10 ms·

Apple also forces developers to use their payment system which charges 30%. Yet Android is the problem.

by mmanfrin 10y ago

gjolund 10y ago
Its called business.
- mmanfrin 10y ago
  And in the context of this conversation it's also anti-competitive.
- spaceribs 10y ago
  "it's called being smart"
  - copperx 10y ago
    Wrong.
    - joshstrange 10y ago
      I don't think the parent comment was actually agreeing but instead of mocking Donald Trump's response to Hillary's comment about him not paying federal income tax. But I could be wrong.
      - joatmon-snoo 10y ago
        Was going to say that then I saw this!
      - sangnoir 10y ago
        I suspect the comment you replied to was also quoting Trump, specifically a moment during the first debate when he leaned into the mic and whispered "wrong" repeatedly to counter something Hillary had said. Surprisingly, I can't find the gif right now considering how rampant it was. Atttibuting 1-word quotations is a guessing game, I might as well be...wrong
  - serf 10y ago
    this year there needs to be another option next to the downvote button. 1) Upvote 2) Downvote 3) User made a politically charged comment in a thread that has nothing to do with politics as a way to insert opinions. As for what the third button does. I don't know. It doesn't really even have to do anything, it'd make me feel better just being able to count the appearances of such comments in every thread this election year. A joke, of course, but only kind of.
    - spaceribs 10y ago
      To be honest, I was really on the fence about making that comment because of exactly this. It's that raw "slimy but legal so it's ok" attitude that I'm trying to capture. It's unfortunate that a presidential candidate epitomizes that sentiment, but that's what comes to mind when I hear something like "It's just business". Edit: now I need to go and rewatch "Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room"
    - vacri 10y ago
      Click on a comment's timestamp, and you get the option to 'flag' it (requires a certain amount of karma though)
- bbctol 10y ago
  Yes, it is. Does that mean it can't be bad?
coldtea 10y ago
From what I understand, Apple doesn't force anyone. It's up to them to use it or not. They can always NOT deliver apps for iOS if they think 30% is too much.
- zeveb 10y ago
  That's … a bit drastic. Why should Apple have any say over whose software I choose to install on a device once I have bought it from them? (this is, incidentally, a major reason why I have not bought an Apple device in twenty years)
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >That's … a bit drastic. Why should Apple have any say over whose software I choose to install on a device once I have bought it from them? So that they can fully control, secure and curate the experience, which is what I am buying Apple phones for. Well, not really (I'm mostly buying them for the hardware and software combo, which I prefer to Android offerings), but I can appreciate that having a single, sandboxed, signed, etc source of software on a phone, makes it more secure and hassle free thing for users (of which an extremely tiny minority are in any way computer geeks). It also creates a ecosystem that moves in lockstep with the hardware and OS changes -- even if just because it is forced to. For others, there's always a custom Android install.
    - zeveb 10y ago
      I don't trust Apple to have my best interests at heart. Out of all the people and organisations in the world, only I have my best interests at heart. Thus, only I can be trusted to control, secure and curate my experience.
      - coldtea 10y ago
        >I don't trust Apple to have my best interests at heart. Out of all the people and organisations in the world, only I have my best interests at heart. Thus, only I can be trusted to control, secure and curate my experience. Yes, but it's not about individual interests. It's about the aggregate interests of users of a platform, the majority of which are average Joes which would otherwise get every malware possible in their phone. It's kind of like democracy: you may know your best interests yourself, but you only get one vote. So what laws get passed etc, is what the majority decides. Only in this case Apple makes their political platform (iOS) and people vote with their wallets whether they like it or not. For lone-wolfs that tend to their own personal interests, there's always Android, or even OpenMoko.
DominikR 10y ago
Android also has the similar ToS regarding in app purchase, the only difference is that they do not currently enforce it. For an indie developer it doesn't sound like a big issue, but for big corporations uncertainty in the business model is a big deal. Often large budgets and many jobs depend on it.
- notatoad 10y ago
  Android does not have a ToS regarding in-app purchases, the Play Store does. You are free to distribute your android app outside the play store. And the play store ToS rules around in-app purchases also don't apply to physical goods, or products or services that can be used outside the app. This means that a companies like netflix or spotify are free to collect payments for their services without giving google a 30% cut, like they have to give apple. This is not an unenforced clause, a grey area, or a cause for uncertainty; the play store terms are very clear. https://play.google.com/about/monetization-ads/ https://play.google.com/about/monetization-ads/
  - DominikR 10y ago
    > Android does not have a ToS regarding in-app purchases, the Play Store does. I think you know very well that I was talking about the Play Store. > And the play store ToS rules around in-app purchases also don't apply to physical goods, or products or services that can be used outside the app Apple in app purchase ToS: 3.1.5 Physical Goods and Services Outside of the App: If your app enables people to purchase goods or services that will be consumed outside of the app, you must use purchase methods other than IAP to collect those payments, such as Apple Pay or traditional credit card entry. Apps may facilitate transmission of approved virtual currencies (e.g. Bitcoin, DogeCoin) provided that they do so in compliance with all state and federal laws for the territories in which the app functions. It is not identical (I wrote it is _similar_) as Netflix does have to give Apple a cut, but there are many exceptions both on Apple's side just as there are other exceptions on Google's side. What really annoys me about your comment though is that my comment wasn't about saying Apple is better or Google is better (clearly some people here can't even mentally handle anyone criticising their beloved company), I'm not even interested in such a conversation. My comment was about the issues companies have with the fact that Google doesn't enforce their own ToS. (or even worse, maybe they do in some cases and most developers don't know) Small developers are incentivised to ignore the rules while larger businesses can't risk allocating large budgets towards a business model that contains such uncertainty. Maybe you can next go through my comments and correct me on grammar errors. English is not my native language after all so I'm certain there's lots of material to find there. Have a nice day!

Apple also forces developers to use their payment system which charges 30%. Yet Android is the problem.

gjolund 10y ago

Its called business.

mmanfrin 10y ago
And in the context of this conversation it's also anti-competitive.
spaceribs 10y ago
"it's called being smart"
- copperx 10y ago
  Wrong.
  - joshstrange 10y ago
    I don't think the parent comment was actually agreeing but instead of mocking Donald Trump's response to Hillary's comment about him not paying federal income tax. But I could be wrong.
    - joatmon-snoo 10y ago
      Was going to say that then I saw this!
    - sangnoir 10y ago
      I suspect the comment you replied to was also quoting Trump, specifically a moment during the first debate when he leaned into the mic and whispered "wrong" repeatedly to counter something Hillary had said. Surprisingly, I can't find the gif right now considering how rampant it was. Atttibuting 1-word quotations is a guessing game, I might as well be...wrong
- serf 10y ago
  this year there needs to be another option next to the downvote button. 1) Upvote 2) Downvote 3) User made a politically charged comment in a thread that has nothing to do with politics as a way to insert opinions. As for what the third button does. I don't know. It doesn't really even have to do anything, it'd make me feel better just being able to count the appearances of such comments in every thread this election year. A joke, of course, but only kind of.
  - spaceribs 10y ago
    To be honest, I was really on the fence about making that comment because of exactly this. It's that raw "slimy but legal so it's ok" attitude that I'm trying to capture. It's unfortunate that a presidential candidate epitomizes that sentiment, but that's what comes to mind when I hear something like "It's just business". Edit: now I need to go and rewatch "Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room"
  - vacri 10y ago
    Click on a comment's timestamp, and you get the option to 'flag' it (requires a certain amount of karma though)
bbctol 10y ago
Yes, it is. Does that mean it can't be bad?

coldtea 10y ago

From what I understand, Apple doesn't force anyone. It's up to them to use it or not. They can always NOT deliver apps for iOS if they think 30% is too much.

zeveb 10y ago
That's … a bit drastic. Why should Apple have any say over whose software I choose to install on a device once I have bought it from them? (this is, incidentally, a major reason why I have not bought an Apple device in twenty years)
- coldtea 10y ago
  >That's … a bit drastic. Why should Apple have any say over whose software I choose to install on a device once I have bought it from them? So that they can fully control, secure and curate the experience, which is what I am buying Apple phones for. Well, not really (I'm mostly buying them for the hardware and software combo, which I prefer to Android offerings), but I can appreciate that having a single, sandboxed, signed, etc source of software on a phone, makes it more secure and hassle free thing for users (of which an extremely tiny minority are in any way computer geeks). It also creates a ecosystem that moves in lockstep with the hardware and OS changes -- even if just because it is forced to. For others, there's always a custom Android install.
  - zeveb 10y ago
    I don't trust Apple to have my best interests at heart. Out of all the people and organisations in the world, only I have my best interests at heart. Thus, only I can be trusted to control, secure and curate my experience.
    - coldtea 10y ago
      >I don't trust Apple to have my best interests at heart. Out of all the people and organisations in the world, only I have my best interests at heart. Thus, only I can be trusted to control, secure and curate my experience. Yes, but it's not about individual interests. It's about the aggregate interests of users of a platform, the majority of which are average Joes which would otherwise get every malware possible in their phone. It's kind of like democracy: you may know your best interests yourself, but you only get one vote. So what laws get passed etc, is what the majority decides. Only in this case Apple makes their political platform (iOS) and people vote with their wallets whether they like it or not. For lone-wolfs that tend to their own personal interests, there's always Android, or even OpenMoko.

DominikR 10y ago

Android also has the similar ToS regarding in app purchase, the only difference is that they do not currently enforce it. For an indie developer it doesn't sound like a big issue, but for big corporations uncertainty in the business model is a big deal. Often large budgets and many jobs depend on it.

notatoad 10y ago
Android does not have a ToS regarding in-app purchases, the Play Store does. You are free to distribute your android app outside the play store. And the play store ToS rules around in-app purchases also don't apply to physical goods, or products or services that can be used outside the app. This means that a companies like netflix or spotify are free to collect payments for their services without giving google a 30% cut, like they have to give apple. This is not an unenforced clause, a grey area, or a cause for uncertainty; the play store terms are very clear. https://play.google.com/about/monetization-ads/ https://play.google.com/about/monetization-ads/
- DominikR 10y ago
  > Android does not have a ToS regarding in-app purchases, the Play Store does. I think you know very well that I was talking about the Play Store. > And the play store ToS rules around in-app purchases also don't apply to physical goods, or products or services that can be used outside the app Apple in app purchase ToS: 3.1.5 Physical Goods and Services Outside of the App: If your app enables people to purchase goods or services that will be consumed outside of the app, you must use purchase methods other than IAP to collect those payments, such as Apple Pay or traditional credit card entry. Apps may facilitate transmission of approved virtual currencies (e.g. Bitcoin, DogeCoin) provided that they do so in compliance with all state and federal laws for the territories in which the app functions. It is not identical (I wrote it is _similar_) as Netflix does have to give Apple a cut, but there are many exceptions both on Apple's side just as there are other exceptions on Google's side. What really annoys me about your comment though is that my comment wasn't about saying Apple is better or Google is better (clearly some people here can't even mentally handle anyone criticising their beloved company), I'm not even interested in such a conversation. My comment was about the issues companies have with the fact that Google doesn't enforce their own ToS. (or even worse, maybe they do in some cases and most developers don't know) Small developers are incentivised to ignore the rules while larger businesses can't risk allocating large budgets towards a business model that contains such uncertainty. Maybe you can next go through my comments and correct me on grammar errors. English is not my native language after all so I'm certain there's lots of material to find there. Have a nice day!