7 ms·
Can a molecule that makes mice smarter heal a human brain?
- zafka 10y agoI am curious. Does anyone know someone who has tried this on themselves yet?
- RankingMember 10y agoSome "life extension" site forum had a group buy for the stuff apparently. People posted some of their results: http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/68589-isrib-group-buy-new/ http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/68589-isrib-group-buy-n... One quote: So far I'm very much surprised about the effect on the overall cognition. My personal experiences are, that ISRIB definitely has it's effects on memory consolidation, but in my experience it doesn't only influence the long term memory formation (as JPC suggested), but the short term memory as well. It mens practicaly, that while reading a text, it is way much easier to remember the words, expression, and contexts as well (after 1-2 days). For instance currently I'm studying medicine basics again (I will enter a residency program soon), the subjects floaded with unique expressions related to molecular biology, basics of anatomy etc.. meaning, they are not very easy to link while memorizing even for a medical professional (they are meant to be boring..), and so far, after two days (meaning the text I read on friday) I can still remember a lot sharper on the names of for example cellular proteins, special basic physiological mechanisms than before, it is very obvious to me. I have to add, that I would value my memory above the average (as far as I can asses), but lately I somehow got slower by memorisation (I think it is an aging effect, and that was one of the reasons, why I started to search for some chemical hacking of my brain..).
- AstralStorm 10y agoSample size of 1, no blinding, no verification of the substance received. Quite worthless. Placebo effect is strong enough children recognised as more intelligent by chance do act and measure smarter.
- lallysingh 10y agoHe's studying medicine, not statistics :-)
- beambot 10y agoMany major innovations occurred from individuals experimenting on themselves. In fact, it's one of the few ways to make progress when you have overbearing regulatory agencies. You should be glad that many enterprising "sample sizes of one" are willing to become anecdata for everyone else. They push the boundaries so that maybe, just maybe, we get the benefits of these advances within our lifetimes rather than after many generations of careful study (ie. too late for me). Carry on, intrepid experimenters! Some of us appreciate your reckless abandon.
- goatlover 10y agoBut we can't know from a sample of one whether the placebo effect was in play, or whether the individual's response was atypical.
- beambot 10y agoHow do you think humanity learned about new medicines before clinical studies? A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step; or in this case, a single experimenter.
- crooked-v 10y agoThis is also how people learn about the dangers of fan death, how carrots help improve your night vision, and that bulls are enraged by the color red.
- beambot 10y agoThose examples seem super consequential compared to all the medical advancements that we got... I would gladly keep the medical advancements in exchange for turning off fans inside, eating more carrots, and avoiding red around bulls (or just avoiding bulls altogether; they stink). Thankfully, humans like to try new things and then apply cause-and-effect reasoning to create good, new hypothesis (based by early citizen science evidence). I suspect that trait has massive benefits in our evolution. I hope people don't get put off by calls for "rigorous science" and keep experimenting on their own... and that the scientific establishment latches on to good ideas to do more rigorous studies! [The two aren't mutually exclusive! It's not zero sum!]
- cypherpunks01 10y agoOne person claimed to have had it synthesized and taken it awhile back (linked from the article) http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/68589-isrib-group-buy-new/ http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/68589-isrib-group-buy-n...
- applecore 10y agoHow does this now-patented "ISRIB" molecule compare to Leonard Guarente's research[1][2] on nicotinamide riboside and pterostilbene supplementation? [1]: http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/08/is-elysium-healths-basis-the-fountain-of-youth.html http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/08/is-elysium-healths-basi... [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12345526 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12345526
- KlaudijLikon 10y agoLet's just compare it to NR: C22H24Cl2N2O4 vs C11H15N2O5+ Hmm... More C, more H, the same amount of N and just a bit less O (but who cares, right? O is everywhere). But it has extra Cl! ISRIB has extra Cl!! NR has no Cl! I'm definitely going with the first one!! Easy pick.
- iconjack 10y agoIsn't Flowers for Algernon required 7th-grade reading anymore? This isn't going to end well, people.
- M_Grey 10y agoThat was the first thing that leaped to mind for me as well, specifically the line, "P.S. please if you get a chanse put some flowrs on Algernons grave in the bak yard." Kidding aside though, anytime the question of, "Does this thing in mice do this other thing in humans?" the answer is always, "Who the hell knows until after the study is complete?!"
- SamBam 10y agoI was thinking Understand in Ted Chaing's Stories of Your Life and Others. Just the same set-up: new drug that can heal a person's damaged brain, turns him into a super-intelligent psycho.
- asab 10y agoI'll just leave this here: http://www.metafilter.com/98974/This-isnt-your-grandfathers-science-fiction http://www.metafilter.com/98974/This-isnt-your-grandfathers-... Although it's important to point out that he wasn't psycho, and his preferences don't seem directly shaped by the treatment..
- ambientdarkness 10y agoI'm curious what you mean by "isn't going to end well." I don't want to spoil the book. Anyone who hasn't read it really should as it's an excellent read. But, at any rate, the Charlie character starts off as mentally very simple and enjoys life, then after attaining intelligence quickly achieves many things most people wont in their whole lifetimes, though isn't super happy while doing these and insults those he feels are less intelligent, though eventually grows emotionally through them, then he returns to being simple and happy. Really this is just everyones' life, starting as a baby and returning to dementia as an adult, for Charlie it's just flat and then a sudden spike rather than a gradual curve. Curious why you think it wont end well. I mean in the end everyone dies so it's true if you're very much against that, nothing ends well. The real point of the book I thought was we shouldn't view the super intelligent or super simple as better or worse because we are all both better and worse cosmically. So ultimately everyone should stop being condescending generally.
- AstralStorm 10y agoAn interesting new approach. Let's wait for the studies to follow. He is mistaken about "nothing" in case of brain trauma. Racetams have been shown to be mildly effective.
- SubiculumCode 10y agoThe article's title on statnews.com bugs me, I admit I have not investigated this case, but... I suspect it wasn't that graying old man that discovered that molecule, but that man's brilliant but underpaid post-doc that discovered that molecule.
- zafka 10y agoWalter (Main Investigator), gave credit to Carmela Sidrauski his Post-Doc. He said if it were not for her, they would not have looked at it. The chemical itself was kicked out by a massive screening of small molecules, but originally not looked at because it was not very soluble.
- criddell 10y agoWhat's the difference between healing a brain and just generally improving a brain?
- blacksmith_tb 10y agoA semi-facetious question, perhaps? Healing at least is a return to a baseline, "generally improving" is more subjective. I would tend to expect that changing any system as complex as the human brain would have the potential for improving some things, while impairing others. Not that it would impossible to find a compound that only produced changes we considered positive, without any we considered negative - just unlikely.
- criddell 10y agoNot facetious at all. If I take that molecule and find that I can acquire perfect pitch as an adult or easily learn a new language, was my brain "damaged" prior to taking the drug?
- blacksmith_tb 10y agoDifferent, clearly, but the 'damage' (or 'healing') would be subjective, wouldn't it? Since most of our organ systems return to the mean, I still suspect it's more likely that taking it when you have no reason to would be more likely to cause negative changes, rather than positive ones - but brave people are apparently willing to make that gamble.
- KlaudijLikon 10y agoThe fact that you can patent a molecule blows my mind.
- leemailll 10y agoThis is how big pharma works.
- phkahler 10y agoYep, isolate lovastatin from red yeast, patent it, market it, and then try to make the supplements take it out since they're not FDA regulated. BTW, red yeast rice did wonders for my blood work.
- 1_listerine_pls 10y agoYeah, fuck that.
- unimpressive 10y agoFTA: "To Walter’s dismay, some are buying ISRIB online and ingesting it, long before it’s been extensively tested... Some outside scientists remain skeptical. They warn that interfering with vital cellular mechanisms, as ISRIB seems to do, could lead to a host of dangerous side effects. They caution that it will be years, or possibly decades, before it’s ready for testing in humans." Cause, meet effect.
- quickmouse 10y agoWhat if the drug only makes mice be more nervous or active and that's why they found the submerged platform more quickly?