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Maybe they think they can get away with because their only competition (MacOS) is heading in the same direction. Both OSs peaked somewhere around 2010. Since th

Maybe they think they can get away with because their only competition (MacOS) is heading in the same direction. Both OSs peaked somewhere around 2010. Since then, MS has focussed on using their desktop OS to collect data and Apple has been focussed on using their desktop OS to prop up their mobile OS.

givinguflac 10y ago
Using both reasonably frequently, I really don't see how you think they're moving in the same direction. MacOS still leaves the user in full control if they wish, while Windows forces ridiculous hoops to disable things that should be a stock setting using regedit which most users would and should never touch. Outside of "they both have voice assistants now" I see no similarities. And I'm certain you will never see ads in MacOS as part of the OS "features."
- bobbyi_settv 10y ago
  I think you misread my post. In both cases, the user experience of the desktop OS has gotten worse because all of the changes the parent company have made to the OS have been to support their larger business objectives at the expensive of this specific product. In MS's case they've been focussed on data collection. In Apple's case, they've been focused on cross-selling their mobile devices. As someone who doesn't want MS collecting my data and has no intention of ever going back to Apple's mobile devices, I would prefer either product as it existed circa 2010. I'm not sure how that led you to the conclusion that I think Apple will add ads to their OS, but that definitely isn't what I meant to imply.
  - Razengan 10y ago
    You are implying that Apple added absolutely nothing to macOS since 2010 that wasn't useful to desktop-/laptop-only users, or that there've been glaring omissions of functionality since 2010 which they haven't addressed or aren't about to address, without giving any examples of either. Heck, they just announced a new and modern filesystem! Coming next year! [1] What about systemwide support for Wide Color? [2] It's a free OS, it gets major updates every year and minor ones every few months. Even if the spotlighted features of every release (like Siri this year) aren't exactly appealing to you personally, what most people seem to overlook — odd for a place like Hacker News — is that every release of macOS also includes many new native APIs for developers. Not to mention subtle new accessibility features, which most of us may hopefully never need but it's nice to know they are there for the people who do need them. [1] http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/06/a-zfs-developers-analysis-of-the-good-and-bad-in-apples-new-apfs-file-system/ http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/06/a-zfs-developers-analys... [2] https://webkit.org/blog/6682/improving-color-on-the-web/ https://webkit.org/blog/6682/improving-color-on-the-web/
    - bobbyi_settv 10y ago
      I think your post demonstrates my point. My user experience on the Mac has not been improved by a file system that hasn't been released yet. It hasn't been improved by developer APIs or obscure accessibility features I don't have a use for. Perhaps I'm in the minority and the vast majority of Mac users are having a better experience today because they use those developer APIs and write CSS that needs obscure colors and use that unreleased file system daily, but I don't think that's the case.
      - Razengan 10y ago
        The APIs enable developers to make better apps for you and other users; they are obviously not meant to be showcased as an end user feature. However, if you have obscure requirements that aren't being met by the OS or third-parties, you can just make your own apps, for free. You are being adamantly hyperbolic about stagnation and "mobile-ification" but you still haven't given any example of how the "desktop OS has gotten worse because they've been focused on cross-selling their mobile devices." Personally I started using Macs in 2011, with Lion, after a lifetime of Windows (and before that, DOS) and every new release since then has only made the Mac experience better for me; The App Store model is a boon for desktop OSes (although the current implementation definitely needs improvement) and you can still get apps from other sources. Natural Scrolling is amazing, and really does feel natural. I like all alerts being grouped up in one place in the Notification Center. Pressing F4 for the Launchpad is a quick alternative to opening the Applications folder, and usually quicker than Spotlight. I like iMessage and FaceTime and they don't require an iPhone or iPad. Safari always feels snappier than Chrome. 3D/Force-Touch to preview links without opening a new page is very handy, especially on places like Reddit and HN. The OS is still customizable in all the ways I care about, and nicely extended by apps like TinkerTool [1] and Path Finder [2]. ... I really can't think of any examples where I felt macOS had gotten "worse" than a preceding release because of features borrowed from iOS, or that Apple had betrayed me and made me want to go back to Windows. [1] https://www.bresink.com/osx/TinkerTool.html https://www.bresink.com/osx/TinkerTool.html [2] http://www.cocoatech.com/pathfinder/ http://www.cocoatech.com/pathfinder/
- qyv 10y ago
  I have been on Macbook Pro's since 10.5 and I completely agree with GP. OSX peaked at Snow Leopard, there is no question in my mind. It seems like nearly every new feature in each OSX release now is something to do with iOS. OSX's software quality has been trending downwards for a while now, I don't think I am alone in that opinion. MBP hardware used to make the software issues less irritating, but even that is starting to feel hopelessly dated. OSX has lost a lot of its appeal IMO, I am replacing my MBP this month with an windows machine.
- 0x09 10y ago
  > I'm certain you will never see ads in MacOS as part of the OS "features." How certain? http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220090265214%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20090265214&RS=DN/20090265214 http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=H...
  - Razengan 10y ago
    Uh oh... Please please let this be a defensive patent to use against other OSes which include ads, and not an indication of a future macOS/iOS to come.. This MAY make sense in tvOS, to present ads during a "channel" app while "disabling certain operating system features", but I really hope Apple of all companies aren't that greedy for extra revenue to include ads in macOS/iOS.. The patent filing is also dated 2008, and nothing's happened so far.
RandomOpinion 10y ago
>MS has focussed on using their desktop OS to collect data If by "collect data" you mean the OS telemetry that's used to detect and report bugs, that's right. Thurott even mentions the telemetry in the article. If you turned off Windows telemetry, MS has no way of knowing about any bugs you encountered. Those who don't vote, don't get to complain about the consequences of not voting.

givinguflac 10y ago

Using both reasonably frequently, I really don't see how you think they're moving in the same direction. MacOS still leaves the user in full control if they wish, while Windows forces ridiculous hoops to disable things that should be a stock setting using regedit which most users would and should never touch. Outside of "they both have voice assistants now" I see no similarities. And I'm certain you will never see ads in MacOS as part of the OS "features."

bobbyi_settv 10y ago
I think you misread my post. In both cases, the user experience of the desktop OS has gotten worse because all of the changes the parent company have made to the OS have been to support their larger business objectives at the expensive of this specific product. In MS's case they've been focussed on data collection. In Apple's case, they've been focused on cross-selling their mobile devices. As someone who doesn't want MS collecting my data and has no intention of ever going back to Apple's mobile devices, I would prefer either product as it existed circa 2010. I'm not sure how that led you to the conclusion that I think Apple will add ads to their OS, but that definitely isn't what I meant to imply.
- Razengan 10y ago
  You are implying that Apple added absolutely nothing to macOS since 2010 that wasn't useful to desktop-/laptop-only users, or that there've been glaring omissions of functionality since 2010 which they haven't addressed or aren't about to address, without giving any examples of either. Heck, they just announced a new and modern filesystem! Coming next year! [1] What about systemwide support for Wide Color? [2] It's a free OS, it gets major updates every year and minor ones every few months. Even if the spotlighted features of every release (like Siri this year) aren't exactly appealing to you personally, what most people seem to overlook — odd for a place like Hacker News — is that every release of macOS also includes many new native APIs for developers. Not to mention subtle new accessibility features, which most of us may hopefully never need but it's nice to know they are there for the people who do need them. [1] http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/06/a-zfs-developers-analysis-of-the-good-and-bad-in-apples-new-apfs-file-system/ http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/06/a-zfs-developers-analys... [2] https://webkit.org/blog/6682/improving-color-on-the-web/ https://webkit.org/blog/6682/improving-color-on-the-web/
  - bobbyi_settv 10y ago
    I think your post demonstrates my point. My user experience on the Mac has not been improved by a file system that hasn't been released yet. It hasn't been improved by developer APIs or obscure accessibility features I don't have a use for. Perhaps I'm in the minority and the vast majority of Mac users are having a better experience today because they use those developer APIs and write CSS that needs obscure colors and use that unreleased file system daily, but I don't think that's the case.
    - Razengan 10y ago
      The APIs enable developers to make better apps for you and other users; they are obviously not meant to be showcased as an end user feature. However, if you have obscure requirements that aren't being met by the OS or third-parties, you can just make your own apps, for free. You are being adamantly hyperbolic about stagnation and "mobile-ification" but you still haven't given any example of how the "desktop OS has gotten worse because they've been focused on cross-selling their mobile devices." Personally I started using Macs in 2011, with Lion, after a lifetime of Windows (and before that, DOS) and every new release since then has only made the Mac experience better for me; The App Store model is a boon for desktop OSes (although the current implementation definitely needs improvement) and you can still get apps from other sources. Natural Scrolling is amazing, and really does feel natural. I like all alerts being grouped up in one place in the Notification Center. Pressing F4 for the Launchpad is a quick alternative to opening the Applications folder, and usually quicker than Spotlight. I like iMessage and FaceTime and they don't require an iPhone or iPad. Safari always feels snappier than Chrome. 3D/Force-Touch to preview links without opening a new page is very handy, especially on places like Reddit and HN. The OS is still customizable in all the ways I care about, and nicely extended by apps like TinkerTool [1] and Path Finder [2]. ... I really can't think of any examples where I felt macOS had gotten "worse" than a preceding release because of features borrowed from iOS, or that Apple had betrayed me and made me want to go back to Windows. [1] https://www.bresink.com/osx/TinkerTool.html https://www.bresink.com/osx/TinkerTool.html [2] http://www.cocoatech.com/pathfinder/ http://www.cocoatech.com/pathfinder/
qyv 10y ago
I have been on Macbook Pro's since 10.5 and I completely agree with GP. OSX peaked at Snow Leopard, there is no question in my mind. It seems like nearly every new feature in each OSX release now is something to do with iOS. OSX's software quality has been trending downwards for a while now, I don't think I am alone in that opinion. MBP hardware used to make the software issues less irritating, but even that is starting to feel hopelessly dated. OSX has lost a lot of its appeal IMO, I am replacing my MBP this month with an windows machine.
0x09 10y ago
> I'm certain you will never see ads in MacOS as part of the OS "features." How certain? http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220090265214%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20090265214&RS=DN/20090265214 http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=H...
- Razengan 10y ago
  Uh oh... Please please let this be a defensive patent to use against other OSes which include ads, and not an indication of a future macOS/iOS to come.. This MAY make sense in tvOS, to present ads during a "channel" app while "disabling certain operating system features", but I really hope Apple of all companies aren't that greedy for extra revenue to include ads in macOS/iOS.. The patent filing is also dated 2008, and nothing's happened so far.

RandomOpinion 10y ago

>MS has focussed on using their desktop OS to collect data If by "collect data" you mean the OS telemetry that's used to detect and report bugs, that's right. Thurott even mentions the telemetry in the article. If you turned off Windows telemetry, MS has no way of knowing about any bugs you encountered. Those who don't vote, don't get to complain about the consequences of not voting.