12 ms·

In Brooklyn, Uber is now bigger than taxis

98 points by lil_tee 10y ago

kchoudhu 10y ago
Given the state of taxis in Brooklyn, a two year old with a tricycle is probably bigger than taxis.
- artursapek 10y ago
  I was about to say - I've never successfully caught a taxi in Brooklyn. In fact moving there from Manhattan is what prompted me to download Uber.
- sotojuan 10y ago
  Beat me to it! Never seen a taxi down here in Sunset Park.
  - kchoudhu 10y ago
    Uber is the way to go; failing that the number of a car service somewhere in your neighborhood.
- whatever_dude 10y ago
  This. This chart is not that relevant, even with green cabs. I'd be wary of drawing conclusions from this data in regards to Brooklyn as a whole. A more interesting comparison would be Uber to Gipsy/black cars. Those are going down in droves as the drivers move on to Uber and Lyft. Not a big impact for the drivers themselves, I suppose, but I've seen a lot of those little, "local" black car telephone stations closing down. No point in calling someone and waiting an indeterminate amount of time for a car when you can use an app and see where the guy is. That impact is probably just much harder to measure though since everything, especially the payment, is a lot more informal.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - thrownblown 10y ago
    I left BK in 2009 just before uber. I took black cars everywhere. I had a band and we would book an SUV and get a Lincoln Navigator to drag our thrash metal crusty tour equipment instead of driving our own van to local shows. These small black car businesses were often very personable if you had an account or even used the same number consistently to book drivers. I know Uber hired theses sorts of companies to staff in the first few years. I wonder if they realize that by doing that they put themselves out of business, and how much of that capital has left the local economy.
sharemywin 10y ago
I wouldn't give it long before there is a ridesharing tax
- SEJeff 10y ago
  Already is in Chicago. Gotta pay the taxman!
- bogomipz 10y ago
  Agreed I imagine this will happen sooner than later. Taxis in New York City actually have a "rush hour" surcharge of $4.50 from 4:00PM to 8:00PM on weekdays.You will pay this for taking a taxi to the airport which is not served by any single train line. Just another example of the city sticking it to it's own citizen who already pay decent city tax.
  - vkou 10y ago
    What? Not served by any single train line? I've always taken the train to and from JFK. Also, airport-related taxes are disproportionately paid by visitors, rather than residents.
    - bogomipz 10y ago
      In order to take the train to the airport you need to take the E train to Jamaica station. From there you will need to exit the underground an go upstairs and buy an $8 dollar ticket on AirTran. This is a separate purchase and a separate train line. Your monthly card will not cover this "special train." I wasn't referring to airport-related taxes, I was referring to the taxi surcharge to take a taxi to the airport during rush hours. Of course airport related taxes are disproportionately paid by visitors. Its one of the most visited places in the world. Why is that relevant?
      - vkou 10y ago
        AirTrain is also responsible for getting you around the terminals. You can't expect the subway to have a stop at each terminal. $8 is steep, but it is essentially an airport fee. Who pays airport-related taxes is relevant to this conversation - you were talking about residents getting tax-gouged when they had to go to the airport.
salamisultan 10y ago
How about dollar vans, aka the Neemobiles? My girlfriend Cornbreesha takes those N-vans everywhere she goes.
madgar 10y ago
Are there really only ~2x the green cabs in Brooklyn? They're everywhere in Astoria/LIC in Queens - maybe because of the airports? Edit: also worth noting that green cab drivers often drive for Uber/Lyft as well. It makes a lot more sense for them since they're typically owner-operators.
- potatolicious 10y ago
  Yeah, green cabs are much more common in BK than Queens - higher concentration of nightlife and such. Hit up Williamsburg on a going-out night and see the traffic jams full of green cabs. Concentration of green cabs scales with gentrification - Brooklyn has gentrified to a greater degree than Queens.
- bogomipz 10y ago
  It's because Astoria/LIC has seen a large population density increase. Look at all of the new high rises along the East River and Astoria because its slightly cheaper because it doesn't have the cachet of Brooklyn. It's also worth noting and evident on the map I linked to that when people talk about Brooklyn in many contexts(uber, hipsters, nightlife etc.) they are only ever talking about a small subset of Brooklyn which is strip generally nearer river that extends from Greenpoint to Redhook. They are almost never talking about the majority of Brooklyn - East New York, Dyker Heights, Canarsie , the Flatlands etc. Brooklyn as the city's largest borough is huge. Brooklyn is actually the 4th largest city in the U.S.
kylebgorman 10y ago
So, for context, yellow taxis run "anywhere" but in practice, they are somewhat rare anywhere but lower Manhattan and at the airports. Green taxis, a new category, are only permitted to pick up hails outside of lower Manhattan. They're useful for going between outer boroughs but are reluctant or unwilling to take you to lower Manhattan because they can't pick up a hail there. There is also another, long-standing category known as "car service", where a central dispatcher reached by phone sends you a towncar/minivan/SUV either at a scheduled time (say, for an early flight or your regular work commute), or as soon as possible. Like Uber, they may have an "account" for you so you don't need to provide payment information to the driver, but nowadays many of them have Stripe too. Prices are arguably better for airport rides than cabs. I live in Central Brooklyn and my impression is that there are far more Uber "U"s than any of the other categories, at least in my neighborhood.
- kylebgorman 10y ago
  Oh and of course, "gyspy"/"jitney" cabs/vans, which are quasi-legal $2 bus lines running bus routes in underserved communities.
MattRogish 10y ago
Having lived in NYC pre-and-post Uber, the difference in Manhattan traffic is astonishing. Manhattan 2006: http://www.shutterstock.com/video/clip-2475317-stock-footage-new-york-ny-circa-march-looking-down-a-manhattan-street-it-is-easy-to-see-why-the-yellow.html http://www.shutterstock.com/video/clip-2475317-stock-footage... Manhattan now(ish): http://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.12078243.1469201706!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_1280/image.jpg http://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.12078243.1469201706!/ht... If you were to teleport a Manhattanite from 2006 to 2016 I think they'd be shocked to see the large number of non-yellow cabs on NYC streets. Regardless of how you feel about Uber-the-entity, the mark it's made on NYC streets is undeniable.
- agumonkey 10y ago
  The last picture strikes logo ideas. Good point Sir.
- bogomipz 10y ago
  Surely you are joking? Your evidence in the "difference" is a shutterstock video clip and a jpeg? I don't even understand what you are trying to show. I see plenty of taxis in both. "If you were to teleport a Manhattanite from 2006 to 2016 I think they'd be shocked to see the large number of non-yellow cabs on NYC streets." They would be shocked? Shocked to see the presence of something that didn't even exist a decade earlier? What might "astonish" a Manhattanite is the fact that there are there are so many more taxis on the street now than there were is 2006, and this increase is year over year for the last decade. Example in 2014 there 48,580 taxis in 2015 the last year for which there is data there were 63,261 taxis. It's never been easier to get a cab. source city data: http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/downloads/pdf/hail_market_analysis_2015.pdf http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/downloads/pdf/hail_market_analys...
jasonbarone 10y ago
When I moved to New York a few years ago all it took was a handful of taxi rides to figure out that Uber will eventually put them out of the business. I've had drivers lie about not knowing where to go, intentionally take longer routes, and lie about credit card machines while trying to get rides from New York to Brooklyn, or Brooklyn to Brooklyn. To add insult to injury nearly every single cab is filthy and smells horrible, while costing the same if not more than an Uber ride. There's just no comparison here.
- djtriptych 10y ago
  I can tell you that among Black people in Brooklyn, Uber was a god-send. Cabs would outright lie as mentioned above, refuse to take you to certain boroughs, refuse to pick you up from Manhattan, etc. Agreed that the cab experience is about half as good, but for about the same price. Really a no-brainer. Everyone here uses AND loves Uber. I and a lot of my friends spend at least $100/mo outside of work commute costs. source: I'm a black person in Brooklyn.
  - Nav_Panel 10y ago
    I remember reading this blog piece regarding Ubering while black, and it improved my opinion of the company/"taxi startup" industry: https://medium.com/matter/ubering-while-black-146db581b9db#.4qhpwjocq https://medium.com/matter/ubering-while-black-146db581b9db#....
- rayiner 10y ago
  I take cabs all the time (in Manhattan). I can't remember the last time I've been in one that's "filthy" or where the driver didn't take cards. All are pretty recent model cars with those screens in the back. Maybe its different in the boroughs?
  - garethsprice 10y ago
    Agree on the cleanliness - most cabs are fine. However, try getting a yellow cab from Manhattan to Brooklyn after 9PM, especially in a popular/busy area. Anecdotally I'd estimate there's a 1 in 3 chance of the driver either driving off/refusing the route, having a "broken meter/card machine", but will take (a large amount of) cash or (if you appear to be from out of town) taking a ridiculously long route.
bogomipz 10y ago
Brooklyn has always been underserved by Taxis. Brooklyn has traditionally been the domain of "black cars" which are premium private livery services. So this isn't saying very much. Also he author states: "October 12, 2015 marked the first day that Uber made more pickups in Brooklyn than yellow and green taxis combined." First of yellow cabs don't operate in Brooklyn, the only way to get a yellow cab in Brooklyn is to happen to catch one who just finished dropping someone off on a Manhattan to Brooklyn fare and happens to have his "on duty light on." The will generally on put this light on if they aren't too far into Brooklyn as they don't want to continue further in. Yes there are geen "Boro cabs" that were introduced in 2013 but even these underserve much of the outer boroughs so again this says less about Uber and more about the Boro Taxis failings in Brooklyn. Source: http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/new-yorks-green-cabs-stay-close-to-the-city-center/ http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/new-yorks-green-cabs-stay...
Tan__ 10y ago
As someone who lived in Manhattan and just moved to Brooklyn, I can totally see why Uber is more popular than taxis. For one it usually costs less. And two, depending on where you live there is no guarantee a taxi is around the corner. Uber is more convenient.
- Nav_Panel 10y ago
  > depending on where you live there is no guarantee a taxi is around the corner Exactly. You go to a warehouse party in East Williamsburg and it's 5 AM and feel like going home. The public transit situation in Brooklyn would make that trip take a while (wait 20 minutes for the L, get off, wait 20 minutes for the G, or alternatively wait an hour for the next bus). And what kind of yellow cab is going to hang around an industrial district waiting for a fare? Uber wins every time. It's the density thing. The taxi model works well enough in Manhattan because there are enough people around the hot spots to provide off-the-street fares. A lot of things that work in Manhattan don't always transfer easily to the lower-density reality of the rest of the city/country.
gjolund 10y ago
Is this a surprise? I feel like there has been a post like this on the front page of HN every day for the past couple years.
turingbook 10y ago
In China, Didi (acquired Uber China recently) drivers is more than ten times as the taxis: 14 million vs. 1.35 million. It operates in more than 360 cities.
AncoraImparo 10y ago
Uber are terrible though. Here in Austin we voted and got rid of them. Fasten is cheaper, has better service, and the app is way more complete.
- bananabill 10y ago
  What do you mean by the app being more complete?
- EdHominem 10y ago
  Not even slightly true. If Uber was a worse experience you wouldn't have had to vote to keep them out. Besides, that vote was massively skewed by all the city's propaganda about driver-rape which is less of an issue than choking on party balloons while blowing out birthday candles.
AncoraImparo 10y ago
Uber are terrible though. Here in Austin we voted and got rid of them. Fasten is cheaper, has better service, and the app is way more complete.
wcummings 10y ago
I use Uber when I occasionally take taxis in Boston, but I never used in NYC. It takes longer to hail an Uber and squint at a hunch of license plate numbers in the dark looking for your driver than it does to hail a cab. There's cabs everywhere.
HoyaSaxa 10y ago
Uber really doesn't have that great of a value proposition in NYC IMHO. While Uber provides a huge value add in most markets via markedly lower rates and the convenience of not finding a taxi, this is not the case in NYC. Drivers still need to be licensed by the taxi commission so rides end up being more or less the same cost all in with the 20% tip as a normal yellow cab. More importantly, a cab is often the worst way to get from point a to point b in Manhattan. The subway and/or the bikesharing program, Citi bike, are generally the fastest ways to get around from 8AM to 8PM. Even if a cab/uber is going to be your best option, cabs are generally always available within a minute or two of waiting on any Manhattan corner while Ubers usually take 5-10 minutes to arrive depending on traffic and the time of day. It really boils down to population density. NYC is simply too dense to give Uber a logistical advantage like the majority of its markets.
- falsestprophet 10y ago
  "Uber really doesn't have that great of a value proposition in NYC IMHO." Uber offers $5 shared rides anywhere in Manhattan during communing hours.
  - vkou 10y ago
    Which is called predatory pricing. (Courtesy of your pension fund.) There is no way that Uber is not losing money on $5 rides.
  - potatolicious 10y ago
    Which is only a value proposition if you're an agoraphobe - the trip takes eons compared to the subway. There was some good discussion on the NYC subreddit when Uber rolled this out, and the general consensus was against it (including people who used it). Manhattan traffic during rush hour is awful - a cab is already likely slower than the train, even without the additional pooled passengers. Add the pooled passengers and suddenly your commute becomes a full-hour affair - and some users reported exactly this sort of duration just getting from the UES to Midtown. IMO the (genuine, deserved) popularity of ride-hailing around the US is less a validation of that specific transportation model and more an indictment of our utter failure to produce working mass transit. Where we have effective mass transit (and the MTA isn't even that good) the value proposition of ride hailing starts to fall apart. Ride-hailing is a local maxima, not a global maxima of transportation.
1024core 10y ago
I don't know about Brooklyn, but when I was traveling in India, Uber was a lifesaver. In the past, you had to leave your dwelling to venture out into the streets, looking for the auto-rickshaws ("tuk-tuk"s). Then you had to haggle with them about the price (no one used a meter). Then, only if they felt like it was worth it, they'd agree to take you there. With uber, you tap the app and the ride appears outside your door. No haggling about the fare. Since Uber pays them by the ride (and not the distance), it's in their interest to get you to your destination faster. And my Uber app that I installed in US worked flawlessly. All in all, it made taking taxis a totally different experience.
imagist 10y ago
Brooklynite here. In theory, I want to be behind taxi drivers. They're a local business owners with ties in the community, and I would rather support them than a Silicon Valley startup with a questionable stance on privacy and poor treatment of their workers. In reality though, taxis need to fix a few issues: 1. I don't need to be able to hail a cab anywhere--I can't really hail Ubers, either. But if I call a cab, I'd like to have them show up within, say, 15 minutes. The reality is that the explicit promise given by dispatchers is usually an hour, and after an hour, the taxi often doesn't show up. And if I am in an inconvenient area, the time I most need to call a cab, that increases the chances of lateness or no-shows. This could be fixed by fining taxis for lateness or no-shows. 2. Auto-playing ads in taxis. The last thing I want after a long day is a screen yelling at me about some TV show I would rather have a root canal than watch. Unfortunately, it seems more likely that Uber will add ads than that taxis will get rid of them, and I don't see a way to prevent this. Advertising ruins everything. 3. Taxis that will actually take you somewhere inconvenient without a fight. When I lived in Flatbush, most cab rides started off with me having to threaten to call 311 to get them to take me home. 4. Racism. As a white person in a black neighborhood, I've watched black people try to flag cabs and almost universally the cabs just drive past empty. I've gotten in the habit of flagging cabs for black people, and even after the cab stops, sometimes when they realize that it's a black person getting in the cab instead of me, they drive off.
- CptJamesCook 10y ago
  In theory you want to support a group of people that are blatantly racist, provide terrible service, and are create a noisy, stressful environment? This is actually one of most convincing pro-Uber comments I've ever seen.
  - imagist 10y ago
    Sure, by removing all nuance from what I actually said, you can argue for anything.
    - EdHominem 10y ago
      I think you need to read between the lines of your own post. That's some pretty serious Stockholm Syndrome going on there... Despite horrible service, a forced monopoly, and continual racist crimes, you want to support the incumbent system. You also got the business aspect totally backwards. Very few taxi drivers own their own medallions so the money almost always flows to a rent-seeking corporation anyways, and at least Uber drivers don't have to rent the medallion each day - if they want to leave early they aren't under any penalty. Taxi drivers pay ~$200 a day to rent their medallion - if they don't make more than that, they've worked all day for a loss. If you support taxi companies you're abusing the drivers by perpetuating a broken system.
drzaiusapelord 10y ago
I'd love to see a similiar study for Chicago. The cabs here are, at best, customer hostile and at worst dangerous. My wife is sexually harassed by drivers or is on the receiving end of political talk. Complaint calls go ignored and every cab request is a like playing psycho whack-a-mole. One time I had to walk out of my home with a weapon to make sure my wife was able to get out of her cab safely as the driver kept pressuring her to get out a block away and to be 'helped out.' Oh, the CPD couldn't care less about these kinds of things. Worse, there's a $1 'gas surcharge' for every single ride that was voted in a few years back when gas prices got high. So, a 8 block ride in a Prius means I have to pay an extra $1 in gas? Its incredible how corrupt the entire system is, especially considering how the meters here run on both time and distance and a tip is expected. What should be a $5 ride via a sharing service like uber, turns out to be $10+ with tip and charges. That's on top of inconveniences like loud auto-playing ads in the back of the taxi and constantly being pressured to pay cash or with the driver's swipe account on their personal cell phone (not sure if this is easily read by card reader apps, but shortly after I do this I often have fraud warnings). Thus far our uber rides have been pretty low stress and problem-free. Its mostly younger people from the suburbs looking to make some extra cash. I think driver screening and taking complaints seriously is something uber can do to differentiate itself. I'd say a good 25% of cab drivers in the city have serious mental health issues, if not are wanna-be criminals, and should not be allowed behind the wheel. I think the narrative of safety is often ignored with the cab vs uber debate, but its important to many.
douche 10y ago
As somebody who lives in a suburban/ruralish area where cab service was practically nonexistent (one or two cab companies, with maybe a half-dozen vehicles total, to service an area of 100+ square miles), Uber has been a godsend.
bananabill 10y ago
I'm going to give my two anecdotal experiences that caused me to no longer feel bad about using uber over taxis. When I was in Miami, I decided to use a cab from the airport instead of an uber, because the cab was already there. The seatbelts in the back seat didn't work, which the driver assured me was legal in miami. It is legal, but definitely not preferable. He drove me to my hotel, told me the price was 35 dollars, which seemed a little steep, so I checked the meter and found that he hadn't run it. I guess he drove me to the hotel and thought to himself "That felt like about 35 bucks". When I took an uber from my hotel to the airport a few days later, it was 10 dollars, and the seatbelts worked fine. The second one, just a few weeks ago, is only related to price. Richmond airport taxi ride to short pump, 70 dollars. Uber from short pump back to the airport? 30. I understand that uber is operating at a loss, but that still makes it cheaper for users, so just because it's likely going to cost more in the future, isn't going to stop me from using it now.
- jy1 10y ago
  Just a side note. Was the miami fare a flate rate? Many Airport to City routes are flat rate without meter.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
hackuser 10y ago
Why should I care if Uber succeeds? I care if drivers succeed, whether taxi, Uber, Lyft, bus, or otherwise. How are the drivers doing in NY? (I don't need the Uber PR version.) Uber goes out of its way to say it doesn't care about workers, my community, or our rules. Why should I care about them?

98 points by lil_tee 10y ago

kchoudhu 10y ago

Given the state of taxis in Brooklyn, a two year old with a tricycle is probably bigger than taxis.

artursapek 10y ago
I was about to say - I've never successfully caught a taxi in Brooklyn. In fact moving there from Manhattan is what prompted me to download Uber.
sotojuan 10y ago
Beat me to it! Never seen a taxi down here in Sunset Park.
- kchoudhu 10y ago
  Uber is the way to go; failing that the number of a car service somewhere in your neighborhood.
whatever_dude 10y ago
This. This chart is not that relevant, even with green cabs. I'd be wary of drawing conclusions from this data in regards to Brooklyn as a whole. A more interesting comparison would be Uber to Gipsy/black cars. Those are going down in droves as the drivers move on to Uber and Lyft. Not a big impact for the drivers themselves, I suppose, but I've seen a lot of those little, "local" black car telephone stations closing down. No point in calling someone and waiting an indeterminate amount of time for a car when you can use an app and see where the guy is. That impact is probably just much harder to measure though since everything, especially the payment, is a lot more informal.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- thrownblown 10y ago
  I left BK in 2009 just before uber. I took black cars everywhere. I had a band and we would book an SUV and get a Lincoln Navigator to drag our thrash metal crusty tour equipment instead of driving our own van to local shows. These small black car businesses were often very personable if you had an account or even used the same number consistently to book drivers. I know Uber hired theses sorts of companies to staff in the first few years. I wonder if they realize that by doing that they put themselves out of business, and how much of that capital has left the local economy.

sharemywin 10y ago

I wouldn't give it long before there is a ridesharing tax

SEJeff 10y ago
Already is in Chicago. Gotta pay the taxman!
bogomipz 10y ago
Agreed I imagine this will happen sooner than later. Taxis in New York City actually have a "rush hour" surcharge of $4.50 from 4:00PM to 8:00PM on weekdays.You will pay this for taking a taxi to the airport which is not served by any single train line. Just another example of the city sticking it to it's own citizen who already pay decent city tax.
- vkou 10y ago
  What? Not served by any single train line? I've always taken the train to and from JFK. Also, airport-related taxes are disproportionately paid by visitors, rather than residents.
  - bogomipz 10y ago
    In order to take the train to the airport you need to take the E train to Jamaica station. From there you will need to exit the underground an go upstairs and buy an $8 dollar ticket on AirTran. This is a separate purchase and a separate train line. Your monthly card will not cover this "special train." I wasn't referring to airport-related taxes, I was referring to the taxi surcharge to take a taxi to the airport during rush hours. Of course airport related taxes are disproportionately paid by visitors. Its one of the most visited places in the world. Why is that relevant?
    - vkou 10y ago
      AirTrain is also responsible for getting you around the terminals. You can't expect the subway to have a stop at each terminal. $8 is steep, but it is essentially an airport fee. Who pays airport-related taxes is relevant to this conversation - you were talking about residents getting tax-gouged when they had to go to the airport.

salamisultan 10y ago

How about dollar vans, aka the Neemobiles? My girlfriend Cornbreesha takes those N-vans everywhere she goes.

madgar 10y ago

Are there really only ~2x the green cabs in Brooklyn? They're everywhere in Astoria/LIC in Queens - maybe because of the airports? Edit: also worth noting that green cab drivers often drive for Uber/Lyft as well. It makes a lot more sense for them since they're typically owner-operators.

potatolicious 10y ago
Yeah, green cabs are much more common in BK than Queens - higher concentration of nightlife and such. Hit up Williamsburg on a going-out night and see the traffic jams full of green cabs. Concentration of green cabs scales with gentrification - Brooklyn has gentrified to a greater degree than Queens.
bogomipz 10y ago
It's because Astoria/LIC has seen a large population density increase. Look at all of the new high rises along the East River and Astoria because its slightly cheaper because it doesn't have the cachet of Brooklyn. It's also worth noting and evident on the map I linked to that when people talk about Brooklyn in many contexts(uber, hipsters, nightlife etc.) they are only ever talking about a small subset of Brooklyn which is strip generally nearer river that extends from Greenpoint to Redhook. They are almost never talking about the majority of Brooklyn - East New York, Dyker Heights, Canarsie , the Flatlands etc. Brooklyn as the city's largest borough is huge. Brooklyn is actually the 4th largest city in the U.S.

kylebgorman 10y ago

So, for context, yellow taxis run "anywhere" but in practice, they are somewhat rare anywhere but lower Manhattan and at the airports. Green taxis, a new category, are only permitted to pick up hails outside of lower Manhattan. They're useful for going between outer boroughs but are reluctant or unwilling to take you to lower Manhattan because they can't pick up a hail there. There is also another, long-standing category known as "car service", where a central dispatcher reached by phone sends you a towncar/minivan/SUV either at a scheduled time (say, for an early flight or your regular work commute), or as soon as possible. Like Uber, they may have an "account" for you so you don't need to provide payment information to the driver, but nowadays many of them have Stripe too. Prices are arguably better for airport rides than cabs. I live in Central Brooklyn and my impression is that there are far more Uber "U"s than any of the other categories, at least in my neighborhood.

kylebgorman 10y ago
Oh and of course, "gyspy"/"jitney" cabs/vans, which are quasi-legal $2 bus lines running bus routes in underserved communities.

MattRogish 10y ago

Having lived in NYC pre-and-post Uber, the difference in Manhattan traffic is astonishing. Manhattan 2006: http://www.shutterstock.com/video/clip-2475317-stock-footage-new-york-ny-circa-march-looking-down-a-manhattan-street-it-is-easy-to-see-why-the-yellow.html http://www.shutterstock.com/video/clip-2475317-stock-footage... Manhattan now(ish): http://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.12078243.1469201706!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_1280/image.jpg http://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.12078243.1469201706!/ht... If you were to teleport a Manhattanite from 2006 to 2016 I think they'd be shocked to see the large number of non-yellow cabs on NYC streets. Regardless of how you feel about Uber-the-entity, the mark it's made on NYC streets is undeniable.

agumonkey 10y ago
The last picture strikes logo ideas. Good point Sir.
bogomipz 10y ago
Surely you are joking? Your evidence in the "difference" is a shutterstock video clip and a jpeg? I don't even understand what you are trying to show. I see plenty of taxis in both. "If you were to teleport a Manhattanite from 2006 to 2016 I think they'd be shocked to see the large number of non-yellow cabs on NYC streets." They would be shocked? Shocked to see the presence of something that didn't even exist a decade earlier? What might "astonish" a Manhattanite is the fact that there are there are so many more taxis on the street now than there were is 2006, and this increase is year over year for the last decade. Example in 2014 there 48,580 taxis in 2015 the last year for which there is data there were 63,261 taxis. It's never been easier to get a cab. source city data: http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/downloads/pdf/hail_market_analysis_2015.pdf http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/downloads/pdf/hail_market_analys...

jasonbarone 10y ago

When I moved to New York a few years ago all it took was a handful of taxi rides to figure out that Uber will eventually put them out of the business. I've had drivers lie about not knowing where to go, intentionally take longer routes, and lie about credit card machines while trying to get rides from New York to Brooklyn, or Brooklyn to Brooklyn. To add insult to injury nearly every single cab is filthy and smells horrible, while costing the same if not more than an Uber ride. There's just no comparison here.

djtriptych 10y ago
I can tell you that among Black people in Brooklyn, Uber was a god-send. Cabs would outright lie as mentioned above, refuse to take you to certain boroughs, refuse to pick you up from Manhattan, etc. Agreed that the cab experience is about half as good, but for about the same price. Really a no-brainer. Everyone here uses AND loves Uber. I and a lot of my friends spend at least $100/mo outside of work commute costs. source: I'm a black person in Brooklyn.
- Nav_Panel 10y ago
  I remember reading this blog piece regarding Ubering while black, and it improved my opinion of the company/"taxi startup" industry: https://medium.com/matter/ubering-while-black-146db581b9db#.4qhpwjocq https://medium.com/matter/ubering-while-black-146db581b9db#....
rayiner 10y ago
I take cabs all the time (in Manhattan). I can't remember the last time I've been in one that's "filthy" or where the driver didn't take cards. All are pretty recent model cars with those screens in the back. Maybe its different in the boroughs?
- garethsprice 10y ago
  Agree on the cleanliness - most cabs are fine. However, try getting a yellow cab from Manhattan to Brooklyn after 9PM, especially in a popular/busy area. Anecdotally I'd estimate there's a 1 in 3 chance of the driver either driving off/refusing the route, having a "broken meter/card machine", but will take (a large amount of) cash or (if you appear to be from out of town) taking a ridiculously long route.

bogomipz 10y ago

Brooklyn has always been underserved by Taxis. Brooklyn has traditionally been the domain of "black cars" which are premium private livery services. So this isn't saying very much. Also he author states: "October 12, 2015 marked the first day that Uber made more pickups in Brooklyn than yellow and green taxis combined." First of yellow cabs don't operate in Brooklyn, the only way to get a yellow cab in Brooklyn is to happen to catch one who just finished dropping someone off on a Manhattan to Brooklyn fare and happens to have his "on duty light on." The will generally on put this light on if they aren't too far into Brooklyn as they don't want to continue further in. Yes there are geen "Boro cabs" that were introduced in 2013 but even these underserve much of the outer boroughs so again this says less about Uber and more about the Boro Taxis failings in Brooklyn. Source: http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/new-yorks-green-cabs-stay-close-to-the-city-center/ http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/new-yorks-green-cabs-stay...

Tan__ 10y ago

As someone who lived in Manhattan and just moved to Brooklyn, I can totally see why Uber is more popular than taxis. For one it usually costs less. And two, depending on where you live there is no guarantee a taxi is around the corner. Uber is more convenient.

Nav_Panel 10y ago
> depending on where you live there is no guarantee a taxi is around the corner Exactly. You go to a warehouse party in East Williamsburg and it's 5 AM and feel like going home. The public transit situation in Brooklyn would make that trip take a while (wait 20 minutes for the L, get off, wait 20 minutes for the G, or alternatively wait an hour for the next bus). And what kind of yellow cab is going to hang around an industrial district waiting for a fare? Uber wins every time. It's the density thing. The taxi model works well enough in Manhattan because there are enough people around the hot spots to provide off-the-street fares. A lot of things that work in Manhattan don't always transfer easily to the lower-density reality of the rest of the city/country.

gjolund 10y ago

Is this a surprise? I feel like there has been a post like this on the front page of HN every day for the past couple years.

turingbook 10y ago

In China, Didi (acquired Uber China recently) drivers is more than ten times as the taxis: 14 million vs. 1.35 million. It operates in more than 360 cities.

AncoraImparo 10y ago

Uber are terrible though. Here in Austin we voted and got rid of them. Fasten is cheaper, has better service, and the app is way more complete.

bananabill 10y ago
What do you mean by the app being more complete?
EdHominem 10y ago
Not even slightly true. If Uber was a worse experience you wouldn't have had to vote to keep them out. Besides, that vote was massively skewed by all the city's propaganda about driver-rape which is less of an issue than choking on party balloons while blowing out birthday candles.

AncoraImparo 10y ago

Uber are terrible though. Here in Austin we voted and got rid of them. Fasten is cheaper, has better service, and the app is way more complete.

wcummings 10y ago

I use Uber when I occasionally take taxis in Boston, but I never used in NYC. It takes longer to hail an Uber and squint at a hunch of license plate numbers in the dark looking for your driver than it does to hail a cab. There's cabs everywhere.

HoyaSaxa 10y ago

Uber really doesn't have that great of a value proposition in NYC IMHO. While Uber provides a huge value add in most markets via markedly lower rates and the convenience of not finding a taxi, this is not the case in NYC. Drivers still need to be licensed by the taxi commission so rides end up being more or less the same cost all in with the 20% tip as a normal yellow cab. More importantly, a cab is often the worst way to get from point a to point b in Manhattan. The subway and/or the bikesharing program, Citi bike, are generally the fastest ways to get around from 8AM to 8PM. Even if a cab/uber is going to be your best option, cabs are generally always available within a minute or two of waiting on any Manhattan corner while Ubers usually take 5-10 minutes to arrive depending on traffic and the time of day. It really boils down to population density. NYC is simply too dense to give Uber a logistical advantage like the majority of its markets.

falsestprophet 10y ago
"Uber really doesn't have that great of a value proposition in NYC IMHO." Uber offers $5 shared rides anywhere in Manhattan during communing hours.
- vkou 10y ago
  Which is called predatory pricing. (Courtesy of your pension fund.) There is no way that Uber is not losing money on $5 rides.
- potatolicious 10y ago
  Which is only a value proposition if you're an agoraphobe - the trip takes eons compared to the subway. There was some good discussion on the NYC subreddit when Uber rolled this out, and the general consensus was against it (including people who used it). Manhattan traffic during rush hour is awful - a cab is already likely slower than the train, even without the additional pooled passengers. Add the pooled passengers and suddenly your commute becomes a full-hour affair - and some users reported exactly this sort of duration just getting from the UES to Midtown. IMO the (genuine, deserved) popularity of ride-hailing around the US is less a validation of that specific transportation model and more an indictment of our utter failure to produce working mass transit. Where we have effective mass transit (and the MTA isn't even that good) the value proposition of ride hailing starts to fall apart. Ride-hailing is a local maxima, not a global maxima of transportation.

1024core 10y ago

I don't know about Brooklyn, but when I was traveling in India, Uber was a lifesaver. In the past, you had to leave your dwelling to venture out into the streets, looking for the auto-rickshaws ("tuk-tuk"s). Then you had to haggle with them about the price (no one used a meter). Then, only if they felt like it was worth it, they'd agree to take you there. With uber, you tap the app and the ride appears outside your door. No haggling about the fare. Since Uber pays them by the ride (and not the distance), it's in their interest to get you to your destination faster. And my Uber app that I installed in US worked flawlessly. All in all, it made taking taxis a totally different experience.

imagist 10y ago

Brooklynite here. In theory, I want to be behind taxi drivers. They're a local business owners with ties in the community, and I would rather support them than a Silicon Valley startup with a questionable stance on privacy and poor treatment of their workers. In reality though, taxis need to fix a few issues: 1. I don't need to be able to hail a cab anywhere--I can't really hail Ubers, either. But if I call a cab, I'd like to have them show up within, say, 15 minutes. The reality is that the explicit promise given by dispatchers is usually an hour, and after an hour, the taxi often doesn't show up. And if I am in an inconvenient area, the time I most need to call a cab, that increases the chances of lateness or no-shows. This could be fixed by fining taxis for lateness or no-shows. 2. Auto-playing ads in taxis. The last thing I want after a long day is a screen yelling at me about some TV show I would rather have a root canal than watch. Unfortunately, it seems more likely that Uber will add ads than that taxis will get rid of them, and I don't see a way to prevent this. Advertising ruins everything. 3. Taxis that will actually take you somewhere inconvenient without a fight. When I lived in Flatbush, most cab rides started off with me having to threaten to call 311 to get them to take me home. 4. Racism. As a white person in a black neighborhood, I've watched black people try to flag cabs and almost universally the cabs just drive past empty. I've gotten in the habit of flagging cabs for black people, and even after the cab stops, sometimes when they realize that it's a black person getting in the cab instead of me, they drive off.

CptJamesCook 10y ago
In theory you want to support a group of people that are blatantly racist, provide terrible service, and are create a noisy, stressful environment? This is actually one of most convincing pro-Uber comments I've ever seen.
- imagist 10y ago
  Sure, by removing all nuance from what I actually said, you can argue for anything.
  - EdHominem 10y ago
    I think you need to read between the lines of your own post. That's some pretty serious Stockholm Syndrome going on there... Despite horrible service, a forced monopoly, and continual racist crimes, you want to support the incumbent system. You also got the business aspect totally backwards. Very few taxi drivers own their own medallions so the money almost always flows to a rent-seeking corporation anyways, and at least Uber drivers don't have to rent the medallion each day - if they want to leave early they aren't under any penalty. Taxi drivers pay ~$200 a day to rent their medallion - if they don't make more than that, they've worked all day for a loss. If you support taxi companies you're abusing the drivers by perpetuating a broken system.

drzaiusapelord 10y ago

I'd love to see a similiar study for Chicago. The cabs here are, at best, customer hostile and at worst dangerous. My wife is sexually harassed by drivers or is on the receiving end of political talk. Complaint calls go ignored and every cab request is a like playing psycho whack-a-mole. One time I had to walk out of my home with a weapon to make sure my wife was able to get out of her cab safely as the driver kept pressuring her to get out a block away and to be 'helped out.' Oh, the CPD couldn't care less about these kinds of things. Worse, there's a $1 'gas surcharge' for every single ride that was voted in a few years back when gas prices got high. So, a 8 block ride in a Prius means I have to pay an extra $1 in gas? Its incredible how corrupt the entire system is, especially considering how the meters here run on both time and distance and a tip is expected. What should be a $5 ride via a sharing service like uber, turns out to be $10+ with tip and charges. That's on top of inconveniences like loud auto-playing ads in the back of the taxi and constantly being pressured to pay cash or with the driver's swipe account on their personal cell phone (not sure if this is easily read by card reader apps, but shortly after I do this I often have fraud warnings). Thus far our uber rides have been pretty low stress and problem-free. Its mostly younger people from the suburbs looking to make some extra cash. I think driver screening and taking complaints seriously is something uber can do to differentiate itself. I'd say a good 25% of cab drivers in the city have serious mental health issues, if not are wanna-be criminals, and should not be allowed behind the wheel. I think the narrative of safety is often ignored with the cab vs uber debate, but its important to many.

douche 10y ago

As somebody who lives in a suburban/ruralish area where cab service was practically nonexistent (one or two cab companies, with maybe a half-dozen vehicles total, to service an area of 100+ square miles), Uber has been a godsend.

bananabill 10y ago

I'm going to give my two anecdotal experiences that caused me to no longer feel bad about using uber over taxis. When I was in Miami, I decided to use a cab from the airport instead of an uber, because the cab was already there. The seatbelts in the back seat didn't work, which the driver assured me was legal in miami. It is legal, but definitely not preferable. He drove me to my hotel, told me the price was 35 dollars, which seemed a little steep, so I checked the meter and found that he hadn't run it. I guess he drove me to the hotel and thought to himself "That felt like about 35 bucks". When I took an uber from my hotel to the airport a few days later, it was 10 dollars, and the seatbelts worked fine. The second one, just a few weeks ago, is only related to price. Richmond airport taxi ride to short pump, 70 dollars. Uber from short pump back to the airport? 30. I understand that uber is operating at a loss, but that still makes it cheaper for users, so just because it's likely going to cost more in the future, isn't going to stop me from using it now.

jy1 10y ago
Just a side note. Was the miami fare a flate rate? Many Airport to City routes are flat rate without meter.
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hackuser 10y ago

Why should I care if Uber succeeds? I care if drivers succeed, whether taxi, Uber, Lyft, bus, or otherwise. How are the drivers doing in NY? (I don't need the Uber PR version.) Uber goes out of its way to say it doesn't care about workers, my community, or our rules. Why should I care about them?