5 ms·

Since the headline doesn't tell you: they will now be paid overtime. While sorta funny that they are and programmers aren't, in all practicality it will mostly

by tomjen3 10y ago

Since the headline doesn't tell you: they will now be paid overtime. While sorta funny that they are and programmers aren't, in all practicality it will mostly mean a few more will be hired, and that it will be more difficult to get more than 8 hours a day.

kevin_b_er 10y ago
It will be difficult to get more than 8 hours a day? OK. What's the point of more than 8 hours a day beforehand if you weren't paid?
- karmicthreat 10y ago
  They were probably paid, just regular time. Not 1.5x which is the normal standard for hourly work.
- qq66 10y ago
  Ah, I see the problem. A lot of people here don't know what "overtime" means. "Not getting overtime" doesn't mean you aren't paid for your 9th hour, you're just paid it at your regular wage. "Getting overtime" means getting a higher hourly wage for hours over 8/40.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- mdorazio 10y ago
  Because if you worked more than 8 hours before, you were still paid for the extra hours, just not overtime pay (1.5x the normal rate). Now, these workers won't be able to work those extra hours at all and it's unclear if they will be able to work additional shifts at other farms to make up the difference. This is similar to how state-mandated benefits for workers working a certain number of hours just led to managers at places like Walmart cutting shifts so that workers work just under the threshold. The net result is that workers are often worse off since they don't make as much as they did before and they don't get the benefits.
Naritai 10y ago
I assume you mean "in all practicality it will mostly mean a few more [workers] will be hired, and that it will be more difficult to get more [hours in your shift] than 8 hours a day." It's not clear to me, of course, why anybody who gets neither overtime nor equity would want longer than 8 hour shifts. Maybe because making other people richer is so much fun?
- qq66 10y ago
  No, it's to get more money... A ton of people who don't get overtime still want more hours.
- jahewson 10y ago
  You've misunderstood - the employees are already paid for overtime hours, but at the normal rate. Now that there will be a higher overtime rate, it can, in some cases make sense for businesses to hire more employees rather than to pay existing employees to work overtime. For employees who choose to work overtime, that's bad news.
- edoceo 10y ago
  It's because they need the money. If your job options are limited (few readers on HN know what this feels like) then any paid hours are better than none. A 10 hour shift means 10 hours of money. Now it will be 11 hours of money. Except your shift will be cut to 7h.
- wtvanhest 10y ago
  This may be a definition issue, so I'll give an example to explain it. If someone makes $10/hour and they work 8 hours, they make $80. If they work 10 hours at $10/hour here is the difference between overtime and not overtime: With Overtime - $10/hour X 8 hours + $10/hour X 1.5 (overtime pay) X 2 hours = $110 Without Overtime - $10/hour X 8 hours + $10/hour X1.0 (reg pay) X 2 hours = $100 The worker still gets paid for 10 hours, but because the first worker gets overtime, they make an extra $10. The reason overtime exists is to prevent managers from requiring workers to work 16 hour days etc.
- mucker 10y ago
  I'm actually appalled that so many people make comments just like you have and show an ignorance of basic economics and would also assume that everyone can _turn down_ work. Were you never a teenager? In fact these laws have made it prohibitive to higher local teen agers. Eventually, the trouble of hiring will overcome the initial capital outlay for robots (which can now even do berry picking). You are going to chase people out of work. Learn about the subjects you are discussing (farming and economics) before coming to wild conclusions.
Shivetya 10y ago
well the only real negative I see is that flexible schedules don't exist. there could be amply opportunity and employment options for 4x10; one group covers part of the week and another gets in 3x10. This would give all sides an advantage. So I don't agree with the eight hour value, I am more in to setting daily limits and overtime past certain periods measurable across a consecutive number of days I remember one IT position where we did 4x10, that was awesome for free time (long weekends) and pushed us around normal commute windows
Jtsummers 10y ago
The cap is improving, though, to now almost $48k/year (below that you're entitled to OT, before it was in the $23k range). This won't change things for most of us with established careers, but will help new hires and people outside the major tech areas that can't get as a high a salary. And another thing to consider: If you're negotiating your salary, you program in your lowest desired hourly rate. If you don't want to make less than $50/hour, and you expect many weeks at 50 hours/week instead of 40, set your pay to be > $2500/week. We're (in tech) often in a greater position to negotiate our salaries and benefits, we should exercise this.

by tomjen3 10y ago

kevin_b_er 10y ago

It will be difficult to get more than 8 hours a day? OK. What's the point of more than 8 hours a day beforehand if you weren't paid?

karmicthreat 10y ago
They were probably paid, just regular time. Not 1.5x which is the normal standard for hourly work.
qq66 10y ago
Ah, I see the problem. A lot of people here don't know what "overtime" means. "Not getting overtime" doesn't mean you aren't paid for your 9th hour, you're just paid it at your regular wage. "Getting overtime" means getting a higher hourly wage for hours over 8/40.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
mdorazio 10y ago
Because if you worked more than 8 hours before, you were still paid for the extra hours, just not overtime pay (1.5x the normal rate). Now, these workers won't be able to work those extra hours at all and it's unclear if they will be able to work additional shifts at other farms to make up the difference. This is similar to how state-mandated benefits for workers working a certain number of hours just led to managers at places like Walmart cutting shifts so that workers work just under the threshold. The net result is that workers are often worse off since they don't make as much as they did before and they don't get the benefits.

Naritai 10y ago

I assume you mean "in all practicality it will mostly mean a few more [workers] will be hired, and that it will be more difficult to get more [hours in your shift] than 8 hours a day." It's not clear to me, of course, why anybody who gets neither overtime nor equity would want longer than 8 hour shifts. Maybe because making other people richer is so much fun?

qq66 10y ago
No, it's to get more money... A ton of people who don't get overtime still want more hours.
jahewson 10y ago
You've misunderstood - the employees are already paid for overtime hours, but at the normal rate. Now that there will be a higher overtime rate, it can, in some cases make sense for businesses to hire more employees rather than to pay existing employees to work overtime. For employees who choose to work overtime, that's bad news.
edoceo 10y ago
It's because they need the money. If your job options are limited (few readers on HN know what this feels like) then any paid hours are better than none. A 10 hour shift means 10 hours of money. Now it will be 11 hours of money. Except your shift will be cut to 7h.
wtvanhest 10y ago
This may be a definition issue, so I'll give an example to explain it. If someone makes $10/hour and they work 8 hours, they make $80. If they work 10 hours at $10/hour here is the difference between overtime and not overtime: With Overtime - $10/hour X 8 hours + $10/hour X 1.5 (overtime pay) X 2 hours = $110 Without Overtime - $10/hour X 8 hours + $10/hour X1.0 (reg pay) X 2 hours = $100 The worker still gets paid for 10 hours, but because the first worker gets overtime, they make an extra $10. The reason overtime exists is to prevent managers from requiring workers to work 16 hour days etc.
mucker 10y ago
I'm actually appalled that so many people make comments just like you have and show an ignorance of basic economics and would also assume that everyone can _turn down_ work. Were you never a teenager? In fact these laws have made it prohibitive to higher local teen agers. Eventually, the trouble of hiring will overcome the initial capital outlay for robots (which can now even do berry picking). You are going to chase people out of work. Learn about the subjects you are discussing (farming and economics) before coming to wild conclusions.

Shivetya 10y ago

well the only real negative I see is that flexible schedules don't exist. there could be amply opportunity and employment options for 4x10; one group covers part of the week and another gets in 3x10. This would give all sides an advantage. So I don't agree with the eight hour value, I am more in to setting daily limits and overtime past certain periods measurable across a consecutive number of days I remember one IT position where we did 4x10, that was awesome for free time (long weekends) and pushed us around normal commute windows

Jtsummers 10y ago

The cap is improving, though, to now almost $48k/year (below that you're entitled to OT, before it was in the $23k range). This won't change things for most of us with established careers, but will help new hires and people outside the major tech areas that can't get as a high a salary. And another thing to consider: If you're negotiating your salary, you program in your lowest desired hourly rate. If you don't want to make less than $50/hour, and you expect many weeks at 50 hours/week instead of 40, set your pay to be > $2500/week. We're (in tech) often in a greater position to negotiate our salaries and benefits, we should exercise this.