheated in school. You think they had to coordinate to figure out how to cheat?

dragonwriter 10y ago

> If he didn't know, then he must not know other things about Wells Fargo that are equally important. Yes, but establishing the former (which is a crime) as opposed to the latter (which is an internal business matter for Wells Fargo) is the tricky part.