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Ask HN: Are there any tech companies in the Bay Area that offer private offices?
I’m wondering if there are any tech companies in the Bay Area that offer private offices to individual non-executive-level employees. I find that I am extremely unproductive in open office workspaces. I can never concentrate due to all the noise and visual distractions. Putting on headphones isn’t an option. Are they any places that offer something like this? Are private offices really such a rarity now?
- rahelzer 10y agoMentor Graphics has private offices. When our company was acquired by them, I thought I would really love them. But to my surprise I didn't like how it changed the culture at all. Private offices really do make developers more insular. It discourages communication to a degree I wouldn't have thought it would. Another aspect which might not be obvious at first is that offices come in difference sizes, so when somebody comes to your office--or you go to theirs--you both immediately know your relative positions on the pecking order. This induces an unwelcome power dynamic. Good ideas come from everywhere, but its human nature to buy into these symbols of status. "You know how I know I'm right and you are wrong? My office (and salary) is bigger than yours." Not necessarily said in as explicit terms as those, but the effect is real and pervasive.
- wyclif 10y agoOffices-with-doors power dynamics may be unwelcome in some company cultures. But power dynamics are unavoidable. If a company has an open plan work space or bullpen, the dynamic will be expressed in some other way that might be even more unwelcome.
- Symbiote 10y agoIn open plan offices, it would be the person with the nicest window, or furthest from the door.
- ryanmccullagh 10y agoThis is an interesting statement. At my job over the summer, I noticed management had the window seats. Those are the best seats because you can see the sun and because you can see the city.
- batbomb 10y agoTry one of the national labs :)
- tostitos1979 10y agoI spent most of my career in offices with doors, and was excited about being in an open office. It is definitely more social but it is ridiculously disruptive. When someone is happy or sad (e.g. when someone leaves, even from a different group), there is a pretty big disruption that kills productivity for 30 mins or more. Doors win I think.
- douche 10y agoAgree with the impossibility of working in an open office. There have been a couple days where I've had to work with everybody else in our conference room because of renovations to the portion of the office where our offices are. It's no good, I gave up and went home and worked from there; just too much distraction and having to be constantly on, since, whether it is rational or not, it feels like somebody is always watching you. The panopticon was a design developed to ensure constant surveillance of prisoners. It doesn't say good things about the status of employees when you make their workplace functionally equivalent.
- Haydos585x2 10y agoI've been working as a web developer for the past 5 or so years and am yet to see one that wasn't taken by senior management and even then it's only 2-4 of them. I don't think real estate companies have many available anymore. I'm sure it's better for them to say "this is a 100 person open-office" than "this fits 50 private offices". This is Australia so YMMV in the states.
- kzisme 10y agoAt my current company we had just added 5-10 new private offices, and before they were even done being built "Senior" level employees were already sitting in them...even if they were going to someone else.
- bbcbasic 10y agoSurely it's up to the business leasing the premises to do the fit out?
- djfergus 10y agoAlmost always the tenant
- f_allwein 10y agoAh, the ultimate luxury... There is a long discussion on the benefits of private offices in Peopleware, which says that Microsoft has them (although this was 1999): http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/67825.Peopleware http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/67825.Peopleware Recently, I heard of the "cave and commons" approach, which sounds more like it could be adopted by hip startups: https://hbr.org/2013/03/give-workers-the-power-to-choose-cave https://hbr.org/2013/03/give-workers-the-power-to-choose-cav...
- shoo 10y agoi think i've heard of the ideal of commons + private/quiet space too, if i recall that option is mentioned in peopleware too. (anecdote: i am currently sitting in low cubicles in the middle of a huge open plan space, with a couple of neighbouring developers, we're surrounded by about two rings of people whose jobs involve talking all day. this is okay for days that descend into endless meetings / firefighting, but pretty nightmarish for work that involves thinking hard about anything)
- cestith 10y agoMy company has pretty much everyone in "pods". It's a suite per team with a conference room off the hallway, surrounded by offices with doors around the room. There's a TV in each pod with an HDMI cable in conference table for presentations, meetings, or pair/group hack sessions. The doors unfortunately aren't the best at blocking loud conversations, but it's still better than trying to concentrate in a loud cubicle farm.
- joezydeco 10y agoI love this idea the most. I've worked in places where teams have created "war rooms", basically a commandeered conference room where everyone hunkers down around the table and gets the project done (this was when I worked on a mechanical device and we needed to mess with parts and tools). The benefit of the pod to me is that you can make the closable offices way smaller (desk, small table, couple of chairs) when the doors are open the offices become part of the larger project room. The entire project room can also be closed off for noise, privacy, meetings, stealth, etc.
- dijit 10y agoI also have the same predicament as you, I simply _cannot_ focus in open office environments and I'm not even sure why so I can't curb the problem. I'm not sure if it's a feeling of being watched, or a feeling of uncertainty in my surroundings... or even if it's the possibility of being surprised/interrupted from behind. Eitherway, I'm trying to push the idea of working from home- people aren't very receptive but after I've shown them I'm a good worker they'll be surprised when I finally get my wish and suddenly become significantly more productive. the alternative of course is smaller offices for 3-6 people, I've only seen that in one place in my professional life and that was Nokia R&D in Helsinki where isolating teams was necessary for security reasons. That was actually really nice.
- bbcbasic 10y agoI work in an office of 12 and it's a reasonable number.
- gumby 10y agoLooks like this was voted down so I upvoted. It's a germane datapoint.
- bambax 10y ago> the alternative of course is smaller offices for 3-6 people (...) That was actually really nice. Really? In my experience a small office with more than 1 person is worse than a complete open space (while an office for 1, with a door, is the best). To be productive I need to not see and not be seen; I feel more anonymous in a big loud crowd than in a small office with 2 other people who can still speak to one another or to me, or on the phone, etc.
- dasmoth 10y agoIt can depend on the situation. There have been a few small offices where I've felt moderately productive, but looking back they've tended to be filled with people from across the organisation, working on different things. The "team office" which I know is the ideal for some is a recipe for high visibility and unhelpful pressure.
- djfergus 10y agoCost wise, seems feasible on a sqft basis (assuming a small office - cubicle equivalent). And I don't imagine the fit-out would be significant on a long lease. Average for bay area is $40/sqft/yr https://42floors.com/office-space/us/ca/san-francisco-bay-area https://42floors.com/office-space/us/ca/san-francisco-bay-ar... Office size data (small office ~100 sqft) https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-average-square-footage-of-office-space-reserved-per-person-for-a-technology-startup https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-average-square-footage-of-... CBRE will have more details with registration: https://researchgateway.cbre.com/PublicationListing.aspx?PUBID=1e65af9a-a5bb-48b7-825d-38795ef2897b https://researchgateway.cbre.com/PublicationListing.aspx?PUB...
- robin_hood_jr 10y agoIBM still has private offices for many (I hesitate to say most) employees working in the US. San Jose for a fact has private offices. Occasionally you'll see two people sharing an office, but even that is fine for the noise and distraction-free environment you're looking for.
- jkot 10y agoPrivate offices are common, but not in the Bay - It is a form of compensation. Cash/stock is preferred form here. To get other benefits (private office, remote) look at different place. - Office space is at premium, private offices are expensive. Again look somewhere else. - Startup culture is associated with open office. Large corporations are better with this :-( - 'Extremely unproductive' is not an argument. Managers believe that programmers are equivalent/interchangeable cogs. There is no such thing as 10x ;-) I would recommend: - Block visual distractions as much as possible, 3x30" screen in pivot mode should do. - Move into corner. - Invest into big closed studio headphones with amplifier. Not active noise cancellation, but passive which covers entire ear. I got DT 770 PRO, best investment I ever did. - Get ready for starting your own business and working remotely. I am afraid it is the only way :-(
- SyneRyder 10y agoAny reason why you recommend against active noise cancellation? My Bose QC25s are still my favorite purchase, combining both over-ear passive cancellation & active noise cancellation. I even use them when working solo, and was so freaked out when one pair broke that I bought a second backup pair - Bose replaced the broken pair free of charge though. [I realize the OP mentioned that headphones were not an option though.]
- kbar13 10y agoactive noise cancellation is extremely effective for ambient noise but not conversations, which are the main cause of distraction in an open plan office.
- jkot 10y agoI personally find active headphones uncomfortable. Large studio headphones are designed for long term use.
- loco5niner 10y agoThe reference was not to 'active headphones' (e.g. for running), but to 'active noise cancellation' where an "inverse wave" (inverse to incoming noise) is played to cancel out sounds. These can be in both in-ear or over-the-ear form.
- codyb 10y agoI haven't sat at my desk in probably three or more weeks. I have great headphones but I prefer to work in silence if I can. Our workplace has plenty of offices and couchspaces and I just move around (sometimes because I get kicked out if rooms). Usually I'm with one or sometimes two or three other engineers. I enjoy that. I had an office once at a small place but it had no windows. It eventually drove me a bit crazy, as did working from home one summer where I had windows but no AC and I'd stick to my chair half the time. It's tough to find perfection but a mixture of commons plus private works well for me and may be what you need.
- dasmoth 10y agoMoving around is good Being kicked out of a room just as something is about to click is... not so good.
- kayoone 10y agoI have worked from home for 5 years and now work in an open plan office and enjoy it more honestly. I don't really feel less productive and i certianly feel less alone when i can chat to coworkers from time to time or discuss development question with my coworkers. I have good headphones when i need to focus or can also go to one of the meeting rooms or work from home if i really want to work uninterrupted for a longer stretch. I would definetly consider myself an introvert but i still enjoy being around other people from time to time. I think the long time working from home alone really hurt me in some ways in retrospect.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- kbar13 10y agoi'd be happy with a compromise: an office with just my immediate team members/people I work with regularly. If there are conversations, they will most likely be relevant. It'll also probably help with bonding. The worst part about open office: meeting rooms next to desks. I used to sit in an area with lots of meeting rooms and people talking on their way in/out of these meetings constantly was killer.
- arjunvpaul 10y agoWhy is wearing headphones not an option? Just curious.
- colechristensen 10y agoHaving some of the noise diminished by putting things on your ears != being alone. I'm just slightly physically uncomfortable in a large room filled with people, especially when I'm trying to focus on something. Especially when that's how I'd spend 2/3 of my waking life on work days. It's not to the level anywhere near some sort of phobia, it's just that when I'm in a big room with a lot of activity a portion of my brain is dedicated to concern for what's happening in the room. In an office, it's a space that I own and control. That level of comfort leads to more productivity and happiness. I don't want to be alone in an office all the time or even necessarily most of the time, but without that cave to return to when I need to focus, life is just plain worse.
- joezydeco 10y agoThere is also a subset of coworkers that do not understand the (headphones == leave me alone) signal. They'll come up behind you and tap you on the shoulder or, even worse, stand quietly just outside your visual focus until you break concentration and acknowledge them. Short of police tape across your cubicle door, nothing will send them the message. Does anyone else remember WKRP in Cincinnati? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkP9DKnOgn0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkP9DKnOgn0
- jimcsharp 10y agoHeadphones and earbuds are very painful for me after like 10 minutes. This is at a very low volume - there's just something about putting sound that close to my ear that hurts.
- loco5niner 10y agoSimilar here. After 10 minutes of headphone use, my tinnitus flares up, after a few hours, it hurts.
- arjunvpaul 10y agoWhy is wearing headphones not an option?
- moron4hire 10y agoOne possible reason: long-term exposure, even at low volumes, damages hearing.
- loco5niner 10y agoHearing damage. In order to drown out conversation, you have to play at too loud a volume.
- chrisseaton 10y agoYes I think Oracle Labs in the bay area has private offices for all developers. I even had one as an intern - with a view of Mount Diablo.
- jcmack 10y agoOracle Santa Clara and HQ all have private offices. It was really hard to leave my office. :(
- cyberferret 10y agoI cannot believe that still in this day and age, there is still a belief that open offices are better for developers?? Joel Spolsky tried to set the record straight, what, about 15 years ago? For the record, I don't normally listen to music when programming - I like a quiet environment. Interruptions are a bane. I have a private office, but as soon as anyone enters - even quietly, my flow state is broken. Plus on the flipside, while waiting for a long compile or download, I will grab one of the guitars sitting in my office and randomly jam away. I am sure in an open office environment, my co-workers would not appreciate that either.
- pionar 10y agoI have a private office (I work from home), but there's a difference between open offices where EVERYONE in the company is out in one big area and a separate space for each team. That's how a team I used to be on was arranged. There was the outside office, then what was termed the "developer cave", which was a large section of the office (closed off, with a door!) that housed 5 developers and 3 QA people all working on the same product. That's better than private offices (it encourages collaboration), but, doesn't have most of the downsides of a traditional "open office" (having to overhear the sales guy making calls all day, and people don't just pop in to ask a question. A room full of working developers is intimidating. Best to send an email instead.). On top of that, we had separate booths (with doors) that were kind of like phone booths, just enough space for two people, that developers would snag if they needed to focus.
- bryondowd 10y agoMy last job had a similar setup, with a developer cave (complete with dim lighting to disorient visitors) with 5 devs working on the same system. There were long stretches of quiet time to focus, and a little bit of idle bullshitting with the opportunity to shoot questions across the room when it would be faster than looking things up yourself or going through email. Now I'm sitting in a cube farm, sharing a cube, and listening to administrative assistants chatter about their children and their health issues and what they had for lunch all day long. I started coming in hours late and leaving hours late just so I have a few hours of peace at the end of the day to get some focused work done. And that's on an 'easier to ask forgiveness than permission' basis. I'd kill for a setup like the top comment by shostack, but just getting back to a cave would be lovely.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- shostack 10y agoThis is my office [1]. Pardon the crappy photo quality. All employees at SmugMug get a space like this with a door. They aren't totally enclosed offices per se...the front wall is a metal mesh covered with giant gorgeous photos on the outside, and they stop about 1' short of the ceiling, so they might not meet your headphone requirement, but in general things are quiet. One of my walls has whiteboard paint covering it. Throughout the day I switch between my chaise and the double monitors on my desk when I need the screen space. But there's nothing quite like kicking back with my shoes off after lunch with a cappuccino and knocking things off my list. I don't think I could ever work in an open floor plan after this. I usually don't close my door, but if I did I'd have zero visual distractions. To the contrary, thanks to a helpful decorating budget all new employees receive, you can make your own zen space (textured wood print wallpaper is both inexpensive and amazing). We have several open spaces of varying sizes with couches and such if that is what you'd prefer. Convertible standing desks are also available for anyone that wants one. This is the first company I've worked at that seems to get that different people have different work environment needs, and that focused, complex work often is best done in a private space you can be comfortable in. Hope it's alright to plug given the nature of the post but...we're hiring [2]. [1] https://goo.gl/photos/caP41XiMfUuFNK1o8 https://goo.gl/photos/caP41XiMfUuFNK1o8 [2] http://jobs.smugmug.com/ http://jobs.smugmug.com/
- beefman 10y agoWhere are you located? I don't see your address anywhere on your site.
- mightykan 10y agoI believe they’re located in Mountain View. The only way I was able to find this was to look at their Terms of Service, however, so it might not be accurate.
- shostack 10y agoYeah, I can see where people might want to know where they'd actually be working. We're in the middle of overhauling our jobs site to share a lot more info and HR confirmed this info is already in the plan :) Anyway, we're a quick walk from the Mountain View Caltrain stop on Evelyn[1]. We also have a parking lot and bike storage. [1] https://goo.gl/maps/VTTWkhRUs3P2 https://goo.gl/maps/VTTWkhRUs3P2
- draw_down 10y agoPretty rare these days I would say. I remember having them early in my career, 2004-2006 or so. Now I guess we're all Agile, or something. It makes the Agileness more better if you can hear your coworkers eating and talking about the game, I guess. Most places I've worked since, even the CEO didn't have an office so it was more of an egalitarian thing. (By that I mean the false egalitarianism that's prevalent nowadays where your boss is your friend, not just your boss.) When they don't do that, and it's a situation where execs get one and peons don't, that's pretty tacky and indicative of a company that will be shitty in other ways IMO.
- chrisweekly 10y ago>"... headphones isn't an option." Based on my experience in a very similar situation I'd recommend finding a way to overcome any barriers to using headphones, then using a pair w/ good noise-cancelling, and listening to brain.fm. It's remarkably effective.
- coldcode 10y agoI work at a very large company F50 not in the Bay area and the only people with offices are managers of various kinds. Our building has cubes of various quality (mine is closet sized) but our other buildings are mostly open plan with desk height walls. As a programmer the last time I had an office to myself was during the dotcom era. Sadly it's not just in the Bay.
- nathan_f77 10y agoAt a previous company, we had an office where they built little rooms for phone calls. Some had desks with chairs, and there was one with beanbags. I ended up spending some time in those, unless someone needed to make a call (not too often). I did get tired of the open plan office after a while, but mostly it was just nice to have some variety and move around.
- todd8 10y agoMaybe I am just imaging it, but for me, background music interferes with deep sustained thinking. I don't understand how people think playing music in the background at home or at work does anything positive for intellectual activity. Open offices have a similar effect on me, and not infrequently I've been exposed to both at the same time.
- SamReidHughes 10y agoA fun fact is that Jon von Neumann felt otherwise. From Wikipedia: Von Neumann did some of his best work in noisy, chaotic environments, and once admonished his wife for preparing a quiet study for him to work in. He never used it, preferring the couple's living room with its television playing loudly.
- todd8 10y agoYeah, but what did he know about intellectual activity! :)
- loco5niner 10y agoDifferent strokes for different folks
- cema 10y agoInteresting to see so many different opinions, and experiences. Apparently it is to a large extent a personal matter. My experience is that I seem to prefer a mix of available options. For example, my current office is about 30 miles away from home, and I sometimes work form home and like it, but then I go to the office and like it too. After several days of working in the same environment I welcome the change of scenery. Also, for the first time in many years, I got a private office, having moved there from a cubicle. It may be a status symbol more than a convenience, but it is a convenience for sure. No problem mixing private and public space as long as I have a choice of both.