4 ms·

Frankly a lot of people don't get the hype about having to install custom ROMs to make their phones behave in a tolerable way. People are always going to find

by kefka_p 10y ago

Frankly a lot of people don't get the hype about having to install custom ROMs to make their phones behave in a tolerable way. People are always going to find computing on devices they don't normally use to be more difficult than computing on devices they normally use, yet to you this is proof Android is better?

givinguflac 10y ago
THANK YOU! We are mostly techy folks here, and I don't understand how anyone could say to the average user "just install a ROM and it's a big improvement on the software that ships with it." As correct as that is in my experience, you seriously expect grandma or even just your average non-techie user to even give a shit? My wife can't be bothered to turn wifi on when she gets home because she doesn't even think about it, and you want me to have her unlock her bootloader and flash something? hah. Perspective folks.
- kefka_p 10y ago
  I'm a technophile myself albeit one that has spent the better part of a lifetime interacting with non-technical users. Such experience has left me with impression that expecting end-users to do anything I would consider bothersome, or requiring even a modicum of effort, is a no sale proposition. This is true when it comes to actually improving one's experience, to say nothing of achieving a reasonable baseline. If people have to jump through hoops to achieve usability, it seems a fair bet that they won't be a repeat customer.
r00fus 10y ago
This is a crux isn't it? Do you want an information appliance that simply works and happens to have pre-approved software choices (albeit a huge number), or a pocket general purpose computing device (with less accessory/software support, but hey you can always install custom software)?
- kefka_p 10y ago
  I like a happy medium myself. For whatever it is worth, I've found that despite an appliance-like nature, I can extend iOS with third-party and custom software to my satisfaction. The key point here is that I don't have to resort to such in order to have a good experience as an end-user. I'd argue that iOS falls between the extremes you've highlighted. It isn't really a general purpose computing platform as evident in the differences between say how multitasking and filesystems are implemented and what they expose to the end-user. On the other hand, the core OS has always supported preemptive multitasking and has always had a real filesystem to boot. The limitations of the presentation are inconveniences to be sure, but still I can slap together an app in Objective-C or Swift and slap it on the phone with ease. That said I'm sure there are some tasks more easily achieved on traditional systems. That noted, if memory serves this was also the case with the PC/desktop transition. Desktops couldn't do everything big iron could do, but they did enough, it would seem.
ubernostrum 10y ago
Also it's worth noting how many comments' worth of debates there are in this thread over specific processors, phones they come in, and software configurations, when the competitor's answer is "we put out a phone once a year, just get the latest whenever you feel like upgrading and it'll be the fastest one out there".
cholantesh 10y ago
Well, given that most Android users don't do that, and that iOS users do their share of custom ROM installation, 'a lot of people' seem to be 'setting up straw men' as opposed to 'getting the hype'. >People are always going to find computing on devices they don't normally use to be more difficult than computing on devices they normally use, yet to you this is proof Android is better? I use an iPhone 6S daily at work, so I'm not one of those people and I don't deign to speak for them or anyone else. As far as my experience is concerned, yes, Android is better.
- kefka_p 10y ago
  > Well, given that most Android users don't do that, and that iOS users do their share of custom ROM installation ... I never named any specifics on the matter of platform preferences as regards installation of custom roms. You seem a bit defensive. > I use an iPhone 6S daily at work, so I'm not one of those people [who ... find computing on devices they don't normally use to be more difficult than computing on devices they normally use] You're employing a different and less expansive standard of normal use than I. Using a tool for work is using a tool in only a single context. Unless you have a lot of time to burn playing around on your phone at work, or develop for the phone you use at work, you're not likely to get to know how to use the device very well outside of the specific tasks entailed in your job duties. > and I don't deign to speak for them or anyone else. Reference my comment to r00fus above and note the terminology I used when speaking of my opinions. "I like a happy medium myself.", "I've found", "I can", "to my satisfaction", "I don't have to" I made no less than five references to myself in a single paragraph where I rendered an opinion on personal preferences. And even then I didn't resort to suggesting experiences that forged my personal preferences dictates what is best for others. > As far as my experience is concerned ... "The plural of data is not anecdote." > yes, Android is better This is the kind of generalization I have a hard time with. Android is better for some tasks, and iOS for others. Just as Windows is better for some tasks, and macOS for others, and Linux others still. One should always use the right tool for the job. You won't see me making any sweeping claims about which platforms are better.

by kefka_p 10y ago

givinguflac 10y ago

THANK YOU! We are mostly techy folks here, and I don't understand how anyone could say to the average user "just install a ROM and it's a big improvement on the software that ships with it." As correct as that is in my experience, you seriously expect grandma or even just your average non-techie user to even give a shit? My wife can't be bothered to turn wifi on when she gets home because she doesn't even think about it, and you want me to have her unlock her bootloader and flash something? hah. Perspective folks.

kefka_p 10y ago
I'm a technophile myself albeit one that has spent the better part of a lifetime interacting with non-technical users. Such experience has left me with impression that expecting end-users to do anything I would consider bothersome, or requiring even a modicum of effort, is a no sale proposition. This is true when it comes to actually improving one's experience, to say nothing of achieving a reasonable baseline. If people have to jump through hoops to achieve usability, it seems a fair bet that they won't be a repeat customer.

r00fus 10y ago

This is a crux isn't it? Do you want an information appliance that simply works and happens to have pre-approved software choices (albeit a huge number), or a pocket general purpose computing device (with less accessory/software support, but hey you can always install custom software)?

kefka_p 10y ago
I like a happy medium myself. For whatever it is worth, I've found that despite an appliance-like nature, I can extend iOS with third-party and custom software to my satisfaction. The key point here is that I don't have to resort to such in order to have a good experience as an end-user. I'd argue that iOS falls between the extremes you've highlighted. It isn't really a general purpose computing platform as evident in the differences between say how multitasking and filesystems are implemented and what they expose to the end-user. On the other hand, the core OS has always supported preemptive multitasking and has always had a real filesystem to boot. The limitations of the presentation are inconveniences to be sure, but still I can slap together an app in Objective-C or Swift and slap it on the phone with ease. That said I'm sure there are some tasks more easily achieved on traditional systems. That noted, if memory serves this was also the case with the PC/desktop transition. Desktops couldn't do everything big iron could do, but they did enough, it would seem.

ubernostrum 10y ago

Also it's worth noting how many comments' worth of debates there are in this thread over specific processors, phones they come in, and software configurations, when the competitor's answer is "we put out a phone once a year, just get the latest whenever you feel like upgrading and it'll be the fastest one out there".

cholantesh 10y ago

Well, given that most Android users don't do that, and that iOS users do their share of custom ROM installation, 'a lot of people' seem to be 'setting up straw men' as opposed to 'getting the hype'. >People are always going to find computing on devices they don't normally use to be more difficult than computing on devices they normally use, yet to you this is proof Android is better? I use an iPhone 6S daily at work, so I'm not one of those people and I don't deign to speak for them or anyone else. As far as my experience is concerned, yes, Android is better.

kefka_p 10y ago
> Well, given that most Android users don't do that, and that iOS users do their share of custom ROM installation ... I never named any specifics on the matter of platform preferences as regards installation of custom roms. You seem a bit defensive. > I use an iPhone 6S daily at work, so I'm not one of those people [who ... find computing on devices they don't normally use to be more difficult than computing on devices they normally use] You're employing a different and less expansive standard of normal use than I. Using a tool for work is using a tool in only a single context. Unless you have a lot of time to burn playing around on your phone at work, or develop for the phone you use at work, you're not likely to get to know how to use the device very well outside of the specific tasks entailed in your job duties. > and I don't deign to speak for them or anyone else. Reference my comment to r00fus above and note the terminology I used when speaking of my opinions. "I like a happy medium myself.", "I've found", "I can", "to my satisfaction", "I don't have to" I made no less than five references to myself in a single paragraph where I rendered an opinion on personal preferences. And even then I didn't resort to suggesting experiences that forged my personal preferences dictates what is best for others. > As far as my experience is concerned ... "The plural of data is not anecdote." > yes, Android is better This is the kind of generalization I have a hard time with. Android is better for some tasks, and iOS for others. Just as Windows is better for some tasks, and macOS for others, and Linux others still. One should always use the right tool for the job. You won't see me making any sweeping claims about which platforms are better.