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>> Donald Trump, is perhaps perverse evidence that some of his army of angry men are at least healthily unhappy about the loss of meaning, self-esteem and mascu

>> Donald Trump, is perhaps perverse evidence that some of his army of angry men are at least healthily unhappy about the loss of meaning, self-esteem and masculinity that is a consequence of chosen and protracted idleness. This is a part of my theory as well. There are several groups of Americans who have had a bad time of it over the last 10-15 years. Many of them/us fall into more than one group, whether its chronically unemployed, or paying more than $20,000/yr. for health insurance, or staring at a $160,000 tuition bill per child. Many voters feel neglected by policy makers and point the finger at lobbyists and elected officials becoming too, say, symbiotic in Washington. Trump calls them out, and his outlandish proclamations of wrongdoing and wrongheadedness resonate. When you add these groups up, it turns out to be a lot of Americans because, in my view at least, this has been going on for a long time.

solipsism 10y ago
One of those groups who have had a bad time of it, for example, is African American males. If your theory doesn't include race (and racism), it's woefully incomplete.
- michaelchisari 10y ago
  HN doesn't like your comment, but it brings up a good point. Groups that have had (or have had the promise of) something react differently when that something is taken away, compared to groups that never had (or were promised) it in the first place. There were never the same promises made to black men as were made to white men. So while black men have lost that nebulous "american dream", they're much less interested in demagoguery and strongman solutions. A portion of white men, however, might feel a sense of strong injustice at losing something that has felt almost like our birthright. Others might change their perspective and realize that the promise was never all that concrete to begin with.
  - adventured 10y ago
    > they're much less interested in demagoguery and strongman solutions The existence of the Black Panther Party and numerous similar movements for decades, says otherwise. Louis Farrakhan is an obvious recent example of a demagogue.
    - michaelchisari 10y ago
      Farrakhan's support is over grossly over-exaggerated, and the BPP often mischaracterized.
- jombiezebus 10y ago
  I think the reasoning goes: mass underemployment -> discontent -> voting for in-group-identifying representative to fight on their behalf. There may be many black men who have reached the second step, but who view Trump as an outsider (from their perspective) and have not found a substitute representative (i.e., their "black Trump").
ac29 10y ago
>$160,000 tuition bill per child This is the approximate tuition for 4 years at Harvard (@ $40k/year), and not at all representative of the the real cost of university degrees in the US. Tuition at state schools, which are often quite good, is much less. CSU schools, where I went to school, estimate total cost of attendance at about $25k/year [0] split roughly evenly between school costs and living costs... on the high end (less if you live with family, or in a lower cost area of California). Anecdotally, I can verify these numbers. Unless you are a very high net worth family, $160k for college tuition is overpriced. [0] http://www.calstate.edu/sas/costofattendance/ http://www.calstate.edu/sas/costofattendance/
- 11thEarlOfMar 10y ago
  I wrote 'tuition' but was talking about 'total cost', which is what matters. Harvard is $65,000 | $260,000 [0] I'm paying for UC Davis, $35,000 | $140,000 [1] My next kid wants to go to Loyola Marymount, $63,000 | $252,000 [2] Average student loan debt in 2005 was $15,600 Average student loan dept in 2016 was $37,000 [3] [0] https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/how-aid-works/cost-attendance https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/how-aid-works/cost... [1] https://www.ucdavis.edu/admissions/cost/ https://www.ucdavis.edu/admissions/cost/ [2] http://financialaid.lmu.edu/generalinformation/costofattendance/ http://financialaid.lmu.edu/generalinformation/costofattenda... [3] http://www.cbsnews.com/news/congrats-class-of-2016-youre-the-most-indebted-yet/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/congrats-class-of-2016-youre-the...
- actsasbuffoon 10y ago
  Student loan debt often exceeds $100k for people with post graduate degrees.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

solipsism 10y ago

One of those groups who have had a bad time of it, for example, is African American males. If your theory doesn't include race (and racism), it's woefully incomplete.

michaelchisari 10y ago
HN doesn't like your comment, but it brings up a good point. Groups that have had (or have had the promise of) something react differently when that something is taken away, compared to groups that never had (or were promised) it in the first place. There were never the same promises made to black men as were made to white men. So while black men have lost that nebulous "american dream", they're much less interested in demagoguery and strongman solutions. A portion of white men, however, might feel a sense of strong injustice at losing something that has felt almost like our birthright. Others might change their perspective and realize that the promise was never all that concrete to begin with.
- adventured 10y ago
  > they're much less interested in demagoguery and strongman solutions The existence of the Black Panther Party and numerous similar movements for decades, says otherwise. Louis Farrakhan is an obvious recent example of a demagogue.
  - michaelchisari 10y ago
    Farrakhan's support is over grossly over-exaggerated, and the BPP often mischaracterized.
jombiezebus 10y ago
I think the reasoning goes: mass underemployment -> discontent -> voting for in-group-identifying representative to fight on their behalf. There may be many black men who have reached the second step, but who view Trump as an outsider (from their perspective) and have not found a substitute representative (i.e., their "black Trump").

ac29 10y ago

>$160,000 tuition bill per child This is the approximate tuition for 4 years at Harvard (@ $40k/year), and not at all representative of the the real cost of university degrees in the US. Tuition at state schools, which are often quite good, is much less. CSU schools, where I went to school, estimate total cost of attendance at about $25k/year [0] split roughly evenly between school costs and living costs... on the high end (less if you live with family, or in a lower cost area of California). Anecdotally, I can verify these numbers. Unless you are a very high net worth family, $160k for college tuition is overpriced. [0] http://www.calstate.edu/sas/costofattendance/ http://www.calstate.edu/sas/costofattendance/

11thEarlOfMar 10y ago
I wrote 'tuition' but was talking about 'total cost', which is what matters. Harvard is $65,000 | $260,000 [0] I'm paying for UC Davis, $35,000 | $140,000 [1] My next kid wants to go to Loyola Marymount, $63,000 | $252,000 [2] Average student loan debt in 2005 was $15,600 Average student loan dept in 2016 was $37,000 [3] [0] https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/how-aid-works/cost-attendance https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/how-aid-works/cost... [1] https://www.ucdavis.edu/admissions/cost/ https://www.ucdavis.edu/admissions/cost/ [2] http://financialaid.lmu.edu/generalinformation/costofattendance/ http://financialaid.lmu.edu/generalinformation/costofattenda... [3] http://www.cbsnews.com/news/congrats-class-of-2016-youre-the-most-indebted-yet/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/congrats-class-of-2016-youre-the...
actsasbuffoon 10y ago
Student loan debt often exceeds $100k for people with post graduate degrees.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]