5 ms·

Agreed, and I personally like Cyanogenmod and OxygenOS a lot, too. In fact, I think Touchwiz is the only (major) Android iteration that I haven't enjoyed using.

Agreed, and I personally like Cyanogenmod and OxygenOS a lot, too. In fact, I think Touchwiz is the only (major) Android iteration that I haven't enjoyed using. Frankly, I don't get all the hype about iOS' user experience - every time I've had to use an Apple device, I've found just about every task much more cumbersome.

soylentcola 10y ago
Having used both extensively (but Android more so), I find them both pretty straightforward to use for most common tasks. Both still have their more granular settings hidden behind menus but that seems to be the tradeoff for surface simplicity and aesthetics. That said, every so often there's something I need to do or want to do that's a little bit outside of the default setup. Little things that matter to me nonetheless. Things like keyboard layout, default apps, home screen layout, icon spacing, etc. On iOS the keyboard thing seems to be solved now with addon keyboards but even those other minor preferences or layout tweaks are often limited or impossible on iOS (unless you manage to jailbreak your device). On Android they're usually just a setting change, app install, or (rarely) an APK install from an independent developer away. This isn't meant so much as a critique of the Apple way of doing things. I'm well aware that my needs and wants aren't necessarily the norm or in line with the majority. Spending efforts addressing every possible use can cause just as much harm as good in a final product. That said, once I have multiple options that both "succeed" well, I start to choose based on which one "fails" better (ie: which one makes it easier for me to change or fix the rare thing that doesn't just work the way I want it to).
kefka_p 10y ago
Frankly a lot of people don't get the hype about having to install custom ROMs to make their phones behave in a tolerable way. People are always going to find computing on devices they don't normally use to be more difficult than computing on devices they normally use, yet to you this is proof Android is better?
- givinguflac 10y ago
  THANK YOU! We are mostly techy folks here, and I don't understand how anyone could say to the average user "just install a ROM and it's a big improvement on the software that ships with it." As correct as that is in my experience, you seriously expect grandma or even just your average non-techie user to even give a shit? My wife can't be bothered to turn wifi on when she gets home because she doesn't even think about it, and you want me to have her unlock her bootloader and flash something? hah. Perspective folks.
  - kefka_p 10y ago
    I'm a technophile myself albeit one that has spent the better part of a lifetime interacting with non-technical users. Such experience has left me with impression that expecting end-users to do anything I would consider bothersome, or requiring even a modicum of effort, is a no sale proposition. This is true when it comes to actually improving one's experience, to say nothing of achieving a reasonable baseline. If people have to jump through hoops to achieve usability, it seems a fair bet that they won't be a repeat customer.
- r00fus 10y ago
  This is a crux isn't it? Do you want an information appliance that simply works and happens to have pre-approved software choices (albeit a huge number), or a pocket general purpose computing device (with less accessory/software support, but hey you can always install custom software)?
  - kefka_p 10y ago
    I like a happy medium myself. For whatever it is worth, I've found that despite an appliance-like nature, I can extend iOS with third-party and custom software to my satisfaction. The key point here is that I don't have to resort to such in order to have a good experience as an end-user. I'd argue that iOS falls between the extremes you've highlighted. It isn't really a general purpose computing platform as evident in the differences between say how multitasking and filesystems are implemented and what they expose to the end-user. On the other hand, the core OS has always supported preemptive multitasking and has always had a real filesystem to boot. The limitations of the presentation are inconveniences to be sure, but still I can slap together an app in Objective-C or Swift and slap it on the phone with ease. That said I'm sure there are some tasks more easily achieved on traditional systems. That noted, if memory serves this was also the case with the PC/desktop transition. Desktops couldn't do everything big iron could do, but they did enough, it would seem.

soylentcola 10y ago

Having used both extensively (but Android more so), I find them both pretty straightforward to use for most common tasks. Both still have their more granular settings hidden behind menus but that seems to be the tradeoff for surface simplicity and aesthetics. That said, every so often there's something I need to do or want to do that's a little bit outside of the default setup. Little things that matter to me nonetheless. Things like keyboard layout, default apps, home screen layout, icon spacing, etc. On iOS the keyboard thing seems to be solved now with addon keyboards but even those other minor preferences or layout tweaks are often limited or impossible on iOS (unless you manage to jailbreak your device). On Android they're usually just a setting change, app install, or (rarely) an APK install from an independent developer away. This isn't meant so much as a critique of the Apple way of doing things. I'm well aware that my needs and wants aren't necessarily the norm or in line with the majority. Spending efforts addressing every possible use can cause just as much harm as good in a final product. That said, once I have multiple options that both "succeed" well, I start to choose based on which one "fails" better (ie: which one makes it easier for me to change or fix the rare thing that doesn't just work the way I want it to).

kefka_p 10y ago

Frankly a lot of people don't get the hype about having to install custom ROMs to make their phones behave in a tolerable way. People are always going to find computing on devices they don't normally use to be more difficult than computing on devices they normally use, yet to you this is proof Android is better?

givinguflac 10y ago
THANK YOU! We are mostly techy folks here, and I don't understand how anyone could say to the average user "just install a ROM and it's a big improvement on the software that ships with it." As correct as that is in my experience, you seriously expect grandma or even just your average non-techie user to even give a shit? My wife can't be bothered to turn wifi on when she gets home because she doesn't even think about it, and you want me to have her unlock her bootloader and flash something? hah. Perspective folks.
- kefka_p 10y ago
  I'm a technophile myself albeit one that has spent the better part of a lifetime interacting with non-technical users. Such experience has left me with impression that expecting end-users to do anything I would consider bothersome, or requiring even a modicum of effort, is a no sale proposition. This is true when it comes to actually improving one's experience, to say nothing of achieving a reasonable baseline. If people have to jump through hoops to achieve usability, it seems a fair bet that they won't be a repeat customer.
r00fus 10y ago
This is a crux isn't it? Do you want an information appliance that simply works and happens to have pre-approved software choices (albeit a huge number), or a pocket general purpose computing device (with less accessory/software support, but hey you can always install custom software)?
- kefka_p 10y ago
  I like a happy medium myself. For whatever it is worth, I've found that despite an appliance-like nature, I can extend iOS with third-party and custom software to my satisfaction. The key point here is that I don't have to resort to such in order to have a good experience as an end-user. I'd argue that iOS falls between the extremes you've highlighted. It isn't really a general purpose computing platform as evident in the differences between say how multitasking and filesystems are implemented and what they expose to the end-user. On the other hand, the core OS has always supported preemptive multitasking and has always had a real filesystem to boot. The limitations of the presentation are inconveniences to be sure, but still I can slap together an app in Objective-C or Swift and slap it on the phone with ease. That said I'm sure there are some tasks more easily achieved on traditional systems. That noted, if memory serves this was also the case with the PC/desktop transition. Desktops couldn't do everything big iron could do, but they did enough, it would seem.