4 ms·

Java drops to #2 in TIOBE index

18 points by vijaydev 16y ago

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
rbanffy 16y ago
I am only surprised it's second to C.
- vijaydev 16y ago
  Quoting from http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index....: "The scores for C have been pretty constant through the years, varying between the 15% and 20% market share for almost 10 years. So the main reason for C's number 1 position is not C's uprise, but the decline of its competitor Java."
- gphil 16y ago
  If you look at the list, Objective-C has also jumped up 31 spots since last April. I'm wondering if a shift toward development for mobile devices (iPhone and otherwise) has caused C to leapfrog Java.
  - ggruschow 16y ago
    Consider what that means: at one time Java was THE way to do mobile phone apps.
    - rbanffy 16y ago
      Java is still more or less the way to do mobile for anything non-Apple.
      - rubinelli 16y ago
        It's true, specially for games, but there is a significant shift towards JavaScript for non-demanding apps and widgets.
  - towndrunk 16y ago
    I noticed the Objective-C jump too. Action script is still at the bottom of the list too. Interesting to me is Ruby. I would have thought that would be near the top. All you hear now is Ruby, Ruby, Ruby...
    - hammerdr 16y ago
      It's because us Ruby developers have a nice tool stack and discoverable APIs such that we don't have to search Google! In all seriousness, though, I agree. The anecdotal evidence that I have is that Ruby (and Javascript) are getting to be more popular. That may just be with the crowd I hang out with though.
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    > iPhone and otherwise Objective-C is not particularly useful for any other mobile platform that's not Apple's
    - JoelMcCracken 16y ago
      "otherwise" as ipad, ipod touch...
devinj 16y ago
Is it cause for concern, or just a statistically insignificant blip? It seems obvious to me that it is neither. Even among java programmers, a miniscule fall that brought it a tiny bit below another language that isn't generally used for the same things as Java is totally unimportant. Not to mention other JVM languages are climbing up the rankings. And it's not very sound as a basis for what languages are important. And it's definitely not a blip. Java's been going down for years in the TIOBE rankings.
fleitz 16y ago
It's the new COBOL! It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, I think one of the worst reasons to use a particular language is because of it's popularity. Java did a lot of great things but I think its time has passed. The codebase that is out there makes it difficult to make any significant changes to the language. (eg. generics) It's lagging because its popularity makes any revolutionary changes impractical to enterprise customers (eg. Oracle). I actually think that Oracle may piss the community off enough that the open source forks of java start making improvements to the language. (eg. MySQL) New language features are being added to JVM based languages such as scala and clojure instead. This allows new ideas (i realize these are old ideas from a LISP perspective) to florish and reuse the extensive codebase.
ableal 16y ago
I noticed the delta from #1 to #2 is 0.007%, i.e. in the 4th significant digit if you round. (I suppose that if a C programmer had the flu for a couple of weeks, it would be a tie ...)
davidw 16y ago
My numbers are better than theirs: http://langpop.com http://langpop.com - I use multiple sources. While I stand by my results, I think that they are, by their very nature, not all that precise, so making a big deal out of a blip like this is great for publicity, but probably not very meaningful.
- ableal 16y ago
  Thanks for the additional data. If you don't mind a suggestion, having the combined index at the top, with details below, would probably be more attractive. The large logo with vertical color bars also creates an expectation that the monochromatic horizontal bars end up disappointing ...
  - matrix 16y ago
    I strongly agree that the normalized/aggregated results should be at the top. The first graph confused the hell out of me (like erlanger, I thought "D? Seriously?"). Think of it as putting an executive summary at the start of an article or paper.
- erlanger 16y ago
  For all this bluster, D seems awfully high on that list (above ActionScript and Objective-C? really?).
  - davidw 16y ago
    I guess ableal is right. You need to be looking at the normalized results, further down the page.
    - erlanger 16y ago
      Ah, that makes sense, I didn't read and assumed that the first chart was the summary.
- Vitaly 16y ago
  not sure if freshmeat and google code are the all that 'authorative' about the opensource projects using languages. for one most Ruby projects are hosted on github.
api 16y ago
I get the feeling that C and C++ are undergoing a mini-renaissance right now. This is a good thing. The high level language / low-level language thing is one of the "cycles of reincarnation" in software. I do sometimes wonder... if we spent our time cleaning up the C/C++ ecosystem instead of recoding everything in the newest language of the month, would we get further with that?
johnohara 16y ago
The claim is that Java is losing ground to other languages that use the JVM yet very few in the top-50 rely on the JVM. JavaFX is cited but it's only "approaching" the top-20.
tomh- 16y ago
Seriously? Go outranks action script? This list is flawed.
- grayrest 16y ago
  I'm suspicious of their sources when Delphi outranks Javascript as well...

18 points by vijaydev 16y ago

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

rbanffy 16y ago

I am only surprised it's second to C.

vijaydev 16y ago
Quoting from http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index....: "The scores for C have been pretty constant through the years, varying between the 15% and 20% market share for almost 10 years. So the main reason for C's number 1 position is not C's uprise, but the decline of its competitor Java."
gphil 16y ago
If you look at the list, Objective-C has also jumped up 31 spots since last April. I'm wondering if a shift toward development for mobile devices (iPhone and otherwise) has caused C to leapfrog Java.
- ggruschow 16y ago
  Consider what that means: at one time Java was THE way to do mobile phone apps.
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    Java is still more or less the way to do mobile for anything non-Apple.
    - rubinelli 16y ago
      It's true, specially for games, but there is a significant shift towards JavaScript for non-demanding apps and widgets.
- towndrunk 16y ago
  I noticed the Objective-C jump too. Action script is still at the bottom of the list too. Interesting to me is Ruby. I would have thought that would be near the top. All you hear now is Ruby, Ruby, Ruby...
  - hammerdr 16y ago
    It's because us Ruby developers have a nice tool stack and discoverable APIs such that we don't have to search Google! In all seriousness, though, I agree. The anecdotal evidence that I have is that Ruby (and Javascript) are getting to be more popular. That may just be with the crowd I hang out with though.
- rbanffy 16y ago
  > iPhone and otherwise Objective-C is not particularly useful for any other mobile platform that's not Apple's
  - JoelMcCracken 16y ago
    "otherwise" as ipad, ipod touch...

devinj 16y ago

Is it cause for concern, or just a statistically insignificant blip? It seems obvious to me that it is neither. Even among java programmers, a miniscule fall that brought it a tiny bit below another language that isn't generally used for the same things as Java is totally unimportant. Not to mention other JVM languages are climbing up the rankings. And it's not very sound as a basis for what languages are important. And it's definitely not a blip. Java's been going down for years in the TIOBE rankings.

fleitz 16y ago

It's the new COBOL! It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, I think one of the worst reasons to use a particular language is because of it's popularity. Java did a lot of great things but I think its time has passed. The codebase that is out there makes it difficult to make any significant changes to the language. (eg. generics) It's lagging because its popularity makes any revolutionary changes impractical to enterprise customers (eg. Oracle). I actually think that Oracle may piss the community off enough that the open source forks of java start making improvements to the language. (eg. MySQL) New language features are being added to JVM based languages such as scala and clojure instead. This allows new ideas (i realize these are old ideas from a LISP perspective) to florish and reuse the extensive codebase.

ableal 16y ago

I noticed the delta from #1 to #2 is 0.007%, i.e. in the 4th significant digit if you round. (I suppose that if a C programmer had the flu for a couple of weeks, it would be a tie ...)

davidw 16y ago

My numbers are better than theirs: http://langpop.com http://langpop.com - I use multiple sources. While I stand by my results, I think that they are, by their very nature, not all that precise, so making a big deal out of a blip like this is great for publicity, but probably not very meaningful.

ableal 16y ago
Thanks for the additional data. If you don't mind a suggestion, having the combined index at the top, with details below, would probably be more attractive. The large logo with vertical color bars also creates an expectation that the monochromatic horizontal bars end up disappointing ...
- matrix 16y ago
  I strongly agree that the normalized/aggregated results should be at the top. The first graph confused the hell out of me (like erlanger, I thought "D? Seriously?"). Think of it as putting an executive summary at the start of an article or paper.
erlanger 16y ago
For all this bluster, D seems awfully high on that list (above ActionScript and Objective-C? really?).
- davidw 16y ago
  I guess ableal is right. You need to be looking at the normalized results, further down the page.
  - erlanger 16y ago
    Ah, that makes sense, I didn't read and assumed that the first chart was the summary.
Vitaly 16y ago
not sure if freshmeat and google code are the all that 'authorative' about the opensource projects using languages. for one most Ruby projects are hosted on github.

api 16y ago

I get the feeling that C and C++ are undergoing a mini-renaissance right now. This is a good thing. The high level language / low-level language thing is one of the "cycles of reincarnation" in software. I do sometimes wonder... if we spent our time cleaning up the C/C++ ecosystem instead of recoding everything in the newest language of the month, would we get further with that?

johnohara 16y ago

The claim is that Java is losing ground to other languages that use the JVM yet very few in the top-50 rely on the JVM. JavaFX is cited but it's only "approaching" the top-20.

tomh- 16y ago

Seriously? Go outranks action script? This list is flawed.

grayrest 16y ago
I'm suspicious of their sources when Delphi outranks Javascript as well...