10 ms·

We all die at some point. While I too abhor cancer I find hard to fear it more than any other thing that can kill me - a stroke, a car accident, etc. The univer

by fsloth 10y ago

We all die at some point. While I too abhor cancer I find hard to fear it more than any other thing that can kill me - a stroke, a car accident, etc. The universe is out to get us - we've evolved into tough bastard but we've not defeated mortality.

toxican 10y ago
Cancer seems more scary to me than a stroke or a fatal car accident because you can try to prevent those things. Health choices can decrease chances of a stroke, being an alert/careful driver can decrease chance of an accident. Cancer though...I mean yeah you can avoid longterm sun exposure or not smoke, but there are so many out-there types of cancers that just swoop in out of nowhere that you don't stand a chance of preventing. Obviously you can't live your life in fear like that, but I think there's good reason to be more fearful or at least angry about cancer than something like a stroke/wreck.
- lintiness 10y ago
  with terminal cancer, you get time to set your life in order, say goodbye to your friends and family, and try to make a difference (pertinent given the example set by p).
  - _pmf_ 10y ago
    > and try to make a difference The cynic in me assumes that with children and a spouse, you're most likely too busy filling out forms and applications that ensure that they will not be screwed over by insurance companies and medical providers.
- emodendroket 10y ago
  When it comes to cars, nothing is stopping some yahoo not paying any attention from careening into you no matter how careful you are.
  - Retric 10y ago
    In many ways it's not preventing accidents that's important it's preventing people getting hurt. Being a defensive driver can drastically change your odds of being killed by some random yahoo. Further, the kind of car you drive can make a significant difference and improvements in car design are largely responsible for a huge reduction in fatalities. Remember, our dealing with V^2 and slow reaction time so a 50MPH car has half the energy of a 70MPH car.
    - emodendroket 10y ago
      Yeah, I mean, I agree, but I got rear-ended twice in the past year and it's changed my perspective a bit. For what it's worth, we have also drastically reduced exposure to carcinogens for most people.
  - nkrisc 10y ago
    Of course not. The point is there are things one can actively do to decrease risk (though not eliminate it). With many types of cancer that isn't the case.
    - emodendroket 10y ago
      But how is that any different from getting enough sleep, foregoing tobacco and unhealthy foods, etc.?
      - Practicality 10y ago
        Odds. As you get older your chance of getting cancer increases substantially.[1] Getting older doesn't increase your changes of getting in a car accident. 1: https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/age https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/a...
        emodendroket 10y ago
        > Getting older doesn't increase your changes of getting in a car accident. I beg to differ. > In 2012, there were almost 36 million licensed drivers ages 65 and older in the United States.1 Driving helps older adults stay mobile and independent. But the risk of being injured or killed in a motor vehicle crash increases as you age. http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/older_adult_drivers/ http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/older_adult_drivers/
- KillnBTBC 10y ago
  Cancer is scary bc of the lack of education about it in general across the global population (including the medical professionals). the Research and Technology and etc change slow but quickly, effective but ineffective...it is based on various perspectives. And the "cause" of cancer is simple and complicated and of the slight unknown...it is a long discussion. From a now 2 1/2 year post awake Brain Surgery w 90% malignant cancerous tumor removed, radiation and now bc of my re-direction of my tech biz and research/genetics, I have gene mutations discovered that generally put me on the scale to a longer lease, if you will, but this mutation has be picked up by the good ole' immune system and new research points to a intersection in the future with a increasing possibility of attacking the mutation and then my cancer specifics hit the "launch button" and go red hot to a nasty grade 4, quickly...but that is if I do nothing. I'm not the type :) but the point is, as all cancers are scary, some have become very treatable, we are still human and the relationship between each cancer usually has a genetic connection to others to at least one magnitude or more.
arkades 10y ago
> hard to fear it more than any other thing that can kill me - a stroke, a car accident, etc. Hm. I wonder your age. Young folk seem to think death impossibly foreign, and fear it / ignore it all equally. Older folk, that have had more first-hand experience with the decline of the flesh in themselves and those they grew up with, have more an appreciation for the difference between an abrupt death in a car accident, and a slow dissolution like cancer. Quite a lot of people fear dying more than they do death.
- fsloth 10y ago
  Sorry, I didn't mean to speak of death in dismissive form. I've seen too many relatives and those close to me perish in various of ways before old age not to care about it. To me all forms of it ... just feel equally bad in the end from the point of fearing some personal fate or another. My view is not of someone oblivious to life's hardship. Life hits you, you take the punches, and stand as long as you can. "Cancer" in general does not mean a slow death. Some forms can kill within weeks of a diagnosis due to quickly arising medical complications. My intent was certainly not to be dismissive of the fate of Pieter and other cancer victims.
  - the_duke 10y ago
    Radiation and chemo therapies are one of the most horrific things one can endure. Depending on the type of cancer, you can go in a few weeks, months, or fight the battle for years. Even if you endure and persist, which gets progressively easier for a lot of cancers thanks to more advanced therapies, you have to fear recurrence. I'm not at all opposed to ending one s own life if done without severe psychological issues and done thoughtfully after plenty consideration. Of course, if you regulate assisted suicide, as some countries in Europe have done, it leads down a very slippery slope. Who makes the decision on whether you are allowed to end your own life? Most current religions frown upon suicide as a sin. Life is god given and not yours to decide upon (Islam, Christianity). Or suicide is viewed as an unjustified interference in the natural order (Hinduism). And therefore most of our societies reject it. Admittedly, most suicides that are not connected to terminal illness manifest due to psychological / neurological illness and despair that might be cured or managed with proper therapy and medication, making a return to a happy life possible. It's a fascinating and very multi-facetted issue to think about.
lettergram 10y ago
*yet I am 100% confident that within the next two hundred years (baring some massive war, dark age, etc.) We will be able to use gene therapy to reduce cancer risk to negligible levels. We will probably even master the ability to program cells to do what we want... At which point all diseases where the body breaks down will likely be gone. That's not to say, we won't have issues regarding illness - just our bodies won't break down as quickly if at all.
- drcross 10y ago
  I agree with you and I hope you are right.
- rahkiin 10y ago
  And then overpopulation will become a problem even more than it is now.
  - Houshalter 10y ago
    No it won't. All first world countries have less than sustainable population growth as it is. We produce vastly more food than we need, and will be able to produce even more in the future with genetically engineered algae. We have vast areas of the Earth left to settle including deserts, antarctica and the Oceans. Not to mention space. We have millennia worth of nuclear fuel available on Earth, not to mention other forms of energy. Overpopulation is a joke.
    - seanp2k2 10y ago
      The way I see it playing out, if working life extension technology is discovered, it will first be hoarded secretly for many years / possibly generations while the rich + powerful use it to stay in power. It won't be generally accessible until much later, likely after the world is in ruins, if at all. Some people believe that it had been discovered before but lost to the ages. Creepy to think about, but makes sense. If someone could live forever, I would think they'd become a huge target for assassination.
outworlder 10y ago
> we've evolved into tough bastard but we've not defeated mortality. Well. We evolved to be a collection of cells. Before, we were unicellular organisms, fighting against other organisms for resources and ultimately, survival. Some cells just decide to revert back to the old ways. I'd say it's a form of evolution, one that's pruned by natural selection, when the host organism dies.

by fsloth 10y ago

toxican 10y ago

Cancer seems more scary to me than a stroke or a fatal car accident because you can try to prevent those things. Health choices can decrease chances of a stroke, being an alert/careful driver can decrease chance of an accident. Cancer though...I mean yeah you can avoid longterm sun exposure or not smoke, but there are so many out-there types of cancers that just swoop in out of nowhere that you don't stand a chance of preventing. Obviously you can't live your life in fear like that, but I think there's good reason to be more fearful or at least angry about cancer than something like a stroke/wreck.

lintiness 10y ago
with terminal cancer, you get time to set your life in order, say goodbye to your friends and family, and try to make a difference (pertinent given the example set by p).
- _pmf_ 10y ago
  > and try to make a difference The cynic in me assumes that with children and a spouse, you're most likely too busy filling out forms and applications that ensure that they will not be screwed over by insurance companies and medical providers.
emodendroket 10y ago
When it comes to cars, nothing is stopping some yahoo not paying any attention from careening into you no matter how careful you are.
- Retric 10y ago
  In many ways it's not preventing accidents that's important it's preventing people getting hurt. Being a defensive driver can drastically change your odds of being killed by some random yahoo. Further, the kind of car you drive can make a significant difference and improvements in car design are largely responsible for a huge reduction in fatalities. Remember, our dealing with V^2 and slow reaction time so a 50MPH car has half the energy of a 70MPH car.
  - emodendroket 10y ago
    Yeah, I mean, I agree, but I got rear-ended twice in the past year and it's changed my perspective a bit. For what it's worth, we have also drastically reduced exposure to carcinogens for most people.
- nkrisc 10y ago
  Of course not. The point is there are things one can actively do to decrease risk (though not eliminate it). With many types of cancer that isn't the case.
  - emodendroket 10y ago
    But how is that any different from getting enough sleep, foregoing tobacco and unhealthy foods, etc.?
    - Practicality 10y ago
      Odds. As you get older your chance of getting cancer increases substantially.[1] Getting older doesn't increase your changes of getting in a car accident. 1: https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/age https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/a...
      - emodendroket 10y ago
        > Getting older doesn't increase your changes of getting in a car accident. I beg to differ. > In 2012, there were almost 36 million licensed drivers ages 65 and older in the United States.1 Driving helps older adults stay mobile and independent. But the risk of being injured or killed in a motor vehicle crash increases as you age. http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/older_adult_drivers/ http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/older_adult_drivers/
KillnBTBC 10y ago
Cancer is scary bc of the lack of education about it in general across the global population (including the medical professionals). the Research and Technology and etc change slow but quickly, effective but ineffective...it is based on various perspectives. And the "cause" of cancer is simple and complicated and of the slight unknown...it is a long discussion. From a now 2 1/2 year post awake Brain Surgery w 90% malignant cancerous tumor removed, radiation and now bc of my re-direction of my tech biz and research/genetics, I have gene mutations discovered that generally put me on the scale to a longer lease, if you will, but this mutation has be picked up by the good ole' immune system and new research points to a intersection in the future with a increasing possibility of attacking the mutation and then my cancer specifics hit the "launch button" and go red hot to a nasty grade 4, quickly...but that is if I do nothing. I'm not the type :) but the point is, as all cancers are scary, some have become very treatable, we are still human and the relationship between each cancer usually has a genetic connection to others to at least one magnitude or more.

arkades 10y ago

> hard to fear it more than any other thing that can kill me - a stroke, a car accident, etc. Hm. I wonder your age. Young folk seem to think death impossibly foreign, and fear it / ignore it all equally. Older folk, that have had more first-hand experience with the decline of the flesh in themselves and those they grew up with, have more an appreciation for the difference between an abrupt death in a car accident, and a slow dissolution like cancer. Quite a lot of people fear dying more than they do death.

fsloth 10y ago
Sorry, I didn't mean to speak of death in dismissive form. I've seen too many relatives and those close to me perish in various of ways before old age not to care about it. To me all forms of it ... just feel equally bad in the end from the point of fearing some personal fate or another. My view is not of someone oblivious to life's hardship. Life hits you, you take the punches, and stand as long as you can. "Cancer" in general does not mean a slow death. Some forms can kill within weeks of a diagnosis due to quickly arising medical complications. My intent was certainly not to be dismissive of the fate of Pieter and other cancer victims.
- the_duke 10y ago
  Radiation and chemo therapies are one of the most horrific things one can endure. Depending on the type of cancer, you can go in a few weeks, months, or fight the battle for years. Even if you endure and persist, which gets progressively easier for a lot of cancers thanks to more advanced therapies, you have to fear recurrence. I'm not at all opposed to ending one s own life if done without severe psychological issues and done thoughtfully after plenty consideration. Of course, if you regulate assisted suicide, as some countries in Europe have done, it leads down a very slippery slope. Who makes the decision on whether you are allowed to end your own life? Most current religions frown upon suicide as a sin. Life is god given and not yours to decide upon (Islam, Christianity). Or suicide is viewed as an unjustified interference in the natural order (Hinduism). And therefore most of our societies reject it. Admittedly, most suicides that are not connected to terminal illness manifest due to psychological / neurological illness and despair that might be cured or managed with proper therapy and medication, making a return to a happy life possible. It's a fascinating and very multi-facetted issue to think about.

lettergram 10y ago

*yet I am 100% confident that within the next two hundred years (baring some massive war, dark age, etc.) We will be able to use gene therapy to reduce cancer risk to negligible levels. We will probably even master the ability to program cells to do what we want... At which point all diseases where the body breaks down will likely be gone. That's not to say, we won't have issues regarding illness - just our bodies won't break down as quickly if at all.

drcross 10y ago
I agree with you and I hope you are right.
rahkiin 10y ago
And then overpopulation will become a problem even more than it is now.
- Houshalter 10y ago
  No it won't. All first world countries have less than sustainable population growth as it is. We produce vastly more food than we need, and will be able to produce even more in the future with genetically engineered algae. We have vast areas of the Earth left to settle including deserts, antarctica and the Oceans. Not to mention space. We have millennia worth of nuclear fuel available on Earth, not to mention other forms of energy. Overpopulation is a joke.
  - seanp2k2 10y ago
    The way I see it playing out, if working life extension technology is discovered, it will first be hoarded secretly for many years / possibly generations while the rich + powerful use it to stay in power. It won't be generally accessible until much later, likely after the world is in ruins, if at all. Some people believe that it had been discovered before but lost to the ages. Creepy to think about, but makes sense. If someone could live forever, I would think they'd become a huge target for assassination.

outworlder 10y ago

> we've evolved into tough bastard but we've not defeated mortality. Well. We evolved to be a collection of cells. Before, we were unicellular organisms, fighting against other organisms for resources and ultimately, survival. Some cells just decide to revert back to the old ways. I'd say it's a form of evolution, one that's pruned by natural selection, when the host organism dies.