9 ms·
Visual Studio 2010 released
- thinkbohemian 17y agoUp voted, cause its news to me. I would like a review of .NET 4.0 or an overview of new features in VS 2010 sometime.
- dschobel 17y agoF# is a first class language alongside C# and VB. Major new threading framework which let's you write things like: Parallel.For(0, 100, delegate(int i) { doWork(i); } ); and to parallelize your LINQ queries with the AsParallel() method: data.AsParallel().Sum(); //does exactly what you think That's just the stuff which I'm most excited about. See http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms171868(VS.100).aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms171868(VS.100).asp... for a more comprehensive list.
- loikujhygthj 17y ago>//does exactly what you think Bring the database to a grinding halt when it tries to service 1000s of request for different rows in the same table at the same time in parallel rather than just access each line in order and sum them?
- Maascamp 17y agoIs all the data you ever operate on stored in the database? Do you never load things into memory?
- dschobel 17y agoplinq only parallelizes in-memory operations and delegates the interaction with the data-store to whatever adapter you're using. the AsParallel() should make it clear that you're taking an existing data-set (retrieved in whatever manner you like) and signifying you'd like to execute parallel operations on it.
- MichaelGG 17y agoAlso today, F# 2.0 has shipped for 3.5/VS2008 as well. So you don't need to use .NET 4 and 2010 to get it.
- nopassrecover 17y agoTo get you by: dynamic (runtime) types, optional parameters, named parameters, Covariant and contravariant generic type parameters.
- torial 17y agoOne of the things I'm looking forward to is the managed wrapper for memory mapped files.
- StrawberryFrog 17y agoI would like a review of .NET 4.0 or an overview of new features in VS 2010 sometime. This is far to large a topic for a HN comment. Here is a link to some links to get you started: http://hnsl.mn/cNpxVs http://hnsl.mn/cNpxVs
- wvenable 17y agoCan anyone describe how the Visual Studio 2010 IDE compares to 2008 IDE performance-wise?
- hp1995acer 17y agoVS 2010 is slower than VS 2008. That said, with a $900 machine, ( quad i5, 4 gig ram ) with a last gen video card the most recent RC runs just as fast as VS 2008 did.
- unhappyms 17y agoVery true. A lot of 2010 perf hit is because of WPF. Real hardware and a good video card is required. I never dreamed that a decent video card would be required for a text editor but it is.
- heresy 17y agoHardware acceleration is the Microsoft crutch for shitty perf :) Not that I'm bitter, stuck in VS2008 all day on a circa 2003 machine, stingy ass employers. They can afford to pay 100k+ for engineers, but not to give them decent machines..
- ewanmcteagle 17y agoI find it to be about the same in RC in terms of speed for most things. But memory use is lower and the delays when loading things seem to be shorter.
- kulkarnic 17y agoWell, from the past few months of use: * C# (and possibly others) compile faster * Startup slower than VS 9 (marginal) * Human perf is higher due to better auto-complete etc Bottomline, if you're happy with VS 9 on your machine (you don't find it too slow), VS 10 is going to be similar.
- WorkerBee 17y agoThe VS2010 UI may look similar to 2008, but it's quite different in implementation - the VS2010 UI is all in WPF. There are various benefits from this, but I don't think that speed will be among them.
- suraj 17y agoHmmm, express editions are not yet updated.
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]
- euroclydon 17y agoI know named and optional parameters are in there for C#.
- rbanffy 17y agoDo you need to get a whole IDE just for a compiler that supports a given runtime feature?
- koenigdavidmj 17y agoProbably doesn't support fancy stuff like that just yet, but I've found SharpDevelop ( http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/ http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/ ) quite nice.
- euroclydon 17y agoGood question. Are you asking if you can target .NET 4.0 with VS 2008? I don't know, my experience has been that it's like swimming upstream to try to separate the IDE, .NET Framework version, and language version -- best to just get them all.
- WorkerBee 17y agoAre you asking if you can target .NET 4.0 with VS 2008? Highly unlikely. However, VS2010 will give you a choice of Runtime versions from 4 downwards. VS2008 will give you a choice of Runtime versions from 3.5 downwards.
- Quiark 17y agoC# is compiled using msbuild which is distributed with the .NET framework. So you don't need any VS at all to compile .csproj
- ben_straub 17y agoNope. MSBUILD and all the new compilers ship with the Windows 7.1 SDK: http://blogs.msdn.com/windowssdk/archive/2010/04/07/coming-soon-win-sdk-for-windows-7-and-net-4.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/windowssdk/archive/2010/04/07/coming-s...
- javery 17y agoHaving used Visual Studio for 10 years and even written a book on it I can say I am totally tired of this huge and bloated IDE and can't wait until I am done with .NET work or MonoDevelop is good enough to switch. (it's getting close)
- alexro 17y agoWhy can't you remove all unnecessary components from the IDE? For me VS 2008 with Resharper makes no problems at all on my 4GB Ram desktop with loads of other crap running in parallel.
- alexro 17y agoI even start 2-3 copies of the IDE sometimes when doing work on several projects. EDIT: wanted to ADD and didn't notice I was replying to myself
- rbanffy 17y agoYou can always delete a post.
- rbanffy 17y agoBecause "bloated" is still bloated, regardless of how much memory and processing speed you have at your disposal. It's much like a 200 Kg fat man driving a bus. He is still fat. That said, I once thought Emacs was bloated. Now, it's quite nimble compared to other programming tools.
- bad_user 17y agoA 200kg fat man can drive a bus just fine ;) On Emacs ... you still have to pay attention to the loaded extensions, and if you've got dozens of them (especially the Jdee extension, with all the dependencies) it can be as bloated as a full IDE (and it shows in startup times).
- 17y ago
- keltex 17y agoDoes anybody know when this will be available for download in MSDN subscriptions?
- d2viant 17y ago10AM Pacific
- Andox 17y agoIs it available at MSDN subscription downloads yet?
- gjm11 17y ago"A powerful IDE that ensures quality code", they say. Now that would be worth paying money for. If it were possible. Which it isn't.
- dschobel 17y agoThat's probably a reference to their new Code Contracts feature: Code Contracts provide a language-agnostic way to express coding assumptions in .NET programs. The contracts take the form of pre-conditions, post-conditions, and object invariants. Contracts act as checked documentation of your external and internal APIs. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/devlabs/dd491992.aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/devlabs/dd491992.aspx
- gjm11 17y agoJolly good, and I'm all in favour of better tool support for contracts, but that still can't "ensure quality code". (If whoever thought my comment needed downvoting would like to explain why -- because it's too obvious? because it's wrong? because there's nothing at all wrong with a major software vendor making totally false and unreasonable claims in their promotional materials? -- then I am, seriously although not literally, all ears.)
- queensnake 17y agoI didn't vote you down but, their claim is true at a micro level: I ensure that you give me this, whereupon you can be sure I'll give you that (or exceptions will be thrown). Plus, it's maybe a waste of scoffing to scoff at marketing hype. Poor Eiffel; its doom was to lead the way, and get picked apart by its children. Maybe if it hadn't looked like Pascal it might have done better. That said, I'm really surprised that design by contract hasn't been incorporated more widely, before now.
- rbanffy 17y ago> Jolly good, and I'm all in favour of better tool support for contracts, but that still can't "ensure quality code". It all depends on how you define "quality". And your down-votes could be attributed to the topic of the thread. Anything that casts doubt over Microsoft's One True Way is not welcome in certain message threads.
- dschobel 17y agofound some concrete info from Scott Guthrie's twitter feed (he's the VP of the MS Developer Division). ------------------------------- MSDN Subscribers & WebsiteSpark/BizSpark members can download VS 2010 Monday morning. The final release of VS 2010 & .NET 4 will be available ~10am PST. Free VS 2010 Express Editions + VS 2010 Trial editions will also be available for download. ------------------------------- http://twitter.com/scottgu http://twitter.com/scottgu
- joubert 17y agoThis sites switches to a mobile version when I browse there on my iPad. Maybe they haven't noticed the iPad release?
- zyb09 17y agobelieve or not, but the iPad isn't exactly the center of the universe. Especially not for Microsoft.
- joubert 17y agoAgreed, but my comment wasn't really aimed at dissing MS specifically for not not showing the regular web page when using an iPad, but rather the bigger point that mobile web sites, in today's age of powerful mobile devices, are just out of place. This is amplified by the iPad's 9.7" screen, but is equally true on an iPhone, and would hope on a Windows Mobile device as well.
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]
- perokreco 17y agoI disagree. If there were more/better mobile sites, you wouldn't have to use so many apps for things that are essentially website functionality. Plus they save money if you are not on an unlimited plan. I do hate when they scrape functionality, the way I can not add an attachment on a mobile version of gmail so I have to use the html one.
- joubert 17y agoMaybe I didn't express myself clearly. Apologies. What I mean is that mobile hardware (and mobile browsers) are getting better and better and so mobile websites are become passe. Decent mobile hardware & browsers can view full websites. Especially when your screen is 9.7".
- philwelch 17y ago
- hubb 17y agoultimate version available for a completely reasonable $12 000! http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/en-us/products/2010-editions/ultimate http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/en-us/products/2010-ed...
- heresy 17y agoI paid $400 to do a university paper this semester, great timing, signed up for DreamSpark and got VS2010 Professional for free ;)
- drawkbox 17y agoI was blown away by this. I have used all versions of VS and always worked at places that provided it or were gold partners or in the MSDN subscriptions. The cost of one copy is MORE than a MSDN subscription. Seriously what is up with the pricing? This is waaaaay too much for an IDE these days. I could buy both Maya and 3dsmax cheaper than that.
- ciniglio 17y agoDo you know if that price is there just for the anchoring effects (like the article discussed on hn last week)? Or do people actually pay $12k for vs?
- snprbob86 17y agoThat's MSRP -- No one actually pays that.... at least I hope not... However, Ultimate also includes a full MSDN license.
- chadaustin 17y agoC++0x! Time to use auto, move constructors, and shared_ptr! http://blogs.msdn.com/vcblog/archive/2010/04/06/c-0x-core-language-features-in-vc10-the-table.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/vcblog/archive/2010/04/06/c-0x-core-la... In fact, I've read existing STL-heavy C++ (returning std::vector<std::string> by value from functions, for example) will sometimes double in performance when compiling with a C++0x-capable compiler. I wish the new historical debugger worked for C++.
- scott_s 17y agogcc's equivalent table: http://gcc.gnu.org/projects/cxx0x.html http://gcc.gnu.org/projects/cxx0x.html
- dlsspy 17y agoIs it safe to assume they haven't updated their C support from the 21 year old standard to the 11 year old standard?
- ben_straub 17y agoThey support some of C99. LMGTFY: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/146381/visual-studio-support-for-new-c-c-standards http://stackoverflow.com/questions/146381/visual-studio-supp...
- dlsspy 17y agoThat question was asked in September 2008. One would hope some things could change by then. Supporting c89 is supporting some of c99. As pointed out from some of the things you linked to, not fully supporting c99 means there are places where bugs are silently introduced (see snprintf) and, more importantly, my code that compiles under various c99 compilers doesn't compile under the stuff Microsoft ships.
- huhtenberg 17y agoA powerful IDE that ensures quality code Isn't that awesome?
- beagle3 17y agoWhat's the cheap legal way to get it? Empower is going away May 21st; Any other options?
- endtime 17y agohttps://www.dreamspark.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductId=25 https://www.dreamspark.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductId=2..., if you're a student.
- viggity 17y agobizspark, if you're not a student. Say you've got a startup and you get a free MSDN subscription for three years, then pay $100. Its a great deal
- jf 17y ago... contact me if you're interested in BizSpark.
- bmm6o 17y agoI don't expect too many people on HN are doing SharePoint work, but if you are, you need to get VS 10 now. They've added templates for a variety of projects, and single-click compile/package/retract/deploy/debug of your project.
- heresy 17y agoMy condolences. I see SharePoint on a job posting and it goes into the trash immediately...
- kentosi 17y agoI know that this might sound like an attack, but it's not. I'm just asking out of curiosity: If you want to code in Java, there are highly sophisticated IDEs you can download and code in for free (eg - eclipse). The same for Mac (Xcode). When MS bought out .NET - was there any particular IDE or language development environment that was distributed for free to encourage (especially young) developers to code in it? Or did you always have to pay for Visual Studio? I'm not slagging off MS. I'm actually genuinely interested in getting my hands dirty with some Visual C# now that Windows 7 is shaping up to be quite a nice OS to use. It just seems odd that I have to pay someone so that I can write stuff for their OS.
- palish 17y agoWhat you want is Visual Studio Express. Or more precisely Visual C# 2010 Express. http://www.microsoft.com/express/downloads/ http://www.microsoft.com/express/downloads/
- rbanffy 17y agoOr Monodevelop, or SharpDevelop. Or just your favourite text editor coupled to the build system that comes with the .NET framework. You could even write an Emacs mode for this.
- rbanffy 17y ago> It just seems odd that I have to pay someone so that I can write stuff for their OS. Unless you develop on something non-Windows, you are already paying Microsoft in order write stuff for their OS. And that's their evil plan. It's sheer elegance in its simplicity ;-)
- adamsmith 17y agoDid they fix the bug that forces you to restart your app if you edit a function that has an anonymous/lambda/linq statement? This has been by far and away my #1 complaint for over three years (http://blog.adamsmith.cc/2007/03/complaints-about-visual-studio.html http://blog.adamsmith.cc/2007/03/complaints-about-visual-stu...). It is a huge deterrent from taking advantage of most of C#'s beauties.
- jpcx01 17y agoLooks cool. I'm a ruby dev on osx, but ill be installing the demo and playing around with this thing for sure. I really like the innovations in .net 4.0 for dynamic languages. Anyone know the status of ironruby within this release?
- xpaulbettsx 17y agoIronRuby just shipped 1.0 as of today, no VS integration though (yet...)
- macrael 17y agoWow. Coming from the Mac, I have never realized you had to pay, and possibly pay so very much, for dev tools on Windows. What kind of things does VS do that are exciting? I see they have a feature list a million miles long, but I can't get a sense of what VS does that eclipse or Xcode does not. Color me surprised.
- bruceboughton 17y agoSupports .NET projects ;) Seriously though, VS and Eclipse compare quite similarly on features. There are also free Express editions of most MS tools which cover perhaps 80% of the features so the price isn't really an issue.