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> I've been on android for a while, so I'm sure I'm biased, but stock AOSP Android is pretty much perfect for me. Very minimal and aesthetically beautiful, but

> I've been on android for a while, so I'm sure I'm biased, but stock AOSP Android is pretty much perfect for me. Very minimal and aesthetically beautiful, but still powerful and customizable. You can get AOSP on a lot of phones, you just have to be comfortable flashing a custom ROM. I don't understand why anyone would pay iPhone prices for an Android phone. Even if the hardware quality is similar (which it won't be, because Apple SoCs are at least a generation ahead of everyone else) Android app quality is much worse. I'm saying this as someone who has only ever used Android. I just can't see the justification to spending this much money on a phone Google will drop support for after 2 years, in addition to never fixing some issues that are present at launch (look up the Nexus 4 camera reset issue, which Google never fixed). I'm using a Xiaomi Redmi 2 I picked up new from AliExpress for $125 USD with free shipping to Europe, and I'm running Marshmallow via CM. Works perfectly, in fact most of the time it's better than $300-400 phones thanks to not being loaded to the gills with Google Apps crapware (seriously I have no use for Google Play Music, Books, News, etc) Edit: for people down voting this, could you explain why? I've left my opinion here and if you disagree with it, I'd love to hear why. I don't believe I've stated anything factually incorrect.

noobermin 10y ago
>(which it won't be, because Apple SoCs are at least a generation ahead of everyone else) Can anyone confirm if this is true? I thought the general advantage for i[a-zA-Z0-9]\+ is a well defined small N number of targets, which allow great optimization. Generally, the parts on apple things are a bit older than the competition but they pull off more (at least in user's eyes) compared with Android due to that optimization.
- kogepathic 10y ago
  On a hardware level they're not. They are built on the same feature size as other mobile SoCs. But just look at the benchmarks. Apple SoCs slaughter Qualcomm and Samsung chips in mobile benchmarks. Yes, they're highly optimised for their workload, but the point is that Apple is much better at doing this than everyone else making mobile SoCs.
- nissimk 10y ago
  http://bgr.com/2016/02/10/snapdragon-820-vs-apple-a9-iphone-6s/ http://bgr.com/2016/02/10/snapdragon-820-vs-apple-a9-iphone-...
- rayiner 10y ago
  Recently, Apple has been about a year ahead. Compare the A9 (which shipped in the 6s in fall 2015) with the Snapdragon 810 (which shipped in the Nexus 6p at the same time). http://www.anandtech.com/show/9837/snapdragon-820-preview/2 http://www.anandtech.com/show/9837/snapdragon-820-preview/2 http://www.anandtech.com/show/9686/the-apple-iphone-6s-and-iphone-6s-plus-review/4 http://www.anandtech.com/show/9686/the-apple-iphone-6s-and-i.... Heck, in many cases the A9 leaves the Snapdragon 820 behind, and that hasn't even shipped in a Nexus phone yet (the Pixel will probably have the 821).
  - MBCook 10y ago
    The A10 smokes it even worse. The best Android phones are competitive in multi-core performance only because they have 2x many cores as Apple.
    - blktiger 10y ago
      Even then, you're going to be paying in battery performance.
      - gcp 10y ago
        You can't say this without knowing how much the respective cores use.
  - dman 10y ago
    Wish apple was as enthusiastic about processor specs for the mac lineup as they are for the iphone lineup.
    - tptacek 10y ago
      They have a lot more control over the mobile processors. The laptop processors have to maintain compatibility with all the software that people run on their laptops; effectively, that means they're stuck with other people's processors.
- ak217 10y ago
  You can wait for the AnandTech iPhone 7/A10 review, but the rough consensus is that it's around 40% faster than A9, and the A9 is about as fast as the fastest Snapdragons (http://www.anandtech.com/show/9686/the-apple-iphone-6s-and-iphone-6s-plus-review/6 http://www.anandtech.com/show/9686/the-apple-iphone-6s-and-i...). > the parts on apple things are a bit older than the competition Not sure where you got that impression, maybe you're thinking about Apple's laptops? Apple get the best and the latest from TSMC, which at the moment is 16nm finfet and next year expected to be 10nm finfet. Intel is the only company with a better process, and they don't make smartphone SoCs. And Apple has hired all the best Austin-based talent for their design team, poaching AMD and others heavily.
  - noobermin 10y ago
    >maybe you're thinking about Apple's laptops? That may be my mistake. Thanks for the links and information.
- maxsilver 10y ago
  Part of that is not so much just that Apple is "way ahead" as it is that Qualcomm is falling far behind -- and Qualcomm's roadmap is effectively Android's roadmap, for many OEMs.
jasonkostempski 10y ago
That Xiaomi Redmi 2 seems to be exactly what I've been looking for. Maybe a little big but I'll take it if it means CM support, replaceable battery and swappable SD card. Any idea if it works on Project Fi? I can't seem to find a definitive answer.
- kogepathic 10y ago
  > Any idea if it works on Project Fi? I can't seem to find a definitive answer. I am not in the US, so I don't know, sorry. I have the 2014813 model, which supports the same LTE bands used in Europe. I also had 4G service in Japan, Korea, and China on a recent trip to Asia. Overall I would definitely recommend the phone as a solid mid-range handset. The only thing that sometimes annoys me is lack of 5GHz WiFi.
- x0x0 10y ago
  If you aren't aware (I wasn't), xiaomi phones run miui which is somewhat different than stock android. Google miui before you buy. Or you have to be comfortable installing an android distribution.
  - kogepathic 10y ago
    Yes, the original firmware sucks massively and I wouldn't wish it even on my worst enemies. That being said, it takes about 5 minutes to flash a custom recovery and the latest CM, so in the end it's a non-issue.
    - problems 10y ago
      Really? That's sad to hear, back in the Android 2.4 days I used to love MIUI and would flash it on my devices intentionally as it had so many features that weren't yet in Android. Quick settings, dial by letters, just generally nicer look and feel. I guess a lot of this has been integrated now, but damn, it used to be nice.
- s3bast0m 10y ago
  Rather try 2GB Redmi Note 3 for 145$ or 3GB version for 180$...
endisukaj 10y ago
> Android app quality is much worse. Where are you basing this on? Out of some social media apps (Facebook and Snapchat) I have found that Android apps are on-par with their iOS counterparts.
- 27182818284 10y ago
  Not the grandparent, but having used Android for years I would argue that's true too. Consider that Android apps are generally even made second for a lot of startups, so in a lot of cases Android forfeits by not even having an app in their ecosystem. Most YC companies are in that boat too--companies that make the iOS version first.
- x0x0 10y ago
  I use both. Currently I have an ipad and an android phone. Android apps are neglected next to ios. Examples: * spotify is shit on android. They broke audio playback during system announcements (like google maps directions) and just didn't give a damn for two months. It's not like anybody uses spotify and maps in a car or anything. * most bank apps on android still don't take advantage of fingerprint auth to avoid typing long bank passwords. Four word passwords with punctuation are super fun to type on mobile. * fitbit: Until about 6 months ago, pushing back from various subscreens would take you out of the app instead of navigating back to the main screen. There's clearly no-one who matters at fitbit that cares about android. It also doesn't particularly reliably connect to the device. Graphs and data desync from each other. I have not seen this on ios. * there really isn't any reader on android as nice as GoodReader * games come second, if ever -- eg kingdom rush frontiers
  - sliken 10y ago
    This good reader? https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.Good.iWare.GoodReader.ebook.Reader https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.Good.iWare...
    - x0x0 10y ago
      It doesn't look the same to me... pretty confident the good one (did you see what I did there =p ?) is ios only. https://www.goodreader.com/ https://www.goodreader.com/
winter_blue 10y ago
I picked up a used Nexus 6 (in excellent condition) recently, and it is an incredible device. I'm also on the bleeding edge OS-wise, as I get Android Beta/Preview releases. My primary device is an iPhone 6 Plus, and I have to say, Nexus 6 and Android N is really impressive from both a hardware and software perspective. That being, I wish Google decoupled device drivers from the Android image. If they adopted the Windows on PC device driver model, it would be so great for users, especially those with older and less supported phones.
- criddell 10y ago
  Do you think they could decouple and still get decent battery life?
  - winter_blue 10y ago
    The battery-conserving mechanisms of Android are not particularly hardware-specific on most devices. Ideally, Android (or their patched version of the Linux kernel) would expose an API for each different kind of device. An general API for cameras, an API for audio, etc. The manufacturers would then write device drivers that implement / fulfill the functionality of these open/generic APIs. (This is how things are done on PCs.) Some phones have two CPUs or SoCs, one being energy-efficient and the other highly-performant, and the system switches between them based on the workload. But an update of the OS could simply add & expose an additional new API for dual-SoC systems. Decoupling device drivers and OS releases would be a huge win for everyone. We'd get the security update swith newer OSes, and even driver updates would be simpler. PC peripheral manufacturers often release updates to their device drivers, and for a Linux and Windows users its relatively straightforward to update a device driver. E.g., I just updated my Nvidia graphics driver on Linux to the latest version two days ago. I have several kernel modules installed, and apt-get handled everything seamlessly, and built a new kernel image in a jiffy. How often do you see device drivers updated on Android? Especially if there's a bug, how long before it's fixed? All of the drivers on Android are baked into this giant system image, and the system image contains so many disparate components, that shouldn't all be locked together. The Android system image release process is so broken. The Google -> Manufacturer -> Carrier approval & release is slow and dysfunctional. The best way to go would be to adopt standard Linux distro practices, use a good package manager (like NixOS) that'll manage and assemble all the disparate system components, instead of shipping one giant frozen-in-time system image.
twblalock 10y ago
> I just can't see the justification to spending this much money on a phone Google will drop support for after 2 years, in addition to never fixing some issues that are present at launch (look up the Nexus 4 camera reset issue, which Google never fixed). Plus, you can't just walk into a local Google Store and use the accidental damage insurance to replace your phone on the spot (or repair it within an hour or so) if you dropped it and cracked the screen. I don't want to mail my phone in to a repair center and be without a phone for a few days. I want it fixed or exchanged in a short time while I wait, and I won't pay iPhone prices for a Pixel phone if I can't get that level of service. Purchases of high-end items are not motivated merely the items themselves. They are also motivated by the level of service the buyer gets if something goes wrong. For example, if you bring your Toyota to the dealership for service, you'll be lucky to get a loaner car. If you bring your Lexus to the dealership for service, you'll almost certainly get a loaner car that's even nicer than the car you brought in. If you buy an Apple product, you get a pretty big network of retail stores with free support and fast service turnaround. If you buy a Pixel, what do you get other than the phone itself?
- woodpanel 10y ago
  > I don't want to mail my phone in to a repair center and be without a phone for a few days. FYI: I've been a long time Android user and can tell you that the process works different. And is actually not as bad as you think. 1) You call the hotline, they send you a link via mail 2) Clicking this link will place you in their shop with a promo-code 3) You buy the replacement phone 4) Once you've got the replacement you send in the broken one (or if you feel like it earlier) 5) Once they recieved the broken one, you get a refund on you purchase Knowing this process so well is the reason I've bought me an iphone 7 now ;-)
  - massysett 10y ago
    I had an HTC One with a defective camera and HTC had no process like this. I would have had to send them the phone and wait. Verizon helped me out and sent a refurb phone without me having to return my phone first. The refurb camera was even worse. After that I went iPhone. No reason to pay the same price for Android and get crappy service, especially when the iPhone has resale value. A used Android has no resale value whatsoever. However, if the Pixel is like other Androids the list price is a joke and carriers will be discounting it shortly.
problems 10y ago
Yup, get a OnePlus, get a Xiaomi, but what's the gain in going from one of those devices to a Pixel or the latest Samsung or even an iPhone? Pretty much nothing, a different UI, maybe a slightly better camera. It still does almost everything the exact same. Specs are very often on par (this Pixel is pretty damn close to a OP3, less RAM and less ) and the phones are 40% or more cheaper! It's just plain stupid.
SapphireSun 10y ago
> Android app quality is much worse. Good thing that offline web apps will start making most native apps obsolete in a few years.
- collyw 10y ago
  Careful what you wish for. I have an Ubuntu phone which is mainly web app based, and while its fine for most things, traveling abroad without a roaming plan renders the phone pretty useless.
  - SapphireSun 10y ago
    I didn't mean that they could do it literally today. Offline capability is already present in some browsers though and producing a polished web app allows universal deployment. It wouldn't have the same look and feel as native apps though and performance is an issue for some things, but not most things.
nvarsj 10y ago
> Google will drop support for after 2 years I agree with this as an Android user. The lack of device support from Google is appalling. And all my nexus devices (4, 7) have had major hardware flaws that never get fixed - once you're past the warranty, you're SOL. The 7 had many touch screen problems, and a very flimsy charger port (which broke under warranty, then broke again after - so I can't charge it anymore :|). If you want decent hardware on Android, you have to go with Samsung. But their support for devices is even worse than Google - my Tab S just got Marshmallow. And touchwiz really hurts the Android experience. Compare to Apple - I still have a first generation iPad that my kids use, and it's still going strong. It's a bit dented, but that thing is a tank.
- simonh 10y ago
  I match your 1st gen iPad and raise you an iPhone 3GS. My youngest just upgraded to a hand-me-down iPhone 4 a few weeks ago, but my old 3GS is still working fine and even still works with the App Store. I can still download apps on to it that I bought back in 2009 and don't even show up in the store on modern devices, but they're still there for the 3GS. She used it for Whatsapp a lot. Gobsmacked.
  - vetinari 10y ago
    I match your iPhone 3GS and raise an 3G. That thing had last iOS release 4.x, which made it unusable and I was scrambling to return it to 3.x. It wasn't capable to download anything from Apple Store for years. It still works as a phone though, also most of the built-in apps work, (except for syncing with Google account, since Google disabled ActiveSync support). What a difference one year of device age can make.
    - simonh 10y ago
      I had a 3G as well. We got maybe 3 years of useful work out of it, but that's all. It ended up with my wife's sister in China. The 3GS looked the same and seemed like an incremental update, but the improvements made a massive difference. Then the year after they came out with the iPhone 4. Wow! Those 2 years look like 5 years or more worth of advances in retrospect.

noobermin 10y ago

>(which it won't be, because Apple SoCs are at least a generation ahead of everyone else) Can anyone confirm if this is true? I thought the general advantage for i[a-zA-Z0-9]\+ is a well defined small N number of targets, which allow great optimization. Generally, the parts on apple things are a bit older than the competition but they pull off more (at least in user's eyes) compared with Android due to that optimization.

kogepathic 10y ago
On a hardware level they're not. They are built on the same feature size as other mobile SoCs. But just look at the benchmarks. Apple SoCs slaughter Qualcomm and Samsung chips in mobile benchmarks. Yes, they're highly optimised for their workload, but the point is that Apple is much better at doing this than everyone else making mobile SoCs.
nissimk 10y ago
http://bgr.com/2016/02/10/snapdragon-820-vs-apple-a9-iphone-6s/ http://bgr.com/2016/02/10/snapdragon-820-vs-apple-a9-iphone-...
rayiner 10y ago
Recently, Apple has been about a year ahead. Compare the A9 (which shipped in the 6s in fall 2015) with the Snapdragon 810 (which shipped in the Nexus 6p at the same time). http://www.anandtech.com/show/9837/snapdragon-820-preview/2 http://www.anandtech.com/show/9837/snapdragon-820-preview/2 http://www.anandtech.com/show/9686/the-apple-iphone-6s-and-iphone-6s-plus-review/4 http://www.anandtech.com/show/9686/the-apple-iphone-6s-and-i.... Heck, in many cases the A9 leaves the Snapdragon 820 behind, and that hasn't even shipped in a Nexus phone yet (the Pixel will probably have the 821).
- MBCook 10y ago
  The A10 smokes it even worse. The best Android phones are competitive in multi-core performance only because they have 2x many cores as Apple.
  - blktiger 10y ago
    Even then, you're going to be paying in battery performance.
    - gcp 10y ago
      You can't say this without knowing how much the respective cores use.
- dman 10y ago
  Wish apple was as enthusiastic about processor specs for the mac lineup as they are for the iphone lineup.
  - tptacek 10y ago
    They have a lot more control over the mobile processors. The laptop processors have to maintain compatibility with all the software that people run on their laptops; effectively, that means they're stuck with other people's processors.
ak217 10y ago
You can wait for the AnandTech iPhone 7/A10 review, but the rough consensus is that it's around 40% faster than A9, and the A9 is about as fast as the fastest Snapdragons (http://www.anandtech.com/show/9686/the-apple-iphone-6s-and-iphone-6s-plus-review/6 http://www.anandtech.com/show/9686/the-apple-iphone-6s-and-i...). > the parts on apple things are a bit older than the competition Not sure where you got that impression, maybe you're thinking about Apple's laptops? Apple get the best and the latest from TSMC, which at the moment is 16nm finfet and next year expected to be 10nm finfet. Intel is the only company with a better process, and they don't make smartphone SoCs. And Apple has hired all the best Austin-based talent for their design team, poaching AMD and others heavily.
- noobermin 10y ago
  >maybe you're thinking about Apple's laptops? That may be my mistake. Thanks for the links and information.
maxsilver 10y ago
Part of that is not so much just that Apple is "way ahead" as it is that Qualcomm is falling far behind -- and Qualcomm's roadmap is effectively Android's roadmap, for many OEMs.

jasonkostempski 10y ago

That Xiaomi Redmi 2 seems to be exactly what I've been looking for. Maybe a little big but I'll take it if it means CM support, replaceable battery and swappable SD card. Any idea if it works on Project Fi? I can't seem to find a definitive answer.

kogepathic 10y ago
> Any idea if it works on Project Fi? I can't seem to find a definitive answer. I am not in the US, so I don't know, sorry. I have the 2014813 model, which supports the same LTE bands used in Europe. I also had 4G service in Japan, Korea, and China on a recent trip to Asia. Overall I would definitely recommend the phone as a solid mid-range handset. The only thing that sometimes annoys me is lack of 5GHz WiFi.
x0x0 10y ago
If you aren't aware (I wasn't), xiaomi phones run miui which is somewhat different than stock android. Google miui before you buy. Or you have to be comfortable installing an android distribution.
- kogepathic 10y ago
  Yes, the original firmware sucks massively and I wouldn't wish it even on my worst enemies. That being said, it takes about 5 minutes to flash a custom recovery and the latest CM, so in the end it's a non-issue.
  - problems 10y ago
    Really? That's sad to hear, back in the Android 2.4 days I used to love MIUI and would flash it on my devices intentionally as it had so many features that weren't yet in Android. Quick settings, dial by letters, just generally nicer look and feel. I guess a lot of this has been integrated now, but damn, it used to be nice.
s3bast0m 10y ago
Rather try 2GB Redmi Note 3 for 145$ or 3GB version for 180$...

endisukaj 10y ago

> Android app quality is much worse. Where are you basing this on? Out of some social media apps (Facebook and Snapchat) I have found that Android apps are on-par with their iOS counterparts.

27182818284 10y ago
Not the grandparent, but having used Android for years I would argue that's true too. Consider that Android apps are generally even made second for a lot of startups, so in a lot of cases Android forfeits by not even having an app in their ecosystem. Most YC companies are in that boat too--companies that make the iOS version first.
x0x0 10y ago
I use both. Currently I have an ipad and an android phone. Android apps are neglected next to ios. Examples: * spotify is shit on android. They broke audio playback during system announcements (like google maps directions) and just didn't give a damn for two months. It's not like anybody uses spotify and maps in a car or anything. * most bank apps on android still don't take advantage of fingerprint auth to avoid typing long bank passwords. Four word passwords with punctuation are super fun to type on mobile. * fitbit: Until about 6 months ago, pushing back from various subscreens would take you out of the app instead of navigating back to the main screen. There's clearly no-one who matters at fitbit that cares about android. It also doesn't particularly reliably connect to the device. Graphs and data desync from each other. I have not seen this on ios. * there really isn't any reader on android as nice as GoodReader * games come second, if ever -- eg kingdom rush frontiers
- sliken 10y ago
  This good reader? https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.Good.iWare.GoodReader.ebook.Reader https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.Good.iWare...
  - x0x0 10y ago
    It doesn't look the same to me... pretty confident the good one (did you see what I did there =p ?) is ios only. https://www.goodreader.com/ https://www.goodreader.com/

winter_blue 10y ago

I picked up a used Nexus 6 (in excellent condition) recently, and it is an incredible device. I'm also on the bleeding edge OS-wise, as I get Android Beta/Preview releases. My primary device is an iPhone 6 Plus, and I have to say, Nexus 6 and Android N is really impressive from both a hardware and software perspective. That being, I wish Google decoupled device drivers from the Android image. If they adopted the Windows on PC device driver model, it would be so great for users, especially those with older and less supported phones.

criddell 10y ago
Do you think they could decouple and still get decent battery life?
- winter_blue 10y ago
  The battery-conserving mechanisms of Android are not particularly hardware-specific on most devices. Ideally, Android (or their patched version of the Linux kernel) would expose an API for each different kind of device. An general API for cameras, an API for audio, etc. The manufacturers would then write device drivers that implement / fulfill the functionality of these open/generic APIs. (This is how things are done on PCs.) Some phones have two CPUs or SoCs, one being energy-efficient and the other highly-performant, and the system switches between them based on the workload. But an update of the OS could simply add & expose an additional new API for dual-SoC systems. Decoupling device drivers and OS releases would be a huge win for everyone. We'd get the security update swith newer OSes, and even driver updates would be simpler. PC peripheral manufacturers often release updates to their device drivers, and for a Linux and Windows users its relatively straightforward to update a device driver. E.g., I just updated my Nvidia graphics driver on Linux to the latest version two days ago. I have several kernel modules installed, and apt-get handled everything seamlessly, and built a new kernel image in a jiffy. How often do you see device drivers updated on Android? Especially if there's a bug, how long before it's fixed? All of the drivers on Android are baked into this giant system image, and the system image contains so many disparate components, that shouldn't all be locked together. The Android system image release process is so broken. The Google -> Manufacturer -> Carrier approval & release is slow and dysfunctional. The best way to go would be to adopt standard Linux distro practices, use a good package manager (like NixOS) that'll manage and assemble all the disparate system components, instead of shipping one giant frozen-in-time system image.

twblalock 10y ago

> I just can't see the justification to spending this much money on a phone Google will drop support for after 2 years, in addition to never fixing some issues that are present at launch (look up the Nexus 4 camera reset issue, which Google never fixed). Plus, you can't just walk into a local Google Store and use the accidental damage insurance to replace your phone on the spot (or repair it within an hour or so) if you dropped it and cracked the screen. I don't want to mail my phone in to a repair center and be without a phone for a few days. I want it fixed or exchanged in a short time while I wait, and I won't pay iPhone prices for a Pixel phone if I can't get that level of service. Purchases of high-end items are not motivated merely the items themselves. They are also motivated by the level of service the buyer gets if something goes wrong. For example, if you bring your Toyota to the dealership for service, you'll be lucky to get a loaner car. If you bring your Lexus to the dealership for service, you'll almost certainly get a loaner car that's even nicer than the car you brought in. If you buy an Apple product, you get a pretty big network of retail stores with free support and fast service turnaround. If you buy a Pixel, what do you get other than the phone itself?

woodpanel 10y ago
> I don't want to mail my phone in to a repair center and be without a phone for a few days. FYI: I've been a long time Android user and can tell you that the process works different. And is actually not as bad as you think. 1) You call the hotline, they send you a link via mail 2) Clicking this link will place you in their shop with a promo-code 3) You buy the replacement phone 4) Once you've got the replacement you send in the broken one (or if you feel like it earlier) 5) Once they recieved the broken one, you get a refund on you purchase Knowing this process so well is the reason I've bought me an iphone 7 now ;-)
- massysett 10y ago
  I had an HTC One with a defective camera and HTC had no process like this. I would have had to send them the phone and wait. Verizon helped me out and sent a refurb phone without me having to return my phone first. The refurb camera was even worse. After that I went iPhone. No reason to pay the same price for Android and get crappy service, especially when the iPhone has resale value. A used Android has no resale value whatsoever. However, if the Pixel is like other Androids the list price is a joke and carriers will be discounting it shortly.

problems 10y ago

Yup, get a OnePlus, get a Xiaomi, but what's the gain in going from one of those devices to a Pixel or the latest Samsung or even an iPhone? Pretty much nothing, a different UI, maybe a slightly better camera. It still does almost everything the exact same. Specs are very often on par (this Pixel is pretty damn close to a OP3, less RAM and less ) and the phones are 40% or more cheaper! It's just plain stupid.

SapphireSun 10y ago

> Android app quality is much worse. Good thing that offline web apps will start making most native apps obsolete in a few years.

collyw 10y ago
Careful what you wish for. I have an Ubuntu phone which is mainly web app based, and while its fine for most things, traveling abroad without a roaming plan renders the phone pretty useless.
- SapphireSun 10y ago
  I didn't mean that they could do it literally today. Offline capability is already present in some browsers though and producing a polished web app allows universal deployment. It wouldn't have the same look and feel as native apps though and performance is an issue for some things, but not most things.

nvarsj 10y ago

> Google will drop support for after 2 years I agree with this as an Android user. The lack of device support from Google is appalling. And all my nexus devices (4, 7) have had major hardware flaws that never get fixed - once you're past the warranty, you're SOL. The 7 had many touch screen problems, and a very flimsy charger port (which broke under warranty, then broke again after - so I can't charge it anymore :|). If you want decent hardware on Android, you have to go with Samsung. But their support for devices is even worse than Google - my Tab S just got Marshmallow. And touchwiz really hurts the Android experience. Compare to Apple - I still have a first generation iPad that my kids use, and it's still going strong. It's a bit dented, but that thing is a tank.

simonh 10y ago
I match your 1st gen iPad and raise you an iPhone 3GS. My youngest just upgraded to a hand-me-down iPhone 4 a few weeks ago, but my old 3GS is still working fine and even still works with the App Store. I can still download apps on to it that I bought back in 2009 and don't even show up in the store on modern devices, but they're still there for the 3GS. She used it for Whatsapp a lot. Gobsmacked.
- vetinari 10y ago
  I match your iPhone 3GS and raise an 3G. That thing had last iOS release 4.x, which made it unusable and I was scrambling to return it to 3.x. It wasn't capable to download anything from Apple Store for years. It still works as a phone though, also most of the built-in apps work, (except for syncing with Google account, since Google disabled ActiveSync support). What a difference one year of device age can make.
  - simonh 10y ago
    I had a 3G as well. We got maybe 3 years of useful work out of it, but that's all. It ended up with my wife's sister in China. The 3GS looked the same and seemed like an incremental update, but the improvements made a massive difference. Then the year after they came out with the iPhone 4. Wow! Those 2 years look like 5 years or more worth of advances in retrospect.